mika
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London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:38 am

I for one haven't heard a word about how the bombs were placed in the tube cars and the bus, were they simply left in a bag to explode or were these guys suicide bombers?


I remember on 9/11 it was pretty quickly clear who the perps were and the media broadcasted photos if them the same day the tragedy happened. What's up with this in London? Or perhaps it's just too early to say for sure?
 
ita350
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:40 am

My guess is that it is too early to determine how it happened yet.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:42 am

Probably they put the bombs there and got off at a stop before they went off and right now they are probably either still in London or enroute to another city or back to the Middle East.

Who knows really though!

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
mika
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:43 am

The first scenario would for sure be the most favourable if you could put it that way in a tragedy like this. That would mean that the law enforcement could get their hands on them and punish them but even more importantly, maybe get some information from them that would be valuable in the world wide fight against terror.
 
Klaus
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:46 am

There are preliminary reports that at least the bus was indeed hit by a suicide bomber.
 
Jalto27R
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:46 am

If the bombs were left on the bus, and the carrier took off, they could be anywhere. To give you an idea, in the southern section of New Jersey, USA, there's 37 known terrorist cells. I can't imagine what it's like in London, or the UK in general.

Mike
 
GDB
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:02 am

Very early days still, however some suggestions that the one on the bus was a premature detonation, in transit elsewhere.
You sort of suspect that the ones on the trains were remote (mobile phone?) detonation, Madrid style.

Much forensic work on that bus, if there are remains of the bomber(s), whether suicide or premature, as well of course as determining the type of explosive and detonators.

I would think it highly unlikely any of them made a break for abroad, everything got so snarled up how would they get to an airport?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:03 am

there was a story on the radio here this morning that a police sniper had killed a bomber, any more on this?
 
GDB
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:17 am

No police snipers have killed any bombers.
Marksmen were deployed in some areas, plenty of them at LHR, both perimeter and at the main bus station.
Some suggestions about a suspect device being made safe, whether that was just an innocent but carelessly left bag, or a bomb, is still unclear.
If it was an intact bomb then the first breakthrough in the investigation.
 
Lee
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting Mika (Thread starter):
I remember on 9/11 it was pretty quickly clear who the perps were and the media broadcasted photos if them the same day the tragedy happened. What's up with this in London? Or perhaps it's just too early to say for sure?

When people travel by plane you have all their details, you have no idea who is riding a bus or a train.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:25 am

British intelligence is very thorough. They'll get to the bottom of it. Look how they solved the PA103 attack from a 5 mm chip of circuit board. Just give them time.

Mark

(Edit: grammar)

[Edited 2005-07-07 22:27:43]
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
ltbewr
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:37 am

This is a good question, that will require perhaps a day or 2 to get a preliminary idea. Hopefully they are just bits of dead flesh, and their spirits deep in hell. No 80 virgins for them!  devil 
Having been in London a number of times, I know that one doesn't leave any unattended bags anywhere, so the idea of a drop off of a bomb to be triggered by a timer or to be remotely exploded may be a lower probability. I would tend to believe that is more probable as to suicide bombers. From the human remains of the dead it can be determined if a particular person carried a bomb. It's too bad the creators of the bombs didn't blow themselves up in the preparation instead of this mass killing.

[Edited 2005-07-07 22:38:45]
 
petertenthije
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 6):
You sort of suspect that the ones on the trains were remote (mobile phone?) detonation, Madrid style.

I don't think it was done with mobiles considering the underground is, well, under ground. When in a tunnel the reception for mobile phones is very bad. Most sources I hear here are saying the bus was most likely suicide, so I suspect the trains to be suicide too.
Attamottamotta!
 
petertenthije
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
Some suggestions about a suspect device being made safe, whether that was just an innocent but carelessly left bag, or a bomb, is still unclear.

Heard the same from a MSN mate in Swindon. The incident you mention happened there att he train station.
Attamottamotta!
 
pelican
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
There are preliminary reports that at least the bus was indeed hit by a suicide bomber.

Hm, a terrorist expert on German TV said (ZDF) the bomb on the bus was probably to small to be a suicide bomb. I know it could sound cynical, but he said a suicide bomb would have killed even more people.


