ConcordeBoy
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What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:51 am

...as inspired by Bush & Buddies.



This question isn't just for 'mos or US citizens, but anyone.

If you had it your way, what one realistically plausible amendment would you add or subtract to/from the USA Constitution?
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b757300
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:13 am

Section 1. The seventeenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the states by the Congress.
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TedTAce
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:16 am

No Member of Congress shall personally gain from their position any compensation or future promised compensation other then that gained through payroll and benefits of the United States Government. In line with that, the Federal election comission will be suitably funded to provide the appropriate campaign funds in equal ammounts to the candidates sufficient for an appropriate campaign. Any unused funds will be returned to the PEOPLE of the United States of America.
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TedTAce
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:21 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
The seventeenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

So you want who to choose our senators??? Great idea...take yet more power away from the people being governed...  Yeah sure
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SlamClick
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:22 am

All government salaries shall be tied to minimum wage. They can not be raised without raising minimum wage.

All government employees from the President on down shall retire onto Social Security, plus any personal assets such as IRAs. (that should fix Social Security!)
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TedTAce
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
All government salaries shall be tied to minimum wage. They can not be raised without raising minimum wage.

I can't say I like this one...stunning, I know.. but there are a lot of people who are pissed enough they have to work for the government as it is (let's not forget our troops either) that cutting thier wages would be an un-recoverable slap in the face....unless you want to move the IRS and SSA to India?!?!?

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
All government employees from the President on down shall retire onto Social Security, plus any personal assets such as IRAs. (that should fix Social Security!)

This sounds pretty good...but I want them to get rid of special interests first!!
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stlgph
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
All government salaries shall be tied to minimum wage. They can not be raised without raising minimum wage.

good luck finding teachers.


My Change: "All cover bands must perform 'Mustang Sally' at least once."

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
If you had it your way, what one realistically plausible amendment would you add or subtract to/from the USA Constitution?

oh well...hrmmm....in that case

"Each person over the age of 18 must designate one or more persons to become legally responsible for estate and livelihood decisions in the event a person becomes irreversibly incapacitated in any way. This person shall be the first and foremost authority regarding decisions to be made to this person's estate and future well being."


that takes care of the gay marriage/civil union debate and future Terri Schiavo's right there.
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zotan
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
All government salaries shall be tied to minimum wage. They can not be raised without raising minimum wage

I like it, but tie it to the people who make the laws. Senators, congressman, mayors etc. The president will get a lucky brake by making the equivalent of 20USD an hour.

So here it goes: All Congressman, Senators, Mayors, Governors, and Councilmen shall make mimimum-wage. There pay shall not go up unless minimum-wage nationwide goes up. The president shall make the equivalent o twenty 2005 dollars.
 
L-188
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:20 am

Make the 2nd amendment apply to the states.

Put limits on Enemint Domain and the Commerce Clause.


[quote=SlamClick,reply=4]All government salaries shall be tied to minimum wage. They can not be raised without raising minimum wage.


I like those two, but rather then stating goverment employees, I would say elected officals and appointments.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:28 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

 redflag  redflag  redflag 

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
All government employees from the President on down shall retire onto Social Security, plus any personal assets such as IRAs. (that should fix Social Security!)

 checkmark 

. . .

Dissolve the IRS and begin collecting a flat tax . . .

All persons of legal age (18+) must serve at least two years in service to their country. Be that as a member of the military, civil service, peace corps, etc.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
avek00
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:28 am

My amendment:

1. A globally competitive labor market being necessary for the national welfare, the Thirteenth Amendment is hereby repealed.

2. All persons, upon attaining eighteen years of age, must perform two years of national service within the armed forces, civilian government, or civic programs as designated by the Congress.

3. Any person, having been found guilty by a competent jury of executing, aiding, abetting, or conspiring to execute a terrorist attack, shall be put to death.
Live life to the fullest.
 
FlyVirgin744
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:54 am

I'm not sure how to put it in words, but I think there should be amendment to limit Federal spending when the country is this much in debt. I consider the country's debt to be our largest problem. I mean do we really need to be spending over 400 billion on defense? Thats way more than twice of any other country. (just one example)

And i disagree with the minimum wage amendments mentioned above. People who are on minimum wage are most likely on it for a reason, and a minimum wage is a price floor which may actually be bad for the economy. Who knows what the real minimum wage should be. I worked in high school making 5.15, now I'm interning at an engineering company for the summer making $10, why should someone bagging at a grocer make as much me? I'm somewhat fiscally conservative and don't mean to sound harsh.
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Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
Section 2. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

And you say you're for freedom and democracy, by bringing back the "smoke-filled room", this time for Congress?

