vanguard737
Posts: 523
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Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:12 am

Before reading my letter please understand that I am not the stereotypical close minded inbred American that the average European likes to picture we American's as. In fact, I am probably one of the few Americans, or Germans for that matter, to have bought a copy of the German Grundgesetzt simply to better understand German politics. I am working on my degree in Business Administration, posess an Associates in the German Language, and enjoy learning about European history, culture, and current events, Germany's in particular.

Okay, the following is an email I just sent to the Deutscher Bundesregierung. While I admit I allowed personal emotion to get the best of me at a couple points, I feel this email accurately summarizes and conveys many American's feeling towards Europe. My letter does not hide the fact that I am a Bush supporter, but the reality is unlike some people, especially Europeans, I don't really give a crap whether you like Bush or not. However, even if you don't like him I don't understand how any decent human being could not be offended by the remarks of German Environmental Minister Juergen Trittin, delivered as hundreds lay dead and unrecovered, and thousands more lay injured and homeless. For those who don't know, Mr. Trittin basically stated that America deserves Hurricane Katrina, and it is mainly President Bush's fault that the hurricane occured, because the USA did not sign Kyoto Protocol, a measure which at very best keeps world polution levels at their current state, while allowing China and India to pollute almost unchecked, the main reason why the US Congress voted overwhelmingly against it. Okay I am rambling, so here is the email. Please respond with your thoughts, whether you agree or disagree.
-------------
Chancellor Schoeder, Minister Trittin,
It saddens me to learn that as thousands of my fellow Americans lie injured and homeless with hundreds more dead due to Hurricane Katrina, that the Schroeder Administration, in particular Environmental Minister Jürgen Trittin waste no time in thrashing their European Far-Left Socialist Environmental Agenda into our citizens' wounds. Accept this fact or not, Mr. Trittin, but hurricanes have been occurring since the dawn of time, not since George W. Bush came into power. Europe is so apt to blame anything and everything possible on America and in particular President Bush. At this point I honestly question the sanity of your entire continent. Was it not Bavaria which lay in devastating flood waters just 2 years ago? Did America at any point during or after these floods accuse Mr. Schroeder of causing the floods? Of course not. To suggest an 'Act of God' could be harnessed or caused by a human being would be ludicrous, yet it does not keep you from saying the contrary, Mr. Trittin. After the Asian Tsunami the United States responded with one of the highest donation amounts, after Germany and Australia. At any point did you hear Mr. Bush respond "They should have had a warning system. It is their own fault, let them eat cake!"? No, you did not, because Mr. Bush is more genuinely concerned with conflict resolution and disaster relief than any European, self-extolling administration could ever wish to be. Europeans ponder how we Americans could be so closed-closed minded to environmental issues, yet never stop to consider the possibility that we are not closed-minded, simply weary of listening to the spiteful rhetoric which spews like venom from the mouth of the European Viper. Europeans are not viewed fondly in America these days, Mr. Schroeder, Mr. Trittin. What used to be a friendly European ally is showing itself to truly be a spiteful, loathing, coalition of states which will use any available chance to step on the United States of America in order to advance its own self-serving interests of creating a European Super-State. Perhaps the CDS/CSU victory, soon to come, will be what is needed for the extreme left in Germany to understand that it is out of touch with not only with the majority of German citizens, but with America, as well. I pray your cold souls will eventually be warmed to at least feel a slight amount of sadness for the victims of Katrina. Good day.
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Newark777
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:20 am

I hope you spelled his name right in the real one.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
flymia
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:25 am

I agree with most of your comments. I love Europe and most of the people which live there. But the remarks made by him were uncalled for.
As I also stated in post before Hurricanes as powerful and more powerful than Katrina have been happening for atleast hundred of millions of years. The Earth is a violent place. The Ice Age is the best example of this. The Earth will have Hurricanes and Floods for as long as this planet exist with or with out human life on it. Atleast wait a while if you really going to say this. And dont say that America deserved it. That is horrible to say America deserved it. A country which would help Germany if it ever had a large problem to deal with.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
komododx
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:30 am

I agree with most of your letter except in the fact that you generalize all Europeans as being or thinking like the Germans (at least Mr Schroeder and Mr Trittin) do. But I'm glad you wrote them that email. If you ever get a reply, please post it.