However I hope the police or another government agency will get this scum soon.

pelican
 
GDB
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:13 am

Well early days, it is not beyond a dedicated terror group to make their own remote control detonators, if you don't trust a mobile to work on the tube, (they do, but not well). the Kings Cross one was in about the deepest tunnel on the network, so was probably picked for that reason.
If they were all suicide bombers, one small mercy, it slightly reduces the death toll of innocents.
As for the bus, 2 have been confirmed dead, but it has been indicated that this is expected to rise.
Though it happened right outside of the H.Q. of the British Medical Association, so plenty of medics right there, meaning immediate help for victims.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
Kings Cross one was in about the deepest tunnel on the network, so was probably picked for that reason

Kings Cross is also the busiest underground station on the network, and has the most 'lines' (6 in fact) running through it.

Brings back memories of the Kings Cross fire disaster  Sad



Lee
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lijnden
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:38 am

The bombs most likely went off with remote-device-triggering. (Even in tunnels this is possible). Bombs like this are also in the future most likely to be used because suicide-bombers are simply not easy to find and often fail in action. Therefore, I also doubt that the bus was meant to be blown up by a suicide-bomber, I think something must have gone wrong and the bomb went off or was triggered by something too early. Because of this newer type of explosion devices, the people responsible for this crime are not likely to be found. After an act like today, the cell responsible is already broken up for good and probably watching the chaos they created on TV right now. I hope that the IMO mistake with the bus will create a lead anyway to the capture of the butchers of London. I hope that people will also realize that if the mad terrorists have a smart-bomb (small nuclear device) they will use it without any hesitation.
Solution:
There is none! Unfortunately, terrorism will be a part of everyday life now and should be seen as something that can happen. It is also obvious that everybody, regardless of nationality, color or religion is a target. I just hope that they NEVER get their hands on a smart-bomb.

A small 'teaser' for Klaus,
Hi Klaus,
Death-penalty for the terrorists? I am all for it, what is your view?

[Edited 2005-07-07 23:50:26]
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alberchico
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:41 am

they probaly left the country by now..............
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BMIFlyer
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 17):
Death-penalty for the terrorists? I am all for it, what is your view?

Amen.


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
brettbrett21
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:51 am

death penalty?? haha what a joke!
If the people who committed these atrocities were ever put on trial I can guarantee they would get off lightly, British sentencing is an absolute shambles, I'd be surprised to see them serve a full 25 years. Hopefully someone would just assassinate them though, even though death is the easy way out for these scum.
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ZSOFN
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 17):
suicide-bombers are simply not easy to find

From what I know about the fundamentals of islam, the only way one can assure their own salvation is through martyrdom, so I really don't think there's a shortage of hardcore islamists out there who would give their life for this. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that given the choice between remote detonation or suicide, many would choose the latter. I will keep my views on this theology to myself for the time being!
 
Nimish
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:09 am

I was at Kings cross an hour before the blasts, feel fortunate to have completely escaped, but feel very sorry for those that got injured/killed.
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scbriml
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Having been in London a number of times, I know that one doesn't leave any unattended bags anywhere, so the idea of a drop off of a bomb to be triggered by a timer or to be remotely exploded may be a lower probability.

Unfortunately, in the rush hour the trains are so crowded it would be very easy for someone to leave a package on the train and for it to not be noticed. You don't leave it on a shelf or seat (not that there are any free), but just get on, leave the package by your feet, then get off at the next stop leaving the package behind. I think it would be easy.

There are reports that the bus bomb was either a suicide bombing, or the 2 dead may have been the actual bombers and the device went off too early.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
mika
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):
There are reports that the bus bomb was either a suicide bombing, or the 2 dead may have been the actual bombers and the device went off too early.

This makes alot of sense if you watch the photos of the havoced bus. To me it looks like the bomb was located on the top floor of the bus (as the roof went off). Now, why would you place a bomb on the top floor instead of concentrated more to the middle of the vehicle like in the middle on the lower floor? The way this thing blew dont make much sense if you are a madman looking for te maximum amount of casualties.

