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clickhappy
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Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:27 am

Interesting read from the Jerusalem Newswire

Katrina - The fist of God?

...

As today unfolds we are bracing to see wind and water pounding homes, whole communities, into the ground.

Is this some sort of bizarre coincidence? Not for those who believe in the God of the Bible and the immutability of His Word.

What America is about to experience is the lifting of God’s hand of protection; the implementation of His judgment on the nation most responsible for endangering the land and people of Israel.

The Bible talks about Him shaking His fist over bodies of water, and striking them.

...

“It is a fact that Israel’s very existence is in grave danger, because of our nation’s sponsorship of 'land for peace' plans, which have led her to the brink of war,” writes US author William R. Koenig, in his 2004 book Eye to Eye– Facing the consequences of dividing Israel. (21st Century Press, Springfield MO, ISBN 0-9728899-9-X).

On the cover, a grim-faced President Bush is shown looking warily at a massive hurricane threatening his country.

Koenig writes, in a book listing major natural and man-made disasters experienced by the USA during its peace-process efforts in the Middle East:

“America is now experiencing the consequences (curses) of Middle East policies, which have been opposed to God’s Word and to the preservation of His covenant land.”




Yikes. A pretty interesting point of view. Do you believe it?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:29 am

 
B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:30 am

Israel is not threatened by this peace process, I'm sorry but thats so ridiculous. If it fails, it fails, but at least Israel can once again show how they have tried to follow their side of the agreement.

I guess every natural/man-made disaster in history all have reasons behind them?
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
A pretty interesting point of view. Do you believe it?

Pretty damm stupid point of view if you ask me.
So then GOD in no way is imparcial, he choose some people over others....right
Way to go Mr.God, very mature way of thinking.

So tell me, some people die(RIP) because some others didn´t suport a third person, becuase this third person wanted to remove some forth population, so there could be less violence in their land.

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Is this some sort of bizarre coincidence? Not for those who believe in the God of the Bible and the immutability of His Word.

some things just get solved with a real nice ass whiping
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TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:00 am

I thought the photo queue was backed up?
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SlamClick
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:23 am

Half a dozen hurricanes occur every year down that way - have done for longer than humans have been around to watch them. We build a settlement there, over the centuries it grows into a city. Eventually it gets in the way of one of the hurricanes. And this fool thinks it is God's punishment?

What did he believe last year when they didn't get hit?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Logan22L
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:32 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Do you believe it?

What a load of rubbish. It's perhaps one of the most ridiculous theories ever presented on A.net, and that's saying something.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
kanebear
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:46 am

America HASN'T supported Israel? By what metric?? Whomever wrote this needs an 'attitude adjustment' on the top of the head.
 
JMV
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:46 am

How does this guy explain hurricanes or other natural disasters in the US before 1948?  boggled 
Google begins where my brain ends! ©
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting JMV (Reply 8):
How does this guy explain hurricanes or other natural disasters in the US before 1948?

also, what did black people did not do to God, so they had to be slavered for years and years and years.

Some people indeed do not worth their existence.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:01 am

BUT, the USA has supported Israeli absolutely thoroughly since the 60ies. The USA has allowed Israel EVERYTHING in all these years. THe USA alienated everybody else in its pursuit to secure the total strategic superiority of Israel. IF the USA gets "punished" for anything, it would be that extreme absolute one-sided support for that "State of Israel" !
 
B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:14 am

Thats nonsense, the US has never fully supported them. They even condemned Israel for the strike on Saddams nuclear plant in the 80s. The only actual support was during the Yum Kippor War when it looked like Israel might have lost. In general the US' support has been nothing but speeches and no action
 
Superfly
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:19 am

Is this just a really bad joke?  Wow!

The US blindly supports Israel.
Bring back the Concorde
 
BigOrange
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:24 am

I'm surprised Al-Qaeda haven't made a claim that this is the work of Allah, punishing the US for their "sins" in the Middle East!
 
MD-90
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
Thats nonsense, the US has never fully supported them.

That's rubbish. We've given them untold billions of dollars over the years, and shared high end military technology with them.

He sounds like an Israel-at-any-cost American nationalist to me.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 13):
I'm surprised Al-Qaeda haven't made a claim that this is the work of Allah, punishing the US for their "sins" in the Middle East!

