MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:44 pm

From http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance52.html


1. Announce to Iraq that our invasion was a horrible mistake, as was our intervention in the region for the last fifty years. Tell Iraq that we intend to withdraw every American soldier as soon as possible. Apologize for the tens of thousands of Iraqis that were killed by our bullets, bombs, or sanctions.

2. Stop all killing, bombing, patrols, arrests, imprisonments, and interrogations. Maintain a defensive position until exiting the country.

3. Perform the logistics necessary to leave the country. Tell the troops to start packing.

4. Apologize to our troops for sending them to Iraq, and especially our wounded. Apologize to the families of all our soldiers killed in Iraq. Release from confinement all U.S. soldiers imprisoned for refusing to fight, like Sgt. Kevin Benderman.

5. Announce to every country that was a member of our "coalition," and especially to Great Britain, that they made a horrible mistake in following our lead in invading Iraq. Tell them that they should immediately withdraw all their forces from Iraq. Let them know that we intend to withdraw as soon as possible and that if they choose to remain in Iraq then they do so without our protection. The United States should also apologize to every country that it demonized for not supporting our invasion of Iraq.

6. Announce to Iraq that there will be no future military interventions or interference with the government of the country. If the government of Iraq wants to hire former members of the U.S. military to train their military and police forces or contractors to rebuild the country then that is their business. No U.S. troops will be stationed in Iraq to guard Halliburton employees. Americans who work in Iraq will do so at their own risk. Offer to purchase as much oil as Iraq can supply to give the country funds to rebuild its infrastructure.

7. Use every available truck, plane, and ship to get the troops out. Squad by squad, platoon by platoon, company by company, battalion by battalion, squadron by squadron, brigade by brigade, division by division, corps by corps – it doesn’t matter, just get the troops out.



Why not? This seems like a reasonable plan to me, one that would ensure the safety of our troops and get them out. It requires a considerable amount of humility on the part of our national government, however; humility that it and Bush both lack, unfortunately. It would leave Iraq in a mess, but it's already a mess. Iraqis already don't have security, dependable power, clean water, or universally available electricity or gasoline.



http://www.msstate.edu/web/media/detail.php?id=2987

http://www.ur.msstate.edu/news/stories/pix/soldiersb.jpg?6374

During a home football game, three of MSU's returning Iraqi veterans, two of whom are amputees, will be honored during our traditional patriotic show halftime that the Famous Maroon Band performs.

http://www.msstate.edu/org/band/msuflag.JPG

We owe them more than our temporary gratitude. It's time to stop the killing, both of the 1800+ and thousands more casualties on our side, as the aggressors, and of the untold numbers of Iraqi deaths and casualties. This abominable war that never should've happened needs to end, immediately. I think that the above plan is a reasonable one that could actually work. Too bad that Bush, Congress, and so many big-government worshipping Americans have too much hubris to admit their terrible mistakes.

[Edited 2005-08-11 07:45:00]
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:00 pm





Hasn't this shit been beaten to death? There really is more to life than bitching about Bush and Iraq.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:29 pm

A 12-Step Program might be more appropriate.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:39 pm

You should title this thread "Seven Steps for destroying America's international standing"

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Release from confinement all U.S. soldiers imprisoned for refusing to fight, like Sgt. Kevin Benderman.

Is that that numnutz that deserted to Canada....Did they kick him out of their country yet? Him and that other deserter. And no, he should not be released, he committed a crime by not doing a job that he volunteered to take.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3957
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:45 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):


You should title this thread "Seven Steps for destroying America's international standing"

Been published already... Never supported war in Iraq, but I cant say this seven step plan is the right way to go either.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:00 pm

This is what the original post SHOULD say.

-Phil



1. Announce to Iraq that our invasion was a horrible mistake, and give them back Saddam Hussein to pick up where he left off. Apologize for the tens of thousands of Iraqis that were killed by reinstating the public torture and abuse on women that they so rightly deserve to practice. How rude of is to interfere with such ritualistic religious ceremonies!

