N1120A
Topic Author
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Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:54 am

Well, there is a negative thread on the topic, so I thought I would start a positive one. "Modern Times" here is defined as The 20th/21st century. Here is my list, with one addition from the one I put on the other.

List of best leaders of modern (20th century) times
Theodore Roosevelt
Franklin Roosevelt
Bill Clinton
Mohammad Mossadeq
Ehud Barak
Jimmy Carter
Rafik Hariri
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:15 am

In no particular order . . . .

Ronald Reagan

Franklin Roosevelt

Mohandus Ghandi

Nelson Mandela

Margaret Thatcher
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NWAFA
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:20 am

Ghandi
Mother Theresa (Im not even catholic)
Bill Clinton
Jimmy Carter
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halls120
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting N1120A (Thread starter):
Well, there is a negative thread on the topic, so I thought I would start a positive one. "Modern Times" here is defined as The 20th/21st century. Here is my list, with one addition from the one I put on the other.

List of best leaders of modern (20th century) times
Theodore Roosevelt
Franklin Roosevelt
Bill Clinton
Mohammad Mossadeq
Ehud Barak
Jimmy Carter
Rafik Hariri

Jimmy Carter?!?!? Where's my barf bag? While Mr. Carter has distinguished himself with his many contributions as an ex-President, he was ridden out of town on a rail in 1980. And I even voted for the guy in 1976.

Carter was the very antithesis of a leader. Instead of being a visionary, he was a micromanager. Instead of a positive motivating force, he was a depressing negativist. He was so weak that in 1980, he was challenged for reelection within his own party. What were the sucessess of his short administration? Other than high inflation, a miserable economy, and standing by helplessly as American diplomats were held hostage by an illegal group of thugs?

Perhaps he was a popular leader from your side of the Atlantic, but over here he was such an embarrassment that the Democratic Party avoided him for years - as if he had leprosy.

And while I agree that Bill Clinton was an effective leader, the absence or Ronald Reagan illustrates that your choices were ideologically tainted. Even if you didn't like the man or his politics, he was a very successful leader.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MD-90
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:05 am

Franklin Roosevelt was one of the worst of the 20th Century.

Personally, I admire Congressman Ron Paul, R-Texas.
 
Ibhayi
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:19 am

Nelson Mandela was a great man and historian, great for leading a nation during a struggle and an idealist but I dont think the best president ever, he showed all the african presidents that u build a better legacy of ur self if u step down, after 1 term and he drafted the maximum tiem a person can be president in south africa for is 2 terms.

Its hard to say with him cause he was a good man and leader and appointed some people who were absolute wankers. yet I think his options were very very limited, so if youy include that then we was phenominal, yet know one really knows.

I would have to say Thabo Mbeki, how he delicately balances all the forces to keep them happy is unbelievable and he occassionally lets his iron fist show up, like now with his hard line approach. He doesnt piss off the tri-party alliance too much but does enough to keep them in check. Dont piss him off.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:30 am

-Ronald Reagan - what a motivator
-JFK - had the cahones to make policy from what he thought from his own self
-Winston Churchill - perhaps eccentric, but inspirational during WWII
-Douglas MacArthur - out of the top 3 - Mac, George Marshall and Eisenhower, Mac was the best. Ike was a great general, but was a bit too mellow as a President. Marshall drew up battle plans in war that sometimes were unrealistic (a la D-Day concerning the Airborne troops), but MacArthur whipped the Japanese at their own game, repelled the N. Korean/Chinese invasion of S. Korea, and might have crushed China had he been allowed.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
GBan
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting N1120A (Thread starter):
Rafik Hariri

Looks like I should go to school again. Who's that?
 
Sabena332
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 7):
Quoting N1120A (Thread starter):
Rafik Hariri

Looks like I should go to school again. Who's that?

I am not sure but I think he was a President of Lebanon (I can be completely wrong though).

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
GBan
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 8):
I am not sure but I think he was a President of Lebanon (I can be completely wrong though).

