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clickhappy
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US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:10 pm

Proud to be an american!

Washington says it has no plans to obey a NAFTA ruling that compels the United States to refund an estimated $5-billion in illegally collected duties to Canadian lumber producers -- setting up a potential trade war that experts say could threaten the future of the North American trading bloc.

http://www.canada.com/national/natio...63bb07-df95-4f39-8118-514e41b91fdf

So I guess NAFTA is a good idea until they rule against the US, and then we just thumb our noses?

Pathetic, no wonder the world hates us.
 
jaysit
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:13 pm

If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

Until then, the standoff continues.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TedTAce
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:16 pm

Does Canada have Nukes?
This space intentionally left blank
 
jaysit
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:21 pm

There has to be a legal loophole under which the USTR is adopting this stance.

Usually a treaty like NAFTA supersedes all other laws, having been incorporated into Federal law.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jamman
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:38 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Does Canada have Nukes?

They have Mounties and their comin to whip yo ass Big grin
Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
 
teva
Posts: 1764
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:40 pm

Jaysit, I agree with you if the US add a clause stating she has to stay in canada for ever.
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
AC_A340
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

We will take back Celine Dion if we can leave Bryan Adams.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Teva (Reply 5):
Jaysit, I agree with you if the US add a clause stating she has to stay in canada for ever.

But not the Yukon Terrotory - too close to Alaska and our border defences are NOT what they ought to be . .  biggrin 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Danny
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Proud to be an american!
...
So I guess NAFTA is a good idea until they rule against the US, and then we just thumb our noses?

For the first time I'm going to agree with you Royal  Wink

The same policy is in place in regards to WTO. Canadian steel - US ignores WTO verdict but obviously runs to WTO to complain on Airbus. What a hypocrisy!
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:56 pm

Another brand of arrogance from this administration. It trumps NAFTA, CAFTA, but when there's a ruling against it, it ignores it. This administration is adding another chapter in it's continuing quest to ruin our reputation and our good name. It's an embarrassment.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Greyhound
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Does Canada have Nukes?

Don't give GW any ideas.
29th, Let's Go!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Does Canada have Nukes?

A little thing like the facts never stopped Bush in invading Iraq, did it?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Banco
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting AC_A340 (Reply 6):
We will take back Celine Dion if we can leave Bryan Adams.

Regrettably, I believe you've already given him to us. Don't know quite what we did to deserve that, mind...
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Superfly
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:15 am

This is why I never supported NAFTA in the first place. I knew our companies would not compromise and if it would never benefit the buying public; case in point, affordable medicine from Canada.

BTW, Molsons needs to send us there Hemp Ale beer.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
cornish
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
Regrettably, I believe you've already given him to us. Don't know quite what we did to deserve that, mind...

Maybe we should post Geri Halliwell over to Canada - that should restore the balance somewhat Big grin
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 14):
Maybe we should post Geri Halliwell over to Canada - that should restore the balance somewhat

Need a bloody large postbox.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 15):
Need a bloody large postbox.

Unlike Posh Spice who's more than thin enough to fit through one  Wink
(I would have suggested her - but we've already sent her to Spain in retaliation against them pinching all our fish)
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Does Canada have Nukes?

No, but we supplied the materials needed to make yours Big grin

LOL

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
photopilot
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:11 am

Just another proof that the American Government CANNOT be trusted.

NAFTA is a SIGNED CONTRACT between nations. You ask why nobody has any respect for Americans. Well look no further than a country who word and signature on a contract is worthless!!!

And then of course there is the American BULLY-BOY response of "What are you going to do about it"

Well, the WTO will allow conterveiling duties to be placed on American goods until the full 5 Billion dollars is paid, PLUS Interest. So monitarily, the money will eventually be recovered. What will NEVER recover is the knowledge that America is morally BANKRUPT and HYPOCRACY is the name of the game.

Sad..... truly sad.

So I say this to all Americans. Instead of asking "Why doesn't anybody like us?", simply look in the mirror and you'll know why.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:19 am

Yes it is the average americans fault that our government won't honor its obligations.

