whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:01 pm

Article HERE

The Co-Op Bank has given Christian Voice thirty days to empty and close its accounts on the grounds of their violently homophobic views.

Another reason to use the Co-Op Bank, with its strong ethical policies. More organisations should refuse to deal with hate-spreaders, and this follows Barclays who closed the acounts of the BNP.

Simon Williams, director of corporate affairs at the bank said: ."They are targeting one group of society in a hateful manner.

"The bank believes in respect for all sectors of society and its approach to Christian Voice is based purely on the issue of diversity and not on the grounds of religion."
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:11 pm

A Christian Voice spokesman said:

"Now we have found out how pro-homosexual the Co-op Bank is..."

Mmm.  Yeah sure
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Delta717
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 8:56 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:17 pm

Being a homosexual, I understand that many people don't agree with my sexuality...esoecially with people who are so engorged in their religion and have their heads stuck up their asses that they can't see that their beliefs aren't changing anything.

However, by what means were the anti-gay views "violent?"
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting Delta717 (Reply 2):

However, by what means were the anti-gay views "violent?"

There is quite a lot which isn't covered by this article, including the way in which this group sends out squads into places like Manchester's Gay Village to proselytise and harass gay men and lesbians.

Their Jesus Bus is a regular Saturday night feature. Harangueing people who just want to go about their business and enjoy their weekend qualifies as violently homophobic to me.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:29 pm

Mr Green, the author of a book called The Sexual Dead-End, said it was a conviction of his Christian faith that homosexual activity is "sinful".

Well, that is what the Bible says...


But there's no excuse for the Fred Phelps of the world, and such abhorrent people ought to be shouted down by Christians themselves, since they do God such disservice pursuing their personal vendettas. But I don't know what Christian Voice is, so I can't comment on them.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:35 pm

Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word.

And for the right discrimination is just fine and dandy towards everyone.

Your "what ifs" fail to address the fact that this hate-filled organization is just that - a pack of bigots bent on harassing others. So spare us the old myth about how distancing oneself from a discriminatory organization like this hateful Christian group is discrimination. It doesn't pass the laugh test.

As far as your idiotic comment about the bank not saying a word if this group was Muslim, facts have a way of laughing you in the face. Banks all over Britain have shut down the accounts of right wing Muslim fundamentalist organizations.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word

It has nothing to do with being anti-christian, I wish you people would get over your feelings that Christians in the US are under siege. That is utter non-sense.

It has to do with one group that has proved itself to be hurtful to another.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
Banks all over Britain have shut down the accounts of right wing Muslim fundamentalist organizations.

Actually, the idea that a fundamentalist Mulim group would use the Co-op in the first place is quite hilarious, given their very public stance on so many issues.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:00 am

If a group has a clear policy of hate, then a business has a right and indeed an obligation to not do business with them. In this case, this Co-op bank in the UK has a different social and small customer policy than other banks there and it is good to have that option. Problem is that if this was in the USA such a group could probably go to a small bank someplace with ownership that supports their views and open a legal account, under the cover of our free speech laws. However, if the group is found to be involved in violent acts or terrorism, then the USA government can seize their accounts and assets.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word.

It must be a sad little life you lead where literally everything is judged by the motto: I agree => it's right, I disagree => it's left.

So pray tell: where in this article does it say that this bank is 'left'?? Oh yes I forgot, they did something non-bigot: they MUST be lefties  Yeah sure
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:38 am

They are about to find out one hard fact, they might have got 47,000 e-mails (many including death threats) to the BBC, in a failed attempt to stop them showing The Jerry Springer Opera (very late, with Multiple and frequent warnings about language).

But they did this by getting their numerous loppy ChristianFacist friends in the US to pitch in sending the e-mails, (I make no apologies for that title, if the US right wing can say 'IslamoFacist' this atheist can see no problem in also using it a label another intolerant, twisted, hate filled bunch, who just sooo want to turn the clock back several centuries).

