MD11Engineer
Topic Author
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:08 am

The British top Islamic leaders are about to issue a fatwa condemning the terrorists. So far the content is not known, but it could mean an instant excommunion of the terrorists and radical supporters and break down the "fellow Muslim, right or wrong attitude" adopted by many Muslims so far.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article298109.ece

Jan

Edit headline because it was too long

[Edited 2005-07-11 18:13:47]

[Edited 2005-07-11 18:14:05]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa Against Ter

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:14 am

Since local muslim leaders have only limited authority, it´s not the same as an excommunication threat by the pope for catholics; But it´s certainly a step into the right direction.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:52 am

It's certainly a step in the right direction, but i'm not sure this is what some of our right wingers want to hear, Muslims condemning terrorism? How can that be?  sarcastic 
In Arsene we trust!!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:54 pm

Good for them. I hereby grant them a license for this fatwah ( Smile )
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 3):
Good for them. I hereby grant them a license for this fatwah (

The problem is that no one cares what you say, JPG.. Big grin - if all people did, the world would be a better place  bigthumbsup 
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 4):
if all people did, the world would be a better place

I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Despot !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:11 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
but it could mean an instant excommunion of the terrorists and radical supporters and break down the "fellow Muslim, right or wrong attitude" adopted by many Muslims so far.

I should hope it would be more of a "Wanted:Dead or Alive, preferably dead" type of Fatwa.

Now if the clerics in Cairo and Mecca start saying the same thing, it would make me feel much better about them.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:55 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
if the clerics in Cairo and Mecca start saying the same thing

-
Both the Grand Imam of Egypt and the Sheikh al-Azhar have unanimously clearly condemned such terrorist acts long ago . And they are THE most high-ranking Muslim clerics around
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Tosspot !

I fixed your post....
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:13 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
Both the Grand Imam of Egypt and the Sheikh al-Azhar have unanimously clearly condemned such terrorist acts long ago . And they are THE most high-ranking Muslim clerics around

Condemnations are cheap, and don't mean anything. History is full of bogus condemnations. I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:20 pm

Condemnations are cheap, and don't mean anything. History is full of bogus condemnations. I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

Demanding practical action from muslims is also cheap and easy. As a muslim, i keep hearing from some non-muslims that we must stop the extremists. Can you elaborate on that? What do you actually mean when you say this? What exactly can a religious leader or a ordinary muslim do to stop terrorists? Shoot every guy with a beard who comes in for friday prayers?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:26 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 9):
I will believe in their sincerity when they preach to their followers that they must reject such fundementalism, and do everything they can to stop it if they are aware of it.

No, if that happens, you will start bitching about how Muslim clerics dare to interfere with day-to-day politics and how they're terrorist supporters.

Why can't people realise the double standards they're applying to Muslim fundamentalists and Christian fundamentalists such as the IRA? Wasn't the IRA officially allowed to do fundraising in the US, at one time?! Unless people understand that using religion as an excuse for power-hungriness, high-ranking clerics can't do jack about terrorism.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:26 pm

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 10):
Demanding practical action from muslims is also cheap and easy. As a muslim, i keep hearing from some non-muslims that we must stop the extremists. Can you elaborate on that?

Simply to explain to their flock that 1) the intentional killing of innocent civilians is wrong, 2) That NOTHING (i.e. zionism, infidels, whatever) can possibly justify such actions, and 3) that all Muslims have a moral duty to report to the authorities any such terrorists they may know about.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 8):
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I agree entirely. Vote JGPH1A for Benevolent Tosspot !

I fixed your post....

For you, I'll happily forgo the "Benevolent" bit. Fatwah for you, matey !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:33 pm

Simply to explain to their flock that 1) the intentional killing of innocent civilians is wrong, 2) That NOTHING (i.e. zionism, infidels, whatever) can possibly justify such actions, and 3) that all Muslims have a moral duty to report to the authorities any such terrorists they may know about.