2. Stop all killing, because murder is turned off with the flick of a switch and if the US leaves, all arab extremists will immediately stop disliking the United States and will take up new hobbies like throwing rocks at women buried up to their neck.

3. Perform the logistics necessary to leave the country. Tell the troops to start packing. Begin a recycling program to collect our empty beer cans. As much as they loved being there, it's time to go!

4. Apologize to our troops for sending them to Iraq, freeing oppressed people was the completely wrong thing to do. What were we thinking?! All those years of liberals calling us heartless and demanding that we start helping other people in the world and we thought that removing one of the world's most ruthless dictators would be a good move. Silly us. Our bad!

5. Announce to every country that was a member of our "coalition," and especially to Great Britain, that they made a horrible mistake in following our lead in invading Iraq. Tell them "Madja look!" and that they should immediately withdraw all their forces from Iraq, because every country loves to follow what the US does and they are all much more perfect than us. Let them know that if they remain in Iraq then they do so without our protection, Gatorade and Mars Bars. The US should also apologize to every country that it demonized for not supporting our invasion of Iraq, even though they ALL demonized us, years after we stepped in to save THEIR ass, too.

6. Announce to Iraq that there will be no future military interventions, and that we will leave their public and brutally violent executions to themselves. We will give Saddam two brand new sons (that we so wrongly killed) and make sure they are just as kind in their rape and sexual abuse that they inflicted on so many in their mansions over the past few decades. Americans who work in Iraq will do so at their own risk and will notbe afforded the sameprotection that Americans in hostile areas get in every other corner of the world. See? We love to fuck over our own people too! Offer to purchase as much oil as Iraq can, because those people running Arabia's oil are dirt poor and could use some money.

7. Use every available truck, plane, and ship to get the troops out. Mail them rafts and floaties and make them row across the ocean. Squad by squad, just get the troops out, it's not like there's a war going on!

[Edited 2005-08-11 09:11:28]
Phil Derner Jr.
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:01 pm

I don't think it's about the troops that are in Iraq. The troops are only half the problem, and pulling them out and saying it's a horrible mistake is a cowardish and irresponsible act. You can't beat a country and every piece of infrastructure, healthcare and education it has to pieces and then say "mea culpa" and run away.

When Iraq was free, the coalition troops were the last thing it needed. Now, they're essential in keeping the country from turning into a potential danger towards all the Middle Eastern countries, and the whole world. At least until the coalition countries have built everything up again (and that's gonna take a long, long while).
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Reply 5):
There appeared to be some typos in the original post. I corrected them below.

-Phil

trust me, the typo's where not the problem with those suggestions.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm

Thanks for those corrections Phil, the whole thing makes so much more sense to me now.. What a great idea!!
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:14 pm

MD-90, bravo, I agree  thumbsup 
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:41 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
You should title this thread "Seven Steps for destroying America's international standing"

I disagree. I think our warmongering federal government, mainly led by Bush, cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice, in cahoots with a lickspittle, spineless Congress, has already done that.

Quoting OV735 (Reply 6):
Now, they're essential in keeping the country from turning into a potential danger towards all the Middle Eastern countries, and the whole world.

Gee, a problem that the EXACT SAME FORCES created.



American troops have no business defending other countries, anyway. The Department of DEFENSE is supposed to defend the American Republic, not the American Empire.
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:54 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 10):
American troops have no business defending other countries, anyway. The Department of DEFENSE is supposed to defend the American Republic, not the American Empire.

Yet if we NEVER came to the aid of other nations in need, you'd be the first one to complain that the US is cold and doesn't care about anyone but themselves, huh?

You'll deny, it, but you'll take any opportunity to complain about a Republican or conservative government.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting OV735 (Reply 6):
When Iraq was free, the coalition troops were the last thing it needed.