Go find another country to do that to, bub. Talk about a waste.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
All persons of legal age (18+) must serve at least two years in service to their country. Be that as a member of the military, civil service, peace corps, etc.

A permanent draft? Sorry, I'm not for that. You cannot legislate loyalty to the country.

-Repeal the 22nd Amendment. We can have Congressmen and Senators in Washington forever, why do we limit the presidency, especially if we think he/she is doing a good job. This amendment was put in for partisian reasons, and should be removed.

Besides, the best "term limit" is the ballot box.

-Federally elected officials do not receive a pay raise unless the minimum wage is also raised.

-Amend the constitution so that the IRS cannot not make its' own laws. Supossedly only Congress can make law, but the IRS makes it's own all the time. If you're going to have an IRS, strip it of the ability to make it's own laws.
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b757300
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:11 am

Gee, our resident "moderate" thinks less power to the states is a bad idea. Why am I not surprised.  Yeah sure

Then again, just another person I would rather have disagree with me most of the time.
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tbar220
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 10):
1. A globally competitive labor market being necessary for the national welfare, the Thirteenth Amendment is hereby repealed.

Uhhh, are you serious?? I really hope this is a joke...
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ANCFlyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 13):
Gee, our resident "moderate" thinks less power to the states is a bad idea.

Nope, I'm not an advocate of less power to the voters - having your Federal Senators picked by the State Senators . . . holy shit . . . certainly not in Alaska thank you. You want OUR Alaska legislators to pick our Federal representation?!! LMFAO! Those idiots in uneau couldn't pick their nose - much less a Senator.

I'll stick to voting -
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constituti

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
that takes care of the gay marriage/civil union debate

How exactly?

I mean, let's be real here.... how many 18yr-olds do you know (or hell, how many gay [males] in general) that even know who they wanna spend the next 6weeks with, much less the next 60yrs+ ???
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avek00
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:34 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 14):
Quoting Avek00 (Reply 10):
1. A globally competitive labor market being necessary for the national welfare, the Thirteenth Amendment is hereby repealed.

Uhhh, are you serious?? I really hope this is a joke...

Laws like the Thirteenth Amendment cause American labor to be cost-uncompetitive with other workers in the global marketplace.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 13):
Gee, our resident "moderate" thinks less power to the states is a bad idea. Why am I not surprised.

You'll find a lot of resident moderates, liberals and conservatives bashing your idea, B757300. You REALLY would take the vote away from the people, and give it to a bunch of usually backward, small-minded state legislators?

I could ask why, but I know the reason-because a majority of state legislatures are controlled by the right-far more to the right than your average Senator is today, even Republican ones. This would give you your dream of having legislators that approach the Taliban in their extremism to control this nation.

You'll find the reaming of your idea goes across party lines, my friend. Think about that for a few.
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ltbewr
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:41 am

Mine would be to limit, by a maximum age or a fixed term of years, the service of all Federal Judges. Judges on all levels in many states are required to retire from being a judge usually at their 70th birthday or a similar age.
Option 1
1) The term of all Federal Judges other that Chief or Associate members of the Supreme Court his amendment will conclude within 60 days of attaining their their 75th birthday.
2) The term of all members of the Supreme Court will conclude on July 15th after their 75th birthday.
Option 2
1) The term of all Federal Judges other than Chief or Associate members of the Supreme Court shall not exceed ---- (15?) years.
2) The term of all members of the Supreme Court is fixed at ___ (20?) years.
Both options
3) This amendment will be effective as to all Federal Judges appointed 60 days after the effective date of this amendment.

My amendment would prevent the extended terms of judges to the point where they have a high probablility of dying as they advance in years, would practicaly mean every full term President during their term, will have an opportunity to appoint 1 or more Supreme Court Judges. It would still have a high level of term or age to assure continunity of service, judical independence, yet allow a refreshing of courts to better reflect an evolving society.
 
tbar220
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
Laws like the Thirteenth Amendment cause American labor to be cost-uncompetitive with other workers in the global marketplace.

I fail to see your logic. I need you to explain it to me. Here is the text of the thirteenth amendment.

Amendment XIII

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
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TedTAce
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 13):
Gee, our resident "moderate" thinks less power to the states is a bad idea. Why am I not surprised.

