wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:57 pm

A friend of mine has a bunch of family members who are masons. I always thought they were just a bunch of guys hanging out, but looking on the net, it seems like there's a lot of "skull and bones" stuff going on.

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/tracingboard.html

http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/masons.htm

Now it looks like it might be kinda' scary stuff, even if 1/10th of this is true.

Anyone have any insight?
We can agree to disagree.
 
prosa
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:00 pm

Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the Masons are just a bunch of mainly older men who like to get together and socialize. All of the "secret rites" are just for fun.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
wukka
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 1):
Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the Masons are just a bunch of mainly older men who like to get together and socialize. All of the "secret rites" are just for fun.

That's what I always thought, too. I've just always been interested in it, since most of these guys seem to be respectable members of society. Some of this stuff makes them out to be closet satanists and whatnot, though. I always thought it was something like the Elk's Club or "Fred Flinstone and the Grand Poobah" stuff? Does anyone know anything firsthand?
We can agree to disagree.
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:28 pm

It depends. In America, masons are very open. They have their mason temples and, like PROSA says, they socialize, do charity and so on. They are more open about their ceremonies and almost no member hides his membership to the masonry. I've even attended a couple of funerals under masonic rite.

In other parts of the world, like Mexico, is quite different. They are indeed a secret society whose members are sworn to complete loyalty to the "logia". They are very powerful and many of its members are part of the political and economical elite. When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean. Just check the history of countries in Latin American, France and Italy for instance.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
MD-90
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean. Just check the history of countries in Latin American, France and Italy for instance.

And that is what makes me adamantly oppose Freemasonry.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
It depends. In America, masons are very open. They have their mason temples and, like PROSA says, they socialize, do charity and so on.

Freemasons are very open here in Australia also. They have a huge building, right in the city centre, here in Adelaide. Their website says:

"Freemasonry is one of the world's oldest fraternal societies.
It is made up of men who are concerned with moral and spiritual values and who pursue a way of life that complements their religious, family and community affiliations. They seek a better way of life and treat all men as equal regardless of race, religion or social standing."

http://www.freemasonrysaust.org.au/freemason.html

I guess they are just a bunch of old people trying to do good. But who the hell knows what their real agenda is.....
אני תומך בישראל
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:11 pm

Thanks for the replies so far!

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean.

So is it just Catholocism, or is it religion in general? From what I understand, at least here in the US, the knights of Columbus are pretty much a Catholic offshoot of the masons. I wouldn't think that the Catholics are trying to undermine their own?
We can agree to disagree.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 2):
Does anyone know anything firsthand?

Well, I'm a Mason, but I can't tell you anything, buhahahaha  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:20 pm

Twenty years ago I worked for a cleaning company while attending university. We were hired to clean a Mason meeting hall. I paged through some of the books, read the stuff on the walls, and found their stash of implements. I remember seeing candles, swords, and vestments. The language in the books was nothing I'd every seen before.

Seeing the Simpson's Stonecutters episode (starring Patrick Stewart) reminded me of that place. It was called "Homer the Great."

"Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the Metric System down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!"
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
wukka
Posts: 884
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Well, I'm a Mason, but I can't tell you anything, buhahahaha

You are? Why can't you say anything? Is it really that secret? I've heard about the asking to be one, but I'm curious if that really works. I'm sure that if that's true that my friend's family members would take me on, but I haven't asked. Like I said, I just started getting interested in this stuff. I just can't figure out if it's really a brotherhood of guys hanging out, or if it's some super-secret cult.
We can agree to disagree.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:28 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 9):
Is it really that secret?

The initiation ceremony isn't supposed to be talked about at all, but other than that, I think there's a lot of material out there you can read up on it. And yes, you can ask to become a Mason, you just need one to sponsor you, then they do their interviews, initiation, and voila, you're 1st degree.
International Homo of Mystery
 
wukka
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 8):
The language in the books was nothing I'd every seen before.

Was it Latin / Cyrillic, or something like a made-up klingon? I guess I'm asking whether or not you had seen the "letters" before, or if they were completely foreign to you.

Quote:
Seeing the Simpson's Stonecutters episode (starring Patrick Stewart) reminded me of that place. It was called "Homer the Great."

I loved that episode; especially the lyrics that you quoted!
We can agree to disagree.
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 9):
? I've heard about the asking to be one, but I'm curious if that really works. I'm sure that if that's true that my friend's family members would take me on, but I haven't asked.

You may not care, but just to let you know that if you are Catholic or belong to a traditional, conservative Christian denomination you can't become mason. Or rather better, you shouldn't. It's one of the worst sins/offense you can commit. In the Catholic tradition, it would mean ipso facto excommunication.

Why? Centuries of anti-Christian freemasonry. Just to let you know this fact.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 12):
You may not care, but just to let you know that if you are Catholic or belong to a traditional, conservative Christian denomination you can't become mason.