LOL. When was it free? 1919 for about 2 weeks?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 10):
Gee, a problem that the EXACT SAME FORCES created.

Indeed, when the troops entered, they committed themselves to be there until the situation is actually stable.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
LOL. When was it free? 1919 for about 2 weeks?

Of course it's a matter of terminology, but what I had in mind when I said "free" was the period in time when Iraq was independent, and was not occupied by foreign forces.
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:19 pm

WOW. MD-90, I feel very sad for them guys who lost their legs. How could we ever say sorry enough ? Using the patriotism and bravery of our soldiers for greed is treason. You would think America would have learned something from Vietnam.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:24 pm

How do we make the veterans feel better?

By telling them that the reason they ost their limbs was a mistake. OOPSIE!

Yeah, great fucking move.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:28 pm

DC10guy....you'd know about treason, huh?

MD-90.....Put the koolade down.

Your idols suggestions are nothing but drivel designed to incite the rabble (i.e. you) into making inflammatory statements based on nothing more than a desire to bring back isolationism and ignorance.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Apologize for the tens of thousands of Iraqis that were killed by our bullets, bombs, or sanctions.

On one level, maybe for the war, but the sanctions? Those were UN-mandated, dude, and were caused by Saddam's invasion of Kuwait in '90. No apoligies there, ever, for that one.

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
4. Apologize to our troops for sending them to Iraq

That's a non-starter, if ever I've heard one.

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
5. Announce to every country that was a member of our "coalition," and especially to Great Britain, that they made a horrible mistake in following our lead in invading Iraq.

That's not up to us to decide-each individual nation has to determine if it was a mistake, not be dictated to from Washington.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 1):
Hasn't this shit been beaten to death? There really is more to life than bitching about Bush and Iraq.

Isn't there more to life than just defending him everytime someone is found disagreeing with him. You're there in an instant with our bottle of perfume. Maybe you should realize that not everyone adores this guy.

What MD-90 proposes is NOT what is needed. I think we should have INCREASED our troop strength there, so that we can secure the nation that we invaded from these insurgents we allowed in. We need more security there, so that we can effectively train an Iraqi police and self-defense force.

If we just abandon Iraq now, without the ability to defend or police itself, it's like throwing a newborn gazelle next to a lion's den-that's a recipe for disaster. Do that and Iran will swallow it up in less than two years.

We owe a debt of honor to the Iraqi people, who's nation we unjustifiably invaded, to make the best of the situation, and give them a legitimate chance to make it on their own, without U.S. troops, without a thug like Saddam, and without having to worry about Iran invading it. We owe a debt of honor to those Americans who have fallen, and their families, to see this through, no matter how wrong-headed our illustrious leader was in starting this ill-gotten conflict, so that they would not have died for nothing.

We turn tail and run now, we leave Iraq defenseless, and 1900 fine Americans would have died for absolutely nothing.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:48 pm

With apologies to Mr Lew Rockwell, I don't think that we can get out of Iraq.

We're basically stuck there - for the long haul.

So, we may as well try and make the best of a rotten situation.

New responsible leadership in the United States that doesn't lie to us - and the world - about the Iraqi situation would be a good place to start. I don't care if the new regime in the US come 2008 is led by the GOP or the Dems. Just a White House consisting of honorable men and women who are straight shooters, intelligent, and able to command respect in the world. Our current leadership has no credibility left whatsoever.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Guest

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 4):
"Seven Steps for destroying America's international standing"

...Written and performed by George W. Bush.

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Reply 15):
By telling them that the reason they ost their limbs was a mistake. OOPSIE!

Well, the truth could go a long way. At least it would clear up any doubts in their minds.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
We owe a debt of honor to the Iraqi people, who's nation we unjustifiably invaded, to make the best of the situation, and give them a legitimate chance to make it on their own, without U.S. troops, without a thug like Saddam, and without having to worry about Iran invading it. We owe a debt of honor to those Americans who have fallen, and their families, to see this through, no matter how wrong-headed our illustrious leader was in starting this ill-gotten conflict, so that they would not have died for nothing.

