TWFirst
Topic Author
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Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:18 am

- San Francisco is further south than New York.
- Denver is further south than New York.
- Chicago if further north than New York.
- Portland, OR is further north than Minneapolis.
- San Francisco is further south than Washington DC.
- Pittsburgh is due north of Miami.
- Los Angeles is further south than Nashville.

- Madrid, Spain is further north than Philadelphia.
- Athens, Greece is further north than Nashville.


And there are many other geographical examples that make you go "hmmmmmmm".
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:23 am

Yes Apart from the ones about Nashville as I don't really know where it is. Not that hard to figure out if you look at the lines of longitude/latitude on a globe  Wink
 
diamond
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:23 am

I read all of these and thought, "yeah, that sounds right" except for the one about Pittsburgh being due north of Miami.

So I looked it up and sure enough, it is! You learn something every day.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/united_states_pol02.jpg
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TedTAce
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
examples that make you go "hmmmmmmm".

I want to know what EVER made you think it was diferent..

I was reading through your examples and I went.. I knew that, I knew that, I knew that.... what is the guy's point?

I'd like to know why you think those are revelations, I'd like to think that somehow you 'just didn't know'.. 'cause to me they have always been obvious.
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seb146
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I'd like to know why you think those are revelations

I think this post was directed at people that think things like one of the 53 United States is Canada and the capital of Ohio is Chicago and things like that.

These are also interesting facts. They all made sense to me, but still I think things like this are facinating!

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:41 am

How about Los Angeles and San Diego are farther east than Reno Nevada.
Or a flight from Los Angeles to Seattle will take you over Nevada.

Those of us who are pilots and have flown back and forth over this globe have been made aware of some of this. For example when looking at the map of the US in reply #2 I naturally think of the meridians of longitude which converge toward the top as being north-south and the paralells of latitude that show as curves as being east-west. It does still surprise me though, how far north Europe is. Belfast and Copenhagen are about as far north as Ketchikan Alaska.

Another thing I still might have a hard time getting my mind around: I just took off from Rome or Paris headed for a US city. As I turn on course, the straight line to my destination is down between my heels somewhere. The curvature of the earth is somehow easier to grasp to my left or right than it is straight ahead over the horizon.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
diamond
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I want to know what EVER made you think it was diferent..

I was reading through your examples and I went.. I knew that, I knew that, I knew that.... what is the guy's point?

I'd like to know why you think those are revelations, I'd like to think that somehow you 'just didn't know'.. 'cause to me they have always been obvious.

The post makes perfect sense to me. Almost all maps of the US are distorted and made to look "flat" instead of "spherical". It changes the relative position of cities in a major way.
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TWFirst
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I'd like to know why you think those are revelations, I'd like to think that somehow you 'just didn't know'.. 'cause to me they have always been obvious.

And I'd like to know where you learned to spell.

The 'point' is Teddy, that you and I and all the spherically cognizant geekazoids here may know these geographical facts, but many people do not... or at least find the comparisons interesting (as I discovered during a conversation at work today that inspired this thread), due to, among other things:

1) The distortion inherent in 2D representations
2) Geopolitical connotations
3) Associated climate


So, if you are bored to tears with this information, perhaps you should consider participating in a more mentally challenging activity... such as learning to spell... or perhaps reading that great work of fiction known as the bible.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
Those of us who are pilots and have flown back and forth over this globe have been made aware of some of this. For example when looking at the map of the US in reply #2 I naturally think of the meridians of longitude which converge toward the top as being north-south and the paralells of latitude that show as curves as being east-west. It does still surprise me though, how far north Europe is. Belfast and Copenhagen are about as far north as Ketchikan Alaska.

Another thing I still might have a hard time getting my mind around: I just took off from Rome or Paris headed for a US city. As I turn on course, the straight line to my destination is down between my heels somewhere. The curvature of the earth is somehow easier to grasp to my left or right than it is straight ahead over the horizon.

