whitehatter
Posts: 5180
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The Power Of Prayer

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:22 pm

So an American University has done a definitive study and found that the power of prayer is a myth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4681771.stm

Heart patients who were prayed for by friends and relatives had no better outcome than those who did not. However the study did not discount the benefits of positive state of mind being beneficial in the patient, as other parts of the study showed some benefits there.

The prayer study initially found positive results, but a wider survey sample contradicted this earlier data. Expect some screaming from the fundie lobby and attacks on the institution (Duke University)
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
TedTAce
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Thread starter):
Expect some screaming from the fundie lobby and attacks on the institution (Duke University)

 Yeah sure

I will not begrudge the fact that patients with a positive attitude do better then those who are pessimistic. For a lot of people that positive attitude comes from their religion/faith.

The point I have to make is that if 'god' gives you a better attitude, AWESOME for you!!! Just don't try to shove him don't my throat or get caught up in the BS that people praying make a difference.
This space intentionally left blank
 
Lutenist
Posts: 280
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
will not begrudge the fact that patients with a positive attitude do better then those who are pessimistic.

I really should include a source to back up my refutal, but I can't remember where I read that a recent study has suggested that in fact a positive mindset seems to give no appreciable advantage to patients. I'll rack my brains for a source.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
The point I have to make is that if 'god' gives you a better attitude, AWESOME for you!!! Just don't try to shove him don't my throat or get caught up in the BS that people praying make a difference.

Well said.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:24 pm

From the faithful, all you really need to hear is that these results mean jack squat for reasons beyond comprehension. You don't need to take it, but at least respect those who do. That's my only necessary comment.
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bezoar
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:14 am

The Bible tells us (Christians) that He is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. So, does God change in response to our prayer?

I believe that the power of prayer is that it transform us, and usually in ways that are not quantifiable.

The studies of which I am aware of prayer influencing medical outcomes is in the areas of quality of life. Also, long-term cancer survivors - those who had metastatic disease and were not expected to live - usually had a very spiritual life. It was not clarified what percentage were 'Christian.'
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
KiwiNanday
Posts: 1334
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 4):
The Bible tells us (Christians) that He is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. So, does God change in response to our prayer?

I believe that the power of prayer is that it transform us, and usually in ways that are not quantifiable.

The studies of which I am aware of prayer influencing medical outcomes is in the areas of quality of life. Also, long-term cancer survivors - those who had metastatic disease and were not expected to live - usually had a very spiritual life. It was not clarified what percentage were 'Christian.'

I- I'm sorry, I couldn't pick the facts out, what with all that bullshit clogging the post. I think you said cancer survivors are religious. Uh-huh. Ok, I'll make sure I don't get cancer  Wink
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
iowaman
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:46 am

Prayer is a bunch if BS IMO which is why I choose to be atheist in this conservative religious old people town.
 
bezoar
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting KiwiNanday (Reply 5):
I think you said cancer survivors are religious

No, I said the study revealed that long-term cancer survivors tended to be spiritual. It is not an opinion of mine. The study says nothing about a connection between spirituality and getting cancer in the first place.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12398
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:06 am

Knocking at death's door from a health crises or if your injured can make even the most dedicated heathen start praying. I am not saying that prayer will make you all better, but prayer can be useful in a psychlogical way to make one better prepared and to have strength to deal with the situation.
 
Klaus
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:06 am

The point of the study is that there is no evidence that there is a supernatural link between prayer for somebody and that person´s health despite that person not knowing about the prayer.

The positive health value of self-affirmation and social contacts has been proven many times; But it´s entirely independent of religious superstition.
 
sidewinder
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 6):
Prayer is a bunch if BS IMO which is why I choose to be atheist in this conservative religious old people town.

God doesn't believe in atheist.  Smile
"I don't think I will ever get over Macho Grande"
 
KC135R
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 6:38 am

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:52 am

I heard this and was not surprised at all. Hell - the Pope prayed he would not be chosen to be the Pope and you see how that worked out.  Wink I agree with some others though, if prayer is your thing and it helps you be positive which might help lead to recovery - than go for it!

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 7):
No, I said the study revealed that long-term cancer survivors tended to be spiritual. It is not an opinion of mine.

I suspect it's more likely the high percentage of spiritual people in survivors is two fold - some were spiritual before and survived, many of the rest likely became spiritual after surviving a near death experience - a phenomenon that happens often from what I have read. What it does not mean is that the cancer patients were two groups - those who were spiritual and lived, and those who were not spiritual and were struck dead by a vengeful God. So I hope you were not implying the latter.
 
bezoar
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting KC135R (Reply 11):
So I hope you were not implying the latter.

That was certainly not my intent.

I recently did some 'googling' for information regarding faith and medicine connection, and came across a reference to this particular work. I have not reviewed the actual research.

For anyone interested, the page on which I found this reference is:
http://www.cmbm.org/conferences/ccc98/transcripts/schlitz.html

You are also quite right that many folks begin to seek God when things are falling apart around them. I think it is because all pride and pretense are stripped away.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
KC135R
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 6:38 am

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 12):
I think it is because all pride and pretense are stripped away.

I believe it is because they realize (and subsequently fear) their morality.

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 12):
That was certainly not my intent.

Good, just checking!!  Wink
 
MD-90
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:41 pm

I'm not surprised that such a study would be done, but there are other studies that show that people with religious faith recover faster from illness. It's well documented.


But then again, look at someone like Lance Armstrong, who is pretty much irreligious. He's accomplished tremendous things.
 
TACAA320
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RE: The Power Of Prayer

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:56 pm

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

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