In reality, this bunch are tiny, and thankfully treated with contempt by the vast majority of the population, trying this stuff on in this most secular of nations is futile.
Unlike their increasingly powerful counterparts across the pond, sadly.

As for mainstream Muslims, with their opposition to paying interest, they not only have their own banks but now the major UK ones also provide accounts to match thier beliefs.
Perhaps they got this through polite persuasion, a lesson for this bunch of wannabe fundies perhaps?
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:43 am

Woohoo, way to go Bank  praise 
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 11):
this atheist can see no problem in also using it a label another intolerant, twisted, hate filled bunch, who just sooo want to turn the clock back several centuries).

But I hope you won't mind it when I say that you're ignorant and don't understand what the majority of American Christians actually are like, then? You certainly sound like you're referring to most, if not all Christians in America.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:02 am

Christian Voice have more problems to worry about, as they are now being investigated by the Police for certain activities.

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word.

Actually your ignorance is showing here.

Firstly a Muslim group would not use a British bank, they would insist on islamic banking.

Secondly, you played the



by throwing in your tired old anti-Liberal schtick to duck the issue. The Co-Operative Bank operates an ETHICAL policy.

Are you saying that ethics mean nothing in the neoclown world?
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
Are you saying that ethics mean nothing in the neoclown world?

Ethics are a liberal smear tactic!

Signed,
Tom DeLay
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 2938
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:12 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 7):
I wish you people would get over your feelings that Christians in the US are under siege. That is utter non-sense.

I agree. If anything some Christians in this country are the ones doing the opressing
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:18 am

Way to go Bank. You'd sure have some of my business if I was a Brit.

Its about time companies start standing up to these imbeciles who are a black eye to Christians and religions everywhere.

Oh and for all of you bitching about discrimination, you must have missed the memo: Advocating hate is NOT ok!

More power to companies in this manner, as it is within their rights to not do business with bafoons like Christian Voice.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 17):
Its about time companies start standing up to these imbeciles who are a black eye to Christians and religions everywhere.

The Co-Operative Bank provides banking facilities for many charities, Christian organisations and churches of any denomination, and are chosen for this due to their ethical policies. It is part of the larger Co-Op group which includes a huge insurance and pension arm run on the same principles.

They won't lend to dictatorships or invest in companies who (for instance) manufacture arms and then sell them to companies with poor human rights records. Similarly they also promote fairtrade schemes and establishing credit unions.

I am pretty sure there are equivalent organisations in the USA, and they need both commendation and patronage. Making your money speak for you is a powerful tool for change.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:19 am

Isn't CO-OP also affiliated with the trade union movement?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
Isn't CO-OP also affiliated with the trade union movement?

There are longstanding links and the Co-Op does provide banking for some of the unions.

It started out as a retail business owned by its members, and in fact still is. It is not owned by any unions as such and never was. The co-operative movement evolved in the same parts of society which unions also came from, namely working class people organising themselves, but had distinctly different aims and purposes.

The original co-op shops were opened to bulk buy food and sell it at reasonable prices, and it all developed from there. Any profits are shared out to the members who hold share accounts. And the financial businesses were added later on, becoming hugely successful in their own right.

As it is a co-operative and owned by its members, it cannot ever be the subject of a takeover as there are not any shares in the traditional sense. Members hold a paid up share account, which can be redeemed at any time but not sold or transferred to anyone else. Some of the profits have gone into social projects in the past, such as recreational facilities built and maintained for public use.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 7):
I wish you people would get over your feelings that Christians in the US are under siege.

