LHMark
Topic Author
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:51 am

CNN reports that they're shooting at Guard troops evacuating hospitals. Why the hell would anyone do this? It makes no sense!
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
flydubai
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:35 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting LHMark (Thread starter):
Why the hell would anyone do this?

To cause more disruption.

flyDUBAI
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
Only thing I could say/repeat is along the lines of "Well what to expect in a gun-crazy country with a lot of uneducated poor people?" but no one would care anyway...

Really inappropriate under the circumstances.

Major difference between a lawless rioting lower class engaging in total anarchy and a civilized society that uses firearms to protect itself.

Gnaw on this- if more people WERE armed, the criminal bastards and organized looting gangs wouldn't be so brazen.
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:23 am

Well, I hope the troops return fire and wipe out the B*stards   

Where's ANCFlyer when you need him??


Lee

[Edited 2005-09-01 22:26:43]
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4720
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:23 am

Maybe a few days without food, water and shelter drove them insane. There are other possibilities besides them being assholes.

Not saying they arent assholes...but who knows?
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:29 am

I've been thinking about it. There is always the possibility that people are desperate and panicking and the shooting is to attract attention so that someone comes to them.

I don't doubt that there are a few assholes there who are shooting because they can, and there are undoubtedly those gangs who are taking boats from rescuers and shooting at cops.....probably people who planned out their looting for the post hurricane opportunity....but I'll bet there is some number of people who are basically desperate and panicked and making noise to be rescued next.

Think about that old adage "fire three shots to let the ranger know where to find you" for lost hunters and outdoorsmen.

Just a thought in conjunction with the idea that some of the looters are taking food to live on instead of tv's they'll never get to use.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 3):
Gnaw on this- if more people WERE armed, the criminal bastards and organized looting gangs wouldn't be so brazen.

How about if no one did have a gun, then there would be no one shooting!
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
To get some target practice?

Only thing I could say/repeat is along the lines of "Well what to expect in a gun-crazy country with a lot of uneducated poor people?" but no one would care anyway...

Unbelievably immature in a time like this. Suggested deletion.

Quoting Slider (Reply 3):
Gnaw on this- if more people WERE armed, the criminal bastards and organized looting gangs wouldn't be so brazen.

I'm actually going in this weekend, since the Navy has given us a 4-day weekend for Labor Day, with several others to help restore some law. Its unreal right now, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that if I run into any of these fu*kers doing this, there will be hell to pay.
Crye me a river
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 2):

Really inappropriate under the circumstances.

Oh and FEEMA IGNORING the needs of the people of NO is 'appropriate?? You spend 4 days in a stinking hole with 1,000's of other people, nothing to do/eat/drink and nowhere to shit/piss. I think you'd be a bit aggrivated too. FEMA and N.O. SCREWED THE POOCH....PERIOD. That stadium will take years to re-hab, and that's just the shit and piss smell.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Maybe a few days without food, water and shelter drove them insane.

Nahh.. impossible

Signed,

The right wing puppets who think W is doing a GREAT job!!
This space intentionally left blank
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 8):
I think you'd be a bit aggrivated too.

Good enough reason to start sniping others in the same situation, most of them being far worse off than those doing the shooting? I'm very sorry that you think this.
Crye me a river
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 8):
Quoting Slider (Reply 2):

Really inappropriate under the circumstances.

Oh and FEEMA IGNORING the needs of the people of NO is 'appropriate?? You spend 4 days in a stinking hole with 1,000's of other people, nothing to do/eat/drink and nowhere to shit/piss. I think you'd be a bit aggrivated too. FEMA and N.O. SCREWED THE POOCH....PERIOD. That stadium will take years to re-hab, and that's just the shit and piss smell.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Maybe a few days without food, water and shelter drove them insane.

Nahh.. impossible

Signed,

The right wing puppets who think W is doing a GREAT job!!