Gee our resident Republican SHILL makes it known that he only knows how to takes shots at people and not logically defend his point of view.. I'm Stunned!!!  Yeah sure
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N1120A
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Dissolve the IRS and begin collecting a flat tax . . .

So taxes can be regressive? I don't think so

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
All persons of legal age (18+) must serve at least two years in service to their country. Be that as a member of the military, civil service, peace corps, etc

No, I give service to my country by being a productive member of society and paying taxes, not by being forced into some schlep job

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 10):
1. A globally competitive labor market being necessary for the national welfare, the Thirteenth Amendment is hereby repealed.

You have got to be kidding me

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 10):
3. Any person, having been found guilty by a competent jury of executing, aiding, abetting, or conspiring to execute a terrorist attack, shall be put to death.

Cruel and unusual punishment and completely against the ideals of constitutionalism

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
This amendment was put in for partisian reasons,

Actually, it was more a knee jerk reaction to Rosevelt's death in office

Quoting B757300 (Reply 13):
Gee, our resident "moderate" thinks less power to the states is a bad idea.

Repealing the 17th Amendment would give LESS power to the states and the people and MORE power to government. A lot of people, particularly ones like you, seem to forget the second part of the 10th Amendment (an Amendment, BTW, which has been modified greatly by later ones). Also, while I think John is a good guy, he is no moderate

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
Laws like the Thirteenth Amendment cause American labor to be cost-uncompetitive with other workers in the global marketplace.

And I am sure you would be the first to volunteer for it Earl, seeing as you would have had a pretty good chance of being a slave yourself
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N1120A
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:02 am

Anyway, my amendments to the Constitution.

Amendment XXVIII: The death penalty as a sentence for any and all crimes is hereby deemed cruel and unusual punishment and not allowed throughout the United States

Amendment XXIX: As already implied within this Constitution, a right to privacy is specifically iterated to exist within the United States. This includes rights of privacy within one's own home as well as the right to full control over one's own body

Amendment XXX: The Equal Rights Amendment. This Amendment shall apply to all persons within the United States, including those of any race, creed, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity and any and all defining characteristics.
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Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Actually, it was more a knee jerk reaction to Rosevelt's death in office

Actually, it was more a knee-jerk reaction to FDR beating the shit out of the GOP in 4 straight elections.  Big grin
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airtran737
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:14 am

1. A man's/woman's property is his/hers, cut and dry. The government cannot take it based on emanate domain.

2. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions are legal, but gay marriage won't be.

3. Legal drinking age will be 18 years old for active members of our armed services. If you can fight and die for your country, you should be able to have a beer in it.

4. The death penalty process will be streamlined. Upon a conviction an inmate will be granted two appeals, or five years whichever comes first. Upon receiving the two appeals, or five years time if he/she has not had his/her conviction overturned, the state will exterminate them in a manner as they see fit. If an inmate wishes, he/she may waive the five year/two appeals process and take the death penalty A.S.A.P.
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PA110
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:15 am

Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.
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TedTAce
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:17 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
to full control over one's own body

bad verbiage... This could be what the anti abortion lobby jumps on as a mudying of the waters... Mother controls her body, but the fetus doesn't?? Whose rights are you talking about here??? And IN CASE you are pro chioce why let mothers kill their children, yet revoke the death penality? Are both acts not in one sense or another a person killing another? Oh I know you going to use the semantics of a fetus isin't alive versus someone who has been living whatever...my answer pro death is pro death and pro life is pro life PERIOD.. Say religion once and I'll laugh you out of this thread. PS. I'm pro death across the board, in the case of con's: DNA evidence or substantive evidence other then witness testimony is required.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
No, I give service to my country by being a productive member of society and paying taxes, not by being forced into some schlep job

Not denying that . . . doesn't have to be something out of the country - or even out of your town . . . cumpulsory civil service - doing time at a retirement home, cleaning/delittering public streets, public service at a half way house - that's where I'm going. . . .

Seems to me everyone - literally - expects a lot of something for nothing. I don't begrudge anyone their share - or more - if they work for it, but those that give nothing back - or worse yet, give nothing back and bitch about those that do - piss me off. . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 26):
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.

THANK YOU!!!!!!
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N1120A
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:23 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):
Say religion once and I'll laugh you out of this thread.

My stance on religion is very well known

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):
This could be what the anti abortion lobby jumps on as a mudying of the waters...

Not at all

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):
Mother controls her body, but the fetus doesn't??

A fetus does not have a body to control

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):
And IN CASE you are pro chioce why let mothers kill their children, yet revoke the death penality?