Thank you for your contribution to this thread
 
photopilot
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Yes it is the average americans fault that our government won't honor its obligations

Well 51% of your citizens (who bothered to vote) voted for the present government. And whether you actually voted for the party that is now in power, do you not hold your government accountable for it's actions?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Thank you for your contribution to this thread

You're Welcome!!
 
StarAC17
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:45 am

A very Simple solution since we are the number one provider of oil to the US just simply put a $10 service charge on each barrel exported and the problem should be taken care of in about 6 months. The only problem is that if we actually did this we would be invaded.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
A346Dude
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:51 am

Photopilot, chill out. Not a single American who has responded to this thread has defended the government on this issue.

By the way, Canada's voter turnout is only very slightly higher than the United States'.

Clickhappy, I'm glad some (who am I kidding, most) Americans are reasonable enough to respect an agreement that was made.

A346Dude
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
Lutenist
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:53 am

First of all, please do not send Celine Dion and Brian Adams back. In the name of justice, if you must expel them, send them to a country that practices torture.

Second, haven't the duties collected on softwood already been paid out to the American businesses protected under such duties? If so, would the companies be expected to refund these amounts? If not, hasn't the US federal government's just wasted a lot more of taxpayers' money?
 
aloges
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 14):
Maybe we should post Geri Halliwell over to Canada

Hmmmmm... when I think about it, I'd gladly grant that piece of eye candy asylum at my place. She'd just have to promise that for each time she sings in the shower, I get to hand her the soap. And use it at the same time she does.  mischievous 

[Edited 2005-08-11 20:00:06]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:50 am

You guys are discovering "hot water"...these guys (the U.S.) have done the same to Mexico regarding the Tuna embargo and then the Truck and shipping companies from Mexico to the US --the weirdest thing is that some years ago they complained of the shitty condition of Mexican trucks (true), but a lot of companies bought European Trucks (Mercedes,Volvo, Scannia etc), what happened? NO again.... it was not until this year that "some" Mexican trucks were allowed to use the US for delivery...

But then again half of the oil tehy get comes from Mexico and Canada...gues what would happen if an oil embargo happens... A north American war for sure....because lets face it our US. friends here would rater Nuke us than have their SUVs parked due to fuel shortage...  Smile
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
MrChips
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
Does Canada have Nukes?

If you really pissed us off that much, given our manufacturing sector, we could have a couple dozen in a matter of weeks.

BTW, so could any just about country with functioning nuclear reactors.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
WellHung
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:20 am

Perhaps Canada can retain Matt D, who is currently serving as a crusader for restaurants that are owed less than $5.
 
slider
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

Until then, the standoff continues.

LOL!!  Smile

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 18):
NAFTA is a SIGNED CONTRACT between nations.

I guess that contract doesn't have any provisions about dumping cheap lumber into the US and destroying the American logging market does it?

Payback's a bitch, isn't it Canadians?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:14 am

So now its Canada's fault?

Canada appealed to both the WTO and NAFTA who found in favor of the Canadians.

But that isn't the answer the U.S. Department of Commerce wants, so now they tell the world "f**k you" and people with their heads in the sand ("Slider") take the US side of things because it is "patriotic."

Give me a break. You make me want to vomit.
 
jutes85
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
I guess that contract doesn't have any provisions about dumping cheap lumber into the US and destroying the American logging market does it?

So because we sell it at a lower price then you do, its somehow our fault? Give me a break.  Yeah sure
nothing
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:33 am

Frankly I dont care much about the BS Canadian lumber market. This lumber business didnt just come up this year, this has been an ongoing issue. Im sidding with the US on this one.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 29):
But that isn't the answer the U.S. Department of Commerce wants, so now they tell the world "f**k you" and people with their heads in the sand ("Slider") take the US side of things because it is "patriotic."

Give me a break. You make me want to vomit.

Go vomit in Canada then, ive only seen anti-USA posts ever since you joined.

You guys are a bunch of idiots who are attacking Bush and NAFTA generally. This goes back under Clinton...but you guys are too dense to even read up on this subject and know what the hell the 1996 Softwood Agreement which put special fees on importation of soft wood.