Why don't you blame W for making the hurricane hit the Gulf coast

My father in law works for FEMA, he was moved from the DC area to Orlando a day before landfall. He is working 18 hour days preparing and training and moving people to the disaster zone, and if you ask why is he in Orlando? Well first of all, it's still there, and the have a lot of hotel rooms and can provide the support needed. They're are also 2 other FEMA staging/ planning areas in the USA. FEMA is in action and they have been. It seems like there is an overriding sense of why hasn't my govt helped me yet. To me it's obvious. Let's see it was a strong cat 4 hurricane, compare it to a F3 tornado 150 miles wide that lasts for 12 hours. People knew about this for 5 days, WTF were they doing in that time period? Yes I understand that N.O. is a poor city, and a lot of people can't get out. Again, growing up on the Gulf coast of Florida and having experienced several hurricanes myself, I wonder why people don't have the basic hurricane preparations; Radio, batteries, flashlights, water and food for 3 days. The Red Cross, FEMA, and every local TV, newspaper and radio station pounded this into peoples heads from May-November in Florida. You can't expect the government to show up the next day with hot meals, clean water and a place to stay. It's just not going to happen. The area is totally and completely devastated, ALL transportation means are damaged, communication is non-existent. Total recovery will take a good 10-15 years.
The voice of moderation
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:52 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 7):
I'm actually going in this weekend, since the Navy has given us a 4-day weekend for Labor Day, with several others to help restore some law.

I salute you, sir. I will be hoping you stay safe while you are there.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 11):

Thank you very much for that comment. I just hope we can do some good there. There is so much destruction and chaos that you stop and wonder what one person can do, but when I'm right next to it all and the government is giving me a 4-day weekend...I can't think of doing anything else more important. Thank you again!
Crye me a river
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:01 am

Totally make sure you return to A.net safe and sound and well. Thank YOU for your service to the people affected.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:44 am

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again:

FEMA is responsible for setting up the staging areas ahead of time. FEMA is responsible for coordinating the airlifts and rescues.

It takes time to get into storm-damaged areas. Someone had to clear and/or rebuild sections of highway just to get there with the busses. Rescue helicopters don't fly very fast. If it wasn't for FEMA, we'd still have food and water and busses just getting to the staging areas, and the helicopters would just be starting to lift people out. Instead, because of FEMA, rescue efforts started in the midst of continuing tropical storm-force winds after the hurricane had barely passed.

Our government can only do so much, so fast. Patience is of the essence here, even though for the people in the disaster zone time is short. In this kind of scenario, we won't be able to save everyone, no matter how hard we try. Just keep praying, and donate as much as you are able.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:58 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 8):
The right wing puppets who think W is doing a GREAT job!!

I guess the hurricane was Bush's fault also.  Yeah sure

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Well, I hope the troops return fire and wipe out the B*stards

Couldn't agree more, I believe that after 9/11, anyone who was caught looting, was to be shot on site, same goes with the riots in Chicago in the 60's. Same thing should be implemented here. There is a difference between stealing food for survival, and cleaning out footlocker and electronics stores.

Oddly enough, all the looters I've seen were mostly black, it could be due to the high population, but that is another topic.
nothing
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting LHMark (Thread starter):
Why the hell would anyone do this? It makes no sense!

The same reasons that there is looting and raping going on--the human nature of some to turn into animals when faced with such a huge crisis.

I have no doubt that people are stressed and frustrated, but some people overlook the enormity and scale of the disaster, and have some unrealistic expectations.

Not everyone can be first in line on the first bus. Somebody will be the last person on the last bus. Nobody wants to wait their turn, it's all about "ME" and right "NOW" to the exclusion of everyone else.

I am particularly appalled by the reports of gangs of young men going around and raping women and young girls at gun/knife point. How terrible for these females to survive Katrina, only to suffer an ugly personal tragedy on top of that. Whatever the frustration or excuse of the individual, there's no valid excuse for such behavior, and if a police officer or guardsman witnessed such an attack, I think they'd be fully justified in putting one right between the perp's eyes.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 3896
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:15 am

They need more guard troops on the ground for police duties so rescuers can do their job.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:24 am

The blunt truth answer: Some animals will snap at their own guts. Unfortunately man is one of them.