THey did:


From Fox News and CNN:

"Islamic extremists rejoiced in America's misfortune, giving the storm a military rank and declaring in Internet chatter that "Private" Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With "God's help," they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year."

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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DC10GUY
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:14 am

I believe the hurricane was indeed the mighty hand of god punishing the USA. But the reason has nothing to do with Israel. God is pissed because of what American greed has done to the earth.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Superfly
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:16 am

I saw this bumper sticker:

God is coming and she is pissed!
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
In general the US' support has been nothing but speeches and no action

Quite to the contrary. Any criticizm coming from the USA towards Israel has been speeches and no action But the USA for years has covered the Israeli budget. A nation of less than 10 mio got 4 bio US$ per year (total figures) from the USA. And the US-government for decades has acted as if the Israeli Prime Minister would be a Minister of the USA or as if the USA was a protectorate of Israel. The USA for two decades criticized the build up of Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories, BUT in the end "compensated" Israel with even MORE support. With the noteable exception of noble Jimmy Carter, all US-presidents since the 60ies one-sidedly and totally supported the Israelis stances and positions
 
B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:33 am

All you can show is the money Israel gets each year. This is only because of the Camp David accords in which part of the agreement gives Egypt 2 billion as well. So again, the US has not fully supported Israel from day 1 and you have nothing to prove it.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 19):
and you have nothing to prove it.

 redflag   redflag   redflag   redflag   redflag 
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B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:40 am

Wow your comments were so superior to mine, you really put me in my place
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:42 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 21):
Wow your comments were so superior to mine, you really put me in my place

At least I can quote my source : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/graphics/smilies/redflag.gif
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Logan22L
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:47 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 19):
So again, the US has not fully supported Israel from day 1 and you have nothing to prove it.

Which aggressor should we support? At this point, it's hard to know who made the first strike, and who retaliated.

Let's look at this objectively:

1. The Jewish people have been persecuted for years.
2. The Palestinians occupied was has become Israel in 1948, IIRC.
3. No doubt the Palestinians felt displaced when the State of Israel was formed at that time. I remember reading that Yassir Arafat had a statue of a Native American on his desk for years. Now, I'm no great supporter of Yassir Arafat, but can you honestly blame a nation for feeling persecuted as well when told by the UN that they had to surrender land?

I realize that this is a sensitive issue, but I can see both sides. Problem is, I don't really have a solution. I will say this, though. Speak out against Israel and you're branded an anti-semite. Speak out against Palestine, and you're branded a racial profiler.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
PSA53
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 13):
I'm surprised Al-Qaeda haven't made a claim that this is the work of Allah, punishing the US for their "sins" in the Middle East!

Yeah!It wasn't done to their murderous way to claim the numbers.
What was God thinking here?
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B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:15 am

I'm not speaking out against Israel or Palestine. I wish for both people to live in peace like they did centuries ago. I am just correcting the myth that Israel was and always has been fully supported by America. Ironically, the IDF used military hardware from the Czech Republic to fight their Independence War. Imagine IDF pilots had to fly ME-109s. Where was this American support? So basically to sum it up, I think this article is ridiculous and a peace process is good for the nation even if it fails in the end, Israel can claim they upheld their end of the bargin like they did for the last peace process. And people need to stop believing everything they've read or heard on TV or heard from a friend and just assumed that is exactly the way it happened.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 25):
I am just correcting the myth

With what facts?

Quoting B744F (Reply 25):
And people need to stop believing everything they've read or heard on TV

Oh an listening to some guy who can't cite a source to save his life on the internet is better?  Yeah sure
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B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:23 am

Go ahead, find the facts. Here's my source, one of the many libraries out there

http://www.loc.gov/
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 27):
Go ahead, find the facts. Here's my source, one of the many libraries out there

http://www.loc.gov/

Oh can I have "vague evasive answers" for $1,00 Alex?

NAME A BOOK!!!
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B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:37 am

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/etc/cron.html

1981


Israel attacks Iraqi nuclear reactor

In a surprise raid, Israeli forces destroy the nuclear reactor at Osirak that the Iraqis had built with French assistance. Most countries, including the U.S., condemn Israel for violating Iraqi sovereignty.
 
