TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:11 am

I'm hoping this thread will consolidate all the other Katrina/Govt official bashing threads, but as I'm not a mod (and don't wish to be one) I can't 'make it so', so I have to just hope that you'll all agree we should go on a thread diet and keep it here.

You know all the pundits are going to be doing the Sunday Morning press shows and reading all the Op-Ed pieces and talking about this one should have done this, this one should have done that, this group of people should have... yadda yadda yadda..

So the point of this thread is REALISTICALLY, what Blame is TRULY deserved (try to be objective) where and why?

Past Blame (long term)
A) Everyone in the US government for the last 30+ years.
1) We have known about this problem longer, but something should have been done to ensure that the levees wouldn't break, cat 5 be dammed. if the Dutch can do it, why can't we?
2) We have known NOLA is an evacuation NIGHTMARE for as long. We have known there are poor people living there just as long. Why isn’t there mass transit to at least 10 miles inland?
B) Everyone in the STATE government for the last 30+ years.
1) They should have used the gambling money to tell the US government to F*ck off and they'd take care of their own waterways/make ACE do the job with their money.
2) They should have put a mass transit system out of NO, damn the Feds.
B) Everyone in the LOCAL government for the last 30+ years.
1) For allowing the above not to happen. If I were Mayor, I'd hold a press conference EVERY SINGLE DAY saying that the City's needs are being IGNORED by the state and FEDS.
2) (Keep in mind the French quarter is above water) For allowing Construction of areas under sea level with out raising the foundation to Sea level +
3) Allowing the destruction/development of the wetlands that were providing SOME shelter/protection

Past Blame (short term/disaster prep) Given that none of the above occured.
A) US Government/FEMA for not having adequate shelters in the area and maintaining those supplies. For not developing an Evac plan 'for dummies' that would have gotten most of the people out.
B) The Governor of LA for not ensuring above was done
C) The Mayor of NOLA for not ensuring above was done X2

Incident Blame
A) Mother Nature (Life is hard, wear a helmet!!)
B) The Mayor of NOLA,
1) Not only did he allow above to happen, but when the storm hit, he hit the Hyatt instead of staying in the Superdome with the rest of the people he sent there. Something about not willing to lead by example PISSES me OFF!!!
2) Not being creative in getting people out. Once again the planing above would have made it so every vehicle leaving, left at capacity period. Only have two people in your minivan, guess what, you’re going back for more, find strangers load up, then you can leave.
3) Making sure that the Govenor knows that it's 25,000 to a few hundred with NO food in the SD.
B) The Governor of Louisiana (based on the "fact" she is responsible for her National guard)
1) Once again for allowing the above to occur.
2) Knowing that the SD was unable to sustain any one for any length of time: Be on the phone with the National Guard while the hurricane is occuring and having them Stage in Lafayette.
3) Having said troops rolling towards NOLA as soon as the winds hit tropical force for their route.
C) FEMA/POTUS
1) Once again for allowing the above to occur.

I wanted to go on, but this got ponderous.. The only next real points I have are that given the 'alleged fact' the Govenor was responsible for her troops and was indeed dropping the ball. Why didn't POTUS send in the troops/FEMA people he had authority over? AND or Call her to remind her that if she didn't call in her troops, he'd bring in his and make her look like a fool, and himself the hero. Instead of them both looking unresponsive?

Sure Kudos to W, FEMA and everyone else that got ready as far in advance as possible, but what's the point of preperation if those preperations are dependent on a STUPID %$#@ing PHONE CALL? Why can't the Governor just declare a state of Emergency and the suboordinate agencies do their work automatically?
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TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
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RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:59 am

By the way, for those who might blast my Mass Transit Idea BR is only 70 Miles as the crow flies. Give another 10 miles for 'fudge factor'. Even if you figure $2million/mile that's a LOT cheaper then what this storm will cost.
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CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:04 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3395977/

quote
At the governmental level, the jury's still out. New Orleans waited too late to evacuate, and doesn't seem to have had a very good plan for helping people without cars escape the city. The Superdome has been a nightmare, with insufficient supplies or facilities, though at least it's been a living nightmare.

But many commentators have looked at the images of people without food, water, or much of anything and announced that this shouldn't be happening in America -- as if we enjoy some sort of supernatural immunity to natural disaster, or some sort of superhuman ability to make things better.

It doesn't work that way. The reason why people like FEMA and the Red Cross recommend that you stockpile enough emergency supplies to get through at least a week without food, water, or electricity is that it generally takes at least that long after a major disaster to get aid flowing. Roads are blocked, bridges are down, power plants -- and lines -- are wrecked, and communications are interrupted. For at least a week (and you're much better off to be prepared for two) you may be on your own.

unquote
The voice of moderation
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:55 pm

So who was NOT moved by the Jefferson County Parrish President's emotional outburst on MTP?
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ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:10 am

Without reposting every damn thing from the lst 5 days I've written here's a brief summary.

No plan by the State of Louisiana.

No plan by the NOLA city managers.

No plan by FEMA.

All share blame.

As ws said in a dozen other threads, knowing NOLA was going to be a shit storm if it ever got seriously hit - anf we all know it's the right assumption - why was there not a plan, in place at all levels so it could simply be pulled off the shelf and executed with of course a few minor changes and addendums - we all know any operations order never survives first contact with the enemy - in this case Katrina.

Blame lies at all levels

My finger points squarely however at Baton Rouge and the NOLA Mayor's office. The picture of over 200 busses flooded in a parking lot convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt that NOLA had only one plan: "Go to the Superdome". And Mayor  hissyfit  needs to look in the mirror for the biggest target of any blame game. It is/was HIS city first, it is/was HIS responsibility first, it is/was HIS constituency that bore the brunt of the damage and chaos. He failed, miserably. Governor Blanco failed, miserably. FEMA failed miserably.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
It is/was HIS city first, it is/was HIS responsibility first, it is/was HIS constituency that bore the brunt of the damage and chaos. He failed, miserably.

I'm more in agreement with this as the hours pass.

Blanco, I'd really like to know... unfortunately all the press on her the last few days seems like she's working hard, telling Bush to F*ck off taking her troops..I dunno.. If she's so possessive about them now why isin't there a story about her ignoring them before?
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TedTAce
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Posts: 9098
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RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:18 am

In the thread: Chertoff: Scenario Didn't Exist (by Falcon84 Sep 4 2005 in Non Aviation)

They are talking about Chertof/FEEMa Director saying the scenario didn't exist. Was anyone else repulsed by the MTP interview this morning when he tried to say that the levee breaking was something they didn't expect AFTER the storm instead of period?
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TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Katrina-Sunday Morning Pundits/Monday Morning QB's

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
So who was NOT moved by the Jefferson County Parrish President's emotional outburst on MTP?

From:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/

Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard:
"And I want to give you one last story and I'll shut up and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me. The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?" And he said, "Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday." And she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night. "
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