Bingo. I'd love to hear Bush and his inner circle admit they made a mistake, (it'll never happen) because it's the truth, and get rightfully brought to justice. We do however need to finish the job we've committed ourselves to. Leaving Iraq in the shape it is now would just make things worse.

B
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:50 pm

BigPhilNYC - terrific post.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 16):
MD-90.....Put the koolade down.

Too late, DL021, I think he's filled the MSU Pool with it and has been swimming in there waaaaaay to frickin' long.

More LewFuckwell.com  redflag  redflag { redflag .

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Isn't there more to life than just defending him everytime someone is found disagreeing with him. You're there in an instant with our bottle of perfume. Maybe you should realize that not everyone adores this guy.

I'll be the first to agree Falcon that everyone is entitled to their A-Net opinion, I'd also be the first to agree that opinions should occasionally be backed up with viable, intelligent, cohesive sources . . . certainly you can agree LewFuckwell is far from viable, cohesive or intelligent.

MD-90s allegiance to this nutjob is nothing short of that given by the no-life TV watchers of televangelist - pretty damn sad . . .

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
I think we should have INCREASED our troop strength there

Thanks to Dumsfeld, remember, "Let's do it on the cheap". Further, remember Shinseki, "Beware the twelve division strategy with a ten division Army".

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
If we just abandon Iraq now, without the ability to defend or police itself, it's like throwing a newborn gazelle next to a lion's den-that's a recipe for disaster.

 checkmark 

Great post Falcon . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Thanks to Dumsfeld, remember, "Let's do it on the cheap".

…and who’s responsible for keeping this guy in his job? Donald Rumsfeld has failed to competently perform his duties, on this I think you and I agree, and yet he’s still there. Why is that? Is it okay for the President to keep people in critical positions who are not doing their jobs? At what point do we hold the President responsible for continuing to employ Rumsfeld?

This “stay the course” stuff is all fine and well unless it happens that we are about to crash into a big fucking iceberg. Maybe the Captain should consider deviating from the almighty course so that doesn’t happen. Maybe the Captain should consider shit-canning the navigator who plotted that course in the first place.

If I had subordinates who continually failed to get results, my boss wouldn’t hold them responsible for that. She would hold me responsible. She would fire me if I didn’t change my ways.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 21):

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Thanks to Dumsfeld, remember, "Let's do it on the cheap".

…and who’s responsible for keeping this guy in his job?

He's got a point there, ANC. The buck stops with Bush, not Rummy.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:03 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 21):
…and who’s responsible for keeping this guy in his job? Donald Rumsfeld has failed to competently perform his duties, on this I think you and I agree, and yet he’s still there. Why is that? Is it okay for the President to keep people in critical positions who are not doing their jobs? At what point do we hold the President responsible for continuing to employ Rumsfeld?

I already have Bravo . . . several months ago, during/after the AbuGhraib  redflag  where I made specific mention that Bush should have FIRED that idiot - along with his SecState from Birmingham, AL.

I'd look up the thread and post it here, but I suspect you know my posts well enough to take my word for it.

Next question?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
He's got a point there, ANC. The buck stops with Bush, not Rummy.

See my above comments my friend.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Isn't there more to life than just defending him everytime someone is found disagreeing with him.

Defending who? I didn't say anywhere in my post if Iraq was right or wrong.. I am just sick of hearing about it, especially from mental midgets who think lew rockwell is god, and the war was over only oil. I am past giving a shit. We are there, we have to finish what we started.

I don't really give a shit who is in charge, my response would be the same.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 24):
I am just sick of hearing about it, especially from mental midgets who think lew rockwell is god, and the war was over only oil. I am past giving a shit. We are there, we have to finish what we started.