B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:38 am

Six Days of War : June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East

by Michael B. Oren
 
B744F
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:40 am

The Secret War Against the Jews : How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People

by John Loftus, Mark Aarons
 
LY744
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:41 am

You guys are hillarious... You do realize this is probably as reliable a "news source" as your average TWA800-conspiracy-theory website. Talk about a waste of time.  Silly


LY744.
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Bobster2
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
What America is about to experience is the lifting of God’s hand of protection; the implementation of His judgment on the nation most responsible for endangering the land and people of Israel

America is experiencing the fundamental law of the universe: Shit happens.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 31):
The Secret War Against the Jews : How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People

by John Loftus, Mark Aarons



Quoting B744F (Reply 30):
Six Days of War : June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East

by Michael B. Oren



Quoting B744F (Reply 29):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/etc/cron.html

1981


Israel attacks Iraqi nuclear reactor

In a surprise raid, Israeli forces destroy the nuclear reactor at Osirak that the Iraqis had built with French assistance. Most countries, including the U.S., condemn Israel for violating Iraqi sovereignty.

Thank you Thank you Thank you... now was it THAT difficult?
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BA
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:53 am

This is a good book about US-Israeli relations:

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 16):
I believe the hurricane was indeed the mighty hand of god punishing the USA. But the reason has nothing to do with Israel. God is pissed because of what American greed has done to the earth.

So hero, why did this "God" of yours punish South Asia with the Tsunami?
Preach it.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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casinterest
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:08 pm

what a bunch of ludicrus statements.
Hurricanes happen, they are a force of nature.
Build a city below sea level, put in in an area near hurricane stomping grounds, and you have all the makings for a disaster. Anyway, with oil rising, and gas rising, new power sources will come along, and make oil worthless. Than all the raving idiots in the middle east will only have to look around at themselves and their worthless sand deserts and realize that the gold from below was the only thing that made the region worthwhile to anyone anymore. No more is it necessary for trade, no more is it necessary for culture. the only thing that keeps the middle east away from being a Sudan or ethiopia is the oil. When the oil starts to matter less the middle east will be worthless, except to some groups of religious fanatics and archeologists.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:12 pm

BA, don't you think that a book by a congressman who rants and raves about the mythical power of Jews might not be the best source for an objective book about US-Israel relations? Try Thomas Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem, a book that most people find to be fair and objective. Paul Findley is nothing more than disallusioned over losing his seat in Congress many years ago to Dick Durbin, who was more pro-Israel than he was.

Anyhow, about this article, there are tons of lunatics out there, what else is there to say. The same people who are classified as "Rightwing Christians" tend to be very, very pro-Israel to the point where they are outright racist to non-Jews/Christians (read: Muslims). Many of them truly do believe it is horrible and against God not to support Israel 100%. They also tend to view the world in simplistic terms. They view US support of Israel as getting on God's good side.

These people are one of the most important electoral groups; it is estimated that there are tens of millions of them (most are normal, not fanatics who believe God punished the US for specifically not supporting Israel) and their most important issue is Israel, not abortion or school prayer. These are the people who helped elected George W Bush back into office.

There is a conference of these pro-Israel Christians later in September in DC...Rudy Giuliani will be speaking.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:14 pm

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 3):
So then GOD in no way is imparcial, he choose some people over others....right

There are many Jews, many Christians, and many Muslims, who honestly and truely believe they're God's "Chosen people". And because they believe that, they can do many nasty things "in the name of God", and can believe that a certain even was done to vindicate THEM.

It's far from the truth, in reality, at least I think so, but there are many who do think like this.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rjpieces
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:17 pm

For an interesting article on Christian Zionism:
http://www.jewishmag.com/70mag/pipes/pipes.htm

Interesting sections:
Middle Easterners were widely puzzled in early 1994 when some leading American politicians, including Senator Jesse Helms (Republican of North Carolina) and Representative Newt Gingrich (Republican of Georgia) forwarded more assertive, tougher positions vis-a-vis the Palestinians than did the Government of Israel. They were, for example, more reluctant than Jerusalem to let U.S. funds go to the PLO and they displayed more eagerness to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

One Arabic newspaper, Ash-Sharq al-Awsat, captured the general bafflement when it observed that Likud, Israel’s more nationalist party, had “lost in Israel but it still rules supreme in Washington.”

