bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:55 am

Istanbul will host its first Formula 1 race today.
Currently the top three looks like this

1. Kimi
2. Fisi
3. Alonso

MS has been forced to the back due to an engine change and Sato was disqualified for holding Webber up on his qualifying lap.

Kimi to win!!!!!!
 
photopilot
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:52 am

The race is Kimi's to loose. He has the outright speed, but the real question this season is still this. Does the McLaren have the reliability to finish?

Should be a great race on a new track. Lots of unknowns still and that will make it interesting.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:40 am

Hope this is an interesting race. I'll have to see if shown live on Speed Channel here in the USA tomorrow morning (US EDT). MS/Ferrari is still out of it, looks like they will only have a few flashes success this year (like the face F-1 US GP at Indy).
I heard during showing of the practice on Speed Channel today am (US EDT) that Webber vistied the site of the WWI Battle of Giliiopi (sp?) where his Grandfather had died fighting there with the Australian Army.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 1):
The race is Kimi's to loose. He has the outright speed, but the real question this season is still this. Does the McLaren have the reliability to finish?

Well thats right, I would be more concerned about the Mercedes engine then the car. Mercedes have been the cause of most of their reliability issues this year yet they don't seem willing to take the blame.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:35 pm

What's this I hear about gossip about Kimi - his wife catching him naked with another woman?!? Anybody know?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 4):
What's this I hear about gossip about Kimi - his wife catching him naked with another woman?!? Anybody know?

Kimi seems to be getting a reputation for his wild nights out. A few months ago a club owner claimed Kimi was exposing himself in the club and when asked to cover himself up Kimi just shrugged it off with a yeah yeah and continued what he was doing.
As far as McLaren are probably concerned, as long as he is not draging their name through the dirt and keeps producing results on the track and permforms his contractual obligations (Sponsor, PR stuff etc) in a professional manner he can do as he likes.

Here is a link to the story http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=95475

My poor 14 year old cousin who is in love with Kimi is extactic about the prospect of his marriage breaking up. Bizzare girl.
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
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RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:02 pm

Who actually enjoyed the race?

Williams have hit the self-destruct button yet again with those bizarre tyre failures ... I wonder what Mark Webber is thinking now and how many times has he been behind a Jaguar ... I mean Red Bull ... this year?

McLaren is in another league at the moment ... who can beat them? Can Raikkonen take away 24 points in the next 5 races? I think Alonso needs to claim the title before they get to the final round or if it comes down to a title showdown it will be Raikkonen who walks away with it.

The season has been fantastic so far though.  bigthumbsup 
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3878
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:07 pm

Yes, the whole tire failure thing was odd. Apparently the rear wing on the Williams may have been rubbing against the tires. It seems strange that it has only cropped up now.

If both the constructor's and manufacturer's championships both come down to the last race, it will certainly make for some excitement, something which has been rather lacking in the sport in recent years...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:38 pm

Great great race!! I enjoyed every moment of it. I was quite suprised by the circuit, normally Tilke's circuits bore me!

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 6):
McLaren is in another league at the moment ... who can beat them? Can Raikkonen take away 24 points in the next 5 races? I think Alonso needs to claim the title before they get to the final round or if it comes down to a title showdown it will be Raikkonen who walks away with it.

I hope so! Providing Kimi can win all the races that are left, I think its pretty much his IF Alonso has one retirement or non points finish. Its not impossible.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
Kimi seems to be getting a reputation for his wild nights out. A few months ago a club owner claimed Kimi was exposing himself in the club and when asked to cover himself up Kimi just shrugged it off with a yeah yeah and continued what he was doing.

Legend. F1 needs people like this, he might not have much character during the race, but outside 'work' he seems too! Look at James Hunt - he was a right playboy with women and stuff.

Mclaren might give KR a public bollocking, but I bet on the quiet, they love this press attention...