 
MD11Engineer
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:43 am

On CNN earlier today there was talk about islamist websites publishing instructions for an easily made explosive, of which the components are readily available, but with the drawback of it being highly sensitive to pressure, shock and temperature changes. I don't know which explosive they mean, because there are several which will fit the description. It was speculated that maybe one bomb exploded accidentally while the bombers were on the bus to place it at a target.

Jan
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N1120A
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
Hm, a terrorist expert on German TV said (ZDF) the bomb on the bus was probably to small to be a suicide bomb.

Well, I have confirmation from a Metropolitan Police source that it was indeed a suicide bomb

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
I know it could sound cynical, but he said a suicide bomb would have killed even more people.

Hmm, fully 1/6th of the buses capacity was killed, that sounds like enough to me

Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
the Kings Cross one was in about the deepest tunnel on the network,

Was it on the Northern Line?
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scbriml
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Hmm, fully 1/6th of the buses capacity was killed, that sounds like enough to me

That's not correct. As of the 11pm news, there are only 2 confirmed deaths from the bus bomb.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
N1120A
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 27):
That's not correct. As of the 11pm news, there are only 2 confirmed deaths from the bus bomb.

According to the latest news I have read on the internet, there were 9-10
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KiwiNanday
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:07 am

CNN claims that only two of the 37-38 casaulties were from the bus.
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pilot kaz
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 27):
there are only 2 confirmed deaths from the bus bomb.

One of them I can confirm to being aged only 17 years.

It was my Mums-Friend-Daughters-friend, if that makes sense.
-
 
TPASXM787
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:13 am

Where are the bombers?


Hopefully rotting in hell where they belong.  devil 
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flylondon
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Well, I have confirmation from a Metropolitan Police source that it was indeed a suicide bomb

...and it's very likely they have the CCTV video of them boarding and detonating it. Looking at the wreckage the area around the driver's cab where the CCTV recording equipment is located is relatively undamaged.
 
rjpieces
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:47 am

Some news outlets here are reporting that two more bombs were found and defused.....Any truth to this?
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L-188
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 12):
I don't think it was done with mobiles considering the underground is, well, under ground. When in a tunnel the reception for mobile phones is very bad. Most sources I hear here are saying the bus was most likely suicide, so I suspect the trains to be suicide too.

That is likely, some sort of timed device. Trains are supposed to be punctual of course, so it wouldn't be a hard trick to time it.

Quoting Mika (Reply 24):
To me it looks like the bomb was located on the top floor of the bus (as the roof went off). Now, why would you place a bomb on the top floor instead of concentrated more to the middle of the vehicle like in the middle on the lower floor?

Sounds logical, however don't those double0deckers board from the rear? if the guy was just getting on when it blew the all of the energy would have gone up the stairwell and lifted the roof of the upper deck, as well as demolish the back of the bus, which appeared to me to be ripped apart to.

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 31):

Hopefully rotting in hell where they belong

Amen,
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:31 pm

British "services" have carefully avoided to give real details about the explosives stuff. They gave an explanation about what sort it was, so that you might conclude it may have been Semtex 98 or 02. And this is quite CORRECT that way. First to establish REAL facts and then get out information. The same with the "bus-bomber". The report about a young man who fumbled around with his bag just seconds before the explosion apparently is a press-report only, up to now at least. They have provided the information required by the public and clearly definite. They of course will combine the exact investigation with the search for the culprit, and therefore have an additional reason NOT to be too quick with "announcements". Overall, London can be gratulated for its excellent emergency services who have shown their capabilities in an astounding way.
-
 
edka
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:29 pm

Regarding the suicide bomber on the bus: The security expert on BBC last night was saying that the police are leaning toward the theory that the bomb on the bus has detonated prematurely and they believe that this was not what the terrorist/s were planning to do. They believe that the terrorist/s have been transporting the bomb to some other location and something unexpected has happened.

The police apparently have came to this conclusion after examining forensic evidence from the bus...
 
mika
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RE: London: Where Are The Bombers Themselves?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 34):
however don't those double0deckers board from the rear?

As far as i remember while i was in London 2 years ago, those modern double deckers like the one on the photo do not board from the rear, only the old ones have that ability. These ones board like any other bus, from the front/side.

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