cha747
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Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:14 am

As long as I can remember, Jamngar, India's airport shares runways with an Indian Air Force base there. Hence, there are no landing lights on at night and there is no scheduled service there at night for "security" reasons. Now, with the satellite image feature on Google maps, Jamnagar's airfield is clearly visible. Do countries have a say in what Google maps can post on the internet and what they cannot? I can find Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, AL, Edwards AFB in CA, and perhaps even a runway at/near Area 54 (?...I am looking west of Roswell, NM). Can Google just show anything they want?

[Edited 2005-07-09 20:19:13]
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:22 am

I assume so. I doubt India can tell Google what to show or not to show any more than Bush can tell the press what to say about him. Let's face it, there is a lot more damaging info available on the www than Google sat images.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:26 am

There's a very little govs could do against google, because there are satellite pictures commercially available that are far better than those on google maps. Although the 1-meter resolution remains the maximum for civilian purposes (like the images showing Manhatten). Area 51 can been seen and airbases around the world. Often airbases are the only notable in some of the high-resolution spots ...
 
gigneil
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:27 am

India can absolutely restrict visibility of their secure areas. Its not as if Google owns the satellites, and India could easily restrict the provider of the imagery from selling them.

N
 
jfkaua
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
India can absolutely restrict visibility of their secure areas. Its not as if Google owns the satellites, and India could easily restrict the provider of the imagery from selling them.

how?
 
PADSpot
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:57 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
India can absolutely restrict visibility of their secure areas. Its not as if Google owns the satellites, and India could easily restrict the provider of the imagery from selling them.

There is no international legal agreement that would enable any government to enforce its security concerns as regards civilian satellite images owned by a company in some other country. Meanwhile there are satellite maps commercially available that cover the entire planet with an 1-meter resolution. If restriction would be possible you would definitely find some "black spots" on the maps ... but there are none. Even "Area51" (10m resolution), Edwards AFB (1m resolution) etc ... There are even those North Korean areas in 1m resolution, where those nuclear plants are suspected.

But I know that there is an restriction that regulates the development of ultrahigh-resolution cameras e.g for satellites. From some point on there are considered as a "weapon" and are therefore restricted. But that's only valid for some countries like the US. Germany has a similar but more liberal regulation ...
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
India can absolutely restrict visibility of their secure areas. Its not as if Google owns the satellites, and India could easily restrict the provider of the imagery from selling them.

N

Actually no they can't. Area 51 is on google maps!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
lobster
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:06 am

Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry?

Maybe the picture was taken when Clinton was in office and he had Monica over for a "cigar" ....  Silly
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
SATL382G
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.

The U.S. Capitol is blurry. The White House is clear but has areas greyed out.....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
PADSpot
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.

Ehhhmmm ... isn't that the Capitol? The are also some neighboring buildings blurred

I am using the Google Earth programm but it should use the same maps.
The White House is, I think, further to the north west with its roof in a strange brownish color and two neighboring buildings are blurred and shaded with a brownish-grey color.

[Edited 2005-07-09 21:32:47]
 
zvezda
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:28 am

The domestication of fire is a security threat -- as is nearly every technological advance since. Get over it. There is no safety in Ludditism.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:38 am

Are 51 is blocked off, if you try to zoom in all the way. You can see not much further then TNX (Tonopah Test Range).
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 12):
Are 51 is blocked off, if you try to zoom in all the way. You can see not much further then TNX (Tonopah Test Range)

That doesn't mean that it is blocked, but the resolution of the satellite image is not better than than 10m. It also seems to be a radar image, which shows wrong colors. Most of the US look like this on Google Earth.

If you are look for satellite images of "Area51" just look on the web. There are plenty of them ... GlobalSecurity.org for instance ...

[Edited 2005-07-09 21:52:26]
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
That doesn't mean that it is blocked, but the resolution of the satellite image is not better than than 10m. It also seems to be a radar image, which shows wrong colors. Most of the US look like this on Google Earth.

Yes it is blocked, because saw it.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
UPS707
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.

Go figure... Disneyworld in FL is the same way. We were looking at the parks the other day and Disneyland is fine, but DW has the same blurring that downtown DC has.
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:28 pm

Has anyone seen Area 51 and wouldn't mind getting an image of it and posting it?

I have always been curious about it...

Thanks
Mike
 
L-188
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:34 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
There is no international legal agreement that would enable any government to enforce its security concerns as regards civilian satellite images owned by a company in some other country. Meanwhile there are satellite maps commercially available that cover the entire planet with an 1-meter resolution. If restriction would be possible you would definitely find some "black spots" on the maps ... but there are none. Even "Area51" (10m resolution), Edwards AFB (1m resolution) etc ... There are even those North Korean areas in 1m resolution, where those nuclear plants are suspected.