ALL of this has already happened and is happening, how do you know that muslim leaders are not telling muslims that killing is wrong, suicide is wrong, that it isn't justified, that they have to report any suspicious activity within the community to the authorities?. None of these things need to be told to muslims, suicide is a crime in Islam, the killing of innocents is a crime in Islam, just like in Christianity and Judaism. These three things you've listed happened after 9/11, after Madrid and is happening now after London's attack. I really think you need to broaden your horizon before making such statements against muslims. All it takes is a few clicks on Google or Yahoo and you will find tons of information relating to how muslims and muslim leaders have reacted not only in the UK but around the world.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 14):
ALL of this has already happened and is happening, how do you know that muslim leaders are not telling muslims that killing is wrong, suicide is wrong, that it isn't justified, that they have to report any suspicious activity within the community to the authorities?.

I know that many clerics do basically do this, but 1) not enough, and 2) they frequently qualify their condemnation. I.e. "suicide bombing is wrong, BUT...". The proof that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified, and how many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens (although as far as I know, that did not happen for the London bombings, thankfully).

And yes, they DO have to be told to Muslims, evidenced by the facts above and that Wahabi-funded schools have brainwashed so many people in the world.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:16 pm

The proof that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified, and how many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens

How many is "so many"? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many support terrorism? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many "came out in the streets celebrating 9/11"?

And yes, they DO have to be told to Muslims, evidenced by the facts above and that Wahabi-funded schools have brainwashed so many people in the world.

No, not every muslim has to be told, only those on the peripheral of society and those who are vulnerable need to be reminded.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 2):
Muslims condemning terrorism? How can that be?

It's about damn time one of their own condemn this stuff.

Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

Now they need to turn the screws on their radical brethren and police themselves.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 16):
How many is "so many"? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many support terrorism? Out of the 2,000,000,000 muslims, how many "came out in the streets celebrating 9/11"?

If it were only 1%, that would still be 20 million terrorism supporters and/or potential terrorists. I consider that many people.



Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 16):
No, not every muslim has to be told, only those on the peripheral of society and those who are vulnerable need to be reminded.

I never said "Every" Muslim, and most already know that (otherwise we would be in a major war, not a guerilla skermish). But, like I said, 1% is still a big number, and either they must be educated, or eventually killed when they decide to show up on the battlefields of Afghanistan or Iraq.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:37 pm

If it were only 1%, that would still be 20 million terrorism supporters and/or potential terrorists. I consider that many people.

Let's assume for arguments sake it is only 1%, around 20 million muslims, why should the remainder 1,980,000,000 take the flak for a group who are not answerable to anyone or anything? Considerning the figures we are talking about here, 20 million is still a minority. Even having said that, i highly doubt there is 20 million terrorists roaming around in Afghanistan, Iraq or Finsbury Park. Al Qaeda has a generous following, MI6 and the CIA estimate Al Qaeda has between 15,000 to 30,000 hardcore terrorist followers. But 20 million? That's a fantasy figure.

Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

Which muslim community and where?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
For you, I'll happily forgo the "Benevolent" bit. Fatwah for you, matey !

Join an increasingly long queue WhiteHatter..... Big grin
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 20):
Join an increasingly long queue WhiteHatter.....

Get back in the Pit of Stoning, you !

I'll take 3 large ones, 2 pointy ones and a packet of gravel...
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
Get back in the Pit of Stoning, you !

I'll take 3 large ones, 2 pointy ones and a packet of gravel...

But all I said was Jehovah......
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
that too few actually preach this is evident by the fact that there are so many muslims that feel that terrorism is justified

-
Not many Muslims feel or felt that terrorism is justified

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
many people come out in the streets to celebrate when something like 9/11 happens

-
A few dozen people celebrated, and were filmed, and these films shown again and again and again --- as the media people found these films nice

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community

-
silence ? already after 11Sep01, both the political and clerical leaders have clearly condemned that. And this has been in the media all over, and quite public
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 17):
Talk is cheap, but at least it's better than the embarrassing silence that has heretofore eminated from pretty much the entire Muslim community.

What a load of crap (as usual).

Do you read Arabic, Urdu, Persian, Bengali, Indonesian, Tagalog?

Do you follow the news from majority Muslim countries? Do you read their newspapers? Follow their news?