They are not killing children

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):
Are both acts not in one sense or another a person killing another?

No, they are not
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tbar220
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:25 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 28):
Not denying that . . . doesn't have to be something out of the country - or even out of your town . . . cumpulsory civil service - doing time at a retirement home, cleaning/delittering public streets, public service at a half way house - that's where I'm going. . . .

Are you saying something similar to community service? For two years?
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searpqx
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 25):
2. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions are legal, but gay marriage won't be.



Quoting PA110 (Reply 26):
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.

The moment we start using the constitution to deny rights we're heading the wrong way. I don't believe the second amendment gives every Tom, Dick & Harry the right to an AK-47, or even a .22, but I sure as hell don't want to write a ban on gun ownership into the constitution.

As for gay marriage, we've had plenty of threads on that, I'll just say again, the constitution was meant as a document to declare and define rights, not ban them.

Duane
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
allstarflyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
If you had it your way, what one realistically plausible amendment would you add or subtract to/from the USA Constitution?

Good thread-starter.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Any unused funds will be returned to the PEOPLE of the United States of America.

I'm not laughing at you, Ted, because that's a valid remark, but the phrase "unused funds" will never be considered among our legislators.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
Make the 2nd amendment apply to the states.

Hmm. I like that.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Dissolve the IRS and begin collecting a flat tax . . .
Bingo. Bullseye. For that, the long-overdue addition to the RR list.  thumbsup  An operational-tax would make more sense, at the least from its description, rather than the income-tax.
All persons of legal age (18+) must serve at least two years in service to their country. Be that as a member of the military, civil service, peace corps, etc.



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 10):
2. All persons, upon attaining eighteen years of age, must perform two years of national service within the armed forces, civilian government, or civic programs as designated by the Congress.

3. Any person, having been found guilty by a competent jury of executing, aiding, abetting, or conspiring to execute a terrorist attack, shall be put to death.

I'm all about citizens serving this country (especially in the military), yet, Falcon's right in one way - you couldn't "legislate loyalty" - although, I don't think most Americans would mind so much anyway (at least I wouldn't). I'm all for your 3rd point, Avek.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Repeal the 22nd Amendment. We can have Congressmen and Senators in Washington forever, why do we limit the presidency, especially if we think he/she is doing a good job. This amendment was put in for partisian reasons, and should be removed.

Reverse that. Regardless of checks and balances, term limits keep a President (in my opinion) from gaining (or perhaps quietly usurping) too much power (which could happen - we're all human), and, with the kind of power these guys have (and, at times, abuse), I don't mind checking them with term limits.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Besides, the best "term limit" is the ballot box.

You are so almost dead on. One reason that plenty of legislators get re-elected so much is because the field is so narrow in the voting process. The 2-party system rules out (which I don't like - we are so diverse a country, and we only have a 2-party system?!?!  redflag  ). Because the number of quality candidates is so few in number (due to, what I consider to be, the overpowering influence of the 2 parties to dissuade having 3 or more parties), we quite often are presented with having to choose between the lesser of two evils. I don't like the fact that a qualified candidate would have to be written-in when that person's name (along with a few others from legitimate political parties) should be available for viewing along with the other candidates.

What would I change?

First, I'd emphasize the importance of this one:

-Amendment X - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


I'd change the wording on this one, only by one word:

-Amendment II - Right to bear arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Stick the word "and" after the 2nd comma - some people would construe that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" only means while being part of a Militia (or while in service in the military), and not an individual freedom.

I'd definitely change this one:

-Section 5 - Membership, Rules, Journals

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings


. . . because it leads to abuse of things like this:

-Amendment XXVII - Congressional pay increases. Ratified 5/7/1992.

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened


-R
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Cadet985
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:38 am

I would add the following amendments:

1. ALL immigrants, within 5 years of moving to the United States MUST read, write, and speak English FLUENTLY. If this requirement is not met, said immigrant(s) shall be deported.

2. Immigrants who enter the United States ILLEGALLY for any reason, have NO legal rights, and are not protected by the Constitution.

3. In government-funded schools, there would be no "Black History Month." This would be replaced by "Multicultural History Month." I see no reason why we have to just focus on the contributions of African Americans. Why not teach about the contributions of Asians, Latinos, etc?

4. Legal drinking age is 18. At 18, I can be charged as an adult for comitting a crime, I can die for my country, so I should be able to drink.