EXACTLY.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Curtisman
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:01 am

Speaking of maps, I bought two of these 'Down Under' maps. They show the South as being up which gives a different perspective of the mercatur projection of a flat map. Check out the size of your country from this view and see if it is different than what you know it as now.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/CurtisMan/DownunderMap.jpg
Citizen of the World
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:08 am

Here are some that always got me.

Point Pelee, Ontario is as far south as Northern California.
Birmingham, Alabama is in the Central time zone, while Thunder Bay, Ontario is in Eastern.
Atlanta is as far east as Detroit.
Houston is about as far west as the Ontario / Manitoba border!

I agree with SlamClick about how far north Europe is. That always boggled me.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
TWFirst
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 9):
Speaking of maps, I bought two of these 'Down Under' maps. They show the South as being up which gives a different perspective of the mercatur projection of a flat map. Check out the size of your country from this view and see if it is different than what you know it as now.

I've seen those before... I think they're fascinating... because our historical designation of "north" and what is "right-side-up" is totally subjective. There is no "up" or "down" in the universe. Our ideas of "north" and "south" are relative to the planet's spin on its poles, but which pole constitutes the "top" pole is totally subjective. We could just as easily designate the South Pole as the "top" axis.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 9):
Speaking of maps, I bought two of these 'Down Under' maps. They show the South as being up which gives a different perspective of the mercatur projection of a flat map.

That map is SO cool! How amazingly different the land mass shapes look in this perspective. Illuminating.

Someone from the southern hemisphere, please tell me that your maps routinely show north UP. I couldn't stand it otherwise!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
diamond
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:20 am

Here is a link to more upside-down maps similar to the one CurtisMan mentioned above:

http://www.flourish.org/upsidedownmap/
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sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 9):
They show the South as being up which gives a different perspective of the mercator projection of a flat map. Check out the size of your country from this view and see if it is different than what you know it as now.

Since a mercator projection is simply made by projecting all points from the earth's surface onto a cilinder put around the globe, the SIZE of the projection will not change whether you have the north up or down.

The only way to get a different SIZE of countries through a mercator projection is to have the cilinder intersect the globe in a different place than along the equator, something NOT done on the map above....
 
cptkrell
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:30 am

I think it's an interesting thread. Although I've considered myself somewhat geographically astute, I was surprised to learn when I moved to Detroit in 1965 that the first country south of DTW is Canada. Still "sounds" funny, no? Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
xpat
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 15):
think it's an interesting thread. Although I've considered myself somewhat geographically astute

...I'm still trying to wrap my head around things such as...

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
How about Los Angeles and San Diego are farther east than Reno Nevada.
Or a flight from Los Angeles to Seattle will take you over Nevada.

I guess I can't "see" this in my minds eye!
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
Curtisman
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 11):
I've seen those before... I think they're fascinating... because our historical designation of "north" and what is "right-side-up" is totally subjective. There is no "up" or "down" in the universe. Our ideas of "north" and "south" are relative to the planet's spin on its poles, but which pole constitutes the "top" pole is totally subjective. We could just as easily designate the South Pole as the "top" axis.

I am no expert but from what I understand, maps started out with East in the up position - hence the term 'orienteering' - orient means east. I don't know if that is fact though.

Regarding locations, last week I was in New Brunswick, Canada and drove north to get into Maine, USA.

CurtisMan
Citizen of the World
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 17):
I am no expert but from what I understand, maps started out with East in the up position - hence the term 'orienteering' - orient means east. I don't know if that is fact though.

Interesting... that makes sense.

And btw, welcome to the Great White North, Curtis!  Wink
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Euclid
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
Someone from the southern hemisphere, please tell me that your maps routinely show north UP. I couldn't stand it otherwise!

Yes, our maps do routinely show North as up. I was born and raised in the Southern Hemisphere and tonight was the first time in my life I've seen one of those Down Under maps.