Stefano
I'm homeless and unemployed
 
LAS757300
Posts: 254
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:32 am

According to the US State Department, at least a dozen nations have offered their assistance. Some of them, presumably, are them dreaded Euro-socialist nations.
KMSP
 
LAS757300
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:34 am

I'm sure plenty of people blamed the recent European flooding on global warming. As said in the other thread, it's a "German" thing to do.
KMSP
 
searpqx
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:41 am

It's a very well written letter, and more power to you for taking the time to actually do something about the spiteful and ignorant ramblings of Trittin. My only fault with it; by implying all Europeans act this way, you fall into the same trap and operate at the same level as he did.

But as you say, you were expressing emotion, and I have to admit I wasn't feeling at all charitable when I read his diatribe yesterday.

Let us know what you hear back.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
flymia
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:56 am

Just to add some information here. The 10 most intense Hurricanes to make landfall in the United States. Notice the dates. Also they could not record much data before the mid 1880s.
1. Great Labor Day Hurricane Florida Keys 1935
2. Hurricane Camille 1969 Louisiana and Mississippi
3. Hurricane Andrew 1992. Southeast Florida.
4. 1919 Hurricane Florida and Texas.
5. Great Okeechobee Hurricane 1926 South Florida.
6. Hurricane Donna 1960 Whole Eastern US Coast.
7. Galvelston Hurricane 1900 Killed 8,000-12,000
8. Gran Isle Hurricane 1909 Louisiana
9. Louisiana 1915. New Orleans was hit and flooded.
10. Hurricane Carla 1961 Texas.
Currents change, weather changes, temperatures change, storm activity changes.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:01 pm

Hey everyone,

Thanks alot so far for your responses!

Glad to see I am not alone

Regards
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Thread starter):
Perhaps the CDS/CSU victory, soon to come, will be what is needed for the extreme left in Germany to understand that it is out of touch with not only with the majority of German citizens, but with America, as well.

I won't disrespect the American people like my idiot predecessors did.

Signed,
Angela Merkel, neues Deutsche Kanzlerin, eff. 19/09/05

Great letter...though I doubt you'll get a reply.

Apart from Tony Blair, and *maybe* the Italians, don't look for the Europeans to shed a tear over us. Schroeder doesn't give a shit, and Chirac certainly doesn't. Ironically, both of those fools are in deep shit politically at home, and their days are numbered.

Forget Europe. Don't waste your time or money there. Instead, visit the Red Cross website and please donate. I gave $150 tonight myself.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
artsyman
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:52 pm

Not only did none of these countries offer any support or Aid for Katrina, but now they are blaming Bush for it.... pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, I am all up for bashing Bush, and in most cases he is wrong and corrupt as well as daft, but this is a stretch.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:17 pm

Ok I think I will have to point our your problem. Just because the Germans think this way does not mean the rest of europe and the governments thing this way. I mean, for bloodys sake, the mentality of a German and a Polak is about as far as an American and a person from Bhutan  Silly
 
vanguard737
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:33 pm

Yes,

I understand opinions widely vary among European people, and I apologize for generalising. However, I am directing my scrutiny at European governments, IN PARTICULAR, that of Germany. That's all. I knoe many Europeans who are delightful people, I have no animosity towards them

Ted
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artsyman
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:39 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 11):
Just because the Germans think this way does not mean the rest of europe and the governments thing this way

Yet, not one of them has stood up and offered any help at all.

J
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:52 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Thread starter):
that I am not the stereotypical close minded inbred American that the average European likes to picture we American's as. In fact, I am probably one of the few Americans, or Germans for that matter, to have bought a copy of the German Grundgesetzt simply to better understand German politics.