I don't care how frustrated you are, shooting at rescuers is contra-survival. It is far beyond stupid.

And I'm with those of you who are critical of our Government's efforts to date. The amount of aid that has arrived as of sundown today is what should have been there monday afternoon.

Bush is showing no leadership whatever! Until this afternoon he let second-stringers do the Whitehouse press conferences. When he finally showed up for one (with Daddy and Clinton for support) he came off as a heartless insensitive boob. He talked far more about rebuilding than he did about rescue or humanitarian aid. It is not time to talk about that yet - there are people dying for lack of water.

All public officials need to stop spouting off about what a good job they are doing. The FEMA director should never get in front of a camera again. He looks like a buffoon. He says on Thursday afternoon that he was "surprised" by people appearing "out of the woodwork" at places like the Superdome. It was a frank admission that he was utterly clueless about the severity.

Frustration is justified. Looting stores for food or liquids is justified because "the system" has let you down. Your own Government - up to this point - is going to let you die. Breaking into barricaded multi-story buildings to get your families up out of the putrid water is justified, in fact it would be negligent not to do so.

But stealing the food and water being brought in and selling it to your fellow flood victims, well, again I have to think of Ethiopia and Somalia. Barbaric! And shooting at ambulances and helicopters is mad-dog insanity. I hope to hell those noble National Guard troops are prepared to shoot them down like mad dogs.

I notice something else too. The people I see making specific pleas for help, and trying to organize self-rescue, self-help efforts are ALL WOMEN. Where is the manhood of New Orleans?

Here is a question the FEMA director should know the answer to, but I'll be he doesn't. What is the closest town to New Orleans that has drinkable tapwater?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:28 am

If more people had guns someone would have shot the asshole who is shooting at the rescuers.

Why punish the entire nation by taking away a right, when only a few people are breaking the law?

But this thread isn't over gun control, so stop making it about that.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Where's ANCFlyer when you need him

I believe he is in the phone booth changing clothes....I'll get him.

Clearly one of the lessons here for people is that when civil order breaks down, you are on your own to defend yourself and your family.

I for one, now that I am working, will begin stocking up on ammo again.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:33 am

Well, if there are really armed gangs roaming the streets in NOLA, there's only one thing the Guardsmen should do-shoot to kill. If they run into one of these gangs, raming a street, there's no warning. This is, literally, a war zone in may respects, and to return some sanity to the streets that aren't flooded, these scum need to be taken out.

Sounds brazen, but this is getting beyond any niceties.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:12 pm

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 9):
Good enough reason to start sniping others in the same situation, most of them being far worse off than those doing the shooting? I'm very sorry that you think this.

I'm very sorry these morons not only THOUGHT it but TOOK ACTION!!

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 10):
Why don't you blame W for making the hurricane hit the Gulf coast

I don't believe in the butterfly effect

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 10):
You can't expect the government to show up the next day with hot meals, clean water and a place to stay

I can expect 2 out of 3 (sort of). The is NO excuse for the lack of water and MREs immediately (within hours) after the winds died. Why is it that there are buses to take people to Houston before there is adequate food and water? Not to mention a few thousand porta potties?

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 11):
I salute you, sir. I will be hoping you stay safe while you are there.

You might not like it, but I am with SH on this one, anyone who goes ther TO HELP, knowing how shitty it is deserves a pay grade and a commendation.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 14):

Our government can only do so much, so fast

Typical defeatist attitude. Like I said before there is no reason the MREs and watere werent there immediately and tents setup in the nearest dry land above sea level.

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 15):

I guess the hurricane was Bush's fault also.

I don't believe in the butterfly effect

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
Not everyone can be first in line on the first bus. Somebody will be the last person on the last bus. Nobody wants to wait their turn, it's all about "ME" and right "NOW" to the exclusion of everyone else.