Paraphrasing the Daily Show:

Christians are under siege. They have been a long oppressed part of society. And anyone who loves equality longs for a day when Christians can worship openly in public, anywhere they wish. And perhaps maybe someday the time will be right for an openly Christian president. Or 43 of them. Consecutively.  Yeah sure

Stop it with the "Christianity is under attack" stuff. It's really pointless.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:57 am

Whitehatter,

Up to the early 1980s, we also had a chain of Co-OP supermarkets in Germany, owned by the trade unions. The whole cooperative went bankrupt after one of the biggest mismanagement, corruption and selfservice scandals in German posrwar history.
See (in German language):
http://www.manager-magazin.de/untern...ssmanagement/0,2828,149040,00.html

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:20 am

(Ignoring above)
I think this is GREAT!! sure in all likelyhood there is 'another bank' that will gladly take the business. But for a business to make a stand like this commands my respect. I wish more business would put principal before profits.
This space intentionally left blank
 
L.1011
Posts: 2163
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:44 am

Certainly, deplorable, disgusting groups like this that seek to deprive and oppress the civil rights and liberties of a given group of people that have violated no logical (malum in se) law don't deserve the continued civil rights and liberties we grant them, but in our infinite benevolency and search for equality, we still allow them to spew their hate. Cheers to this bank for making life just a little harder for these whackos. And to those who claim that Christianity is unfairly treated, ponder this. I've never met an anti-gay Atheist. Have you?
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:26 pm

I'm sick of this recurrent theme here in non-av and could do w/o it for at least a few days.

Signed,

97% of Anet.
Living the American Dream
 
adam
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:45 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
But there's no excuse for the Fred Phelps of the world

Oh man that is one crazy fucker!

From WIKI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

Interesting man.

adam
Texas: You'll come for the Alamo, You'll stay because you were wrongfully executed. - Conan O'Brian State Quarters
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:38 pm

This bank has every right to select its costumers (as long as is not against the law). The Voice organization has every right to look for another bank to make business with. End of story. No big deal really.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians. I bet if this group was Muslim the bank would never have said a word.

Another hit and run I see. Well, I suppose that is what one must do when they are filled with hatred, since the longer you talk, the more we break down every, single argument you have. Co-op did not show discrimination, they showed they would not accept discrimination.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
where in this article does it say that this bank is 'left'??

Well, Co-Op does tend to be a left wing organization. Then again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 13):
But I hope you won't mind it when I say that you're ignorant and don't understand what the majority of American Christians actually are like, then? You certainly sound like you're referring to most, if not all Christians in America.

Well, given the actions of the most vocal, including those in government, people outside the US have no idea what else to think. As an American, I am very well aware that there are religious Christians from all across the spectrum. Most Catholics I know tend to be extremely left wing, yet go to mass every sunday and believe as strongly as you do. The problem is that the world cannot see that because the rulling Christians are those of the extremist variety. On A.net, it does not help that you and many others tend to resemble them the most

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
The whole cooperative went bankrupt after one of the biggest mismanagement, corruption and selfservice scandals in German posrwar history.

Completely the opposite of the UK Co-Op
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):
I'm sick of this recurrent theme here in non-av and could do w/o it for at least a few days.

Signed,

97% of Anet.

Sign for yourself, and if you don't like the topic don't read it.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 5):
Just goes to show that for the left that discrimination is okay as long as it is toward Christians.

The fact that these people are 'Christians' (and i am using the term loosely) has absolutely NOTHING to do with their banning. It is an extremist organization preaching hate, that so happens to call themselves Christian. What a joke! Leave it to you to bring up a point like this. But not like we'll see you in this thread again as you run off rather than defend/address your posts.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
seb146
Posts: 13794
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:06 am

Why is it so difficult for Christians who are politically conservative to comprehend the fact that there are Christians who are politically liberal? Why does it seem like the Christian Right can not separate government from religion? I thought in the United States they are supposed to be separate.

Besides, this bank is a private institution, right? They can pretty much do what they want. If banking in the U.K. is different, please let me know.

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
Why is it so difficult for Christians who are politically conservative to comprehend the fact that there are Christians who are politically liberal? Why does it seem like the Christian Right can not separate government from religion?

Due to the same reason Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and the Taliban don�t understand that there are liberal Muslims aound. Two faces of the same coin.
And I'm happy that they get shown their limits!