5. Death penalty would be streamlined and reformed. No more being on death row 20 years. A person sentenced to death gets two appeals. When the time comes for them to be put to death, the person shall die in the same manner as the person they killed.

Although many people have aiready said it, I would also require every citizen to do a minumum of two years of federal service - military, peace corps, etc.

Marc
 
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PA110
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 33):
some people would construe that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" only means while being part of a Militia (or while in service in the military)

That's absolutely the way it should be. This was pased in 1791, a very different time and place to today's modern world. The United States was barely a country, and did not yet have a permanent standing army. Instead, it relied on citizen militias for defense against foreign enemies and for protection along the wild frontier. We no longer have a wild frontier, and foreign attacks now come in ways our founders would have never dreamed. There is absolutely no justification for a civil society to continue to bear arms.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
1. ALL immigrants, within 5 years of moving to the United States MUST read, write, and speak English FLUENTLY. If this requirement is not met, said immigrant(s) shall be deported.

Seig heil when you say that, dude. And who judges what "fluently" is, man? The Republican party?

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
Although many people have aiready said it, I would also require every citizen to do a minumum of two years of federal service - military, peace corps, etc.

Bad idea. You should not force anyone to do something like that, unless they really want it.

But then again, this is conservativism at it's worst, on both those points, far as I can see.
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allstarflyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
I would add the following amendments:

1. ALL immigrants, within 5 years of moving to the United States MUST read, write, and speak English FLUENTLY. If this requirement is not met, said immigrant(s) shall be deported.

2. Immigrants who enter the United States ILLEGALLY for any reason, have NO legal rights, and are not protected by the Constitution.

3. In government-funded schools, there would be no "Black History Month." This would be replaced by "Multicultural History Month." I see no reason why we have to just focus on the contributions of African Americans. Why not teach about the contributions of Asians, Latinos, etc?

4. Legal drinking age is 18. At 18, I can be charged as an adult for comitting a crime, I can die for my country, so I should be able to drink.

5. Death penalty would be streamlined and reformed. No more being on death row 20 years. A person sentenced to death gets two appeals. When the time comes for them to be put to death, the person shall die in the same manner as the person they killed.

Although many people have aiready said it, I would also require every citizen to do a minumum of two years of federal service - military, peace corps, etc.

  
I'd go light on that deportation, stuff, though.
Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 25):
1. A man's/woman's property is his/hers, cut and dry. The government cannot take it based on emanate domain.

2. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions are legal, but gay marriage won't be.


3. Legal drinking age will be 18 years old for active members of our armed services. If you can fight and die for your country, you should be able to have a beer in it.

4. The death penalty process will be streamlined. Upon a conviction an inmate will be granted two appeals, or five years whichever comes first. Upon receiving the two appeals, or five years time if he/she has not had his/her conviction overturned, the state will exterminate them in a manner as they see fit. If an inmate wishes, he/she may waive the five year/two appeals process and take the death penalty A.S.A.P.

I'd just keep the 1st part of the 2nd point for you, AirTran737.   

Quoting PA110 (Reply 26):
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.

PA110, you so flunked on that one. You would have no reason to fear coming around my house (unless you're a criminal), with my military-grade cache of weapons (I wish    ).

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 33):
Amendment II - Right to bear arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Stick the word "and" after the 2nd comma - some people would construe that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" only means while being part of a Militia (or while in service in the military), and not an individual freedom.

     

Edited for additional content.

-R

[Edited 2005-07-24 04:48:06]
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Cadet985
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36):
And who judges what "fluently" is, man? The Republican party?

The way I see it, a person who is fluent in English can read, write, and speak it with little difficulty.
 
allstarflyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
Quoting PA110 (Reply 26):
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Hey, it's cool if you come around my place, too, Falcon.  biggrin 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:47 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 31):
Are you saying something similar to community service? For two years?

Yes, Community Service or Military . . . pick something . . . just serve your country for a couple years . . . before you go out and try to rape it for everything you can get . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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PA110
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 37):
PA110, you so flunked on that one. You would have no reason to fear coming around my house (unless you're a criminal), with my military-grade cache of weapons

I can only say, you wouldn't need that cache of weapons for protection if guns were restricted to law enforcement and armed services. Again, despite how Amendment II actually reads, there is considerably constitutional debate over the intent of the framers. I don't think they ever intended individual citizens to continue bearing arms, once the nation had secured its borders and built a permanent standing armed forces.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
N1120A
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
1. ALL immigrants, within 5 years of moving to the United States MUST read, write, and speak English FLUENTLY. If this requirement is not met, said immigrant(s) shall be deported.