While there is not international convention against this, I am pretty sure that the US goverment did buy the rights to all of the Terraserver images taken over Afghanistand and Iraq during the initial operations there.

I assume that they have also approached other operators to keep those images off the market.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
echster
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:45 pm

To answer your question, I don't think it likely that the satellite pics on Google are a security threat. IMHO, the image intensification is not of high enough quality to ascertain anything but the general location of a target. Now, let's say, military grade sat pics made it on the net, then that would be a larger security threat.
 
knoxibus
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:36 pm

Well I always wondered because so many big airports are so close to main cities that the resolution on Google Earth is quite accurate, so....

Anyway they put Area51 as a default placemark but resolution is bad, however, US Govt did ask Google to blur the Capitol???, so it is possible then (I bet it's to hide where the SAM sites are located.)

Just for fun, I tried to find some "sensible" areas (well I consider sensible).

Managed to find two Aircraft carriers (one in San Diego, the other in Norfolk), and a nuclear submarine in Groton's Electrical Boat.

Personnally, on the civil aviation side, it should be treated as a risk, but then again it's always easier to pan-scan on your PC first instead actually scouting around on airport and having the possibility of being spotted (I am talking about somebody whith evil deeds here!)

However, might be good to find some new spotting location?

[Edited 2005-07-10 11:46:44]
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
wgw2707
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:52 pm

I'd be suprised if the US Government actually asked for either the White House or the Capitol Building to be blurred, since the Google satellite views are NOT in real time and the Capitol and White House are practically the most photographed buildings in the country. So many pictures of the White House have been taken, and I would assume continue to be taken, that you could probably assemble them to form a complete three dimensional model, and the same goes for the Capitol. Is this a security risk? I sincerely hope not. One would prefer to believe that anything THAT sensitive is safely concealed underground.

-WGW2707
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:13 pm

It isn't a security risk for the simple reason, that if somebody wants to find out that information they can simply get on the ground and photograph it in more detail. Remember the kind of person who would do this is an extremist, and therefore willing to go to extreme lengths.


Also as has been said, there are far better quality satillite images out there available if you pay...for just about anywhere in the world you want.
 
TIMC
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:18 pm

Are these maps real time?

I was just thinking you could see all the activity at that moment for any airport if they were...
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:44 pm

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.25...98&spn=0.086921,0.120352&t=k&hl=en

Area 51 is whitened out, no matter what you guys are saying in previous posts. Geez, why don't you LOOK at what you are talking about before posting.
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:15 pm

The google pictures are made up out of a mosaic of different pictures taken by different satellites using different techniques (e.g. pictures taken at high resolution, at lower resolution, in the visible optical range and infrared pictures). E.g. there is a neat line going through Berlin, Germany, everything to the east of it is high resolution, while the west is in slightly different colours, and lower resolution.

I also noticed that some pictures have a better resolution than 1 meter. On the picture showing the place where my daughter lives near Sacramento, Ca, I could distinguish the floor markings on the parking lots, which are appr. 10 centimeters wide, on these pictures it seemed to have been the limit of the resolution.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:22 pm

Google isn't the issue here.

If commerical satellites can see secret stuff, so can governments. It's not like rivals to India get their information from freaking google.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:32 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 25):
It's not like rivals to India get their information from freaking google.

One may be entitled to think that Pakistan have their own Satellites if they have their own Nuclear Weapons Program....  tongue 
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
aseem
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:38 pm

this is nothing, try zooming into New Delhi, and you can figure out Indian Parliament, Prime Minister's residence, Presidential Palace and what not..
Lately I've been roaming around the streets of Delhi sitting far away in Ottawa..funny isn't it. Thanks to Google.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 25):
If commerical satellites can see secret stuff, so can governments. It's not like rivals to India get their information from freaking google.

Exactly. I mean erasing things from maps is soo Cold War-like. Sometimes I wonder if those Russian generals or whoever decided not to give names, only numbers, to those "secret" cities in Siberia seriously thought that they hide them effectively from those who wanted or needed to get the info on these places.
 
Vulindlela
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:43 pm

Has anybody looked at Arlington VA on google earth? The downtown area looks as if each block was taken from a different viewpoint and assembled later. The buildings all lean together. This is the only place I have seen that so far. Can somebody tell me if they see the same thing?

-kevin

-specifically the southern part of the downtown area, just below the big group of buildings. It is the same across the water to the east.

[Edited 2005-07-10 14:45:11]
"If you take everything I've accomplished in my entire life and condense it down into 1 day, it looks decent!"
 
stlgph
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:25 pm

when you go to google maps, what do you type in in order for area 51 to appear?

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 23):
Area 51 is whitened out, no matter what you guys are saying in previous posts. Geez, why don't you LOOK at what you are talking about before posting.

if you scroll around the "general area" there's quite a few more of these bright white areas out there. i wouldn't rule it out as being whitened out just yet, it could be a matter of things. one of which being...there are types of rock that can be laid down in order to reflect light reflections from satellite imagery and spy planes.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Newark777
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:09 pm

Area 51 is whitened out, no matter what you guys are saying in previous posts. Geez, why don't you LOOK at what you are talking about before posting.