Maybe the Founding Fathers of the U.S. either didn't know or didn't care about this rule. I've certainly never heard of it, or even had it suggested, but then I'm from the Scottish Rite side of things.

(Oh, and Wukka, if you become a Shriner, you can wear one of those cool fez's!)
International Homo of Mystery
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Maybe the Founding Fathers of the U.S. either didn't know or didn't care about this rule.

Rather the second, I guess. The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians. Besides, as I posted before, American masonry is somehow different to masonry in other parts of the world.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:51 pm

"(Oh, and Wukka, if you become a Shriner, you can wear one of those cool fez's!)"

And drink a lot... Behind both my parents there was a long line of freemasons and Shriners... Both organizations appear to be massive drinking co-ops. The Shriners moreso. (Do you think anyone would drive those little cars sober?)

I think the Shriners are the only people keeping Miller High-life alive.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 14):
Rather the second, I guess. The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians.

That brings up another interesting point... not to sidetrack my own thread, but I've often wondered why a Deist is considered "less than religious" because, as you said, they're, "not exactly Christians"? If one believes in God, and the trinity is true, then by default, a Deist is also a Christian, no?

Sorry for sidetracking, but theology also interests me!  Smile
We can agree to disagree.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:03 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 14):
The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians.

Most were also Episcopalian, which was even the state religion of some of the original states. However, Washington had a Freemason funeral. The funerals the Freemasons and Eastern Star chapters perform are the most dignified I've ever attended.
International Homo of Mystery
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
And yes, you can ask to become a Mason, you just need one to sponsor you, then they do their interviews, initiation, and voila, you're 1st degree.

How does this sponsorship and interview thing work? What does the interview consist of?
We can agree to disagree.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 18):
What does the interview consist of?

I can't tell you, and they won't tell you when it will happen. You will have a visitation. Big grin

Quoting Wukka (Reply 16):
by default, a Deist is also a Christian, no?

This essay, "Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion", by Thomas Paine, may interest you.

http://www.deism.com/paine_essay01.htm
Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.
International Homo of Mystery
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:39 pm

Not a cult as such, I don't think they actually "worship" anything. It's an interesting group though, if you believe all the stories about Templars etc. I'm not sure I believe them, but it's a fun theory.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:44 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
I can't tell you, and they won't tell you when it will happen. You will have a visitation.

Sounds kind of trippy. What kinda' stuff are would they "interview" me about?

Quote:
Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.

That's what I thought. I was under the impression that a Deist was a larger umbrella that covered Christianity and Catholocism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.
We can agree to disagree.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 21):
What kinda' stuff are would they "interview" me about?

It's just a general "get to know you on your turf" kind of interview that could happen at your home or place of business. They'll tell you which ahead of time, but not by whom or when.
International Homo of Mystery
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
I'm not sure I believe them, but it's a fun theory.

That's what I thought, too! When I was looking up the "fun theory" stuff, I ended up at the websites listed in my original link. I find it hard to believe a site that has "part of the conspiracy ring" sitting at the bottom of their page.

Personal opinion so far? Sounds like an interesting bunch, but I'm finding it hard to believe that they're the new world order as claimed.
We can agree to disagree.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:06 pm

Laughing at what you all think you know (but in reality have absolutely no idea) about the masons is, well, splitting open my spleen.

When I was 13, I was a Demolay, which as some of you may or may not know is basically the teenage masons. Yes, there were secret rituals, but really the only thing they didn't want getting out is the floor patterns and steps of the rituals. Like Mason's, you can ask to be a Demolay, but you have to have a "sponsor" to let you in. Even then, the Demolay's in my state were so starved of members that they sent out letters basically by looking into middle school yearbooks. There would be a guy from the middle school who was already enrolled in Demolay and he'd send out invitations to every guy in the directory, saying "come to our party where you'll learn about us" so I did, I found it actually pretty interesting so I joined. Actually my experiences in Demolay were overall positive, however there was alot of negative to it (but it had nothing to do with the organization, just a select few people from my specific chapter who decided to be douchebags). We had a Conclave every year and heres where it gets really good: Conclaves were Coed, so for 4 days straight it was 13-16 year old guys running around a hotel with 13-16 year old girls from the Rainbow Girls and Jobs Daughters Big grin It was very social, we were doing something almost every weekend, be it paintball, lazertag, just getting together and playing football, all kinds of stuff. Also every year the Monte Vista chapter held a "Bash on the dunes" where we'd basically go hang out at the Great Sand Dunes for a weekend. They did have ritual competitions, which were held at Conclave as well as a few other events such as an early spring competition (the name escapes me), It was held in Dallas the year I went and I won 2nd place national in my field.

I am glad I parted ways with Demolay, firstly I was juggling between school, marching band, and freshman football so something had to go, plus I was having disagreements with other members, though I did make it all the way to Junior Counselor of my chapter, I went to one meeting of that then never came back. I had given all I could and felt like I couldn't get anything more out.