I don't really give a shit who is in charge, my response would be the same.

why? This is current events.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):

between 1958 and 1979, more or less at least, primarily in the way of having been an independent state, and in the 70ies even a fairly prosperous one.
-
Saddam then, in 1982, started the war against Iran and gradually ruined the country. The invasion of Kuwait made things worse. And the "sanctions" finally totally ruined and destroyed the Iraqi economy. Any a bit more flexible leader would have got the country OUT of those sanctions, at least partially, not however that stubborn idiot.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:25 am

Let me be the devils's advocate and ask why Iraq should even be one nation?

It's a wholly artificial construct.

Left to its own devices, the Kurds would secede. Sure enough, Turkey would make a big noise, but entry into the EU could be that carrot that makes them shut up.

Shias and Sunnis would duke it out, and the Shias may create their own nation state closely alligned with Iran, with Sunnis in the area surrounding Baghdad. Sure, you'd have a lot of dead, but it's not like they're living in a state of bliss right now. Over 25,000 have died since we started this adventure.

So, perhaps, we could just bid adieu. No WMDs, Saddam Hussein gone, people free to choose their own destiny. Lots of oil and natural gas, so the various Iraqi groups at least have a leg up on some other nations that started out with nothing. Establish diplomatic relations with each nation state and commit to providing technical and financial assistance from the community of nations and financial markets.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:32 am

Step 8. Bend over and let Osama Bin Laden f*(k you with a SCUD warhead.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
Let me be the devils's advocate and ask why Iraq should even be one nation?

It's a wholly artificial construct.

Is there any nation that is not "An Imagined Community" in the B. Anderson sense? Take India, take the entire African Continent... maybe the concept of the Western Nation state has failed in regions that are not in the Western heisphere (India and some others excluded)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
1aMLA
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:03 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:45 am

Well the Bush started it so let him finish it, the only f**k up is that the worlds economy is suffering beacause of him.
But I have to say that i have the utmost respect to all the troops out there at the moment, shame we can send a bunch of lowlife politicians to the front line to see whats its like, and im not just talking about the US govt. I just dont get how the american people can stick with Cheney and Rumsfeld in office.

Saddam was a prick and had to go but im sure there was another way of doing it.

just my 2c
pull up, pull up, pull up
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:51 am

Oh how nice. More dribble from the barking moonbat known as LewCrockwell.

"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
Let me be the devils's advocate and ask why Iraq should even be one nation?

I think your hypothetical “solution” here is the most likely outcome whether we want it to happen that way or not.

I think the sectarian elements in Iraq deeply and profoundly distrust and dislike each other to the point where none of them is willing to be “ruled” by the other. That is precisely why the Kurds and the Shias have kept their militias intact despite our protestations, and it is why the Sunnis are mounting an insurgency.

We’ll see what happens with the formation of a constitution and the establishment of a new government in the next six months, but I’m very skeptical that there will be any improvement. There as been a never ending series of events that have “promised” improvement and so far that has just not worked out and I see no reason to believe this will either.

When Baghdad falls, it will get better……….Nope.
When Uday and Qusay are killed or captured, it will get better……….Nope.
When Saddam is killed or captured, it will get better……….Nope.
When Fallujah falls, it will get better……….Nope.
When we get Iraqi forces trained in the next few months, it will get better……….Nope.
When sovereignty is turned over to Iraqis, it will get better……….Nope.
When elections are held, it will get better……….Nope.
When the Provisional Government is formed, it will get better……….Nope.

If we don’t see a big change in the situation with the new elections, I think we need to seriously consider a Plan-B (not that we ever had a cohesive Plan-A) where we intentionally establish what is inevitable; Three separate countries.

We can incorporate wishful thinking for future reunification, but maybe by splitting the factions up we can create a security situation that would actually be conducive to meaningful political progress and stability.