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 29):
Sign for yourself, and if you don't like the topic don't read it.

Well, I did read it, nonetheless, and I'm always glad to read your encouraging posts.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):
I'm sick of this recurrent theme here in non-av and could do w/o it for at least a few days.

Signed,

97% of Anet.

Well Allstarflyer,

You and that presumably "97% of A.net", are going to have to deal. The gay rights movement is just beginning to gain momentum. Pretty soon, topics such as these will be everywhere. We will prevail in the end. But until that happens, it's my job as a gay man to make sure you and other people who seem "not to care," aware of what society has done to us, and the positive steps we are taking together to give us equal rights, without hatred being preached down our throats. People can form their own opinions of homosexuality, but thankfully, the moral difference between thinking, and saying what they think, is becoming clearer everyday. Rarely do you hear an educated individual refer to a black man as a "N*gger." The black community rose together and forced the US to accept them as equal citizens. They still struggle today, but because the topic of racism became so popular in the 20th century, and many people debated it, racism is slowing down.

So, like the black civil rights movement, it took a lot of bravery to discuss topics that annoyed people, in order to educate them. Same thing goes with the gay civil rights movement. The only thing is, and perhaps unfortunate for you, is unlike the middle part of the 20th century, the gay rights movement will have an infinitely larger media base to support their campaign.

Get ready buddy, if you don't like it now, you are going to get really annoyed in 10 years.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:42 am

Well, UAL747, my comments were more in the direction of just how tiresome the arguement can be after so many threads. But since you're at least the 2nd here over whom the light bulb has faded concerning that, I don't mind addressing it a bit more.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 34):
The gay rights movement is just beginning to gain momentum. Pretty soon, topics such as these will be everywhere.

They already are.  

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 34):
But until that happens, it's my job as a gay man to make sure you and other people who seem "not to care," aware of what society has done to us, and the positive steps we are taking together to give us equal rights, without hatred being preached down our throats.

Hope your job pays well  . And, uh, ahem, I do care, thanks. Hatred preached down your throats? By whom? I respond and, at times, argue back and forth on this, but I don't condemn and condescend because you reject Biblical truth.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 34):
Get ready buddy, if you don't like it now, you are going to get really annoyed in 10 years.

You're already too late, but annoyed is just about as far as it goes. But, in the end, it is not I who will be annoyed, even in light of farcical remarks such as this:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 34):
We will prevail in the end.

Good luck to you and your way of life     

Edited for content

-R

[Edited 2005-06-26 00:42:52]
Living the American Dream
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 35):
I don't condemn and condescend because you reject Biblical truth.

So when your girlfriend is on the rag, do you reject the fact that she is to be seen as unfit and unclean? Do you just love to have some delicious pork ribs, even though it's considered unclean meat? Do you ever take a drive in the country and see farmlands where there are many different types of crops growing in the same field? Did you ever think about stoning the farmer because of this?

The scriptures of which the Christian right uses against homosexuality is part of the book of Leviticus, where some of the ideas I mentioned in the above paragraph were stated as abominations as well.

So, I ask you, do YOU reject Biblical truth?

And you said that the gay rights issue has reached an intense level... no buddy, it hasn't. It won't ever become that way until people who have been so repressed about hiding their sexuality for fear of being rejected feel comfortable with being who they are. We are nowhere near that right now. I can't put on my resume that I was a part of the Gay and Lesbian Association of the college I went to, for fear that I might not get hired.

What you are seeing on the news today will pale in comparison to what you will eventually see. This thing is just getting rolling.

