soyuzavia
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London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:38 am

Everyone, myself included, has been so quick to jump on the Al Qaeda bandwagon, but is it possible that we have all jumped the gun and blamed the bombings in London on the wrong people? After all, it's been done before, remember Oklahoma City? Why has no-one looked at one of the obvious possible perpetrators -- the Real IRA or other hardcore Irish Republican groups?

Look at some of the info available

* The IRA has a long long history of bomb attacks in London. After the Provisional IRA signed peace accords, the Real IRA splintered and continued their armed campaign.
* The group claiming responsibility for the bombings are an as yet unknown group. An unknown group is usually an indication of a hoax?
* Attacking the transport network isn't out of the realm of possibility of the RIRA considering they were behind the Omagh bombings, and several other bombings in London.
* The Real IRA says they don't target civilians, but Omagh proved this is false. As do some of their other attacks
* The fact there was no warning doesn't necessarily indicate "Al Qaeda". With the Omagh bombings there was a warning, but it deliberately warned about the wrong place, causing authorities to move people towards the real bombsite.
* There are reports that the bus bomb was accidental. The bomber was transporting it elsewhere when it accidentally detonated. Flashback to 1996. An IRA bomber on a double-decker had his bomb accidentally go off with a few injuries.
* Irish Republican groups have access to all types of weapons -- bombs included -- and have not held back in using them.

Yes, it is true that the RIRA has lost a lot of it's importance -- it's leader was imprisoned, and there has been success in infiltrating their ranks -- but who knows if there has been a further splintering of the group into even more hard-core Republicans intent on further violence.

Such groups have the 'reason', the will, the means, and maybe more importantly, the history of attacks, to have been responsible for the bombings in London, but it seems we are all intent on only pursuing the Al Qaeda angle.

Sure, I might be completely wrong. But until hard evidence is available, I could also be right.

And as a sidenote -- if it wasn't Al Qaeda, or another "Islamic" organisation, which was responsible, I wonder if we would all be quick to apologise to the Muslim word, as we were to judge and condemn it.

[Edited 2005-07-08 01:40:42]
 
TedTAce
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:46 am

Let's just say I raised "another possibility" and it was met with a basically justified deletion. Now is not the time to sepculate exactly who did it, just lick our wounds and hold eachother tight, and be thankful we made it through another day on this crappy rock.
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N766UA
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:21 am

Uhhh.... an Al Qaeda faction took credit for it....
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UAL747
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:28 am

It follows the similar pattern that Islamic terrorist attacks have taken. Busses, train stations, etc where there are massive amounts of people, not really paying attention to their surroundings, headed to work. Plus, organizing coordinated, covert attacks seem to be the expertise per se of Islamic Fundamentalist terror organizations.
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TACAA320
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:35 am

I don`t personally care if they are "islamists`"(sic from the original post) or not. But they deserve to pay, whoever they are, in the full extension of the law, for what they did.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:36 am

I was living in Ireland when the Omagh bombing happened. AFAIK, the RIRA members, who were known to the PIRA (being ex PIRA members) received a housecall from the PIRA, threatening them with a permanent resting place with the fishes in the Northern Atlantic if they wouldn't disband their group pronto.

Jan
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TheRedBaron
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:48 am

I think is safe always to have an open mind toward this kind of crimes, I remember the Oklahoma bombing, finally it was an american who did it, same with the 3/11 on Madrid, they jumped early on on the ETA bandwagon to be found later it was not the case....

I am So happy our president FOX did not endorse the Iraq invasion, because id be pissing on my pants right now, one of the things I have noticed is the convenience of the "date" just for the G8 meeting, if someone gained from the disruption from the Meeting are bankers and very very powerful people who did not want to see any change in the status quo of the world today...

I really hope I am wrong and this has been perpetrated by Al qaeda, because those can be found and brought to justice, the bankers..mmmm NOT.

My condolences to the people of the United Kingdom
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EA CO AS
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Thread starter):
Why has no-one looked at one of the obvious possible perpetrators -- the Real IRA or other hardcore Irish Republican groups?

Because it has been a VERY long time since the IRA has been blowing things up in Britain (and even then, they mostly did their business outside of England itself), they've been unprovoked, the fact that these attacks fit the profile and are consistent with an al Qaeda operation, and that an al Qaeda faction in Europe has in fact claimed responsibility.
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theCoz
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Thread starter):
Everyone, myself included, has been so quick to jump on the Al Qaida bandwagon, but is it possible that we have all jumped the gun and blamed the bombings in London on the wrong people?

