747400sp
Topic Author
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Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:07 am

Nissan has the Maxima and Toyota has the Avalon why Honda has no car to fight them. A scaled down Honda version of the Acura RL would make the perfect car to go against the Nissan Maxima and theToyoda Avalon. The V6 in RL can be tune down and compete with the 265 hp V6 in the Maxima and the 280 hp in the new Avalon. I know Honda has there reason, but I see it as a miss opportunity.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:45 am

Because Honda is a useless car, that's why. They spend all their time trying to market it as a complete gas saver...you'll never see a honda with more horsepower than it needs..no fun in fuel savings. Any honda I've ever driven was a gas sipping, 0-60 in 2.5 days, busch-league piece of highschool-grade junk. Just my .02 though.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:51 am

VROOM !! VROOM !!

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
ltbewr
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:00 am

They don't need a separate car, they already have the Accord as their flagship car. If you want more luxury and preformance, then go to the Acura line. that is just like the American car business, you had the Chevy for the basic customer with Olds, Buick and then Caddy for the better off customers.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:04 am

The interesting thing about Honda is that the Accord sold in Europe is always different then the one sold in North America, at least the sedan model is. The current European Accord is sold in North America as the Acura TSX, go figure.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:06 am

um, what about the Accord? I would venture to say that is their "flagship" car. I don't know much about the brand but the Accord certainly looks like a decent car that can compete with all the others in that class.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
If you want more luxury and preformance, then go to the Acura line.

EXACTLY! Although, you can get some luxury with the Accord but obviously less priced than the Acura RL.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:24 am

The Honda S2000 is a hell of a car. 2.0 Liter 240 HP VTEC, 6-speed manual gearbox, Digital guages, ect. This car will flat out fly! It makes you feel like your in a fighter jet.

-Delta767300ER
 
747400sp
Topic Author
Posts: 3845
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:01 am

Not to put down the Accord because I drive one. But it compete with the Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry.




PS: The Altima maybe a little more fun to drive than a Accord but the Camry is just boring.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:27 am

Screw Honda, buy a Dodge, maybe the Charger, preferably with a Hemi!!!!!!!!
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4308
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:34 am

Yet Honda can still kick Chevy's (Cosworth) ass in the IRL........

[Edited 2005-07-31 04:34:40]
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:09 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

Nissan has the Maxima and Toyota has the Avalon why Honda has no car to fight them. A scaled down Honda version of the Acura RL would make the perfect car to go against the Nissan Maxima and theToyoda Avalon.

Honda, by marketing its Acura division to not only the high (like Lexus) but also the medium level market, has killed the Honda marque's need for a top level car in the US. Remember too, the Maxima has always been targeted more at sport sedan buyers, while the Avalon and the much lamented Cressida are square at the Buick-buying public

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
The V6 in RL can be tune down and compete with the 265 hp V6 in the Maxima and the 280 hp in the new Avalon.

They would need to uprate the engine in that case, not derate it
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2054
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
A scaled down Honda version of the Acura RL would make the perfect car to go against the Nissan Maxima and theToyoda Avalon.

They do it's called the Acura TL. And it whips the Maxima. You can even get it with a 6 speed.

Toyota only sold a little over 37,000 Avalons in 2004, down from about 51,000 in 03. Nissan has been struggling with the Maxima also, as you can tell by the $1500 rebate they are offering on them.

For 2006 the Accord V6 is rated at 250hp (up 10 from 05) and both the sedan and coupe are available with a 6speed manual. They will also feature the most technologically advanced navigation system in their class. IMHO the Accord fills a huge spectrum of the market. From the 18,000 Value Package to the $32,000 Hybrid.

Matt
 
jacobin777
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:41 pm

here's their flagship car... bigthumbsup 

"Up the Irons!"
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:55 pm

Because Honda is a useless car, that's why.

What a useless comment. Honda kicks GM's ass in the reliability, depreciation and build quality is concerned, which hardly makes it useless.


Honda, by marketing its Acura division to not only the high (like Lexus) but also the medium level market, has killed the Honda marque's need for a top level car in the US.

Not always true, VW has made a niche (abliet quite small) for the Phaeton.

[Edited 2005-07-31 06:00:02]
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 13):

What a useless comment. Honda kicks GM's ass in the reliability, depreciation and build quality is concerned, which hardly makes it useless.

Dont you have a BMW to crash or get tickets in?


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:59 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 13):
What a useless comment. Honda kicks GM's ass in the reliability, depreciation and build quality is concerned, which hardly makes it useless.

Absolutly, Honda's are fantastic. I've had a Civic and an Accord and never had a single problem with them. I had a Pontiac Sunbird and it was literly in the garage getting fixed every other weekend.
My parents have have had 2 Buicks, nothing but problems. And are now very happy with their Accord.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 13):
Not always true, VW has made a niche (abliet quite small) for the Phaeton.