Whitened out? Are you serious? Anyone who knows just basic facts about Area 51 knows that it is a giant dried lake bed. That is the way it is supposed to look.  Yeah sure

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
desertjets
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:22 am

Spending time on Google Maps can be a lot of fun. Zoomed right in over the Norfolk Naval Base and found 2 carriers, 1 LHD, any number of cruisers, destroyers, and frigates, plus a few SSNs all in port. But I couldn't make out any ship numbers, and I have NO CLUE when these photos were taken. This missing piece of information is critical. And knowing that a certain ship is in port, or what a building looks like seems to be a rather minor thing. Not like you cannot find it out. And it isn't at a resolution that is of real use, parking lot stripes aside.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
stlgph
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 32):
I have NO CLUE when these photos were taken

most photos i have looked at seem to be taken around the late 2001 through mid 2002 period. this is just going by what i have seen based on my own knowledge on what structures that weren't in particular photos that i know were built after the middle of 2002.

st. louis airport is a good example. if you look at STL you can see there is still a hub and if you remember the timetable of hybridization of TWA/TWA LLC/AA planes. i'm guessing the STL photo was taken in the spring of 2002.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dl021
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
India can absolutely restrict visibility of their secure areas. Its not as if Google owns the satellites, and India could easily restrict the provider of the imagery from selling them

No they can't.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.

It's the capital.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 9):
Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
Has anybody noticed that the Whitehouse is blurry? Its the only thing that I've come across so far that is like this. hmm.

The U.S. Capitol is blurry. The White House is clear but has areas greyed out.....

Like I said.

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 16):
Has anyone seen Area 51 and wouldn't mind getting an image of it and posting it?

Google it.

Quoting TIMC (Reply 22):
Are these maps real time?

Heck no.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 23):
Area 51 is whitened out, no matter what you guys are saying in previous posts. Geez, why don't you LOOK at what you are talking about before posting.

That's a salt lake bed....not a deliberate whiting out.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
aloges
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 34):
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 23):
Area 51 is whitened out, no matter what you guys are saying in previous posts. Geez, why don't you LOOK at what you are talking about before posting.

That's a salt lake bed....not a deliberate whiting out.

Terraserver has higher resolution imagery of Groom Lake AFB, and even there, the "whitened out area" appears... complete with the runway going right across it.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
dl021
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 35):
Terraserver has higher resolution imagery of Groom Lake AFB, and even there, the "whitened out area" appears... complete with the runway going right across it.

Yep...you can see the runways at Edwards made the same way. The hard bed of the ancient lake makes for an excellent natural runway without the need for paving or concrete.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
greasespot
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:12 am

Ummmm They did know where these "targets" are before google so why would it be a htreat...not like they are moving the White house arround...Heck I can buy a map there will give me directions to it...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
7FTwinOtter
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:13 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 16):
Has anyone seen Area 51 and wouldn't mind getting an image of it and posting it?

I have always been curious about it...

Thanks
Mike

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/area51/Area51-072503-LG.jpg This is a pretty high res colour satellite photo. If you look on-line besides all the conspiracy crap there is some interesting stuff about the evaluation of foreign aircraft at Area 51. This site has some good pictures of various migs in USAF colours; http://area51specialprojects.com/migs.html
 
Newark777
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:45 am

Ummmm They did know where these "targets" are before google so why would it be a htreat...not like they are moving the White house arround...Heck I can buy a map there will give me directions to it...

As for the White House, it's probably not so much where it is, but what is on top of it. There are probably objects such as rocket launchers and other security devices that some people don't want you to see. Interestingly, I went to the Terraserver site, and the top of the White House is just plain brown, and I know there is more on top of there than just a plain roof.  Wink

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ima...=43073&W=1&qs=%7carlington%7cva%7c

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
stlgph
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:03 am

there are architectural ways (tiles/panels, etc.) for creating the "illusion" you see atop the white house.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Newark777
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:21 am

there are architectural ways (tiles/panels, etc.) for creating the "illusion" you see atop the white house.

That is true, but it looks almost too uniform to be an erected shield. Also, as you can see in this photo, the obstruction doesn't appear in other aerial photos. You should to be see the white "chimneys" and other objects on the roof.

http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/q...hdc_ww2_memorial_may24_2004_dg.jpg

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
stlgph
Posts: 9053
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RE: Are Google Satellite Images A Security Threat?

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:54 am

well, from what i understand the these tiles, or whatever you want to call them, are used to shield against radar and spy satellites. it was briefly explained in my Remote Sensing class...but i was napping in the back at the time.

the picture you showed is most definitely an aerial photo.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport

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