Yeap humans are SO dumb....

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
I think they'd be fully justified in putting one right between the perp's eyes.

 thumbsup 

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
It is far beyond stupid.

 thumbsup 

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
Where is the manhood of New Orleans?

Waiting for thier biotches to rescue them.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
This is, literally, a war zone in may respects, and to return some sanity to the streets that aren't flooded, these scum need to be taken out.

Yeap. The Mayor ordered everyone out.. that MEANS EVERYONE.. Sounds like a shoot first policy is in order...

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
and not have water and MRE's pre-positioned for such an occurrence?



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
Florida has much better disaster and emergency planning.

After Andrew it was difficult 'not to learn'. Andrew is part of why Senior was kicked in the ass on his way out of the whitehouse. He didn't care about 'us' so the Cubans who'd sell their daughters before voting democrat didn't care about him.
This space intentionally left blank
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
Which only goes to show how little understanding you have of the immensity of the task facing relief workers.

WRONG!

It goes to show how little understanding FEMA has of the immensity of the task.

This sort of thing is the only reason we have those overpaid sandcrabs on the payroll for the last thirty years. What in the pluperfect hell have they been doing?

Level five hurricane heading up the gulf sunday night.
Going to have to make landfall in a sea-level region.
New Orleans is well known to be BELOW SEA LEVEL protected by levees that are designed to deal with normal spring freshets.

These are not difficult concepts to understand if you give a shit.

Planes should have been loading SUNDAY NIGHT and been airpborne toward MSY as the storm was leaving the area.

Did you know that trucks were being loaded today with FEMA shipping containers at Herlong California. That is about eighty miles north of Reno Nevada. Now tell me - when will those truck arrive on the Gulf Coast? My guess is about monday morning.

FEMA has one job in the whole damn world and they blew it.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 31):
Planes should have been loading SUNDAY NIGHT and been airpborne toward MSY as the storm was leaving the area.

Ewww.. I'm going to have to  redflag  this one. Until it could be ascertained that landings would be safe there, no need to burn the kerosene. But Helos should have been making that determination ASAP along with enough crew for a good FOD walk.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 31):

FEMA has one job in the whole damn world and they blew it.

 thumbsup 

Which is UTTERLY amazing given how many Oil buddies W. has there...
This space intentionally left blank
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 31):
Did you know that trucks were being loaded today with FEMA shipping containers at Herlong California. That is about eighty miles north of Reno Nevada. Now tell me - when will those truck arrive on the Gulf Coast? My guess is about monday morning.

FEMA has one job in the whole damn world and they blew it.

Perhaps it will become obvious in the days ahead that you are right. Why you continue to give the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana a free pass for their failures is what I don't understand.

Again - why didn't the City and State have emergency supplies prepositioned in the Superdome and Convention Center?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The LANG?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:28 pm

I believe these people are committing these unexcusable acts out of frustration. The helicopters are transporting people who need immediate care and leaving the others to wait. Of course that is understandable to US but for those who are living in those conditions, seeing these helicopters go back and forth and they are STILL stuck there......needless to say that doesn't make them happy at all. Of course there is no excuse for such violence but that's a way of seeing it. Such tragedies bring out the best in some and the worst in others......
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 25):
Why you continue to give the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana a free pass for their failures is what I don't understand.

Because it is not the City or the State that are sitting in a Typhoid-Cholera petri dish, dying of dehydration while being bullied by drunk, stoned worthless bastards. It is human beings. They are dying, the rate at which they are dying is going to accelerate. It is not the hurricane that is going to kill them. It is the failure of FEMA to pre-position supplies nearby that is going to kill them.

I either want them saved or I want my tax dollars back. Now congress is supposed to give FEMA ( Federal Excuse-Making Agency) another TEN BILLION DOLLARS. I'd rather see it given directly to charity.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
Until it could be ascertained that landings would be safe there, no need to burn the kerosene.

