mrniji
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Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:03 pm

congrats from India to Pakistan for achieving independence from he British Colonial Administration on 14 August 1947! A black chapter of history could be ended.

We hope for good relations in the future, and hope that the country prospers in the future, that it remains stable and that the people will can lives happily!

Have some nice celebrations. Tomorrow, its our turn!  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
GVBIG
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:06 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
congrats from India to Pakistan for achieving independence from he British Colonial Administration

Well it doesn't stop hoards of them coming to Britain still does it? Obviously we weren't that bad!


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xpat
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
We hope for good relations in the future, and hope that the country prospers in the future, that it remains stable and that the people will can lives happily!

I second those sentiments.

Quoting GVBIG (Reply 1):
Well it doesn't stop hoards of them coming to Britain still does it?

Aren't you clever?
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
ACAfan
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:51 am

Congrats on not being overrun by India... yet.

A word of advice, just sign a treaty with India formalizing the LoC as the international boundary. You can't get Indian Kashmir and you never will. Ever. So give it up. And demilitarize the border. A free trade agreement would be icing on the cake.

**********************************************************

By the way, under the concept of a unified India:

1. Why cant Nepal be a state within the Republic of India?
2. After the 1973 war, why wasn't East Bengal unified into India?
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
ACAfan
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting GVBIG (Reply 1):
Well it doesn't stop hoards of them coming to Britain still does it? Obviously we weren't that bad!

You Britishers conquered their country. They are just collecting their interest by conquering yours. Along with the Indians, East Africans, Arabs, Caribbean islanders, etc, etc.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
dl021
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:27 am

Wow, a nice thread about peace and future prosperity starts to turn sarcastic and ugly fairly quickly. No wonder stability is so elusive.....everyone wants to be a smartass.

Best wishes to both India and Pakistan on the eves of their independence.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
xpat
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:33 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
everyone wants to be a smartass.

Ain't that the truth! But considering the age range of the posters, hardly a shock. Like they say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."


Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
Best wishes to both India and Pakistan on the eves of their independence.

BTW..Pakistan Independence is Aug. 14.
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
jacobin777
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:25 am

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 3):
A word of advice, just sign a treaty with India formalizing the LoC as the international boundary. You can't get Indian Kashmir and you never will. Ever. So give it up. And demilitarize the border. A free trade agreement would be icing on the cake.

given how Kashmir is broken into in terms of geography/religion.....India would have the most to lose if Kashmir was to no longer be controlled by either Pakistan/India..

For example...Kashmir Valley is 95% muslim and 4% hindu, while the Jammu region is 66% hindu, but 30% Muslim...so India would have lots to lose if Kashmir voted for independence or a vote to join either Pakistan or India.

I say let the people of Kashmir vote for either 1)part of Pakistan 2) Part of India 3)independent...
"Up the Irons!"
 
mrniji
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 3):
1. Why cant Nepal be a state within the Republic of India?
2. After the 1973 war, why wasn't East Bengal unified into India?

Simply because the wouldn't want to.. and why should they? South Asia is more than India. by the way, I am happy that India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal have their own states.. why should India put all their resources into these countries to make them stable (I do not want to see Baluchistan, Karachi or the NWFP as part of India!)? India has developed much better than all these nations together (democracy!), and I rather prefer to develop our nation further than starting new adventures! They are own sovereign nations and should decide upon their future. Let me emphasize a little on 2:

1st, the war was 1971  Wink . It would rather be likely (though this is completely unlikely  Wink ) that even West Bengal joins Bangladesh than Bangladesh India. There was too much opposition towards acceeding India - teh Bengali identiti would have been surpressed. The 1971 war was very complex. Pakistan thought that Islam per se was enough to constitute statehood. But a Bengali identity, driven on lunguistic attributes inter alia, was too strong. Pakistan's terror rule in Bengal, consisting the majority of people btw, was the main reason why the quest for independence. Mrs. Gandhi's objective was rather to slap Pakistan into the face than conquering the territory - as we know it was teh Indian Army that forced the Pakistani army to surrender in Dhaka. India's intervention was in my eyes not compliant with international law, but the USSR vetoed against consequences for India. And according to a Bangladeshi friend of mine, people in Bangladesh are still happy that India intervened, as the Pakistani terror rule and the breach of the most basic human rights (rapes by the army happened in an incredible extent!) was out of control

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
Wow, a nice thread about peace and future prosperity starts to turn sarcastic and ugly fairly quickly. No wonder stability is so elusive.....everyone wants to be a smartass.