Had I stayed with Demolay, I'd probably be a higherup in the State chapter by now. At 21, I would recieve my majority and at that time become a mason. But I didn't.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:14 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 24):
But I didn't.

Well poo, no fez for you then!  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
avek00
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:56 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
I don't think they actually "worship" anything.

To the contrary, Masons are expected to be devout believers in their personal religions of choice - an Episcopalian is expected to be a devout Episcopalian, a Methodist a devout Methodist, etc.
Live life to the fullest.
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:50 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 21):
Quote:
Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.

That's what I thought. I was under the impression that a Deist was a larger umbrella that covered Christianity and Catholocism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.

The difference between a Deist and a Christian, Moslem, Buddhist, etcetera, is that a Deist believes in God but without all the Theological doctrine that most religions have. Therefore the term Deist. They have their belief in God and that's it.

However, most American masons belong to a Christian denomination and consequently they are not Deists. I attended a mason funeral where the one leading the ritual was also a Methodist pastor. As they say, only in America...
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 26):
To the contrary, Masons are expected to be devout believers in their personal religions of choice - an Episcopalian is expected to be a devout Episcopalian, a Methodist a devout Methodist, etc.

You misunderstand me. Masons qua masons don't worship anything. They may worship as they like outside (although I thought that Masons normally have no patience with organised religion), but Freemasonry isn't a "cult" because there is no worship in and of Freemasonry.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
EGGD
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:18 pm

At work we've had numerous gatherings of various British lodges for dinners/meetings/womens nights etc. I can't say I agree with Masonry, to me it's a very pretentious fraternity. I think most of the critisism of the Masons come from the fact that it is an esoteric art, people who aren't Masons don't like them having secrets. Especially with an organization that is so large, being esoteric is a very big thing. This leads to distrust and discontent and I don't believe thats a good thing.
 
AeroWesty
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:11 am

I can only wonder how many of the people who speak seemingly so expertly on Freemasonry have actually gone through the initiation and become a member. Out of 30 replies, I'm the only one so far, it seems.
International Homo of Mystery
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:27 am

The Freemasons in DC are hugely powerful. Big buildings both in the city, and in Alexandria.

Many of our founding fathers were Freemasons.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):
I'm the only one so far, it seems.

I didn't know they took the gays.  Smile

N
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 31):
I didn't know they took the gays.

They never asked.  Smile
International Homo of Mystery
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 31):
I didn't know they took the gays.

They never asked. Smile

For some reason, that little exchange read way too funny.  Smile

Also, Westy, I kind of agree with you... for as large as freemasonry seems to be, you'd think that there'd be more than just one or two Masons in the thread?
We can agree to disagree.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:36 am

That probably should tell you about how important the typical A.net member is, or lack of importance.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:50 am

If I wanted to join the Masons, I wouldn't have too much trouble getting in since my grandfather has been one for over 50 years. Honestly, it's not my sort of thing, but who knows, maybe eventually I may want to get involved.
 
B744F
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 34):
That probably should tell you about how important the typical A.net member is, or lack of importance.

"important" is a very subjective word. Whats important about some families (usually wealthy) getting to gether? its just a big country club, nothing special going on. But since the people there are "important" as you say, MD-90, they are people of power and all their goals are to keep their wealth expanding at the expense of everyone else. So such summits as the G8, WTO meetings, etc. are full of the wealthy and well connected looking to further their fortunes in their neverending childish games of "I'm better than everyone."
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:43 am

Actually MD-90 it should tell you more about the declining popularity of the Masons.

I don't know of anyone who wants to be one. I think it was also mentioned in this thread they will take just about anyone who shows up.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
avek00
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 28):
Masons qua masons don't worship anything.

I didn't misunderstand you - there is no official Mason religion, but Masons who do belong to a religious faith of some kind ARE supposed to be devout followers of the applicable religious text.
Live life to the fullest.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:37 am

Well, all the lodges i've met carried a larger contingency of older men. There were only a few who i'd say were under 40. Guess that shows you what sort of establishment it is.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 36):
they are people of power and all their goals are to keep their wealth expanding at the expense of everyone else. So such summits as the G8, WTO meetings, etc. are full of the wealthy and well connected looking to further their fortunes in their neverending childish games of "I'm better than everyone."

I don't think they're important. I'm unimpressed by how much money one has control of. That's not what makes a man virtuous.
 
slider
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RE: Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting EGGD (Reply 39):
Well, all the lodges i've met carried a larger contingency of older men. There were only a few who i'd say were under 40. Guess that shows you what sort of establishment it is.

Sadly, much like Kiwanis, Lions and Rotary, the majority of civic service organizations are aging. There is a major shift in societal terms from the traditional service groups like this.

I'm the youngest guy in my Kiwanis club by far. Recruitment is tough. But I don't know about the Masons; there's always been a veil of some secrecy or intrigue around them, and the conspiracy theorists (ie: "National Treasure") feeds it.

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