Christ, I cant believe this is GWBs fault also.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 25):
But then again half of the oil tehy get comes from Mexico and Canada...gues what would happen if an oil embargo happens... A north American war for sure....because lets face it our US. friends here would rater Nuke us than have their SUVs parked due to fuel shortage...

North American war? This one would be shorter than Israel steamrolling over Egypt.
 
squared
Posts: 352
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):

I guess that contract doesn't have any provisions about dumping cheap lumber into the US and destroying the American logging market does it?

Dumping? That would suggest Canadian producers are selling lumber below cost or below the domestic price, which they aren't. This issue has been brought up again and again, yet, trade bodies continue to rule in favour of Canada. The issue of stumpage fees, is pretty much a non-issue, as some provinces have already agreed to increase them.

People often forget that it is the consumers who are victimized by duties. American home buyers are paying more to build new homes because of the duties. There is intense lobbying on behalf of the construction industry in DC, trying to get the duties removed. But I guess not all lobbyists get heard in DC.

As for Celine Dion, we'll take her and the 5 billion, and build a nice little cabin for her in the middle of frigid Nunavut. That way everyone wins!  Silly

SQuared
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting SQuared (Reply 32):

People often forget that it is the consumers who are victimized by duties. American home buyers are paying more to build new homes because of the duties. There is intense lobbying on behalf of the construc

This is true, after the 1996 Softwood agreement, house prices rose in the USA by $1500 because of the duties.
 
bongo
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting AC_A340 (Reply 6):
We will take back Celine Dion if we can leave Bryan Adams.

That's what I call a good deal  Smile
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:50 am

Who blamed GWB? Don't be so damn hypersensitive.

And how exactly am I anti-USA? Because I think the war in Iraq is a piece of shit? So what!
 
Danny
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
I think the war in Iraq is a piece of shit

Unbelievable, I agree with you for the second time in one day Big grin  thumbsup 
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
Who blamed GWB? Don't be so damn hypersensitive.

And how exactly am I anti-USA? Because I think the war in Iraq is a piece of shit? So what!

Hyper- Sensitive? LMFAO. I dont care about the Iraq war much either, but the overwhelming majority of the things you post are somehow negative about the USA. I said USA not Bush (Take a deep breath to let that sink in) so I think your too sensitive  Silly

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
You guys are a bunch of idiots who are attacking Bush and NAFTA generally.

Im not sure what you got on your reading comprehension part on your ACT but 'you guys' is different from 'Clickhappy.'
 
photopilot
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
You guys are a bunch of idiots who are attacking Bush and NAFTA generally.

Boy Lot767, have you got this wrong. I'm NOT attacking NAFTA, but rather supporting it to the fullest.

Canada has followed all the terms of the NAFTA agreement, signed by both countries. Both the NAFTA commission and the WTO have agreed that Canada is in compliance with the NAFTA trade treaty.

It is the Americans who are in contravention of the NAFTA Agreement and they are refusing to follow NAFTA, an agreement that they signed.

It's quite a simple concept really. Sign a contract, be bound by that contract. Something the American Softwood Lumber Industry seems to have a hard time grasping. Something the NAFTA Commission and the WTO have easily done.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.
Until then, the standoff continues.

To hell with that Big grin You can keep her.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
Does Canada have Nukes?

If by nukes you mean aerosol cans in a microwave... then yes we do  Wink
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 38):
Boy Lot767, have you got this wrong. I'm NOT attacking NAFTA, but rather supporting it to the fullest.

I specifically did not mention names and now what do I get?  Silly Wonderful  Silly
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 13385
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting AC_A340 (Reply 6):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

We will take back Celine Dion if we can leave Bryan Adams.

How about we give you back Celine Dion and Bryan Adams in exchange for NOT sending you Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, and while we're at it, could you guys raise the cost of shooting films in Vancouver to sort of level the playing field a bit?

Oh, and we want Geddy Lee, too. Come to think of it, you never see him and Celine Dion in the same room at the same time....hmmm...

Quoting WellHung (Reply 27):
Perhaps Canada can retain Matt D, who is currently serving as a crusader for restaurants that are owed less than $5.

And WellHung lands a vicious right that sends Matt D flying to the canvas...