Adam
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
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RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:43 pm

what a race!!! turkey will be one of the bigger circuits of the future, thats for sure....



go kimmi, go mclaren, go doornbos, go albers!!!
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:50 pm

Quoting BA757 (Reply 8):
Legend. F1 needs people like this, he might not have much character during the race, but outside 'work' he seems too! Look at James Hunt - he was a right playboy with women and stuff.

Mclaren might give KR a public bollocking, but I bet on the quiet, they love this press attention...

McLaren have said nothing. Like I said before, as long as hes not draging their name through the dirt then frankly their drivers can do as they like.
Its a bit like when JPM fractured his shoulder earlier this year, he claims it was a tennis incident others claim it was a motorbike incident. Ron Dennis said for all he cared he could have been jumping between London buses, as the drivers personal time is theirs to do as the please. Be that get drunk and take home women who aren't their wives or do silly stuff. Just keep the McLaren name away from whatever they're doing.
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:54 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 10):
McLaren have said nothing

No. I was thinking more of the London club incident when he was allegedly tossing off. Mclaren gave a public bollocking over that.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 10):
Ron Dennis said for all he cared he could have been jumping between London buses, as the drivers personal time is theirs to do as the please. Be that get drunk and take home women who aren't their wives or do silly stuff. Just keep the McLaren name away from whatever they're doing.

Thats the way it should be!

Adam
 
senliture
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 5:28 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:09 pm

When I was watching the race, I suddenly have a feeling that I am watching the Interlagos. The first turn, the pit exit, the anti-clockwise, and the wild turn 8. But I must say, the Istanbul is great, the best of the newly built circuits.

btw guys, I love seeing those data comparison between drivers, especially when Button was chasing Alonso and the throttle/brake thingy was just too good to miss.
 
EddieGunsmoke
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting Senliture (Reply 12):
When I was watching the race, I suddenly have a feeling that I am watching the Interlagos

I had the same thoughts. Very much like the Interlagos.
Too bad Monteiro destroyed Montoya's diffuser. That was the reason why he went of the track in turn 8.
 
DABZF
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:25 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:59 pm

Well, there's two things we Finns are good at and love to do...
Partying and racing  Wink

Honestly, I think that Kimi has too many "opportunities" to cheat his wife that it's just a matter of time when it will, if it has not yet, happen!

Kimi made a couple of small jokes about what has happen... how much of what the papers are writing is true at the end!?


But to the race in Turkey... track seems to be awesome. Drivers like it and best, there are few nice place for overtaking opportunities - you can't say that from many of the other tracks...

It's also "funny" how Juan Pablo seems really not to help Kimi a one bit, as he has said! Was a nice (not) way to give Fernando the second place on a silver plate like that!


Now it's just to wait and see if Fernando stays out of the points in few races and McLaren to hold the rest of the season to make it all interesting at the end!  checkeredflag 
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Senliture (Reply 12):
When I was watching the race, I suddenly have a feeling that I am watching the Interlagos. The first turn, the pit exit, the anti-clockwise, and the wild turn 8.

Yeah I did too, turns 1 & 2 looks exactly like Interlago's Senna S ...

But the circuit has no "character" and the vast expanse of bare earth for much of the way round is a bit disappointing. You can't beat circuits like Imola, Monza, or even Silverstone and Melbourne for that.

The other two Tilke circuits Shanghai and Sepang seems to have a bit more character and atmosphere than this one in Istanbul ...
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 15):
But the circuit has no "character" and the vast expanse of bare earth for much of the way round is a bit disappointing. You can't beat circuits like Imola, Monza, or even Silverstone and Melbourne for that.

Don't you think thats to make the circuit look Turkish and not just another run of the mill circuit which could have been transplanted from anywhere?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:27 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 15):
But the circuit has no "character" and the vast expanse of bare earth for much of the way round is a bit disappointing. You can't beat circuits like Imola, Monza, or even Silverstone and Melbourne for that.