You are completely right:

http://www.hariri.info/
 
Sabena332
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 9):
You are completely right:

http://www.hariri.info/

Thanks for the link! Now I remember, he got killed not too long ago, thus I remember his name from the TV news and newspapers.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
trijetfan1
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:14 am

In no particular order

Harry S. Truman
Ronald Reagan
Winston Churchill
Gerald Ford
John Kennedy
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soyuzavia
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:14 am

Nelson Mandela is the best leader not only of modern times, but of all time. He is the top of this list. Gandhi is also right up there. As is Mossadegh.

Other great leaders, in my book, include the Dalai Lama, Eleanor Roosevelt (the first female US President!), Martin Luther King Jr.

Of the more polarising leaders I would include

* Gough Whitlam - for his 'social' reforms - the Liberals hate him, even though they all like the policies he introduced such as 'free' university education, medicare, etc.
* Paul Keating - just for his ability to piss off the British press -- the Lizard of Oz indeed!
* David Lange - for the foresight of making NZ a nuclear free zone
 
11Bravo
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:24 am

Churchill
FDR
JFK
Truman
Reagan
Clinton

The one person who I don't see on anyone's list that really should be there is Mikhail Gorbachev. The collapse of the Soviet Union had the potential to be really ugly. Although the demise of the USSR was inevitable, I think we’re all lucky we didn’t see a massive civil war or worse. I think Gorbachev’s leadership was critical to keeping a potentially disastrous situation under control. He was a communist, and I don’t like that much, but I’m grateful he was running that show when the wheels finally came off.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 6):
MacArthur whipped the Japanese at their own game, repelled the N. Korean/Chinese invasion of S. Korea, and might have crushed China had he been allowed

Thank god this madman was sacked soon enough not to be allowed his idea of dropping 30 nukes on China to materialize.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
Other great leaders, in my book, include the Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama, THE enemy of Chinese communists in Soyuzophile's book? Right next to your other heroes like Brezhnev, Lenin or Mao I suppose? What a disgrace.

[Edited 2005-08-23 00:29:43]
 
Arniepie
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:46 am

Personal bests list (no particular order)
-IKE
-FDR
-Churchill
-KOHL
-Mandela
-
[edit post]
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 5):
Franklin Roosevelt was one of the worst of the 20th Century.

Personally, I admire Congressman Ron Paul, R-Texas.

What did Roosevelt do that was so awful?

My List (in no particular order):

Harry S Truman
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Winston Churchill
Charles De Gaulle
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Adlai Stevenson (not a leader, but he helped save the world from Nuclear War, so I feel he deserves mention)
General Dwight Eisenhower
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:17 am

Ghandi
Dalai Lama
Pope John Paulus II
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PSA53
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Reply 11):
Gerald Ford

Ford knew tha his administration was dead if didn't
part Nixon.A very hard choice to make.I give him that.


Mine:
JFK-For keeping cool during the Cuban missile crises.(See the movie
"Thirteen Days." Great film).

Reagan-not only the "great communicator" but bluff the Soviets with SDI.

Pope John Paul II-reaching and bridging people

Winston Churchill- For his awesome leadership,under fire in WW2.
The Lusitania is a another matter.

Chester Nimitz- Pacific WW2,restored the fleet at Pearl,put back
confidence in his service personal,and with FDR's
main attention in the Atlantic,managed
to turn the Pacific war against Japan at Midway.

Martin Lurther King-
Read my signature.A man making changes using peaceful

means to do it.

[Edited 2005-08-23 03:03:00]

[Edited 2005-08-23 03:05:06]
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
* Gough Whitlam - for his 'social' reforms - the Liberals hate him, even though they all like the policies he introduced such as 'free' university education, medicare, etc.
* Paul Keating - just for his ability to piss off the British press -- the Lizard of Oz indeed!

I....think I'm in love, Soyuzavia.

Although I would have to include Sir Les Patterson in that list.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
aa757first
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
Eleanor Roosevelt (the first female US President!)