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
KLMA330
Posts: 703
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 20):
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Yes it is the average americans fault that our government won't honor its obligations

Well 51% of your citizens (who bothered to vote) voted for the present government. And whether you actually voted for the party that is now in power, do you not hold your government accountable for it's actions?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Thank you for your contribution to this thread

You're Welcome!!

Thank you for that!! God forbid we upset Big Brother to the South! Of course they can't afford to pay the 5 Billion, what with a deficit at 333 Billion Dollars, and a war that they started and are incapable of wrapping up properly.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

throw in cheez pam anderson too.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 18):
Just another proof that the American Government CANNOT be trusted.

NAFTA is a SIGNED CONTRACT between nations. You ask why nobody has any respect for Americans. Well look no further than a country who word and signature on a contract is worthless!!!

And then of course there is the American BULLY-BOY response of "What are you going to do about it"

Well, the WTO will allow conterveiling duties to be placed on American goods until the full 5 Billion dollars is paid, PLUS Interest. So monitarily, the money will eventually be recovered. What will NEVER recover is the knowledge that America is morally BANKRUPT and HYPOCRACY is the name of the game.

Sad..... truly sad.

So I say this to all Americans. Instead of asking "Why doesn't anybody like us?", simply look in the mirror and you'll know why.

its nice to know other are seeing this govt. for what it is...a big hypocrite!
"Up the Irons!"
 
skysurfer
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:52 am

'What's good for the goose definately ISN'T good for the gander in this case'........if it doesn't suit the US then they don't wanna know and they don't care, even if it means going against a ruling body. Oh well, it always happens so i guess i, and everyone else shouldn't be surprised at the US' response.
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
theCoz
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 26):
If you really pissed us off that much, given our manufacturing sector, we could have a couple dozen in a matter of weeks.

You'd probably have to turn a couple of them hockey stick factories into a nuke plant, huh.  Yeah sure
 
YYZAeroEng
Posts: 160
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:37 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...50810.wsofty0810/BNStory/Business/

that might answers some question on the debate.
I'm disappointed in the decision of the current US administration (I was equally disappointed in the way Clinton handled this). One would hope that they would respect an agreement made with Canada, considering our business, cultural and historic ties.

As for Canada produce nuclear weapons, that might be harder then people think. I believe that Canada has declared that it won't make/buy/use ect.. Nuclear weapons (I think this was a statement made by former PM Trudeau)
Secondly the CANDU reactors do not produce weapons grade material.
Using CANFLEX (http://www.aecltechnologies.com/Content/ACR/Innovations/CANFLEX.htm) fuel CANDU reactors can consume weapons grade Plutonium.

Rohan
Mind that Bus! What bus? *Splat!*
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting YYZAeroEng (Reply 46):
I believe that Canada has declared that it won't make/buy/use ect.. Nuclear weapons (I think this was a statement made by former PM Trudeau)

Yes, Canada has no intention to produce or purchase nuclear or biological weapons, we have enough south of the border.
nothing
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
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RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:14 am

I'm obviously biased towards Canada, some I'll try to stay out of this one, but I thought this comment was just too funny:

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
I guess that contract doesn't have any provisions about dumping cheap lumber into the US and destroying the American logging market does it?

That is the most ignorant, yet comical, comment I've read in a long time. Do you have any idea what NAFTA is? Please tell me you were joking with that comment because you can't honestly believe that comment makes any sense, (refer my recent post of Dan Quayle quotes ).

Have you been taking history lessons from Ann Coulter?

As for repayment of that $5Bn...Being the good Canadian I am, I've come up with a compromise:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
If they take back Celine Dion, we'll pay them.

How about YOU keep her, and then forward her $5Bn paycheque our way?

G
 
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TheRedBaron
Posts: 3081
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

RE: US Owes Canada $5 Billion And Refuses To Pay!

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
North American war? This one would be shorter than Israel steamrolling over Egypt.

I never said Canada or Mexico would win the war....for crazy statements there is Chavez

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 41):
Oh, and we want Geddy Lee, too. Come to think of it, you never see him and Celine Dion in the same room at the same time....hmmm...

Mentioning Celine and Mr. Amazing bass player in the same sentence is a new low for you.. EA CO AS...  Wink

best regrads TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.

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