Very, very, very, very small niche. Personally I think they should have given the car and Audi badge. As good as the Phaeton is, and I'm sure it's worth every penny, but $66,000 is waaaaaaaay too much for a VW.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 11):
They do it's called the Acura TL. And it whips the Maxima. You can even get it with a 6 speed.

As you can with the Maxima
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 15):
Very, very, very, very small niche. Personally I think they should have given the car and Audi badge. As good as the Phaeton is, and I'm sure it's worth every penny, but $66,000 is waaaaaaaay too much for a VW.

Ditto for the British market, but replacing the dollar sign with a pound sign. Now that's too much for a VW A8!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 1):
Because Honda is a useless car, that's why.

people could say whatever they want..but there is a reason why Honda has had record earnings and GM's debt rating is JUNK..JUNK, JUNK, JUNK!!


did I mention that GM's debt rating is JUNK?  spin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:39 am

Dont you have a BMW to crash or get tickets in?

How about you say nothing if you don't have something productive to say?
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 19):
How about you say nothing if you don't have something productive to say?

that would be the end of the non-aviation forum!!!!!!!
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
did I mention that GM's debt rating is JUNK?

Not to mention almost every vehicle that they make. I once had the opportunity to get a ride in GM's "flagship" SUV, the Cadillac Escalade, and for a vehicle that cost almost CDN$110,000, I was dismayed to see more plastic trim than in an econobox. Also, the fit and finish of the interior reminded you that you are in fact driving a truck and not a vehicle passed off as a luxury car.

And don't get me even started on GM's mid-sized and econoboxes...they are poorly made, butt-ugly and very unreliable. Christ, my 18 year old VW is more reliable than some of these cars.

The only cars that GM produces that I can tolerate are the GTO (we don't get it here in Canada, the current model is done next year, and they're gonna screw it up in 2008 anyways by making it into a 4-door coupe...let's see how bad GM makes it), and the C6.

Now, as far as I'm concerned, when you buy a Honda (and to a lesser extent, Toyota), you are getting far superior automobile in all aspects. Even GM will admit it...their new ad campaign for their trucks says it all..."There's no Japanese word for pick-up truck". Now why would they be spreading FUD if they had a better product than the Nissan Titan or the Toyota Tundra?
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2733
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:44 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 1):
Because Honda is a useless car, that's why

Right......

Civic Type R..... S2000...... NSX....... Accord Type R.......

I had the pleasure of travelling about 1000 miles in an NSX recently and i can say that it was everything but useless! 194mph in a Honda is sure not useless! Fapping fun as heck i would say! Big grin

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:52 am

Now why would they be spreading FUD if they had a better product than the Nissan Titan or the Toyota Tundra?

I think Ford and GM should be embarrassed that the newcomer to the market, the Honda Ridgeline beat out their offerings in the big auto mags, even though they have been in the market for decades.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9470
 
AmericanMD80
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 12:44 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 1):
Because Honda is a useless car, that's why. They spend all their time trying to market it as a complete gas saver...you'll never see a honda with more horsepower than it needs..no fun in fuel savings. Any honda I've ever driven was a gas sipping, 0-60 in 2.5 days, busch-league piece of highschool-grade junk. Just my .02 though.

I guess you've never had the pleasure of driving one with one of their smooth, very responsive V6's. I drive a 97 Civic with 104,000 miles on it. Never a single problem. I love getting great gas mileage. My friends have had nothing but problems with the their GM's.

Accord's kick ass. But it is dissapointing that they put all the luxury emphasis on Acura.

Cannot wait to see the 2006 Civic. I hear we're getting Navi available in it. Moving up market.

VTEC 4 EVER!

//americanmd80

[Edited 2005-08-01 00:25:16]
do what you like . like what you do . life is good
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:37 am

Im born and raised in Detroit, and as much as I'd like to see the hometown guy do well, I must say that General Motors cars are simply crap. The problem at GM is that theyre too large, with too many lines, and too many products, albeit its pretty much the same car across the entire line (a 3800 V6 mated to an ancient 3 speed automatic). GM, as I said, is too large, and too bulky to compete in the quickly changing automotive world. Theyre saddled with pretty much dated automobiles where more than 1,000 dollars per car goes towards skyrocketing pension and healtcare costs for retirees and those party to an enormously bloated union contract.

The company is beginning to crumble under the crushing weight of itself, and its past decisions, due to its lack of ability to CHANGE and produce what the consumer wants... The Aztek wasnt it, the rehash of the minivans isnt it (Uplander, Montana SV6, Terrazza, etc.), the GTO wasnt it, the retro-styled Chevy HHR isnt looking to be it, etc etc...

Honda builds what people want.. Fuel efficient, sharply designed, smartly equipped, BULLETPROOF reliable cars and trucks. We owned 2 Acuras (2000 3.0CL and 2002 3.2TL) and those cars were absolutely bulletproof, with fantastic performance.

