UTA_flyinghigh
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2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:26 pm

So here's where the FIA wants F1 to go :

ENGINES

All components of the engine will be controlled by an Electronic Control Unit (ECU) which has been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to an agreed specification
The ECU may only be used with FIA approved software and may only be connected to the control system wiring loom, sensors and actuators as specified by the FIA
All control sensors, actuators and FIA monitoring sensors will be specified and homologated by the FIA
The control system wiring loom connectivity will be specified by the FIA
A 3 litre V10 engine will remain an option for teams unable to obtain a 2.4 litre V8, but subject to similar strict performance limitations as in 2006 and 2007

GEARBOXES

All cars will be fitted with gear ratios, final drive ratios and differentials which have been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to an agreed specification
Gear changing will only be permitted by the use of a manually operated mechanical linkage to the gearbox
Clutches will only be operated via a foot pedal connected mechanically to a release mechanism

BODYWORK

Downforce will be reduced to approximately 10% of current levels
Drag will be maintained at current levels
Overall car width will be increased
By stipulating maximum and minimum dimensions cars will be “cleaned up” with devices such as barge boards, flip ups, winglets and other small add on parts removed
Total advertising area on the car to remain unchanged

WHEELS AND TYRES

Tyres will be supplied by one manufacturer appointed by the FIA after an invitation to tender. Such an appointment will be conditional upon :
a suitable supplier being available ;
a suitable system to ensure tyre testing is carried out in an equitable manner ;
no team being disadvantaged by the appointment of a single supplier (detailed regulations will be written to ensure this would not be the case) ;
there being no legal impediments during the process of appointing a supplier
Slick tyres will be introduced for use in dry weather
Lower profile tyres will be introduced
Significantly larger wheels with minimum and maximum sizes stipulated for front and rear will be permitted
Tyre blankets and other heating devices will be prohibited
All tyre regulations will reside in the Technical Regulations

CHASSIS

The minimum height of the centre of gravity of the chassis will be specified
The minimum weight for a chassis will be specified
Energy of all impact tests will be increased
Loads for all static tests will be increased
Side intrusion test requirements will be increased
Ballast will be reduced to minimal levels

DATA ACQUISITION AND TELEMETRY

With specific exceptions, any data acquisition system, telemetry system or associated sensors additional to those associated with the ECU will be physically separate and completely isolated from the control electronics
Pit to car telemetry will be prohibited

SPARE CARS

Spare cars will be prohibited, i.e. no team may have more than two built-up cars available at an Event at any one time. Spare chassis will be permitted but precisely what constitutes a car in this context will be clearly defined.


Rhaa !
3 pedals in what is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport...even a lowly Citroen C2 has an SMG lol
Single ECU, single tyre manufacturer, single gearbox...yayers, let's all race like Club Formula series !

F... you FIA, hope the Grand Prix Racing (ex-GPWC) proposal goes through and buries these foolish proposals.

UTA   

[Edited 2005-06-17 08:26:37]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:52 pm

Sounds like F1 is going the way of NASCAR.

Too many blasted rules . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
EZEIZA
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:59 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Too many blasted rules . . .

Exactly, but .. why? What is FIA looking for? Do you think the teams will agree?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:48 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 2):
Do you think the teams will agree?

Hopefully they will at least come to terms. Wouldn't want to see them to wind up like IRL and CART . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Biggles
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:11 pm

I hope the FIA stops this nonsense. F1 has always been on the leading edge of automotive technology .But if the FIA continues to add more and more restrictions, there would be less incentive for the teams to develop new technology.
F1 would become another lame series like the IRL.
 
cornish
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:14 pm

Can't see thre manufacturers going for it - hardly the technological showcase they want - maybe this will push the idea of a breakaway series further....

Also no spare cars. Hmm - rain in qualifying a load of drivers spin off and wreck their cars. spare chassis, but not built up in time or problems with major components, i.e. engine, gearbox - hey presto diminished grid....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
atco2b
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:22 pm

Jesus, why cant it just be freestyle?! Would make it a bit more interesting...
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
DABZF
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:30 pm

If they are even going to get half of that trough there goes my last little intrest I still have for F1!
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
Aleksandar
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:56 pm

Oh dear! It was (and still is) hard for me go get used to current rules.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 2):
What is FIA looking for? Do you think the teams will agree?

Well, it seems that they want to reduce the gap between teams. Smaller ones will like it, I guess.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 5):
Hmm - rain in qualifying a load of drivers spin off and wreck their cars

And Minardi finally gets it one-two finish in the race. It sounds like a bad comedy.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:59 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 8):
And Minardi finally gets it one-two finish in the race.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

UTA  checkeredflag 
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BNE
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:04 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 8):
And Minardi finally gets it one-two finish in the race. It sounds like a bad comedy.