It could also have been a bunch of meteors for all I know. I suppose it all depends on how illogical you decide to get.

I guess it all boils down to this: Why would an unrelated terror group decide to emulate the terror methodology of Al Qaida? It doesn't make sense to me for an unrelated terror group to use another's tactics when they're well practiced in their own.
 
zeekiel
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:14 am

I'm beginning to wonder about the label "Al-Qaida".

Al-Qaida has become more of a brand name like McDonalds, Starbucks or Boeing. Terrorist groups that are small in size use the umbrella of Al-Qaida to carry out attacks. Whether there are conclusive financial and physical links between Osama Bin Laden and these smaller groups is remained to be proven or non-existent.

Cheers

Zeekiel

[Edited 2005-07-08 04:15:52]
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UAL747
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:30 am

Maybe they sould call themselves, "Al-Qaida Inc." or "Al-Qaidasoft" for those computer viruses that are so pesky.

UAL
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ltbewr
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:38 am

While 'al-Quada' is not what it was, there had been growing numbers of small, semi-independent cells of terrorists whom share some of the reasonings and methods of al-Quada as to attacking the western, Christian world. I think some mosques in the UK known to be supportive or preaching about terror against the 'west' may be subject to intense investigations by the police, MI-5 and others to hopefully remove foreigners whom support such terror or ship them off to Saudia Arabia to face 'Islamic' justice.
 
StarAC17
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:38 am

We did it because you took the Olympics from us.

Signed,

The French 

In seriousness it was definitely a Islamic group because the attacks basically mirrored the Madrid bombings and I believe that the terrorists think that it will get the UK out of Iraq.

[Edited 2005-07-08 04:43:24]
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slider
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:03 pm

It doesn't matter who did it as long as they are exterminated for doing it.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:14 pm

It wouldn't matter who it was, terrorism is terrorism, whether it be Militant Islamists or the IRA. They committed a cowardly act of violence. The 45 victims and counting, and 700 wounded would be no-less sad if it were done by any other terrorist organisation.
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allstarflyer
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 13):
It doesn't matter who did it as long as they are exterminated for doing it.

Exactly. In the end, it doesn't matter from where they hail or what cause they seek to advance, as long as they meet justice swiftly and efficiently.

-R
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Kieron747
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:18 pm

As I understand things, the IRA usually gave coded warnings. Where there any warnings against today's attack?

And also, apart from a few examples, the IRA's targets were always political, not generally civillian.

It is a very sorry day for the UK. A country that is so rich in cultural diversity, I fear that the right wing extremists in the UK are going to have a field day hassling anyone in England who isn't white, anyone who wears a headscarf, anyone who is a peaceful Briton yet dresses differently according to their religion.

There will be several political repercussions to this. I just hope no more innocent British folk get hurt... or discriminated against.

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b757300
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:18 pm

This has all the signatures of Al Qaeda or one of their affiliated groups. Other terrorist groups like the IRA usually call in warning before the bombs go boom. The Islamic terrorists do not. Also, this is almost a play for play repeat of what happened in Spain. Blow up some trains (and a bus this time) and hope the country runs home and hides under their beds. The Spanish decided to run away and cower, I believe (and hope) the British will show the terrorists that they do not run in the face of threats.
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Klaus
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:25 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 17):
The Spanish decided to run away and cower

They threw out a lying, cheating PM - and they would still have re-elected him if he hadn´t been caught re-handed.

Yeah, reality sucks sometimes. But it still beats delusion every time.
 
Mir
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:05 pm

It was most likely an Islamic group, but even though they have "al-Qaeda" in the name, it doesn't mean that they have any affiliation with al-Qaeda.

Many terrorist groups draw inspiration from al-Qaeda, and claim to be acting on their behalf. I'm sure nobody in al-Qaeda is shedding a tear over the attacks, but there's no proof that they were at all connected.

-Mir
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jcs17
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:19 pm

I will be shocked if it wasn't someone from the "religion of peace" carrying out the attack. There are extremely few Christian sects or cults that advocate suicide missions, which is apparently what happened on the double-decker.
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Kieron747
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:24 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 20):
which is apparently what happened on the double-decker.

Is it confirmed then that it was a suicide bomber?

Kieron747
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jcs17
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 21):
Is it confirmed then that it was a suicide bomber?

I wish I had an answer to that but I saw a credible news-source's report that it was a suicide bomber in the case of the bus. I can't find the link, but I'd think it would be a highly legitimate explanation.
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soyuzavia
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
Uhhh.... an Al Qaeda faction took credit for it....