BTW, "my way of life" is the same as yours. My sexuality is only one tiny part of my life. I eat, breath, love, work, pay bills, pray....my heart beats, my blood runs through my veins, I'm no different from you. The only thing different is that I have less social rights than you do. (Notice I said social as opposed to governmental, even though governmental rights for gays and lesbians are lacking as well). I will not be a second class citizen my friend. And you pointing a finger telling me I'm ignoring Biblical truth is quite hypocritical of yourself. What I find amazing is that the Christian right takes these two tiny verses, and makes that their political agenda. Just another way the church is controlling the masses. Didn't God say, "Do not judge, lest be judged yourself?"

your phrase, "Enjoy YOUR way of life" is exactly my point. With that comment, you make a differentiation, and put me into a catagory different from yourself. And, I seriously doubt you meant that my life is better than yours with that statement as well, so I will take it as a deragatory comment. That would be like me saying to a black person, "I hope you enjoy YOUR way of life." Even though they blantantly ignore the Biblical truth that having slaves is okay.



UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:13 am

I just wonder about one thing:
The biblethumpers on A.net seem to hail all from the US. I haven't seen any European bible thumper in here lately (Leveticus was one though...)

Jan

[Edited 2005-06-26 01:23:01]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
planespotterx
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:34 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:21 am

We all kno these Christian fanatics are "Bankers" anyway lol Big grin
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 37):
I just wonder about one thing:
The biblethumpers on A.net seem to hail all from the US. I haven�t seen any European bible thupmer in here lately (Leveticus was one though...)

We have what's called the Bible Belt here in the US. Usually protestant Southern Baptist, or other conservative christian religious sects. Small towns are the worst. I blame a lot of it on the preachers of churches. People, including people in my family, think that the preachers hung the moon. I have never been so mad when I went to church last. It was a Southern Baptist church, and as you know, Southern Baptists are anti-gambling. Hell, we aren't even supposed to dance. Well, they brought in a State senator, and the entire sermon was given by him to gain support for anti-gambling laws in Oklahoma. I didn't go back to the church because it was a prime example of how religion and politics are so inter-connected here in the US.

Fundamentalist Islam and Fundamentalist Christianity are one in the same with different theologies. Conservative Christians, I've often found, think they are better than others who do not conform to their beliefs. In fact, the Bible quotes them as being part of a select group that will be the only ones saved by the belief in Christ as their Lord in savior, thus the grandiosity of conservative Christians continues to grow.

That being said, I am a practicing liberal Christian. I do not fear God like some Christians do. I think He is compassionate and created people to be different. I think that is why each human being is so perfect, because there is nothing else like each individual. It's time we accept that we are all different and embrace our diversity.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 36):
The scriptures of which the Christian right uses against homosexuality is part of the book of Leviticus, where some of the ideas I mentioned in the above paragraph were stated as abominations as well.

So, I ask you, do YOU reject Biblical truth?

Uh, no, since the Scripture to which I usually refer is found in Romans 1. Been a hard one for gays to explain after reading that, pretty much no matter which Bible they read.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 36):
This thing is just getting rolling.

Perhaps. I'm sure there will be more intense conflicts down the road.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 36):
My sexuality is only one tiny part of my life.

Considering that sex and food are the greatest drives in human life, I would disagree.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 37):
The biblethumpers on A.net seem to hail all from the US.

You seem like a nice guy, MD. Thanks for the sterotype.  

Edited for content

-R

[Edited 2005-06-26 01:48:42]

[Edited 2005-06-26 01:50:34]
Living the American Dream
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:30 am

The thing is that I've never seen such hatred or preaching of hatred from the Lutherans or Roman-Catholics (except maybe in some villages in upper Bavaria), the two dominant religions in Germany. Even the Catholics (at least the urban variant) in Italy or Spain are quite easygoing.

In the Roman-Catholic Philippines, homosexuals are openly tolerated. I've seen plenty of openly gay people there.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 40):
You seem like a nice guy, MD. Thanks for the sterotype.  

He's fairly correct. I think the issue was that during the times that the US was settled, the people who came here were people escaping religious persecution. Then there were several waves of religious revivals in the US. Preachers in churches became the most respected people in small towns, especially in the south. There was also a large lack of education in the small towns, especially as society spread west and south from the north east. Many people turned to religion as a way of law and gathering. In fact, most functions in these small pioneering towns were centered around the church. As the civil war came along, the south again had a religious revival. Many of the women who were left behind turned toward the church for guidance and security, while their husbands were at war. Most of the time, the town preacher stayed to direct religious services.