Good to know, but why didn't you switch on your brain to full power before writing that email? Or get the whole story beforehand? Would have been good for you, good for us, and maybe there would now be one let's-bash-the- Europeans-one-more-time-thread less on this Forum.

Now here's the comments:

... in particular Environmental Minister Jürgen Trittin waste no time in thrashing their European Far-Left Socialist Environmental Agenda into our citizens' wounds...

Crap:
1. What does the discussion of global warming have to do with far-left?? You've disqualified yourself in the very first sentence!

2. Did you ever actually READ what Trittin said? No! Because if so, you'd know he talked about the situation of storms getting worse and global warming, he said it before and he'll repeat saying it in the future, no matter where it happens. In this case he was (as usual) stupid enough to bring GWB into context, but since 97% of all Germans firmly believe that Trittin is one of the most appalling assholes currently living in this country, so where's your point anyway??



...Europe is so apt to blame anything and everything possible on America and in particular President Bush. At this point I honestly question the sanity of your entire continent...

Your final act of disqualifying yourself...what a nonsense!! You sound just like Matt D ranting and raving like a lunatic in this other disgusting thread. How can I seriously talk to you when you do nothing but spewing forward hate and prejudice...I don't like my own government but I seriously doubt they'll take the time to answer to this rave!

...Was it not Bavaria which lay in devastating flood waters just 2 years ago?...

Actually it was a bit more than Bavaria and to quote from the other disgusting thread: Did America offer help? No! Because they know we didn't need it, just like the US of A right now: Your experts know damn well how to handle a situation as bad as this one..and no European country offered help???? Oh, do you know that for sure...would you bet on it?? I wouldn't bet a single cent on the USA NOT offering help on professional level, but since it was not needed, why make a public buzz?


...Did America at any point during or after these floods accuse Mr. Schroeder of causing the floods? Of course not. To suggest an 'Act of God' could be harnessed or caused by a human being would be ludicrous, yet it does not keep you from saying the contrary, Mr. Trittin...

Again, your tone is appalling: One asshole blubbers crap, and subsequently our whole continent has gone insane, right? Except the English and the Italians of course, because they were on your side in the Iraq war...excellent argueing, really brilliant, perfectly logical!

What do you actually expect them to answer to this?????????

...Mr. Bush is more genuinely concerned with conflict resolution and disaster relief than any European, self-extolling administration could ever wish to be...

Stop listening to Fox news, then come back again, that's all I have to say to this!

...listening to the spiteful rhetoric which spews like venom from the mouth of the European Viper. Europeans are not viewed fondly in America these days, Mr. Schroeder, Mr. Trittin...

the European viper ...ROFLMFAO!!!! That's absolutely great, even asshole Trittin will have a good laugh!!!


...What used to be a friendly European ally is showing itself to truly be a spiteful, loathing, coalition of states which will use any available chance to step on the United States of America in order to advance its own self-serving interests of creating a European Super-State...

Yes sure, reading serious sources does help sometimes, but who needs that when Fox delivers it in short easy to understand sentences, right? You're a student.....?  Yeah sure

...Perhaps the CDS/CSU victory, soon to come, will be what is needed for the extreme left in Germany to understand that it is out of touch with not only with the majority of German citizens, but with America, as well. I pray your cold souls will eventually be warmed to at least feel a slight amount of sadness for the victims of Katrina. Good day...

Yes, and it makes ME feel cold that a few years from now, YOU could be considered an "expert on Germany", talking on Fox News about us.

Does anyone actually wonder WHY transatlantic relationships have come down so much?? Because there's people like YOU in the USA and assholes like Trittin on this side of the Atlantic!!! Very sad!