The bare earth is because they hadn't had a chance to do any landscaping as they rush to finish the main pats of the circuit. They actually stated that it would look a bit messy on appearance this year a few weeks back.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 16):
Don't you think thats to make the circuit look Turkish

Well the Fosters advertising certainly didn't. Surprsed they allowed alcohol advertsing in a muslim country - even a more liberal one......
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:40 pm

Hey everyone,

I also share the feeling of the first curves. It looked very similar to interlagos, not only the curves themselves, but also the slope, at tleast that's what it looked like on camera.

i also wanted to mention another issue: So many people here bash Ferrari because they always favoured MS, and in some races, team orders made RB let MS pass him to win the race. This has been extremely criticized.
Now, how come no one is mentioning the same about Alonso? Was it in the third lap that they didi it? How come no one is criticizing Renault fot that?

regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:45 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
Was it in the third lap that they didi it? How come no one is criticizing Renault fot that?

Because they did it in the third lap when Fernado was obviously faster than Fisi and not in the closing laps of a GP which result was almost certain (see where I'm going  Wink )

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3878
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:38 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
How come no one is criticizing Renault fot that?

Because they told Alonso to pass Fisi, as opposed to telling Fisi to lose a place. It's a bit of a difference...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:56 pm

traffic sucks traffic sucks!!!
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The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 20):
Because they told Alonso to pass Fisi, as opposed to telling Fisi to lose a place. It's a bit of a difference...

Where is the difference? It's team orders just put in a "politically correct" way. Instead of telling Fisi to slow down, they told Alonso to pass him, and I'm sure that Fisi did not give his 100% to not alow Alonso to pass him, am I correct? therefore, again, it is the same thing  Smile
regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
Where is the difference?

If Fisi wanted to, he could have defended the position as he wasn't being told to let Alonso pass.
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 23):
If Fisi wanted to, he could have defended the position as he wasn't being told to let Alonso pass.

Come on! it's the same thing! Just said in another way. Oh, and btw, I'm not saying its wrong for a team to have team orders. They put millions $$ in and it's obvious that for the team Alonso should finish each race at the top to ensure the championship, but it's just frustrating to see that when Ferrari did it, they were a$$ holes, but if renault does it, it's ok.
You really think that Fisi did not let him pass?  Wink

regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:53 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 24):
Come on! it's the same thing! Just said in another way.

Your right it is the same thing. But doing it this way dosn't violate the rules.
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 25):
Your right it is the same thing. But doing it this way dosn't violate the rules.

Should we expect rules to change for next season, or for the upcoming GP's? In any case, Bill, you seem to be the only one to say that it's the same  Smile

regards

ps: you are obviously a Kimi fan ... do you think he can make it? (I hope so!)
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:41 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 24):
Come on! it's the same thing! Just said in another way. Oh, and btw, I'm not saying its wrong for a team to have team orders. They put millions $$ in and it's obvious that for the team Alonso should finish each race at the top to ensure the championship, but it's just frustrating to see that when Ferrari did it, they were a$$ holes, but if renault does it, it's ok.
You really think that Fisi did not let him pass?



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 25):
Your right it is the same thing. But doing it this way dosn't violate the rules.

I am in favor of team rules in this instance. So what if Renault had blatantly asked him to move out the way and let Alonso past? (yeah i know they didn't) By them doing that they are giving us a RACE, Fisi holding up Alonso just lets Raikkonen scamper off building a lead, letting Alonso chase him down, you can guarantee they will race each other as they both want and could win the championship.

When Ferrari use team orders its different, they just want MS winning. If Rubino jumped Michael at the start (on a 1-2 grid) you could be sure that he would be made to let Michael past. Thats all Ferrari are interested in. There is no benefits to team orders for spectators when Ferrari use them.