I wasn't aware Eleanor Roosevelt was a president.

AAndrew

Edit: Why did you even mention her? It's pretty clear that you don't know very much about her.

[Edited 2005-08-23 03:24:16]
 
AR1300
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:59 am

Chavez.






















Just Kidding Big grin

Mike
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allstarflyer
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 14):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 6):
MacArthur whipped the Japanese at their own game, repelled the N. Korean/Chinese invasion of S. Korea, and might have crushed China had he been allowed

Thank god this madman was sacked soon enough not to be allowed his idea of dropping 30 nukes on China to materialize.

He probably wouldn not have needed such. He most likely would have been able to juke the Chinese out of their pants, much like a chessmaster over his student.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 18):
Reagan-not only the "great communicator" but bluff the Soviets with SDI.

You know, this is something that Reagan lovers always proclaim, but it is actually a load of rubbish. If the Soviets were taken in by the Star Wars program, several things would have happened.

1) Soviet military expenditure would have gone thru the roof. It didn't! It stayed about the same, and the sectors of the military that expenditure would have increased, a decrease in expenditure was experienced.
2) Gorbachev would not have dismissed the SDI as a theoretical threat - even as a theoretical threat he dismissed it Big grin
Gorbachev told Reagan that it was a useless program, but if he wanted to spend money on it, he could. Gorbachev was not taken in.
2) Glasnost and perestroika would never have happened!

Reagan has as much influence on the breakup of the USSR, as I do in controlling the world economy. In other words, zero.

The only gullible ones are the people who actually believe the Soviets were fooled by talk of the SDI.
 
SpinalTap
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:15 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
David Lange - for the foresight of making NZ a nuclear free zone

While this may be considered a positive by some the 20%+ interest rates were certainly not.
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:18 pm

Franklin Deleano Roosevelt.

The list stops there, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe throw in Churchill.

As for Reagan, he's given far too much credit for the breakup of the USSR. The USSR was collapsing from it's 70-year old lie by the time Reagan came to office. He just was lucky to be there near the end, and the far right, wanting a hero on the level of FDR, annointed Reagan as such, far beyond what he deserved.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Newark777
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:25 pm

Eleanor Roosevelt (the first female US President!)

 rotfl   rotfl 

Can't ... stop ... laughing!

BTW If you haven't heard already, Kareem Abdul Jabar was also the first black president.  Wink

Harry
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N1120A
Topic Author
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Perhaps he was a popular leader from your side of the Atlantic

You really need to pay at least a scad of attention

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Even if you didn't like the man or his politics, he was a very successful leader.

He was a horrible president. I don't care how effective a politician he was, it was his administration that was both directly and indirectly responsible for the millions dead in Iran and Iraq, the tyranny of Saddam Hussain, the support of Manuel Noriega, the collapse of the stock market and much more.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
but over here he was such an embarrassment that the Democratic Party avoided him for years

As a lifelong Democrat, I am embarassed by the treatment of President Carter, as his policies were absolutely visionary

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Instead of being a visionary, he was a micromanager.

What you describe as "micromanagement" was actually a lot of vision

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
Franklin Roosevelt was one of the worst of the 20th Century.

Why? Because he helped poor people?  sarcastic 

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Reply 11):
Gerald Ford

 rotfl  rotfl 

You his grandkid or something?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:53 pm

Of course she wasn't the president, and my including Eleanor was more tongue in cheek, because FDR got most of the black vote not because of his own policies (which was quite anti-black), but because of her stance on black rights. In effect, the blacks voted for her for president.

Although she was never president, she could have made a great one. She had one thing that nearly every US president of the modern era has lacked -- foresight -- she was at least 20 years ahead of her time, particularly on issues of gender and racial equality.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:27 pm

Pope John Paul II
Ronald Reagan
Lek Walensa
George Patton
Rudy Guliani
Margaret Thatcher
Vince Lombardi
Ghandi
Donovan McNabb

[Edited 2005-08-23 06:35:40]
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
panam330
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:37 pm

Bill Clinton, without a doubt.
Rudolph Giuliani (come on Rudy, run for Pres!)
FDR
Ronald Reagan
John F. Kennedy

I don't follow international politics much, unforunately, so I'm only listing excellent leaders in the United States.