Have a nice day studying Germany from 5,000 miles away using nothing but Fox News, Mr. Vanguard!
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Alessandro
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:57 pm

Artsyman, if you have to blame anyone, blame George Bush Sr, he refused to sign the Kyoto-protocol...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
artsyman
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 15):
Artsyman, if you have to blame anyone, blame George Bush Sr, he refused to sign the Kyoto-protocol...

and round and round we go....

How exactly you manage to blame either Bush for these is beyond me. If you look at the list of hurricanes, almost all the big ones were 50 years before either Bush.

God knows, I spend a lot of time trying to blame them for everything and in most cases succeed, but this one does not fly.

j
 
Alessandro
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:07 pm

I don´t agree, the previous top-10 (I refer to the most powerful, not lives lost or property damaged) was 3 of 10 during the 1960ies, 1 of 10 during the 1990ies. George Bush Snr was very active in politics during that period...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
cfalk
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:10 pm

I think GW Bush should go ahead and sign the damned Kyoto document. It would never get ratified by Congress anyway, and would give the Environuts something less to bitch about. But of course, they will find a way to twist it...

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:36 pm

Andreas

The hatred which I speak of is ever so evident in your tactless, immature ranting. All I can say is thank you for serving to strengthen my points!

I love especially how you invented things I did not say, and then counter-debated them, as if I had even said them! For example:

Quoting Andreas (Reply 14):
Again, your tone is appalling: One asshole blubbers crap, and subsequently our whole continent has gone insane, right? Except the English and the Italians of course, because they were on your side in the Iraq war...excellent argueing, really brilliant, perfectly logical!

EXCUSE ME!!?? Find one place in my post where I mentioned England or Italy!
Second, your continent has gone crazy not simply because of the hurricane, but because you blame most anything either on Bush, America, or Global Warming, it adds up after a while! And as I already clarified, when I say 'your continent', i am referring to the European media, and majority of Europe's leaders.

And my personal favorite:

Have a nice day studying Germany from 5,000 miles away using nothing but Fox News, Mr. Vanguard!


Way to assume, buddy! I guess a six monnth internship with Lufthansa in Frankfurt a.M. doesn't count? Nor does studying the German language, literature, history, or current event for the past six years? Nor does being a member of my school International Friendship Club in which I work with GERMAN foreign exchange students?

YES, and I am the asshole, Andreas.
Schoenen Tag

[Edited 2005-09-01 08:38:23]

[Edited 2005-09-01 08:41:07]
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Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
The hatred which I speak of is ever so evident in your tactless, immature ranting. All I can say is thank you for serving to strengthen my points!

We always try to please. YOU talking about hate of others...well, ok, I guess it's completely to talk to you anyway, you're caught in your little world of good and bad, black and white, USA and Germany and that's it. Fine, I've met enough people of your type, on both sides of the Atlantic, who indulge in verbal diarrhea...there's nothing to stop it, just let it out, and that's it!

btw: Look up the word "tact" in a dictionary...it's got nothing to do with music in this context  Wink

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
Second, your continent has gone crazy not simply because of the hurricane, but because you blame most anything either on Bush, America, or Global Warming, it adds up after a while! And as I already clarified, when I say 'your continent', i am referring to the European media, and majority of Europe's leaders.

Ah you clarified...and that happened exactly...where? Well it doesn't matter anyway, since you chose to see us that way, there's just no need to talk to you anymore about it!

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
EXCUSE ME!!?? Find one place in my post where I mentioned England or Italy!

Ah yes, the concept of irony (again: Dictionary, you use a lot words you do not comprehend!) is totally unknown to you! Ok...so what...


and then the BIG FINAL...yes, I knew something like that will come, it had to, it just had to, I've read this so often on this forum, buddy, it's like "I don't want to start A vs. B":

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
Way to assume, buddy! I guess a six monnth internship with Lufthansa in Frankfurt a.M. doesn't count? Nor does studying the German language, literature, history, or current event for the past six years? Nor does being a member of my school International Friendship Club in which I work with GERMAN foreign exchange students?