That is a good example of FEMA thinking. Some of the disaster supplies were coming from as far away as the west coast. If they were enroute by air early monday afternoon as the hurricane was clearing the materials would have been much closer. Then if MSY cannot be used, there is Barksdale, there is Houston, Baton Rouge, Shreveport, a hundred nearby airports that could be used as temporary staging. Jesus, do I have to think of everything for you?

FEMA exists for one reason only. To PLAN for things like this and then implement those plans. This entire event should have been just "Oh, this is scenario 24B - the New Orleans big one. Implement plan 24B" and everyone breaks out their manual and starts working the plan.

The director should have been on the ground at a forward command post monday morning, not sitting on his fat ass in DC in an air-conditioned office. Failing that he should at least have watched the God damn television like the rest of us did. Maybe he'd have gotten a clue!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:15 pm

I've b een watching a fair amout of the TV coverage, and i definitely agree that it's the fault of city of NO and state of LA that things got out of control. FEMA is doing exactly what they are supposed to...help AFTER the disaster...

And I really blame the people who were so unprepared...they live in a city that is BELOW sea level and they don't make any plans for themselves?
They should have had water/food for at least 5 days WITHOUT any aid.
Even if they didn't have bottled water when they evac to dome PRIOR to storm, they should have taken containers with them and gotten tap water there. Really BAD planning by the people...I lived in a prime hurricane zone (Clearwater FL) for many years, and I prepared for a storm properly.
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:24 pm

But still, government help agencies have limits. Many people today have forgotten how to help themselves and how to improvise. I saw people stuck on a bridge on TV, who were being interviewed and were just bitching about why the government doesn`t get them off. If I were there, I´d be looking for a way to get out of there on my own.
Or, another case: The mayor ordered everybody out. I wouldn`t do it. I would stick to my place and, if necessary, defend it.
Maybe its the experience of having grown up in a frontline town during cold war, but we always thought about being prepared, e.g. my grandfather had a heap of firewood and coal in his basement, just in case, even though his heater normally ran on oi. My grandmother had lots of preserved foods, them being the WW2 generationl. When the troubles started in Poland in the 1980s, my mother was stocking up on food, candles, heating fuel etc., enough to last us for a month or two, should West Berlin have been blocked off again.
I have e.g. several kerosine lamps at home, plus a kerosine cooker and a kerosene stove, plus a batch of MREs (and the Bundeswehr equivalent), plus water purifying tablets. I can, if necessary, survive for a while without tap water and electricity. If I were living in an area endangered by floods, I would keep an inflatable boat at home.
I also always keep some heavy tools in my car, like an axe, a crow bar, a bolt cutter, a heavy duty tow rope and a folding shovel, plus a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit (the last is compulsory in Germany), to help, if necessary in a car accident.
People here in the Rhineland, where floods are common, often have a stock of empty sand bags, bricks and c ement at home to wall up a door or basement windows.

If I were taking something from a shop, even just food, I´d probably leave an IOU in the till.
For me the gangs are happy that at the moment NO is a police and law free zone and they want to keep it like this.
If I were living in a place like this I´d be sitting in my place with a rifle in my hands.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 28):
I really blame the people who were so unprepared...

I do not disagree with you on this. There is little the rest of us can do to help those who will not help themselves. (and stealing beer is not helping yourself) But stupidity is not a capitol offense.

I know cattle ranchers around this state. Cattle are pretty damn stupid, though they do appear to have more survival potential than some citizens of The Crescent City. These ranchers will go to great lengths to save cattle stranded in high country in the face of an advancing blizzard. They will spend perhaps more money than a steer is worth trying to save it. They will risk their own lives trying to drive them down. Apparently our Government values the people who stayed in New Orleans less than the local ranchers value their cattle.

How much potable water does the average citizen of Los Angeles have on hand at this moment. An earthquake eventually (maybe today, maybe fifty years from now) is going to cut the water off to the city and leave half of it in flames. At the same time it is going to cut the highways and railroads and damage the airports. Going to happen! How prepared are they for the obvious?