EDIT: I forgot to add Stephen Wolf  Wink.

[Edited 2005-08-23 06:38:37]
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:49 pm



What a pragmatic leader she was - tirelessly working for the good of the common man. Her intellect was far reaching and her grasp of modern issues unparalleled.

I did but see her passing by...

 Wink

QFF

[Edited 2005-08-23 07:10:59]
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 24):
While this may be considered a positive by some the 20%+ interest rates were certainly not.

If it were not for the reforms instituted by the Lange government, NZ would still be an economic backwater. There were certinaly problems at the time (I for one believe that the Rogernomics reforms were pushed through much too quickly - something Lange also believed, and which eventually lead to his resignation), but New Zealand wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is now if it wasn't for that government.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:12 pm

Quoting N1120A (Thread starter):
Jimmy Carter

Sorry, a good man in his time but also one of the very worst presidents ever! His recent actions have me questioning his very sanity.

FWIW, here's the first few that pop to mind:

Reagan
Churchill
Teddy R(if you count him as modern times, borderline IMH)
FDR
George Low(Sr. not Jr.) aka Green Hornet
Walt Disney
Bill Gates(don't like him but it's a fact)
MLKJ
Omar Bradley
Juan Trippe


Hon Mentions

Clinton - I just can't quite get over his arrogance and even worse over dependance on polls
Daniel Ortega - The unusual Marxist who didn't f the whole thing up, allowed fair elections, and peacefully left the presidency to become an opposition pol when he lost.
JFK
Ike
Lech Walesa
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ryanb741
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:52 pm

Margaret Thatcher - gave the troublesome unions what for and took no crap from anybody.

Ronald Reagan - Legend

Mao Tse Tung - heroic march through China

Bill Clinton - did an awesome PR job for the USA

Ariel Sharon - initiated the dismantling of illegal Jewish settlements in Palestine despite widespread opposition, plus tempering his image as a right winger to a more moderate, intelligent leader of Israel

General Pervez Musharraf - for combatting Indian imperialism in Kashmir and assisting in the war against terror whilst keep the fundamentalists at bay

Taksin Shinawatra - for revolutionalising Thai politics, leading CEO style and traging the country towards fully developed status in a few short years
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
BA
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:04 pm

GBan and Sabena332,

Rafic Hariri was a former Lebanese Prime Minister. He was credited for rebuilding Beirut after the civil war, almost single handedly by constructing a new airport (two new runways, brand new terminal), rebuilding the Port of Beirut, the largest port on the Eastern Mediterranean, improving Lebanon's communication lines and sewage systems, and built many new roads (he expanded the freeway system). Plus a lot more.

He also educated more than 33,000 Lebanese by sending them to some of the best universities in the US, UK, France, and Canada through his non-profit organization, Hariri Foundation which gave out scholarships, all from his own pocket.

Rafic Hariri was assassinated in a huge explosion in Beirut on February 14, 2005 when his motorcade was targeted.



"What we need now is dedication, team-work and the renewal of the confidence of the Lebanese, the Arab world and the international community in Lebanon. Even more, we need to renew our allegiance to the established values of national harmony, freedom, and democracy. Above all, we need vision, vision, and vision." Rafic Hariri

Simply put, Rafic Hariri was a man with a vision, who deeply cared about his country and his people. He was a philanthropist who gave more than anyone could have ever given back to him.

Beirut's airport, whom he constructed, was renamed Rafic Hariri International Airport in his memory.

May he rest in peace...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
OYRJA
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:08 pm

George W. Bush


 stirthepot 
The message you were about to post is too short and probably not of any higher value to the topic at hand. You should think long and hard before posting a message in this forum and make it detailed and a valuable addition to the topic discussed.