No it does NOT count if that is what you took with you! You're trying to tell me you've learned about Germany for 6 years and this disgusting lunacy is ALL you come up with??? Insults to a whole continent because ONE asshole blubbers nonsense? WOW!! I'm deeply impressed, really. So we've gone insane, we dream about superstates (which btw is rather funny coming from a citizen of the UNITED STATES of America) and are basically a viper: ROFLMFAO! Really great post, well reflected, brilliantly crafted... Lufthansa, right??? Big grin Big grin Big grin

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
YES, and I am the asshole, Andreas.

Actually it was Mr Trittin I had in mind when I used the word asshole (several times, I even called him that once practically face to face, in Berlin, near Brandenburg Gate, I stood there with a colleague as he walked along with his political entourage, my friend said "look, there's Trittin", he looked around to see who said his name and in this very moment I said to my friend -and not exactly in a low voice- "oh, that bloody asshole"...he looked rather irritated, but I guess he's used to being called asshole).

Now if that's the way you see yourself...I guess I'm not in a position to argue, after all I'm an insane German weasel, right!  Wink

Well, I'm quite relaxed again, just had to get it out of my system...you really should join that other thread, there are people who will love an adore you for such a post!  Smile

Have a nice day!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Twistedwhisper
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:34 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Thread starter):
At this point I honestly question the sanity of your entire continent.

Gee, thanks. One German politician opens his mouth, and "BAM" the entire continent is insane? Shall I keep a note of this thread just in case there are any "don't-judge-the-dog-by-its-fleas, don't-judge-all-americans-by-the-action-of-one" threads...? Nah. Why? Becuase it's fu**ing pointless, so is this post.
Read between the lines.
 
OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 21):
Gee, thanks. One German politician opens his mouth, and "BAM" the entire continent is insane? Shall I keep a note of this thread just in case there are any "don't-judge-the-dog-by-its-fleas, don't-judge-all-americans-by-the-action-of-one" threads...? Nah. Why? Becuase it's fu**ing pointless, so is this post.

Of course. Didn't you know that Twisted. Some americans still think that Europe is a Country. And what 1 politician says is what the rest of us thinks as well. And I can only laugh at them Big grin
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 22):
Some americans still think that Europe is a Country. And what 1 politician says is what the rest of us thinks as well. And I can only laugh at them

Don't laugh, my friend!!! He spent 6 months at Lufthansa in Frankfurt (the only city in Germany where you don't have to know the German language to get along just fine), so he just HAS TO KNOW!!  Wink


btw: Did you see Jon Dahl score vs. Bremen...what a frigging great goal!!!!!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting Andreas (Reply 23):
btw: Did you see Jon Dahl score vs. Bremen...what a frigging great goal!!!!!

Yeah I saw the game. it was a pretty cool game actually. I saw it with some friends. It was awesome to see so many danes in action at the same time against eachother. Big grin
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:27 pm

oh and Vanguard, just to give you a good feeling that you're not alone in your lunacy:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372434,00.html

It's in English, should make for a good reading for YOU! Have fun!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
ZakHH
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:33 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 19):
Second, your continent has gone crazy not simply because of the hurricane, but because you blame most anything either on Bush, America, or Global Warming, it adds up after a while! And as I already clarified, when I say 'your continent', i am referring to the European media, and majority of Europe's leaders.

My goodness, you are really clueless, aren't you?
If I was judging the USA for their media and politic leaders... well, perhaps let's better not follow up on that thought.

Maybe Andreas could have stated his point in a bit more diplomatic manner, but I can agree his core statement: your approach can be called naive at best, and your arguments suggest that, regardless of your first sentence and the first-hand experience you claim, yet you are indeed quite exactly the stereotypical, close minded American that so many people outside your country dislike for various reasons.

And I would not even disagree with some aspects of your complaint letter, but you disqualify yourself in too many ways to be taken serious in the end. You blame me (as European) for certainly stupid, yet maybe not even all wrong statements of some moron minister representing a party I would not even think about voting for? You blame me for our press writing as much bullshit as yours? Try sorting your mind, maybe we can then reach a point where it is worth having a discussion.