What you have to understand, is that the further south you go during the times the country was being formed, the smaller the towns were, which meant less education, less exposure to different ways of thinking, and a church centered environment.

This is where it get's rather complex. Again, a new wave of relgious revivals swept the southern and western states at the time. While the extreme north east was growing in population, education, and turning into bustling cities, many people who were expanding west were only in small towns.

This intense relationship with the church and small towns stayed strong, even today. As the south and west became more industrialized, the relationship between the church and the people continued in the same tradition. It is the focal point of family life. Then, WWII sent another wave of Christian Revival, that can be seen in my grandparents, (especially grandmother) today.

Most of the bible belt area is comprised of small towns today, aside for the states capital cities, and perhaps one or two large cities within the state. Still today, most of the population of the US lives in these small towns, where they aren't exposed to other cultures, beliefs, ethics, and ideologies. Education systems in the south and midwest are nowhere near par when compared to those of the west and north east coasts, though our Universities are very competative. But, many people in the US also don't have a college degree either.


I'm not by any means saying that Christians are ignorant, but rather, I think they buy into an ideology and believe there is nothing outside that ideology. Many Christians I've talked with think that most of the world is going to hell once they die, because they do not agree with their ideologies.


If anyone really wants to watch a movie about what Christian US/Southern States is about, rent the movie, "Saved" with Mandy Moore. Hilarious stuff. But, that type of culture is what I grew up in.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 41):
The thing is that I've never seen such hatred or preaching of hatred

If standing on what Scripture says is hatred, then that's unfortunate for the listener to draw that conclusion, especially because the Bible is all about deliverance. Meanwhile, I'd like for you to draw out how I've been "hateful" to UAL747 in all of this. Otherwise, my unapologetic stand on Biblical truth will remain as "hatred" in your eyes.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 43):
Otherwise, my unapologetic stand on Biblical truth will remain as "hatred" in your eyes.

Many people liked Mien Kampf and the Communist Manifesto as well, while other people saw it as hatred. Depends on what side your argument is on.


While on paper, the Communist Manifesto would have worked, it left much room for corruption, as does the B I B L E.

The Christian gay agenda wouldn't be the first time the bible thumpers used the Bible for corrupt actions.

UAL

[Edited 2005-06-26 02:03:58]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:09 am

I think the problem lies with the Puritan influence in the US.
If you do a look back at British history, you'll find that Henry VIII split with the Catholic church after the Pope refused to grant him a divorce. As a result Henry VIII founded the Anglican Church of his own and after the Pope excommunicated him, went into open enmity with the Catholic church in a big power game. This wasn't helped by the fact that the Pope supported the at this time biggest political rival of England, Spain. There were also quite a few students of other protestant beliefs, Calvinists etc. in England, who saw it as an opportunity to settle grievances with the Catholic church.
Property of the Catholic church got impounded, which continued under his succesor Edward VI. After Edward's death, Queen Mary ("Bloody Mary") who was Catholic and additionally married to king Philipp II of Spain tried a rollback and had many Protestant burned at the stake as heretics.
Due to this rollback, after her death, there was an almost civil war like situation in England, where radical protestants thought it to be their right to punish and kill Catholics. Queen Elisabeth I cracked down on all parties in this argument. Catholics were banned from public office (due to fear of having the government subverted by Spanish agents), but received basic rights, while the excesses of the Protrstants were curbed with an iron hand, even though the still kept a lot of privileges.
The more radical Protestants, who thought it their god given right to kill Catholics and to ban all kinds of fun in the lives of their neighbours (music, dancing, colourfull clothes etc.) screamed "religious persecution", moved to America and became the Pilgrim Fathers.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 43):
Otherwise, my unapologetic stand on Biblical truth will remain as "hatred" in your eyes.