And while we are at it, I agree with Avek00's proposal to repeal the 13th Amendment.

Signed,
Cadet985

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
2. Immigrants who enter the United States ILLEGALLY for any reason, have NO legal rights, and are not protected by the Constitution.

Which goes against what is specifically said in the Articles of the Constitution.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
5. Death penalty would be streamlined and reformed. No more being on death row 20 years. A person sentenced to death gets two appeals. When the time comes for them to be put to death, the person shall die in the same manner as the person they killed.

The Constitution is a document of negative liberties and civil rights, not a regulatory code. It also protects against cruel and unusual punishment, which if we include murder as a crime punishable, then we must think that it is cruel and unusual. Beyond that, a person gets at least 3 appellate levels anyway (state appeals court, state supreme court, Supreme Court of the United States). Also, you expressly go against the 4th amendment protections of due process.
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airtran737
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
There is absolutely no justification for a civil society to continue to bear arms.

Why is that? I like to hunt deer, and various other animals. I am also a member of three gun clubs where I shoot trap & skeet. I am civilized, I can't remember the last time that I flung my feces like some sort of primate. I have the right to own a firearm(s), and I don't see any reason why I should give that up. I have no criminal record, and am considered a good citizen, so why shouldn't I be allowed to own a gun?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 38):
The way I see it, a person who is fluent in English can read, write, and speak it with little difficulty.

You dodged the question: by who's standards ais this measured? Yours? Mine? Our standards may be different. It's not that easy, and you know it.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 40):
just serve your country for a couple years

I do, I think-by raising my kids, paying taxes, being a good citizen. I don't see the need to serve any more if I don't choose to, my friend.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 26):
Amendment II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right to bear arms shall be limited to law enforcement and national armed services.

 redflag  redflag  redflag 

PA110 - While I refuse to get in to a Gun Control debate - it's fruitless - you haven't got a clue really . . .

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
We no longer have a wild frontier,

You ain't never been up here have ya? Nuff Said.  sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Cadet985
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
1. ALL immigrants, within 5 years of moving to the United States MUST read, write, and speak English FLUENTLY. If this requirement is not met, said immigrant(s) shall be deported.

And while we are at it, I agree with Avek00's proposal to repeal the 13th Amendment.

Signed,
Cadet985

Where in my reply do you see any allusion to slavery? I'm not talking about forcing these people to work on a farm or something. If they can't learn the language in a certain amount of time, they need to go. I have friends from other countries (India, Germany, FRANCE, among others) who tell me that if I were to move to their country, and not learn the language, that I could not function in society. Well, neither can these people that refuse to learn English.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
Instead, it relied on citizen militias for defense against foreign enemies and for protection along the wild frontier

Made up of individuals who shared the common ideas of protecting their homes and realized the most efficient way to do such would be for each individual to maintain their own arms.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
We no longer have a wild frontier, and foreign attacks now come in ways our founders would have never dreamed.

You fail to credit their foresight in this manner. These are the same guys that feared having an all-powerful government (evidenced through checks and balances) which could, potentially, someday menace its own citizenry (like Britain was doing through its use of taxation w/o representation). It's a great way to keep an overgrown federal government at bay. Would you care for me to point out from history an example of a government that took away firearms from its citizens?

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
There is absolutely no justification for a civil society to continue to bear arms.

If an illegally-armed criminal is on his way through my house, law enforcement simply doesn't have enough time to help me. A simple argument for home-defense by itself is justification enough.

Edited for grammar.

-R

[Edited 2005-07-24 04:58:59]
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airtran737
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:57 am

I think that in order to live in this country you should have to pass a citizenship test. You need to know a basic history of America, who your state senators are, your governor, the branches of the government and their duties. And most importantly Americans must fulfill their civic duty and vote. How many of you who are reading this voted in the 2004 election? Be honest. I voted. I try to vote in every election that I can. Do you all do the same?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: What Would Be Your Amendment To The Constitution?

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 48):
I think that in order to live in this country you should have to pass a citizenship test. You need to know a basic history of America, who your state senators are, your governor, the branches of the government and their duties. And most importantly Americans must fulfill their civic duty and vote. How many of you who are reading this voted in the 2004 election? Be honest. I voted. I try to vote in every election that I can. Do you all do the same?

Do that, man, and you'd have to throw out 160 million people BORN AND RAISED in this country.

Forget it, it won't work. It's not even practical.
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