One anti-Israel writer, Grace Halsell, recognizes this fact and deems Christian Zionists a “more dangerous” influence in Washington than are the Jewish Zionists. Put positively: other than the Israel Defense Forces, America’s Christian Zionists may be the Jewish state’s ultimate strategic asset.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BA
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:42 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
BA, don't you think that a book by a congressman who rants and raves about the mythical power of Jews might not be the best source for an objective book about US-Israel relations?



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Paul Findley is nothing more than disallusioned over losing his seat in Congress many years ago to Dick Durbin, who was more pro-Israel than he was.

Empty false accusations just like all other Israeli critics face. Norman G. Finkelstein, a Jewish American is accused of being a "holocaust denier" and a "self-hating Jew" when his grandparents were Holocaust victims themselves.

It's a little thing called "slander." An especially common sight between different parties competiting to win elections.

Slander is often taken too far and this leads to defamation.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Try Thomas Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem, a book that most people find to be fair and objective.

Not a bad book indeed, but I don't see how it is relevant to US-Israeli relations. It focuses on Lebanese/Israeli affairs, mainly during the civil war, and the US' involvement, especially in reference to Henry Kissinger.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 40):
For an interesting article on Christian Zionism:

Indeed, Christian Zionists are far worse than Jewish Zionists. I believe one of Norman Finkelstein's books talks about this.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rjpieces
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:38 pm

Not a bad book indeed, but I don't see how it is relevant to US-Israeli relations. It focuses on Lebanese/Israeli affairs, mainly during the civil war, and the US' involvement, especially in reference to Henry Kissinger.

The second half of the book deals with Israel, and it covers the US-Israel relationship and the problems that Israeli society faces fairly well. I don't know who you are referring to, but Kissinger is barely mentioned (if at all).

Indeed, Christian Zionists are far worse than Jewish Zionists. I believe one of Norman Finkelstein's books talks about this.

Well there are many many millions more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists..And they mostly vote Republican. Why do you say they are worse than Jewish Zionists? In my opinion, they are the special ones because it is natural for Jews to care about Israel. It is not natural, and certainly not required, for people like Tom DeLay to care so much about Israel.

Don't forget that the Jewish population in the United States is about 6 million, most of whom are secular and more interested in abortion rights than the fate of Israel. Christian Zionism is the future of the US-Israel relationship.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:55 pm

Instead of giving the incredibly ungrateful nation of Israel another red cent, send it our way so we can recover and rebuild our lives.

Signed,

The people of New Orleans, Biloxi, Gulfport, Mobile, and other affected areas

Get over yourself, Israel. You're not THAT important in the grand scheme of things. Neither is the Arab world, for that matter.

Best thing this country could ever do is to completely abandon everyone in the middle east. Both sides. Let the dust settle however it may. Let them fight their own battles, don't expect the US to always do it for them. No wonder we're in the mess we're in today... Yeah sure
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:03 pm

Is this Serious  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
rjpieces
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:21 pm

Best thing this country could ever do is to completely abandon everyone in the middle east. Both sides. Let the dust settle however it may. Let them fight their own battles,

Oh yes, that makes brilliant sense. And when the oil production is slowed up because of the numerous wars that would ensue after a US pullout (And I'm not even talking about Israel here), I'm sure you'll be bitching about high gas prices too, right?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
OYRJA
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:26 pm

This sounds like some rubbish I heard from another user in here which name I don't mention.
But he claimed that God punished NO because of Mardi Gras. And that is a sin according to God. I couldn't believe that he actually wrote it and was dead serious.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:57 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 46):
This sounds like some rubbish I heard from another user in here which name I don't mention.
But he claimed that God punished NO because of Mardi Gras. And that is a sin according to God. I couldn't believe that he actually wrote it and was dead serious.

Sounds like this thread: Fred Phelps Says 'Thank God For Katrina' (by Airbuzz Aug 31 2005 in Non Aviation)

You know the thing that's funny to me is if he was right, why hasn't EYW been taken out? Their Fantasy fest makes Mardi Gras look like preschool when it comes to hedonistic and sinful activities, and that's not even starting to touch on the fact it's 'MOSTLY' Gay...
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 19):
you have nothing to prove it.

nothing needs to be proven. It is self-evident and clear to the whole world
 
ly7e7
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RE: Has God Punished The US For Not Supporting Israel?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:46 am

Don't you all think that a stupid religious zealot's conspiracy published on a degenerate site, which is not even Israeli, is worth a discussion?
2 things are endless: ignorance and space

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