Until then:  talktothehand 
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ManxATP
Posts: 37
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:35 pm

I think whilst Americans are weary of what they perceive to be anti-US rhetoric from European politicians (sometimes quite rightly) this sometimes obscures and generates a backlash to genuine political points. The Southern states have suffered a great tragedy in Katrina, for which 99.9% of Europeans would offer their condolences and for which, clearly, Bush is not in any way liable. On the other hand there is considerable evidence that global warming exists and good scientific evidence to suggest this exacerbates storm activity. Therefore it is believed by some, that the US can control its future fate concerning hurricanes (to a degree) by committing to tackling global warming. Past evidence (e.g. failure to signup to Kyoto, addiction to cheap gas) suggests politicians (inc. those of the Bush family) have not yet taken this seriously for political reasons. The point is clear – the decisions Bush takes now WILL impact on the US and the rest of the world in years to come.
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:38 pm

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 26):
Maybe Andreas could have stated his point in a bit more diplomatic manner

NO!! Time for diplomatic babbling is over...he launched his ridiculous attack full steam ahead, so there's just no reason to defend in a diplomatic way!

You know I'm so tired of this constant stream of posts saying "oh no, we European people love American people, it's just our governments that clash".

NO! Not true!! There are just intelligent people and stupid ones...I hate stupid ones and I give a wet crap about where they come from!

[Edited 2005-09-01 10:43:27]
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gkirk
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:41 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 22):
Some americans still think that Europe is a Country

You should try and tell those in the EU that Europe isn't a country  Yeah sure
Heil zich, just this time the Germans are trying to takeover Europe in a peaceful manner  Yeah sure
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 29):
Heil zich, just this time the Germans are trying to takeover Europe in a peaceful manner

Don't worry farmboy, we'll give Scotland to the Americans, for free...should they want it (which I doubt very much)  Wink
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:55 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 29):
You should try and tell those in the EU that Europe isn't a country

Europe isn't a damn Country. It will never be in my eyes. I will consider myself as living in Europe. I will never see my self as a citizen of The United States of Europe. I will always consider myself Citizen of Denmark.

[

[Edited 2005-09-01 11:04:22]
 
aloges
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:56 pm

Wow, a Germany bashing thread! Cool, and I thought the bashing had already been bad enough!  eyepopping 

Quoting Vanguard737 (Thread starter):
I am not the stereotypical close minded inbred American that the average European likes to picture we American's as.

Goooood to know you know what I think. Can you also tell me what I want to have for lunch?

I guarantee you that lots of Germans heavily disagree with Trittin's comments and specifically the timing, myself included. But the people in this thread are jumping to the exact same conclusions they "criticise" (a.k.a. "flame") when someone's talking about the US.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
gkirk
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:11 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 32):
Wow, a Germany bashing thread! Cool, and I thought the bashing had already been bad enough! eyepopping

It's better than the usual Bush bashing threads that you Germans like taking a part in  Wink
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OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 33):
It's better than the usual Bush bashing threads that you Germans like taking a part in

Lets start an official Bash Germany Thread and Bash France thread. Those could be really popular these days  Wink
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:18 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 34):
Lets start an official Bash Germany Thread and Bash France thread. Those could be really popular these days

Completely useless...as long as there is our Scottish master-thread-hijacking farmboy Kirkie around...subsequently ALL threads end up being Kirkie-bashing threads, not that he doesn't deserve it!!   

Besides, if I were you, and thank God I am not (I couldn't really stand running around in clogs like a little girl  Wink), I'd be very worried why there is no such thing as a Dane-bashing thread. You lot are so frigging boring, nobody even wants to bash you!

[Edited 2005-09-01 11:21:02]
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gkirk
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:25 pm

That's because Denmark is just a small area of Germany isn't it?  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:27 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 36):
That's because Denmark is just a small area of Germany isn't it?