How many Muslims have you talked to/interacted with in the last 4 years?

The Muslim press is filled with angry condemnations against fundamentalist radicals. At the same time they don't let the US off easily either.

Asking fundamentalist crazy preachers to condemn their hateful ideology is a bit like asking the Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson to walk in a Gay Pride Parade. Hatred is their stock in trade. But just because these whackjobs aren't making amends doesn't mean that the vast majority of Mosques, the Islamic press, and governments don't fee otherwise. Do a bit of research before you make loose accusations.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:16 am

No, the IRA were not Christian fundamentalists, they were mainly Marxist, so Atheist, (But they forgot to mention that to their clueless US supporters and backers, including one GOP politico, one Pete King).
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
Do you read their newspapers? Follow their news?



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
Asking fundamentalist crazy preachers to condemn their hateful ideology is a bit like asking the Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson to walk in a Gay Pride Parade. Hatred is their stock in trade.

he never reads any newspaper.. what do you expect from Slider? That he converts into an intellectual and well-read from today to tomorrow?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:01 am

OK ace, go show me the condemnations from the leading Islamic organizations....walk the talk....there have been numerous with regard to the London attacks, but the most sensible voices were eerily quiet after 9/11. And not a peep uttered after any of the preceding attacks.

The silence has been deafening, or at the very least buried on the back pages, which would raise another fascinating question for those who believe in a media-government complex.

Muslims need to be MORE vocal in condemning all forms of terrorism and reform their own religion.

[Edited 2005-07-12 20:07:13]
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
Muslims need to be MORE vocal in condemning ALL forms of terrorism and reform their own religion.

They do condemn it.. is it possible that the media "does not (want to) know about it"??? And is it possible that you would just cross out any such news out of your memory coz it would result the collapse of your "own world of stereotypes"?

For India I can only say: the voice of the poor is often neglected..

[Edited 2005-07-12 20:08:04]
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 28):
They do condemn it.. is it possible that the media "does not (want to) know about it"???

A possibility 20 years ago. But today, where the internet reigns and we have access to nearly every newspaper article in the world, plus millions of sites belonging to organizations large and small, that argument simply does not hold water.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 28):
They do condemn it.. is it possible that the media "does not (want to) know about it"???

That's a good question, and I think one that needs to be asked...loudly. I don't have the answer to that one, wish I did, because we might be able to decipher the whole amalgam easier.

But for every reactive condemnation, there seem to be dozens of other proactive articles, examples and proof of the zealots. Perhaps they've hijacked their religion. If it is a minority among them as we are continually lead to believe, then why isn't something being done about it?

That's my point.

If anyone wants examples of the above issues I'm talking about, I can post links til I'm blue in the face. It's disgusting.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
today, where the internet reigns and we have access to nearly every newspaper article in the world, plus millions of sites belonging to organizations large and small, that argument simply does not hold water.

How about we do some internet research and present our results here.. you and me? Will try my best to take some time off my lunch break tomorrow - OK?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
eerily quiet after 9/11

> while also after 11-09-01, Muslim clerics in the West, Muslim clerics in the Arab World, Arab politicians in the Arab World, and school classes and company staffs and people in public all over the Arab World, clearly and outright condemned those attacks. There were vigils in Casablanca and elsewhere, and people stating their solidarity with New York. All these things also have been in the West European press, not only in the Arab Press ----- but of course, the US press was busily commenting the repeatedly shown TV-films of the women allegedly in East Jerusalem distributing candies to children, and some people allegedly "celebrating" the event.

Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
The silence has been deafening, or at the very least buried on the back pages


--- back pages of the US press maybe, but normal pages in the world press

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
nearly every newspaper

-- accessible you mean --- and YOU read them ALL ? amazing and admirable, but you apparently did NOT see those things I mentioned above -- so that I after all conclude that you do not take full use of the accessibility you boast about !
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: British Islamic Leaders To Issue Fatwa

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 32):
-- accessible you mean --- and YOU read them ALL ?

Who said I read them all? I didn't. I just said that it is possible to access them via the internet.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: VTBDflyer and 10 guests