Never, not now that Webber isn't one of their drivers.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
cfalk
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:28 pm

I think they should simply eliminate all wings and ground effects, and allow anything else. Without the ground effects, speeds will come down and the race will become much more interesting, especially in the rain.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:33 pm

FIA managed to take Ferrari out of front in all ways necessarys.
Dam, they are really trying to give the others a chance.
F-1 is boring for some years now...they should re-think the hole thing, not just that.

IMHO
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cfalk
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:40 pm

There used to be a lot of innovation in F1. Remember the 6-wheeled Tyrells? The first Turbos? The first time active suspensions were tried? There are so many rules now that innovation is being squashed.

The whole point of F1 was to get around the track as fast as you can, no holds barred. If you could not deal with the cost and dangers involved in F1, you went to the lesser formulas like F3 or Formula Ford.

With all these rules, there is no longer any forum for all-out racing anymore.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:47 pm

Safety, reasonable costs to compete, real 'racing', driver involvement and pushing tech limits are all parts of the mix in regulating auto racing, no matter the level from the lowest dirt track class to F1. What is being proposed by F1 for future years is a farce that may ruin F1 racing for the fans.
As to F1, the best place to 1st set regulations would be to limit the team budgets (per # cars) and ban all advertising by tobacco products companies. All budgets would be subject to strict auditing standards so that smaller teams could be competive.
As to technical, perhaps the best idea would be to require the use of EC legal street production car based engines up to a certain size and mimimum of 500 block/year production and use computers from production models with limited modifications allowed. Perhaps a very small max size of let's say 1.5 Liters would force excess speeds down and encourage innovations. That is also a popular production engine size for production cars (outside of the USA). Second would be to raise the mimimum weight of the cars by maybe 300 or more pounds, along with mimimum cockpit dimensions to give more crush room to protect drivers.
I wouldn't micromanage how many cylinders, or transmission specifications, materials used in an engine block, and so on are used. I don't want (as with NASCAR in the USA) of so many specifications and distance from real production cars. I don't like the idea of an 'F1' brand of car, with no real difference between brands, as that stiffles innovation, fan loyality and interest. Racing should 'improve the breed' of production cars, encouage innovation and demand drivers as a major component of the competition. I would keep the idea of multiple tire suppliers as present, with the 'grooves' kept as the competition by the different brands is important to their marketing and encourages improvements in the quality of their respective products on or off the track.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:51 pm

How much do the FAI and especially the F1 organisers receive from the now monopolistic suppliers of equipment?

Jan
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VC-10
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:52 pm

About time. Make F1 interesting again.

People, it's is supposed to be a World DRIVERS Championship. I want to see the drivers demonstrate their skills, not leave it to a computer to control there acceleration etc. Drivers missing gearchanges in the heat of battle will liven things up.

Take it from someone who has been following F1 since 1969 todays version is rubbish

Quoting Atco2b (Reply 6):
why cant it just be freestyle?! Would make it a bit more interesting...

The last couple of years were interesting?

[Edited 2005-06-17 14:01:41]
 
CPH-R
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:54 pm

Hell, why not do what the Le Mans people did to the Audi's this year: "Sorry guys, you've been too succesful for the past couple of years, so we're going to limit the amount of BHP your engines have & add some ballast to your cars. Good luck!".
 
teva
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:26 pm

But you all missed the most important for F1 today...

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Total advertising area on the car to remain unchanged

Teva  old 
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Aleksandar
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:35 pm

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 16):
The last couple of years were interesting?

They were not, but this one is not much of an improvement either. Schumacher dominates is replaced with Alonso domination. Once again, only two teams are rally on top, while others are waiting for their mistake.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 16):
Drivers missing gearchanges in the heat of battle will liven things up.

Do you remember when the amount of fuel was limited? It was also fun.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 19):
Schumacher dominates is replaced with Alonso domination.

As much as I'd like that to be true, we have not seen that domination in the last two GP.

UTA  checkeredflag 
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VC-10
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:53 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 19):
They were not, but this one is not much of an improvement either. Schumacher dominates is replaced with Alonso domination.

I don't call 2nd @ Monaco, lucking into a win in Germany and retiring in Canada plus not being on pole since before Spain as dominating.

I do remember the limited fuel years, but it could spoil the end of a good race if a driver had to back off to save fuel.

I want to see races with no fuel or tyre stops, that way the best drivers will come through.
 
gkirk
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:03 pm

Everyone knows Davie Coulthard is the best driver anyway (and also lives 30-40 miles from me)  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
SlamClick
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:06 pm

I have a great idea. Let's travel all over the globe, spend a fortune on hotels and meals, and hundreds of €€€ for a ticket to watch a bunch of bureaucrats sit around making up rules. Exciting stuff!

Or we could just go back to racing.