Again, GM just cant do it... They dont have a handle on the market. Chrysler is doing it with their fire-breathing HEMI and excellent retro styling that is tasteful. Ford is doing it with more reliable, smarter designed cars, trucks and SUV's... Why? Because theyre lean and streamlined manufacturers. They bit the bullet and its paying off.
N/A
 
ACDC8
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RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:19 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 21):
Not to mention almost every vehicle that they make. I once had the opportunity to get a ride in GM's "flagship" SUV, the Cadillac Escalade, and for a vehicle that cost almost CDN$110,000, I was dismayed to see more plastic trim than in an econobox. Also, the fit and finish of the interior reminded you that you are in fact driving a truck and not a vehicle passed off as a luxury car.

I sat in one of their STS's, priced at about CDN$70,000. The amount of the absolute cheapest plastic I've ever seen in my life filled every nook and cranny in that car! You can get a Hyundai Accent for under CDN$10,000 and it has better material put into it.

And as far as the GTO is concerned, this is supposed to be GM's answer to Ford's Mustang? Sure it may have somewhat better performance but the thing looks like a bloody Grand Am!  vomit 

Honda's are by far some of the best cars that money can buy, and that's the reality of it.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
slider
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 23):
I think Ford and GM should be embarrassed that the newcomer to the market, the Honda Ridgeline beat out their offerings in the big auto mags, even though they have been in the market for decades.

Good point- Honda's FIRST TRUCK with the largest engine they've ever built and they knock the ball out of the park. Home run at first swing at the plate.

I used to be a "buy American" guy, but after having tons of issues with every single GM, Ford, or Dodge/Chrysler car I've owned, never again.

I had a Mazda MX-6 that was invincible. Should've learned when I bought the POS Intrepid that ended up becoming a paperweight because of the infamous 2.7L engine oil sludge problem.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
They don't need a separate car, they already have the Accord as their flagship car.

When I first met my wife, she had an '85 Accord. Nicest car I've ever gotten to drive. Power everything; quite; smooth; who gives a shit if it can't go 0-60 in .5 seconds? I loved it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:12 am

Quote:
Asuflyer05 - They do it's called the Acura TL. And it whips the Maxima. You can even get it with a 6 speed.

I have a TL with a manual transmission. It corners like a monster, and it not only whips the Maxima, but holds its own with the BMW 5 series. When I lose a stoplight start to a Bimmer, I at least have the pleasure of knowing Mr. Bimmer driver spent at least 10 grand more than I did.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AmericanMD80
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 12:44 am

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:29 am

I currently have this as my desktop background.

It's my favorite design from Honda. I want this car so bad!

http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/images/gallery/800_10410_10730_02.jpg
http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/images/gallery/800_10410_10730_03.jpg
http://www.honda.co.uk/newcars/images/gallery/800_10410_10730_01.jpg

I wish I had the money so I could even consider the U.S. version (The TSX.)

Very excited to see what Honda has on the plate for 2006. A more than minor MMC for the Accord and a completely new Civic. Can't wait for Honda to kick some ass.

Joe
//americanmd80
do what you like . like what you do . life is good
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:22 pm

I've always been a GM guy but their are only a few of their vehicles I like. Of course I like the Camaro/Firebirds (Hope they start em up again sometime), Corvettes, and their truck line. However I think most of their cars/suv's are crap.

Honda makes very reliable cars. I have had several friends that drove Honda's and they didnt have any major problems at all. The only thing I dont like about Honda's are these little punk teenage kids putting the big ass wings, chrome rims, Japaneese racing stickers, and those shitty sounding coffee can exhausts on them (However you can do that to a Cavalier).

Take a look at the Acrua TL, RSX, NSX and the Honda S2000 before you diss Honda.

-Delta767300ER
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 31):
Of course I like the Camaro/Firebirds (Hope they start em up again sometime)

Would be nice if GM would bring them back in 2007 (40th anniversary). If GM was smart, they'd get the styling right for once and give us Mustang owners a run for our money.  Wink
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:42 pm

ACDC8, Yes it would be great. I liked the 1st/2nd/4th Generation F-Bodies but I think its time to go slightly retro.

If they decide to return, I hope they do the following rumored design

I'm hoping they will have an LS2 V8 option as well as true dual exhaust. I spend $1,400 on my 98 Z28 M6 for true duals (Hooker LT's, 2.5", X-Pipe, No cats, Flowmaster 1-Chambers dumped).

What year is your Stang?

-Delta767300ER
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Honda Why No Flagship Car.

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 33):
If they decide to return, I hope they do the following rumored design

That's what I'd like to see as well. '68 Camaro is my absolute dream car.

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 33):
I spend $1,400 on my 98 Z28 M6 for true duals (Hooker LT's, 2.5", X-Pipe, No cats, Flowmaster 1-Chambers dumped).

Sweet!  Smile Mine is stock ...  Sad

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 33):
What year is your Stang?

2000 GT.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut

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