Adam

[Edited 2005-08-24 09:44:13]
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 26):
Should we expect rules to change for next season, or for the upcoming GP's? In any case, Bill, you seem to be the only one to say that it's the same

I doubt we will see the rules change. It wasn't a blatant "Fisi move over and let Alonso pass" it was a "Your faster then Fisi overtake him". The FIA knows whats going on, but theres nothing they can do about it. Teams use code words to circumvent the rules. As long as its not being made obvious that its happening then theres not a real lot the FIA can do. The only thing they can do, and its totally ridiculous, is to ban a driver from passing his team mate which is just stupid.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 26):
ps: you are obviously a Kimi fan ... do you think he can make it? (I hope so!)

I'd like to think he can. I like Alonso, but I'm a diehard McLaren fan and have been for sometime. If Kimi wasn't in the game I'd be rooting for Alonso. I think McLaren can do it but they need a few things to go there way. They need Alonso to have a few DNF's and Kimi needs to win those races, but the McLaren (more like Mercedes) reliability is always suspect, you never know. As much as I want Kimi to win, its more then likley going to be Alonso.
 
EddieGunsmoke
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:02 pm

Funny how Alonso always seems to have such luck. He have won two races when Kimi was in the lead but had to retire due to car problems, and one race this year ( I don't remember whitch) he started the race on 6th place I think and won without overtaking one single car. Everybody in front of him had to retire due to diffrent problems. And now this with Montoya. I really hope Kimi will win the championship. Very unlikely though.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 29):
Funny how Alonso always seems to have such luck.

Often that sort of thing is the luck of Champions  Wink

Likewise there have been some brilliant drivers (and other sportsmen) who have had appalling luck and never won what their talent deserved.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
EddieGunsmoke
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:30 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 30):
Often that sort of thing is the luck of Champions

I knew that would come! Wink Anyway, he has just as much luck as Kimi has bad luck.
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 28):
but the McLaren (more like Mercedes) reliability is always suspect,

I'd like to add the influence of JPM. He is screwing up a lot allowing Alonso to finish in front of him and therefore it does not help Kimi.

Quoting BA757 (Reply 27):
By them doing that they are giving us a RACE, Fisi holding up Alonso just lets Raikkonen scamper off building a lead, letting Alonso chase him down, you can guarantee they will race each other as they both want and could win the championship.

When Ferrari use team orders its different, they just want MS winning

Yes, Ferrari want MS to win, since that is where they invested the most, but Renault is doing the same, they want Alonso to win because he is the one who can win the champioship. For money or for whatever reasons, there are clear team orders. In Ferrari's case, it's MS to win, in Renault, its Alonso to win. Possibly different reasons, but same thing overall
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 32):
I'd like to add the influence of JPM. He is screwing up a lot allowing Alonso to finish in front of him and therefore it does not help Kimi.

Well Montoya has always been this kind of driver ... fast and irratic and sometimes inconsistent. Let's not forget Alonso is driving out of his skin to be where he is.

I hope Alonso hangs on and wins this one, I rather like the guy. It's going to be tough though, one bad move and Kimi will win it, with the oodles of car speed McLaren has at the moment.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

RE: F1 Turkey

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:32 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 32):
In Ferrari's case, it's MS to win, in Renault, its Alonso to win. Possibly different reasons, but same thing overall

Yes it is, and its acceptable in these circumstances - it wasn't like making RB in 1st move over and let MS get into 1st... it was for Alonso to get in front of Fisi - it was for what, 3rd or 4th?

Like I said, its acceptable, it hardly deprived us of a race like a Ferrari situation would have...

Adam
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: F1 Turkey

Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting BA757 (Reply 34):
Yes it is, and its acceptable in these circumstances - it wasn't like making RB in 1st move over and let MS get into 1st... it was for Alonso to get in front of Fisi - it was for what, 3rd or 4th?

At the end, 2nd  Wink

Quoting BA757 (Reply 34):
Like I said, its acceptable, it hardly deprived us of a race like a Ferrari situation would have...

If I am reading you properly, that's just because when Ferrari did it, they were 2 steps ahead of the rest, so it was either of the drivers to win, in this case it gave us, the fans, a race because Alonso had to fight to get Kimi

regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...

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