What is F1 becoming? T-ball? Special olympics? Everyone gets a trophy because you are all winners!

Anyone remember Carel deBeaufort? Qualified a second or two behind the factory Lotus, BRM, Ferrari in his privately owned year-old car. Stirling Moss? Preferred to drive only last year's British cars. Would I love to watch some of those races now!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
cornish
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 21):
I don't call 2nd @ Monaco, lucking into a win in Germany and retiring in Canada plus not being on pole since before Spain as dominating.

In fact only 4th at Monaco - behind Heidfeld and Webber.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 21):
I do remember the limited fuel years, but it could spoil the end of a good race if a driver had to back off to save fuel.

There was that race at San Marino back in 1985 where everyone seemingly ran out of fuel while leading - Senna, Johansson in a Ferrari, De Angelis. I think Prost won and even he coasted over the line.

[Edited 2005-06-17 16:21:08]
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cornish
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 22):
Everyone knows Davie Coulthard is the best driver anyway (and also lives 30-40 miles from me)

you live 40 miles from Monte Carlo ??  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
gkirk
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:32 pm

Cornish, so I live 40 miles from where he grew up then  Wink His dad has a wagon company (Hayton Coulthard) and there is a museum for Davie at Twynholm
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
cornish
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 26):
and there is a museum for Davie at Twynholm

Crikey - he has a museum already ? He's not that old !

Twynholm's in Dumfriesshire right? I remember that his dad's business was trucking though.

Sounds like he could be in a BAR next season.....
(David that is, not his Dad  Wink )
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
TSV
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:18 am

And if they introduce the rule where fifth place actually wins the race and takes maximum points then Australia will have another World Champion!
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
TedTAce
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:48 am

And such is the state of racing.

I'd love to make a racing series where the drivers know it's likely they will die, and one of the FEW rules would be 'if you make a mistake that costs someonelse their life' you are executed @ next dawn the next day..

Something about law, liability, and people calling me an ass keep getting in the way though  Sad
This space intentionally left blank
 
nosedive
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:04 am

While a few of the rules I agree with, no tire warmers, slicks, wider cars etc aren't too bad, I have to wonder how much this will backfire on the FIA. Yes, it should be a drivers championship, but the well to do teams will still dominate (maybe just not winning 15 of 16). Personally, I think if they just did away with team orders, really did away with them, the series would be better off and all this bullshit regulation of clutches and gear ratios could be avoided. Also, as noted by Ralf's brilliant attempt to be a ballerina, the sport does need to slow the cars down a bit before someone gets killed.
 
bill142
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:50 pm

Time for Max Mosley to leave. He should have left the first time, but he was being a typical british drama queen and probably never had any intention of leaving. If it was his plan to make all the F1 teams surcombe to his empty threats then his plan failed. The GPWC will go down the path they see fit and will leave it to Ferrari and Red Bull Racing, who are the only teams to sign onto a post 2008 Concorde agreement.

Controling aspects such as tyres and electronics and leaving them to a single manufactuer makes F1 look like something such as A1GP or CART. To be the pinnacle, which F1 is always touted a being, then teams should be allowed to choose who they want as a tyre manufacter, use their electronics as best they can. I'm not saying don't give them rules but, by controlling so many aspects it removes the level of competition which is what I watch F1 for.

Max Mosely has no idea, never has, never will.
 
slider
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
What is being proposed by F1 for future years is a farce that may ruin F1 racing for the fans.

Or it may save the sport from becoming a league of racing irrelevancy dominated by one, perhaps two, manufacturers and what has become totally undramatic. Go look at the past decade of Constructor's titles as evidence.

I'm no fan of homogenizing everything ala NASCAR, but clearly there has to be some leveling of the playing field so that the DRIVERS can decide who wins and loses and not simply the manufacturers. Schumacher's dominance has been largely a fait accompli, let's face it. I don't begrudge him for that, that's the way the rules are.

But F1 CAN effectively keep innovation at the forefront while making the sport an enjoyable one. God knows, it's going to need it after the debacle in Indy.

Think salary cap in American NFL football and try to translate that to F1 racing.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:58 pm

Salary in cap in F1 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

UTA  checkeredflag 
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nosedive
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
To be the pinnacle, which F1 is always touted a being, then teams should be allowed to choose who they want as a tyre manufacter, use their electronics as best they can.

Hey, so long as it isn't Michelin!

Quoting Slider (Reply 32):
Think salary cap in American NFL football and try to translate that to F1 racing.

That's what Max "wants" with his "cost-cutting" measures. Chopping off the USGP may help as well  sarcastic 
 
saslover
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RE: 2008 Proposed F1 Rules : Bull....!

Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:11 pm

It's like Sepp Blatter who wanted to get rid of draw games in soccer.
Pilot how soon can you land this plane. I can't tell. Yes you can tell me I am a doctor

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