I live in a place where flooding is not possible - or if it does flood you better have built an ark. I am susceptible to earthquake, wildfire and mormon cricket infestations. That's about it. I have taken steps to protect myself from these things mostly because I don't trust my government to be of any real, timely help. Besides it is my job to do so. But are we really going to stand by and watch ten thousand people who are healthy today die because they aren't very bright?

I'm no bleeding heart, (if I posted some of my beliefs I would be terminally flamed) but this is a national disgrace.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:04 am

I posted last night after an extremely long delay filled day at the airport . . . alas, my post was deleted because it reference some others that were deleted . . .so here's a repost . . . .

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Where's ANCFlyer when you need him??

See above  irked  Delay, Delay, Delay

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 8):
Oh and FEEMA IGNORING the needs of the people of NO is 'appropriate??

Not quite . . . a bit much there TedT . . . other than airlift to get things in at the moment, how do you suggest they accomplish the mission - and lets not forget the airlift being sniped . . . . still I agree - perhaps a bit slow in the response.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 8):
N.O. SCREWED THE POOCH....PERIOD

Agreed . . .NOLA was not ready.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
I don't care how frustrated you are, shooting at rescuers is contra-survival. It is far beyond stupid.

Well said. Pure stupidity. Can't imagine why you'd shoot the people trying to help you . . . assinine, no excuse.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
I hope to hell those noble National Guard troops are prepared to shoot them down like mad dogs.

That will happen, but not until after a Guardsman or two get shot and killed because initially, the Rules of Engagement will be done by some chairwarmer in DC rather than a soldier on the ground . . . guardsmen will die at the hands of their fellow American's and vica versa.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Well, if there are really armed gangs roaming the streets in NOLA, there's only one thing the Guardsmen should do-shoot to kill. If they run into one of these gangs, raming a street, there's no warning. This is, literally, a war zone in may respects, and to return some sanity to the streets that aren't flooded, these scum need to be taken out.

I agree completely . . . wait! Falcon endorsing the use of a firearm!  faint  faint 

. . . .
Anyone wondering about Louisiana National Guard Troop Strength, here's some numbers . . .there are ONLY 3,700 members of the Louisiana National Guard in Iraq . . . their commander in the ground there is a man named John-Micheal Wells. He and his people return him next week after a year in combat - to nothing . . . . bear that in mind and put yourself there . . . see if you have the gut . . .


Sorry, not as flamboyant as my original post . . . but you get the message.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 27):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 25):
Why you continue to give the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana a free pass for their failures is what I don't understand.

Because it is not the City or the State that are sitting in a Typhoid-Cholera petri dish, dying of dehydration while being bullied by drunk, stoned worthless bastards. It is human beings. They are dying, the rate at which they are dying is going to accelerate. It is not the hurricane that is going to kill them. It is the failure of FEMA to pre-position supplies nearby that is going to kill them

You miss the point - it is NOT the responsibility of the federal government to make sure states and cities have disaster response plans in place in advance of a natural disaster. It is the responsibility of each state to ensure that adequate disaster planning and preparations are in place. FEMA and the rest of the federal government have the responsibility to help the states and local authorities carry out those plans, but New Orleans should have had initial stocks of food and water on hand.

So while you can fault FEMA for its slow response, a HUGE share of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of local and state leaders.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
So while you can fault FEMA for its slow response, a HUGE share of the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of local and state leaders.

I would say HUGE in the 95 percentile . . . as I said in another thread, if their only evac plan was "Go to the Superdome" something is very wrong. And a Superdome full of what??? No rations, no water, no anything.

Please, lok at the Houston Astrodome . . . cots, food, blankets, medical, everything, in less than a day, all pre-positioned and ready to go.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
You miss the point - it is NOT the responsibility of the federal government to make sure states and cities have disaster response plans in place in advance of a natural disaster.