I think there is real risk of the wheels coming off this thing if we just “stay the course”. Increasingly the American People are becoming fed-up with this war and that lack of support is not something that can be ignored indefinitely. Political pressure could reach a point where Bush or his successor would be compelled to abandon Iraq as is. That would be a disaster for both Iraq and the US.

It was obvious from the beginning that “Winning the Peace” in Iraq was going to be the hard part of this war, and now those chickens are coming home to roost.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 32):
It was obvious from the beginning that “Winning the Peace” in Iraq was going to be the hard part of this war, and now those chickens are coming home to roost.

Actually the chickens have been roosting at home since 2003 squawking the loudest in favor of the war.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:35 am

A few items are missing from Phil's list:

8. Immediately return all WMD stockpiles to Saddam's control, in particular those "around Baghdad and south of Tikrit".

9. Return the captured UAV's that had the capability of striking the continental US with NBC weapons

10. Restore Saddam's active nuclear weapon program, this to include the centrifuges, aluminium tubes and all the yellow cake fobtained rom Niger. Send in our top nuclear weapons specialists to fully ensure that he has "45 minute launch capability".

11. Tell Saddam that all is forgiven with Osama. They are free to collaborate on any future airplane-into-building projects. Promise that President Bush and his NSC advisor will ignore any memo warning of an impending strike on US soil, and that Bush will go fishing instead of consulting with the CIA.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:59 am

There is one, VERY nice thing about this thread.

The absence of B744F and RSmith. I think we will break MD-90 Eventually.
This space intentionally left blank
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:13 am

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
MD-90

There is only one famous word to say
about your article.

NUTS!!!
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:01 am

I have a special guest-
This is being turned over to
Majed.He is son of a Iraq general under Saddam.
He is 19.He has enlisted into US army.
Majed visits my store often-


step 1-3 was pritty good. i agree strongly.
put step six we are doing that we have SF traning the iraqy army.
step seven I disagree . we dont have to say sorry to no body.
we cant go to a cuntry and start somthink and just leave. we are doing the best we can to stay a live.

PSA53.I decided to leave this unedited. Even no spelling corrections.
But Majed said he was very interested in coming back tomorrow
to talk about his father and other issues.Keep in mind,he is 19.
His entire family is from Iraq.Rather that happens or not, is another
thing.

Thanks.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
MD-90
Topic Author
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:55 pm

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Reply 11):
Yet if we NEVER came to the aid of other nations in need, you'd be the first one to complain that the US is cold and doesn't care about anyone but themselves, huh?

You'll deny, it, but you'll take any opportunity to complain about a Republican or conservative government.

That is a bunch of bull. I am not a Democrat or a liberal, but I oppose pro-big government worship no matter which party someone supports. I see the Demopublicans and the Republicrats as two wings of the same Establishment Party anyway.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
We need more security there, so that we can effectively train an Iraqi police and self-defense force.

If we just abandon Iraq now, without the ability to defend or police itself, it's like throwing a newborn gazelle next to a lion's den-that's a recipe for disaster.

1. You actually believe that's going to happen?
2. It was recently demonstrated in Lebanon that as soon as the oppressing force got out, peace reigned throughout.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
1900 fine Americans would have died for absolutely nothing.

Too late, they already have.

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 34):
8. Immediately return all WMD stockpiles to Saddam's control, in particular those "around Baghdad and south of Tikrit".

9. Return the captured UAV's that had the capability of striking the continental US with NBC weapons

Hahaha, please, you actually believe that Saddam ever had any dangerous WMDs in any other place than his deluded mind?
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:12 am

Interesting that none of the rightwing chicken hawks can say anything about the guys who lost their legs. I'll like for them to look them guys straight in the eye and say ... " You didn't lose your legs for oil ". DAs to lose a limb for Dubyas oil ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 38):
2. It was recently demonstrated in Lebanon that as soon as the oppressing force got out, peace reigned throughout.

Such as constant bombings and assassinations and political problems with Syria including closing the border, which hurt the country's economy? Peace has not reigned throughout anything in Lebanon.