[Edited 2005-08-23 10:22:21]
 
flyAUA
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:20 pm

Not because I am a patriot (cus I'm not), but because I truly believe he's done a good job so far:



Same goes for Thomas Klestil, god bless him  tombstone 
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:43 pm

List of best leaders of modern (20th century) times

Franklin Roosevelt
Harry Truman
Mohammad Mossadeq
Clement Attlee
Charles deGaulle
Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
John F Kennedy
Willy Brandt
Houari Boumediène
Abdulaziz Bouteflika
King Hussein bin Talal
Gamal Abdul Nasr
Anwar as-Sadat
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton
Rafik Hariri
Hosni Mubarak
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Jimmy Carter?!?!?

Jimmy Carter first of was the man of CampDavid. He was the only US-president in half a century who was even handed and fair in MidEastern politics. He already as president worked for peace. He also had a decent sense for the environment. He launched the de-regulation of civil aviation. He unfortunately run into heavy problems in regard to Iran.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:59 pm

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 34):

Wow, I must differ with you, as your list is populated with some real stinkers:

MAO?!?! A demagogue whose own people came near the bottom of his agenda.

Thatcher? The UK is still recovering from her destruction of public services (among other things)

Sharon? Just today, he promised the right wingers he would continue to expand settlements in the West Bank to compensate for Gaza. A canny polititian, I'll give you that. But a moderate or a man with a vision? No.

As for REAGAN:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
the absence or Ronald Reagan illustrates that your choices were ideologically tainted.

Can anyone who put him on their list explain why he was a "great leader" besides being a popular speaker who could rally support behind his charisma? I grant this is one part of being a great leader (and that's why, despite the fact that I find Jimmy Carter's ideas inspiring, I think he clearly failed to live up to his potential as a "leader"). However, charisma and popular support alone does not make a "great" leader. After all, Hitler was good at that part. It also takes good policies and ideas, and those, Reagan had a dearth of. For crying out loud, the man believed that trees caused air pollution! For a better list of his legacy, see N1120a's reply:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
He was a horrible president. I don't care how effective a politician he was, it was his administration that was both directly and indirectly responsible for the millions dead in Iran and Iraq, the tyranny of Saddam Hussain, the support of Manuel Noriega, the collapse of the stock market and much more.

11 bravo:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 13):
The one person who I don't see on anyone's list that really should be there is Mikhail Gorbachev.

Absolutely agree. The man made mistakes, as many do. But I have immense respect for his willingness to be the human, responsible face of change during a period when he could have hidden behind communist party machinery and dug in to resist fate. Very few leaders consciously preside over their own loss of power because they feel it is the only way forward, and he did.

So my list:

--Ghandi
--MLK, jr. (two whose ideas inspire me deeply)
--FDR (some very unpleasant aspects of the man, but on the whole, a great leader at a difficult time) His domestic legacy impresses me more than his international prowess in the long run.
--Gorbachev

It's a short list, but great leaders are rare (and always flawed too). Churchill for example was a fabulous wartime leader in WWII, but his peacetime ideas and values are very problematic. Maybe I'll add more people later if they come to mind.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
mrniji
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 29):
Pope John Paul II
Ronald Reagan
Rudy Guliani
Margaret Thatcher

The question was about the BEST leaders Big grin

Quoting Bhmbaglock (Reply 33):
Walt Disney

 rotfl 

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 34):
General Pervez Musharraf - for combatting Indian imperialism in Kashmir

??? Indian imperialism in Kashmir - did the ISI (Inter State Intelligence or so, the Pakistani secret service) hire you??  silly   rotfl  - check some facts before drawing up your baseless conclusions  Wink

Let me add some names to the list, with emphasis on statesmen who are not from the West

- Nehru (just a brilliant statesman!)
- leaders of the NAM (for not being torn between the responsible for the cold war)
- Manmohan Singh (the role modell for a head of government)
- Mandela (as mentioned by others)
- Martin Luther King (!)
- Barak
- The Jordanian King who died couple of years ago and whose name I can't recall at the moment (for haing a different approach to the ME)
- Lula (for being down to earth - so my impression)
- Chavez (for putting us Americans in our limits)
- Willy Brandt (an amazing statesman!)
- Jimmy Carter (though many Americans hate him)
- Kennedy