Well, perhaps I don't make my point very well. I'm more outraged than eloquent at this point.

Five, ten years from now there will still be a City government and a State goverment. They are going to be okay. I just don't endorse letting the poor and the not-very-bright of New Orleans suffer to make a point. It is human suffering and we humans have an obligation to ease it.

And I disagree with the assertion that it is not the responsibility of the USG. The Feds have placed all kinds of requirments on state and local govs to have disaster plans. There are criteria that must be met and so on. But remember this: FEMA exists for no other purpose.

We have paid their salaries for years on end when they had little to do. THIS - TODAY is what they exist for.

How'd you like to buy an airline ticket, get on a plane, somehow get airborne with me as your pilot - and then learn that I don't know how to fly an airplane. You might be just a bit disappointed.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 34):
And I disagree with the assertion that it is not the responsibility of the USG. The Feds have placed all kinds of requirments on state and local govs to have disaster plans. There are criteria that must be met and so on. But remember this: FEMA exists for no other purpose.

You may disagree all you want, but your assertion remains incorrect.

FEMA was formed in 1979 by executive order of the President, combining Federal programs that deal with all phases of emergency management, for disasters of all types, into a single agency.

In accordance with FEMA’s primary authorizing legislation, the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, FEMA is first and foremost a coordinating agency. The Agency therefore relies on strong partnerships to successfully carry out its mission. FEMA works with a variety of partners, including Federal agencies, States, Territories, Tribal Nations, local governments, first responders, voluntary organizations, business, industry, and individuals. While the Agency’s mission is squarely focused on protecting and preparing the Nation as a whole,  primary responsibility for disaster response rests with State and local authorities.   This means FEMA does not respond to all disasters that occur in the United States. Instead, when State and local capacity to respond is threatened or overwhelmed, a Governor may ask the President for Federal assistance.

[Edited 2005-09-02 19:50:32]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
FEMA does not respond to all disasters that occur in the United States. Instead, when State and local capacity to respond is threatened or overwhelmed, a Governor may ask the President for Federal assistance.

Read it here, read it in any of a galaxy of threads on this overworked subject. The Gulf of Mexico was almost filled by a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane. It was headed northwest, but tending to turn to the right. It therefore had to make landfall in the USA, in a place that was obviously at sea level. Models predicted New Orleans being highly probable as the point.

What part of that is so bloody obscure? Who cannot see a disaster in the making on sunday night? I've seen aiport crash crews jump in the truck and crank it up before a plane actually crashed. It is called "anticipating" and it is what we expect of those we pay to protect us.

I live in a place that has a volunteer fire department. A while back I woke up in the wee hours and a neighbor's garage was on fire - "fully involved" as they say. I was up there watering the perimeter trying to halt the spread of fire 35 minutes before the volunteers showed up. Was I upset at them? Not at all. I understand they had to wake up, drive to the firehouse, suit up, start the truck and drive down here. Bless them for being there at all. On the other hand FEMA gets paid around the clock. They get paid and they get pensions and other perks year in and year out. And when we need them - what?

Anyway, most of us who are unhappy about this understand that it takes time to put help on the ground. It is our complaint that the people in charge didn't seem to understand that. And the real point is that 80% Bush' words to date have been congratulatory! "we're all doing such a great job" Like I said, go sell that at the Convention Center. Go tell that to the people who spent 36 hours on buses, most of it in the parking lot of the Astrodome.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 22):
I don't believe in the butterfly effect

Yeah but Amy Smart was hot in that movie...wait a minute...back on topic...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 33):
I would say HUGE in the 95 percentile . . . as I said in another thread, if their only evac plan was "Go to the Superdome" something is very wrong. And a Superdome full of what??? No rations, no water, no anything.