Correct. But no-one in the intelligence community has ever heard of this 'faction' before. No-one knows if this group even exists, and it was merely a hoax. It's been reported that shortly after this 'faction' took credit, the website on which it was posted closed down. Why? They have never been reported in the past to close down after bombings which have been attributed to Al Qaeda. This seems unusual to me. Furthermore, it's been reported that the grammar in the 'admission' is quite poor, and there was no reference to any Koranic verses -- both things which are supposed to be unlike Al Qaeda. So one has to doubt that 'admission'.

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 8):
Why would an unrelated terror group decide to emulate the terror methodology of Al Qaida?

But this is the thing. Al-Qaeda doesn't hold a patent or trademark on terrorism. Who can say if an Irish Republican group has decided to move forward from single bombings, to multiple bombings. In fact, there have been instances of the IRA planting multiple bombs at different locations in the past in London.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 7):
Because it has been a VERY long time since the IRA has been blowing things up in Britain (and even then, they mostly did their business outside of England itself),

The last major RIRA bombing was a few years ago (2001). But most of their, and the IRA's, most 'prestigious' campaigns were in London itself.

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 16):
As I understand things, the IRA usually gave coded warnings. Where there any warnings against today's attack?

Sometimes there were, sometimes there weren't.

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 16):
And also, apart from a few examples, the IRA's targets were always political, not generally civillian

Not quite true. Guildford Pub, Harrods, Canary Wharf, shopping centres, etc. One could even say that the London transport system is a 'political' target?

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 22):
I wish I had an answer to that but I saw a credible news-source's report that it was a suicide bomber in the case of the bus.

There's only one way the credible news source could know for sure. They either were responsible, or they know for certain who was responsible and knew before the event what was gonna happen. So I would have a problem with that. The other thing I'd have a problem with is the so-called experts from who the media generally gets their information -- these so-called experts were responsible for naming Islamic fundys in Oklahoma City, and some also claimed ETA was responsible in Spain. How wrong were they then?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
AFAIK, the RIRA members, who were known to the PIRA (being ex PIRA members) received a housecall from the PIRA, threatening them with a permanent resting place with the fishes in the Northern Atlantic if they wouldn't disband their group pronto.

Correct. The 'top brass' of RIRA did call for the group's disbanding. But weren't there still smaller acts of violence in Northern Ireland last year which were attributed to the RIRA? And we're talking Irish Republicans here -- there is always going to be supporters of the cause who are unwilling to give up their 'fight'. One group shuts down or agrees to a cease fire, and another group rushes in to take their place.

I'm not making judgement calls myself, nor trying to deflect from one group or another, but in my mind, you hear of terrorism in London, I think of something different as history shows us. Of course I could be wrong, but not so quite to jump on that bandwagon, which even Blair and other UK ministers aren't jumping on at the moment.

What happened was a horrible thing, but I for one want to see blame being put on the right people, not premature conjecture and accusations as is always the case.

And the last question of my first post. If it is shown it wasn't Al Qaeda, but an Irish Republican (or other) group responsible, who would apologise to the Muslim world for the false accusations? One UK member has been banned for basically saying he encourages retributions against the general Muslim population -- flashbacks to Oklahoma City in which retribution was dished out to Muslims and other "Asians", before it became known it was a white fundy who was responsible.

[Edited 2005-07-08 12:25:28]
 
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scbriml
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:37 pm

Latest news on the bus bomb here is that police suspect either a suicide bomber or a bomb carrier who had the misfortune (sarcastic) to be blown up by his own bomb.
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soyuzavia
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:50 pm

So basically, it's a flashback to the 1996 incident?

Having a look here, http://www.externalserver.me.uk:8085/Terrorists.htm it is interesting to see that the IRA have attacked the tube in the past - numerous times between 1991 and 1993, long before any Al Qaeda group did this in Madrid.
 
travelin man
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:35 am

Sorry Soyuzavia. I think you are really reaching to say it is an IRA attack, when these unwarned coordinated bombings of civilian targets carry few hallmarks of an IRA attack, and when even you can admit it would be a VERY odd time for an IRA attack, given there has been no reason for the IRA to suddenly bomb London.