It's the other way around Kirkie. Germany is like a suburb to Denmark. Just like England is a suburb to Scotland.

[Edited 2005-09-01 11:28:20]
 
Andreas
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:30 pm

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 37):
Germany is like a suburb to Denmark.

Maybe we SHOULD start a combined Dane-Scot farmboy-bashing thread...
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aloges
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:30 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 33):
It's better than the usual Bush bashing threads that you Germans like taking a part in

Sheep-baaaah!

Hey at least I don't call GWB an idiot (anymore). There are more subtle ways.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:39 pm

I haven't seen Trittin's comments except what is reported here but if this is accurate he is more of a waste of space than I had thought..

On Kyoto, it is easy for the comfortably extravagant Europeans to criticise countries like USA & Australia for being reluctant to sign but that displays an ignorance of the basic flaw in the agreement and why it should be torn up.

Chris
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Stratofish
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:43 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 40):
On Kyoto, it is easy for the comfortably extravagant Europeans to criticise countries like USA & Australia for being reluctant to sign but that displays an ignorance of the basic flaw in the agreement and why it should be torn up.

Could you elaborate this more clearly, please.
We are in no different situation, economywise. And what is "extravagant" in terms of that we are concerned about our planet's environment?
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Toulouse
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:48 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 9):
Forget Europe. Don't waste your time or money there.

Wonderful contirubution! Really useful and a great insight. Thanks!

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 40):
sign but that displays an ignorance of the basic flaw in the agreement and why it should be torn up.

As Stratofish says, can you enlighten us?

Now Vanguard737. I fully understand your emotion and I, as most Europeans and people around the world, send my deepest and sincerest sympathy and my prayers to all those affected by this natural disaster.

But I DO NOT agree with you blaming all/majority of Europeans and Euopean governments on what Mr. Trittin said, nor do most of us really give a damn, and concur that his words (if you've quoted correctly) are totally out of place.

Regarding Kyoto, yes Bush along with very few other world leaders don't seem to give a damn about the environment, and I do fully believe the climate is becoming harsher, severer and less predictable and many of us want to try to prevent or lessen the damage we (in the developped world mainly) have created. What's wrong with that?

Ragrding Europe's help for Katrina, other threads have stated that the US does not usually accept foreign aid. This does not mean foreign governments have not offered help.

Do you have any idea about what the climate has done Europe just this summer? Catastropic flooding just a week ago causing major damage and death in Switzerland, Baveria, Austria, Romania... Not comparing it to the awful consequences of Katrina, but there was an important loss of life and damage. Did the US offer help (I don't know)? Were you so concerned about this that created a thread on it? And the worst forest fires in the history of Portugal, also severely affecting Spain. This has resulted in incredible destruction of the Portugal's and Spain's forests, death and destruction of people's property. France has also suffered terrible fires and drought conditions.

Anyway Vanguard, again fair play to you for expressing your feelings. Please let us know if you get a response. (Possibly you won't, I sent a similar letter to the WHite House about a year ago about something evry insulting against the French... can't remember what, but no reply ever). And remember, us Europeans are humans... were not mad American-bashing Socialists as so many of you seem to think. We're actually normal nice people who just happen to come from Europe. And I'm VERY proud to be from Europe. Just as I'm sure you are to be from wherever you are from.

What I do find sad is the incredible loss of life yesterday in Baghdad and the little coverage it's getting here.
Anyway, m

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 2):
And dont say that America deserved it. That is horrible to say America deserved it

To be clear fellow American a.netters, I do TOTALLY agree with this particular quote from FlyMIA.
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racko
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:54 pm

Actually, I also think that Trittin's remarks are a shame and an embarrasment for Germany. Trittin is probably one of the worst ministers we ever had, and his stupid remarks actually mirror the stupid politics he's been up to in the last 7 year. Taking a catastrophy to prove a point (no matter if he has one or not) just simply shows a complete lack of taste.