Regards
 
redngold
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:12 am

Also most maps are centered on the Atlantic Ocean, but you can find a map centered on the Pacific, usually Japanese:

http://www.sdcoe.k12.ca.us/score/grand/worldpacificview.html

[Edited 2005-08-10 22:14:03]
Up, up and away!
 
Curtisman
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:17 am

TWFirst - thanks for the welcome to the Great White North. I have lived in the GWN all my life.  Smile

CurtisMan
Citizen of the World
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:39 am

CurtisMan,

I put your Long/Lat coordinates (from your a.net profile) into an earth viewer and came up with this image. - composed from an altitude of 1000km.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncg...t=1000&daynight=-d&img=nasa-m.evif
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desertjets
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:48 am

The arbitrary nature of what is up and down (north/south) is clearly illustrated by the ancient Egyptians. Where upper Egypt was to the south, and lower Egypt to the north. Certainly this runs contrary to our modern notions of upper and lower, but made absolute sense to the Egyptians as the Nile was the center of their economic and agricultural lives.


And I am another person would could just sit for hours looking at maps, globes, etc....
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
redngold
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 23):
The arbitrary nature of what is up and down (north/south) is clearly illustrated by the ancient Egyptians. Where upper Egypt was to the south, and lower Egypt to the north.

I'm not sure this was only a commercial designation... "Upper" and "lower" also refer to height, and of course upper Egypt is higher in elevation than lower Egypt... Therefore determining the flow of the Nile River...


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Curtisman
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:40 am

Diamond,

The coordinates in my profile are to my local airport. When I open your link and squint my eyes really tight I can see the runway at my airport.

 Wink

Curt
Citizen of the World
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
These are also interesting facts. They all made sense to me, but still I think things like this are facinating!



Quoting TWFirst (Reply 7):
And I'd like to know where you learned to spell.

The 'point' is Teddy, that you and I and all the spherically cognizant geekazoids here may know these geographical facts, but many people do not... or at least find the comparisons interesting (as I discovered during a conversation at work today that inspired this thread), due to, among other things:

1) The distortion inherent in 2D representations
2) Geopolitical connotations
3) Associated climate


So, if you are bored to tears with this information, perhaps you should consider participating in a more mentally challenging activity... such as learning to spell... or perhaps reading that great work of fiction known as the bible.

Dude, Relax. If I was trying to flame you for this I would have said this was a dumb thread.. That's why I questioned your motivation instead of calling you a looser or something to that effect.

Now I that I know you meant to enlighten...

Good info Big grin

PS. I'd rather draw a lifesized map of the earth by hand then read another word of the HATE inspiring bible.
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jasepl
Posts: 3499
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:02 am

Montréal and Milan
Even though one usually thinks of southern Europe whin thinking Milan and CurtisMan's GWN when thinking Montréal, they're at exactly the same latitude.

Bombay and Miami
Though one of my friends was convinced that Bombay is in the southern hemisphere, I can assure him it is not. We're well up north, at nearly the same latitude as Miami!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:13 am

Shit... I always thought Alaska was just off the coast of California. And Hawaii was south of Texas. You guys sure know how to make a guy feel like a total idiot.

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:34 pm

And there are many other geographical examples that make you go "hmmmmmmm".



Detroit is the only city in the Continental US that is North of Canada.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
TWFirst
Topic Author
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 29):
Detroit is the only city in the Continental US that is North of Canada.

That's not true... most of New England is north of parts of Canada.... Buffalo is north of parts of Canada...

Here's another interesting tidbit... the only way to get to Angle Inlet, Minnesota from the rest of Minnesota (and vice versa) is by driving through Canada! (or by taking a boat)
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
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RE: Our Spherical World. Did You Know That...

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 29):
Detroit is the only city in the Continental US that is North of Canada.

I thought it's "the only US city where you can look south into Canada"?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

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