On the very off-chance this is not an Islamist-related attack, why would anyone apologize to the Islamic world in general? I mean, nobody is accusing the Islamic world in general, just al-Qaeda or a sympathizer of al-Qaeda. And I'm pretty sure there will be no apologies to al-Qaeda for "false accusations".
 
soyuzavia
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:41 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 26):
Sorry Soyuzavia. I think you are really reaching to say it is an IRA attack, when these unwarned coordinated bombings of civilian targets carry few hallmarks of an IRA attack, and when even you can admit it would be a VERY odd time for an IRA attack, given there has been no reason for the IRA to suddenly bomb London.

Nothing against you Travelin man, or anyone else on these forums. But can we stop using the word 'hallmark'. It's use shits me. Let me tell you why. The only original idea that Al Qaeda has ever had was to hijack some aircraft and slam them into buildings -- hell, even then it wasn't their idea, but rather they were the first one to successfully carry it out. The media goes on about these bloody hallmarks, and it's frankly a load of you-know-what. Plenty of other terrorist groups have targetted public transport systems before, including the IRA, Chechen groups, etc. It's nothing new, and it most certainly isn't limited to "Al Qaeda". There really is nothing distinctive about the actual bombings which would indicate with any degree of certainty Al Qaeda was responsible. Everything done in London has been done at one time or another by other non Al Qaeda groups. But alas, it is human nature, as much of the media has shown, that we blame those whom we are most scared of, or most unfamiliar with.

In all likelihood, it could very well have been an Al Qaeda attack. But nothing wouldn't surprise me if it is shown it wasn't. But to say I am 'reaching' is a bit much. People would have said exactly the same thing on 19 April 1995 if I had of said that Oklahoma City was the work of a white fundamentalist. And don't deny it. Everyone in the US, from the man on the street corner, to those in the halls of powers in Washington believed it was Muslim fundamendalists. I would have been called a lunatic, and probably attacked (or worse) as a Muslim sympathiser if I even so much as suggested it was a white bloke. The same as with S71812 which was initially blamed on Chechens. I would have been declared legally insane to have suggested it could have been an errant Ukrainian missile. History shows that truth is often stranger than fiction.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 26):
On the very off-chance this is not an Islamist-related attack, why would anyone apologize to the Islamic world in general? I mean, nobody is accusing the Islamic world in general.......


Go and have a look at the other threads on these forums. Have a look at the media in general. A hell of a lot of people are blaming 'muslims' in general. Comments such as "why won't the Muslim leaders condemn this", "religion of peace", etc -- usually said in such a way that they are actually blaming all Muslims. Of course, no one should apologise to Al Qaeda or any terrorist group, but the entire issue is much bigger than that, and i am sure you know it.

I'm not arguing for or against any group or person being responsible or not responsible. I'm not so stupid as to suggest one way or the other who it was or wasn't. But it makes me wonder why others are so quick to jump on the 'blame' bandwagon, when the only way one could say for sure, is one is actually responsible for the bombings.
Aussie officials are urging caution in blaming Al Qaeda or another other group
, but whilst they 'concede' the bombings were most likely carried out by "Islamic" radicals, they raise their own possibilities it could be local group with little or no connection to the larger Al Qaeda network. If only the media and politicians were of the same way of thinking.

Do people know what I am getting at?
 
jacobin777
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
Uhhh.... an Al Qaeda faction took credit for it....

and they have taken "credit" for other things which they have not done..only to "make a name" for themselves

Quoting B757300 (Reply 17):
This has all the signatures of Al Qaeda or one of their affiliated groups. Other terrorist groups like the IRA usually call in warning before the bombs go boom. The Islamic terrorists do not.

and may I ask why "Islamic" was highlighted? I hope you don't have a problem with Islam or Muslims...

If they were Muslims or "Islamic" people, they wouldn't be killing other Muslims...

they are basically "fanatics" who have attatched "Islam" to their name..this problem has occured with all (most) race/religion creed throughout history...

I guess its the "in thing" to bash Muslims and Islam now...

as a Muslim, I can certainly say I'm COMPLETELY againt who "Al Queda" and Taliban are...I've known about the Taliban since the early/mid 1990's..I've heard horror stories about them for a long time..well before 99.9% of the world population knew who they were..

its a shame these people have once come to power..but if you look at why the Taliban, Bin Laden came to power, part of the probles is the United States..


after helping the "mujahideen" of Afghanistan to defeat the Russians (a war which killed tens of thousands of Afghanis..), rather than helping out Afghanistan with aid and getting the country on its feet, the United States left Afghanistan "left to dry"..which created a power vacuum for which the United States "could have cared less"...with the resulted in the eventual power of the Taliban.who in helped Al Queda grow...they are like a fungus, and the United States let them grow..if the United States treated the disease earlier, Al Queda would never have been the structure it is now...