The plan is definatley not a good way to go, the US will destroy its repuation world wide. The best plan is to admit a mistake was made and patch everything up, then leave. The US will lose all face if it does the above, and by admitting it was a mistake, fixing everything up, and apologising to the Iraqis, they will look good and save having their reputation trashed. Picking up and leaving now will be disastrous with all of the insurgents in Iraq; a civil war will definatley erupt.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:32 am

I say my 3-step program works better;

1. Nuke 'em
2. Hang out until the radio activity gets to acceptable levels
3. Suck it dry of the black stuff
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:34 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 41):
1. Nuke 'em
2. Hang out until the radio activity gets to acceptable levels
3. Suck it dry of the black stuff

Heres my one step program for you, buddy:
Shove that statement right up your behind!
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:38 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 41):
I say my 3-step program works better;

1. Nuke 'em
2. Hang out until the radio activity gets to acceptable levels
3. Suck it dry of the black stuff

My 1 step plan-send you over to Iraq to fight, so we don't have to listen to such crap. Now, that's fair, isn't it?

Thanks for continuing the arrogant "Ugly American", AGM. You're the reason why the rest of the world hates our guts.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 42):
Heres my one step program for you, buddy:
Shove that statement right up your behind!

THEN send him to Iraq!  bigthumbsup 
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
My 1 step plan-send you over to Iraq to fight, so we don't have to listen to such crap. Now, that's fair, isn't it?

Well, I already spent 18 months over there and I'm going again in June so I'm glad at least someone's plan is working out.

Take a joke people.
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 44):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
My 1 step plan-send you over to Iraq to fight, so we don't have to listen to such crap. Now, that's fair, isn't it?

Well, I already spent 18 months over there and I'm going again in June so I'm glad at least someone's plan is working out.

Take a joke people.

Kudos to you for the 18 months you've spent In-Country.

If, however, I were your CSM, I'd bitch slap you Mr. Warrant Officer for your comment above. Problem with young pilots these days, too cocky for their own good and don't know when to keep their trap shut.

[Edited 2005-08-15 02:52:35]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 44):
Take a joke people.

Indicate it's a joke, friend, and no one will ream you in your caboose, got it?

What you said was clearly offensive to even a lot of Americans, and it was plain stupid.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
If, however, I were your CSM, I'd bitch slap you Mr. Warrant Officer for your comment above. Problem with young pilots these days, too cocky for their own good and don't know when to keep their trap shut.

What he said. And ANC has worn the uniform, so he's more qualified to bitch slap you than I am.  Smile

And btw, who's plan is working out? I don't see much working out there, except chaos and death.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:01 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 44):
Well, I already spent 18 months over there and I'm going again in June so I'm glad at least someone's plan is working out.

Take a joke people.

Your just a natural comedian, aren't you? Hilarious... with soldiers like you, its no wonder the Iraqis don't respect the US forces. Nuking a country is not exactly the best thing to joke about.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:30 am

QR, you and I don't agree much, but on this one, we're of one mind. For someone who has served in Iraq, to even allegedly JOKE about something so idiotic is just breathtaking, and I think he owes this forum an apology for his lack of judgement.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Seven Steps To Withdraw From Iraq

Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 47):
Your just a natural comedian, aren't you? Hilarious... with soldiers like you, its no wonder the Iraqis don't respect the US forces. Nuking a country is not exactly the best thing to joke about.

Oh please, I could go on all night on what I really think about Iraq, but frankly I don't want to and even then I'd get bitched out by all the armchair diplomats and generals who pretend to have a clue what they're talking about. Plus I need my sleep and unlike my comments above, I'd be serious and it definitely wouldn't be appropriate for a soldier to say in an open forum. And I'll show old csm some respect and shut up.
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BreninTW, Dreadnought, Francoflier, JT8DJET, VapourTrails, WarRI1 and 22 guests