If it is any cure, his remarks have triggered an uproar in other magazines, including the most-read magazine, the Spiegel, and in 18 days the German voters will have taken care of him.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 42):
Catastropic flooding just a week ago causing major damage and death in Switzerland, Baveria, Austria, Romania... Not comparing it to the awful consequences of Katrina, but there was an important loss of life and damage.

Especially the recent floods in Romania (btw, there were severe floods already in May) went basically unnoticed by the media and certainly were much worse - given the size and economic strenght of the country - than the ones in New Orleans with somewhere between 2/3-3/4 of the country under water.
The difference is that the Romanian floods were on page 16 of few major dailies for a day or two therefore it basically "did not happen".

As far as Trittin's statement. There's nothing really wrong with the substance of the but how and especially WHEN it was said just made nothing but disservice to the whole issue.
 
ZakHH
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:35 pm

It's rather sad to see how some of our American fellows mix it all up into 1 big pot of point-of-view-stew, without regarding the somewhat more complex details.

Q: Did anyone say "The Americans didn't deserve better, it was their own fault"?
A. No. And if someone did, don't pay him attention, he's a moron (you have some of them everywhere).
It was said, however, that maybe the US climate policy supports the raise in frequency of such hurricanes. Quite tactless to say so in public while there are still people to be rescued, no doubt about that. Even worse if such a statement comes from a government minister, who should know better. Still a statement that may be worth a thought.

Q: Did anyone say "The hurricane victims do not need help, they can help themselves, they live in a rich country"?
A. No. And if someone did, don't pay him attention, he's a moron.
It was said, however, that unlike "3rd world countries", the USA should be have the infrastructure to meet such a catastrophe (as well as most European countries would). If relief organizations do not ask for help or donations, I suppose they are not (yet) needed. If they ask - we're ready to help any time. Plus, Germany has already offered to send in technicians and rescue teams.

There is further questions that must be allowed to be asked:
- What has happened now (dams broken, city flooded) was rather exactly predicted 36 hours in advance by US authorities. Were there really no better precaution measures that could have been taken? (This is not a rhetoric question!)
- Why was obviously no one (speaking of organizations, not individuals) prepared to meet the aftermath of the hurricane? If a city like N.O. is evacuated because officials suppose that it will be flooded, did they not think about the day after? Did they suppose the water would just leave, people could return and live happily everafter?

Asking these questions has nothing to do with not feeling with the victims, or bashing US authorities. Being struck by disaster is horrible, this is not a matter of "where" or "who". Those who are hit can be considered innocent victims. They need help, they lost everything, and right now, they are not much better off than the victims of the Tsunami.

But do we improve their situation by not asking upcoming questions, mostly starting with "Why..."?
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ZakHH
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:43 pm

PS: Red Cross Germany ( http://www.rotes-kreuz.de/ ) has now started asking for donations to support relief organizations helping Katrina victims. So everyone's invited now.
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stall
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 9):
Apart from Tony Blair, and *maybe* the Italians, don't look for the Europeans to shed a tear over us.

What a brilliant comment. I haven't met someone in Europe who was not sad to what happened in US last days. Nobody is happy about it.

By the way are you aware that my country suffered large floods two Weeks ago ? No the scale that NO is suffering but serious for a small country as mine.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 9):
Forget Europe

Even if we buy Boeing ?
Flying is fun
 
Toulouse
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:08 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 44):
The difference is that the Romanian floods were on page 16 of few major dailies for a day or two therefore it basically "did not happen".

So sad yet so true. Just goes to show you what the world is like...
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OYRJA
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RE: Has Europe Lost Its Grip On Reality?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:15 pm

Quoting Stall (Reply 47):
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 9):
Apart from Tony Blair, and *maybe* the Italians, don't look for the Europeans to shed a tear over us.

You know what Steven. I really do feel sorry for you. It must suck to live in a small paranoid world you live in.

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