So much for now
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
AR1300
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 41):
The Jordanian King who died couple of years ago and whose name I can't recall at the moment (for haing a different approach to the ME)

King Abdullah, I think.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 41):
Chavez (for putting us Americans in our limits)

...and venezuelans in a fearsome pro-socialist tirany without ANY liberties.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 38):
Gamal Abdul Nasr

Sure, add Hitler and Stalin to that list too.  Yeah sure
That guy was a bastard that ruined Egypt.My GP's had to leave(under a three day ultimatum and a Federal size OF ALL THEIR BELONGINGS AND PROPERTIES, because they were Jewish) because of him.They came backa fterwards to realize that nothing was left.King Faruk was corrupt but kind.

Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
mrniji
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:32 pm

Mike, though I agree with most of your objections: that;s why I gave reasons.. there is hardly an all-perfect statesman, it depends on the question/perspectives.. f.i. Nasr is also implicitely in my list for the NAM (Non-Aligned Movement). I can also argue why people have put X in their respective lists, because his position is so or so...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 42):
King Abdullah, I think

King Abdullah I was assassinated in 1948 in Jerusalem, and King Abdullah II is the present leader of Jordan. The first indeed WAS a great statesman, and "Mark II" is on its way to become a great one also. The one apparently meant was King Hussein bin Talal, the grandson of King Abdullah I (King Talal had to resign for health reasons after a reign of a few months)

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 42):
Gamal Abdul Nasr

of course made his mistakes. But built up industry, education, infrastructure. He was the one behind the Aswan Dam. He in spite of various failures like Palestine, too much socialism etc. was a great leader. To compare him with Stalin and Hitler is nonsense. Those two not only made some "mistakes" ! Your GP would not only have lost some money IF having been confronted by either of them ! I know a Jewish-Israeli businessman who now lives in Tel Aviv and who stayed in Egypt and worked and lived in Cairo until 1958 . He criticizes Nasr for the mistakes mentioned above, and AFTER 1962 (after a spell in Livorno) had to see the man as a political adversary of his new country, but keeps fair nevertheless.
 
L410Turbolet
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Why? Because he [FDR] helped poor people?

No because the outcome of the WW2 thanks to his foreign policies was a disaster.

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 34):
Mao Tse Tung - heroic march through China

Heroic? OK, so he did this trek across China. BFD. How 'about his other "achievements" such as the Great Leap Forward (well backwards actually) with tens of millions dead left. He's no different than Hitler, Stalin or Kim 1 & 2.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 41):
Chavez



Quoting Mrniji (Reply 43):
.. there is hardly an all-perfect statesman, it depends on the question/perspectives

Sure, one can argue about the pluses and minuses of policies of civilized politicians like e.g. Clinton, but to put an outright thug like Chavez on list of "best" leaders is just bizarre.

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 34):
General Pervez Musharraf

Is being Bush administration-friendly dictator all what's needed to be a good leader?
A dictator playing with nukes battling "Indian imperialism"... year right
 Yeah sure
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:28 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 45):
Sure, one can argue about the pluses and minuses of policies of civilized politicians like e.g. Clinton, but to put an outright thug like Chavez on list of "best" leaders is just bizarre.

Hence my amendment to the list, limiting this to thas issue
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
BA380
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:30 pm

John Major

History's Greatest War and Peacetine Leader.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 41):
The Jordanian King who died couple of years ago and whose name I can't recall at the moment

Yes as AR1300 said, King Abdullah. He too was a great leader  Smile
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Banco
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RE: Who Is The Best Leader Of Modern Times

Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:15 pm

Not a political leader, but a leader of men. Not that modern either, but I suppose 20th century more or less counts. Just to throw into the mix:

Ernest Shackleton. His leadership skills were truly extraordinary.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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