This is where my problem comes in with the mayor and his bitchfests....he had NO plan. None. Zip. Go to the Superdome. Great. But go to the dome with no plan set up? He and the city take blame for this as well.
This is the Last Stop.
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:41 am

The people shooting may be suffering the effects of dehydration and have no idea what's going on. They may actually think that they are being attacked. People could think they're in war zone or who knows what. When the electrolyte balance in your body gets far enough of you can actually become delirious and paranoid. It may be that people's entire bodies (including their brains) are just breaking down.
"Abnormal blood levels of electrolytes, such as calcium, sodium, or magnesium, can interfere with the metabolic activity of nerve cells and lead to delirium."
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch083/ch083b.html
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 2):
Really inappropriate under the circumstances.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 7):
Unbelievably immature in a time like this. Suggested deletion.

You're right, and I apologise.

[Edited 2005-09-02 20:54:16]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 36):
What part of that is so bloody obscure? Who cannot see a disaster in the making on sunday night? I've seen aiport crash crews jump in the truck and crank it up before a plane actually crashed. It is called "anticipating" and it is what we expect of those we pay to protect us.

You are correct. But the feds - by statute - must wait for a request from state and local officials before stepping in. And my point in regard to this is, what was holding the governor back from mobilizing the NG AND requesting advance federal assistance? Nothing, apparently, but her own failure to plan for such an occurrence. Same thing goes for the mayor. Several of us have been asking this very simple question - why didn't the city have emergency water supplies on hand in advance of the hurricane?

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 36):
Anyway, most of us who are unhappy about this understand that it takes time to put help on the ground. It is our complaint that the people in charge didn't seem to understand that.

And the people who were initially in charge were the governor and the mayor.

Go back to last year. Do you recall reading about the three major hurricanes that hit Florida? Did FEMA have to jump the gun and step in to assist Florida officials? No. The Florida authorities had plans in effect in advance, and made timely requests for federal assistance when needed.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
jrw261
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:32 pm

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:47 am

Argue what you want. But in my opinion.. Im the only one I can count on. The day you expect other people to help you through bad times, unexpected or planned... is the day you'll get burned. Classic case... 1 day later people were crying for food and water... Not one person said, I SCREWED UP.. I should have evacuated or I should have stock piled food. Its all why didn't this or that save me.

As for the aid... it takes time. No one even guessed that it would be this devestating.. its a 100yr storm... remember 20/20 hinde sight. But a city that knows its below sea level should have had an evacuation plan in place... and supplies ready for such a situation. As for blaming Bush give me a break, he says "give them more money", "send them more aid", "canada we accept your water rescue team".. you act like he should be manning the command post. The national government created FEMA for this.. to come to the state's aid, when the state requests it. You all think that a hurricane just affect the coast.. but just a year ago Pennsylvannia experienced some of the worst flooding that its seen in nearly 20 years from a hurricane... the government cant be responsible for reacting to every states need during 1 hurricane. Hence, the state requests FEMA help and FEMA deploys as needed.

And with the stupid excuses for the violence...the looting began quicker than the storm clouds could pass. So dont make up half-A**ed excuses why they were shooting and carrying guns.. they new what they were doing when they cleaned out the walmarts of guns and ammo on day one... .The same walmarts that had shelves full of water and food. The ones who REALLY need the food and water arn't carrying around the guns shooting at helicopters.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Why The Hell Are People Shooting At The Lang?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting Jrw261 (Reply 41):
Not one person said, I SCREWED UP.. I should have evacuated or I should have stock piled food. Its all why didn't this or that save me.

 checkmark 

Except for those unable to evacuate, you're spot on.

Stupid asses with their cars buried in water in their driveways getting plucked off their roof and complaining that it took so long . . . sure they'll thank their rescuers, I hope, but then they'll jump on the bandwagon of complainers . . .

Am I ready for an emergency - Earthquakes are quite common here in Alaska -yes. Will I rely on someone else? Nope.
What Disaster Supplies Do You Have? (by AsstChiefMark Sep 2 2005 in Non Aviation)
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, FriscoHeavy, Ken777 and 14 guests