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 20):
I will be shocked if it wasn't someone from the "religion of peace" carrying out the attack.

see above..


if you look statistically how many Al Queda members are there? maybe, maybe a few thousand...well thats pretty small % given that there are over 1.2 billion Muslims in the world....


2 entries found for fanatic.
fa�nat�ic Audio pronunciation of "fanatic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (f-ntk)
n.

A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

Source: The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright � 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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ly7e7
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:05 pm

London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Martians. It must them.
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GDB
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:25 pm

Actually having the 'Hallmarks' of previous attacks does have resonance, but not only in the general M.O.
Type of explosives, type of detonators etc.

Madrid was an AQ affiliate, but had North African drug dealers involved, hence why the highly competent Spanish security forces failed to prevent it.
They simply were not expecting known criminals to end up working with fanatics.
This 'clean skin' approach is very difficult to prevent, use people who may or may not be known to the police, but not likely to show up on lists of suspected terrorists.
That is what the 'Real' IRA used in their attacks in the 1996-2001 period, at least on the ones in the mainland UK, as known 'players' would likely be picked up by security forces.
 
jamesag96
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
If they were Muslims or "Islamic" people, they wouldn't be killing other Muslims...

That is a tired and obviously untrue statement.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
if you look statistically how many Al Queda members are there? maybe, maybe a few thousand...well thats pretty small % given that there are over 1.2 billion Muslims in the world....

Then I invite the rest of your 1.2 billion Muslims to collectively and LOUDLY denounce terrorism and rad-Islam. Until that happens, unfortunately the voices and actions of a "few" dictate how the rest are perceived.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
they are basically "fanatics" who have attatched "Islam" to their name..this problem has occured with all (most) race/religion creed throughout history...

Well then perhaps it is time for an Islamic reformation.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
nycflyer
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:18 pm

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 6):
if someone gained from the disruption from the Meeting are bankers and very very powerful people who did not want to see any change in the status quo of the world today...

[quote=Theredbaron,reply=6]I really hope I am wrong and this has been perpetrated by Al qaeda, because those can be found and brought to justice, the bankers..mmmm NOT.

So bankers cause more harm than al Qaeda? What a dumbass statement, to say nothing of offensive.
 
lehpron
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RE: London: What If It Wasn't 'Islamists'?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 31):
Well then perhaps it is time for an Islamic reformation.

So, the few spoil it for the many. Do you think the entire Catholic faith should be reformed because of a few priests with lil'boys? If you are going to stick with a sweeping generalization, even if you are playing fire with fire, apply it to yourself first.

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 31):
Then I invite the rest of your 1.2 billion Muslims to collectively and LOUDLY denounce terrorism and rad-Islam. Until that happens, unfortunately the voices and actions of a "few" dictate how the rest are perceived.

The word 'perception' is key, but who are you to pass judgment based on your perception? Doesn't that seem a little ignorant or is it good enough for you? Let me tell you how I think you perceive the majority do not condemn these actions:

1) People on this side of the planet perceive them as the enemy. Condemnation does not make the ratings go sky high in western media; hence, you will never see or hear them. Extremist sells because it is immediate, it is right there in your face, it disgusts you. You watch to satisfy an inner need to see them burn in hell, if only you could do it yourself... Do you honestly want to see a regular Muslim person speak their mind because they are not likely to kill you? Not in post gen 9/11, that does not sell. You have been fed the extremism pill so much that you will see any message against the view you have accepted as out of character, i.e. hypocrite or liar. You will not watch or read the segment, hence it will not sell. Don't count on ever seeing Muslim leaders condemning these actions, your media outlets know what you like to see, you wanna see'em strung up, all of them.

2) Yes, bias exists, sadly, this being another business aspect apart from the above. There are not too many Arabic news media outlets that liberal enough to tell the whole story or dare show any wrong on the part of the conservative believers. It is likely the conservative outlets have a much larger following, but who gets the blame, the followers or leaders?

3) Do all Muslims own a TV or know how to read? How do they get their news, how do they know anything in the world? Do they care? From this forum we can see how some Americans care about the world; I guess you and some of them have something in common -- that you both do not give a damn for the other. What do you depend on? Hearsay; which is so completely inaccurate that it is ignorant to buy into it. Maybe you/they believe in you/them at their/your own convenience.

You folks have something else in common, ya'ller not that different after all!  Big grin

Seriously, you are so right about perception, are you aware of yours?
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