Thanks, Ian!  Wink


By the way, Jacobin, I won't discuss Kashmir here (and especially not with you - this thread was meant as a nice gesture but was ripped off-topic) - I am all for self-determination and go against the stream in my own country. But since you started to raise the question: please tell the whole truth, that a lot of Hindu Pandits etc were killed by Pakistan-sponsored terror-organizations, and lots had to flee to "mainland India". And please tell the truth that Pakistan Kashmir (so-called Azad Kashmir) is under brutal rule from the center. And please tell the truth athat a referendum in Pakistan Kashmir would never be free and fair: probably 100 % would vote for Kashmir, in official numbers  Smile

So, to reemphasize, this comes out of my heart: HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY! And let us have good relations in the future! All the best for your country and the people!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:08 pm

Well, I see it the positive way. If you in shops in Dubai, for instance petrol-stations, can buy an incredible variety of Indian and Pakistani industrial consumer products, then you realize that "Greater India" indeed has made remarkable progress. That many Indians and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis emigrate to the Khaleej-area and to Europe (preferebly the U.K.) is just normal, as wages in the West for the foreseeable future are very much better than "at home" and there also are better opportunities in the West.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 3):
After the 1973 war, why wasn't East Bengal unified into India

1971 War was to Liberate East Pakistan which became Bangladesh & an Independent country.

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 3):
Why cant Nepal be a state within the Republic of India

Nepal is a seperate country with an open Border with India.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
I say let the people of Kashmir vote for either 1)part of Pakistan 2) Part of India 3)independent

India is a Democracy,If Muslim majority state Kashmir was not in India.The very fabric of Demoractic Secular India would be in threat.If Kashmir was with India.The creation of Pakistan is threatened.
Only solution is convert LOC to International Soft border.
regds
MEL
If
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ACAfan
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:36 pm

I agree about Bangladesh because they are a Muslim nation and Muslims tend to cause trouble if they can't control things.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):

Nepal is a seperate country with an open Border with India.

Nepal should be part of India because:

1. It was part of British India.
2. It is a Hindu nation.
3. Its people are suffering under an unstable autocratic government.
4. India has the ability to establish peace and democracy to Nepal.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
mrniji
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 11):
I agree about Bangladesh because they are a Muslim nation and Muslims tend to cause trouble if they can't control things.

Bangladesh defines itself as Bengali Nation (Bangla = bengali ; Desh = Country), and NOT Muslim Nation - the two-nation theory (i.e. dominant Hindu + Muslim State) by Jinnah turned out to be a three nation reality. The force of Islam was not sufficient to integrate Pakistan

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 11):
Nepal should be part of India because:

The people of Nepal should decide (and they are already people suggesting correctly) that India has far too much influence in Nepal. None of your arguments makes sense. India is defined as secular and not a Hindu state (and the attempt of the yack right wing here in India to define it has Hindu State luckily failed). Nepal is a sovereign nation and will remain as such
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ACAfan
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:56 pm

Islam by itself cannot bind a nation. A nation is built on many things. Bangladesh is built on religion, language and culture. ***And territorial integrity.*** (Imagine if Hyderabad State decided to join Pakistan. THat would have been a disaster.)

I know India is a very secular country and that Nepal is the only Hindu nation on Earth. My suggestion is that India ought to intervene in Nepal and stabilize the situation and establish democracy. If they choose to join India fine. If not fine.

Question: Why was Nepal separated from British India anyway? How come it didnt get to choose India or Pakistan in 1947?
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Congrats To Pakistan For Being 58 Yrs Independent!

Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 11):
they are a Muslim nation and Muslims tend to cause trouble


there are roughly 100 mio. Muslims INSIDE India as Indian citizens, so that THIS would NOT have been a problem

Quoting ACAfan (Reply 13):
uestion: Why was Nepal separated from British India anyway? How come it didnt get to choose India or Pakistan in 1947?

Nepal dates its independence to 1768, some time before the end of the Raj in British India

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