Maybe you should keep YOUR biblical truths to YOURself, deal? And once again, does not deal with the separation of church and state.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 43):
If standing on what Scripture says is hatred, then that's unfortunate for the listener to draw that conclusion, especially because the Bible is all about deliverance. Meanwhile, I'd like for you to draw out how I've been "hateful" to UAL747 in all of this.

I am not going to say that you have been particularly hateful to UAL here, but there are droves of people that show bona fide hate with the same with the same justification as you. Is that ok? You seem to be giving gay haters a free pass for their actions based on your interpretation of the bible.

Seeing many of these bible thumpers go on gay rampages makes me wonder whatever happened to the lost art of human decency.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:03 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 44):
Many people liked Mien Kampf and the Communist Manifesto as well, while other people saw it as hatred. Depends on what side your argument is on.

If you knew one lick about Scripture and its Author, being a "gay Christian", you would know about its intent, its message of God's love and deliverance and on and on that would make that comparison you tried to draw look foolish.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 45):
I think the problem lies with the Puritan influence in the US.

Same Puritan influence that found its roots in the Reformation started in your country, eh?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 45):
The more radical Protestants, who thought it their god given right to kill Catholics and to ban all kinds of fun in the lives of their neighbours (music, dancing, colourfull clothes etc.) screamed "religious persecution", moved to America and became the Pilgrim Fathers.

The more radical Protestants, you'll find, are the ones who are up in Northern Ireland who will never make peace with the bloody IRA.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 46):
Maybe you should keep YOUR biblical truths to YOURself, deal?

Well, maybe you'd like to come over and deal with it, since this is an open forum where I exercise the same freedoms of speech you have and do so in a civil manner.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 46):
Is that ok? You seem to be giving gay haters a free pass for their actions based on your interpretation of the bible.



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 46):
Seeing many of these bible thumpers go on gay rampages makes me wonder whatever happened to the lost art of human decency.

Oh, poor them. Can't hold ground in an arguement and sidestep the immorality of the issue by going off-topic in ways like "let him w/o sin cast the 1st stone" and "Christ was more accepting than this", etc. Yeah, nobody can casts stones, but, then, who's doing that here? Huh? What's that? Huh? Yeah, nobody, that's who. Practically every time I bring up Romans 1 (which still hasn't been sufficiently reinterpreted or addressed by gays professing to be Christians), I usually bring up Romans 2 - which says who am I to judge anyone else? Well, there you go - I can't judge, because I'm a sinner myself. But that doesn't mean I ignore Romans 1 and don't point it out when on the forums here. And, yeah, Christ was more accepting than I have been or ever will be, and that's because He's the sinless Son of God. But the same Bible that tells us of Him also is clear about homosexuality.

And it's because I mention these things (over and over) that I said this in the 1st place:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):
I'm sick of this recurrent theme here in non-av and could do w/o it for at least a few days.

But, then some of you so deliciously prod me back into it w/your stimulating quips about keeping my thoughts on the matter to myself.  biggrin 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 40):
Considering that sex and food are the greatest drives in human life, I would disagree.

Ever hear of Maslow's hierarchy? PLEASE!

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 47):
usually bring up Romans 2 - which says who am I to judge anyone else? Well, there you go - I can't judge, because I'm a sinner myself

6 versus admonishing Homosexuality
324 admonishing other things (eating pork, proper way to have slaves, making sacrifices, not allowing divorce)

You sure spend a lot of time in here telling people they are wrong, maybe you should re-read your last sentence.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Bank Bans Christian Anti-gay Group

Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:31 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 47):
Oh, poor them. Can't hold ground in an arguement and sidestep the immorality of the issue by going off-topic in ways like "let him w/o sin cast the 1st stone" and "Christ was more accepting than this", etc. Yeah, nobod

What f#cking "immorality"? If you feel offended, then feel free to close your eyes. A waste majority of people on this planet doesn't believe in your "god" and your morals. Don't force your beliefs on us.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests