jcs17
Posts: 7376
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Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:32 pm

http://www.drudgereport.com

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...




Simply unbelieveable. Nagin apparently had the mindset of some New Orleans residents when it came to "mandatory evacuations." What the fuck? Seriously, blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush, but you can't ignore that the city ignored the state disaster planning planning. The fact that hundreds of school buses are sitting under water in the New Orleans is appalling.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
legend500
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:39 pm

Here's a good way and a valid way to blame Bush.

Bush tax cut amount: $1.35 trillion
Cost to improve New Orleans levees (which is a federal responsibility under the Army Corps of Engineers) : $750 million

--or--this quote from 2004:

It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:42 pm

Why was anyone in that damn city in the first place. You can put a 500 ft. levee up, but if a Category 5 hurricane is bearing down on my city the first thing in my mind is "Get the hell out." The levees aren't the issue, the issue is the gross incompetence of the state and local government.

[Edited 2005-09-04 06:57:37]
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush,

Yes, we will, it is all we are really able to do.

Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
but you can't ignore that the city ignored the state disaster planning planning.

Yes we can, we would rather blame Bush simply because we do not like him.

Signed,
90% of this forum.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 1):
Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.

Does anybody know if the levee improvements had gone ahead as originally scheduled would they have even been finished now?

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 2):
The levees aren't the issue, the issue the gross incompetence of the state and local government.

I Couldn't agree more. If the local/state governments knew that the levees didn't have the improvements needed, then why the hell didn't they use every resource available to get everybody out?  scratchchin 

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
aaflt1871
Posts: 2166
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:06 pm

A sad simple fact to look at is there is no one person to blame, but several people dropped the ball on this matter, from the citizens who opted to stay, the mayor, the govenor, congress, F.E.M.A, up to DubYa himself. You cannot change the past. It is over, it happened, the only thing to do is learn from the mistakes.

I am sure Michael Moore is looking into this for another movie.
Where did everybody go?
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:10 pm

I thought I had heard on news this week that money for levee improvements had been requested for last 30 years and turned down...if true, how could it be Bush's fault? Also, there was a /story/report that in 1999(?), the Democrats had blocked the money...if so, how could it be Bush's fault? I'm sorry that I don't have links, but I heard these quickly and don't recall where/when it was...
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 2):
Why was anyone in that damn city in the first place.

Because not everybody has parents who buy them lexus's.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
legend500
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 6):
lso, there was a /story/report that in 1999(?), the Democrats had blocked the money...if so, how could it be Bush's fault?

True, but it happened on his watch after his bad decision. Too bad. And he's credited with wins that aren't his either, but happened on his watch. Ultimately, he is the federal government, and he bears ultimate resposibility for what happens under his watch. It's true of the captain of a ship, of a general of an army, and of the commander in cheif of a country.

Quoting DL757Md (Reply 4):
then why the hell didn't they use every resource available to get everybody out?

Because the Louisiana national guard was guarding some oil pipeline in Iraq.


And I quote:

"In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures."

That reduction is during his tenure.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...mi_qn4200/is_20050207/ai_n10176537
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:39 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 3):
Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush,

Yes, we will, it is all we are really able to do.

Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
but you can't ignore that the city ignored the state disaster planning.

Yes we can, we would rather blame Bush simply because we do not like him.

Signed,
90% of this forum.

And that's why I voted for Bush, I'm registered independent, and if the Democrats had fielded a decent candidate. Who's whole campaign wasn't I hate Bush and Bush screwed up this and that, everything is Bush's fault I probably would have voted for him. I got so sick of it and said F it I'm voting for Bush. At least I knew what I was getting.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3395977/>

I guess I'm a what can I do for my country as opposed to what can my country do for me type of guy.
The voice of moderation
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:41 pm

Mayor  hissyfit 's plan: "Go to the Superdome".

At the risk of repeating everything I already spent the day posting, you'll simply have to see my other posts in the other NOLA threads to read my sentiments . . .

Summary:

No plan in NOLA.

No Leadership in NOLA or Baton Rouge.

Hell I put a pretty elementary evac plan together today on another thread in about 15 minutes . . . certainly I'm not the mayor of NOLA, neither am I stupid and stagnant.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:43 pm

ANCflyer, I think you and I see eye to eye.
The voice of moderation
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:44 pm

So if "the Louisiana national guard was guarding some oil pipeline in Iraq.", then how can they be the ones now in NO? Because, as listed on other threads here, MOST of them are still in LA!
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
Simply unbelieveable. Nagin apparently had the mindset of some New Orleans residents when it came to "mandatory evacuations." What the fuck? Seriously, blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush, but you can't ignore that the city ignored the state disaster planning planning.

Again, kiddies. Learn your public affairs. The levees are outside of the Mayor's jurisdiction.

And before you go bashing on "mandatory evacuations," get a road map of Louisiana and tell me how many roads lead out of town, then put it into perspective of an evacuation with means vs. no means. Oy vey.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 2):
Why was anyone in that damn city in the first place.

Relaxed open container policies, bars open 24/7, great weather, and it's very easy to score.

Don't you worry, I went often!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 12):
MOST of them are still in LA!

Hell, I said that too, even named the commander of the unit in Iraq - and the fact they were returning in a week from a year in combat - to nothing. Didn't seem to faze anyone that kept preaching they were all deployed to the big sand box . . .

3700 Troops arrive back in Louisiana within the week.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
Don't you worry, I went often!

 checkmark  biggrin 

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
The levees are outside of the Mayor's jurisdiction.

Evac plans aren't . . .

And there are two MAJOR arteries . . . three if you cross Ponchartrain.

Start Early, don't stop.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
legend500
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:03 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 12):
Because, as listed on other threads here, MOST of them are still in LA!

They should ALL be there. The job of the National Guard is to defend the territorial integrity of the US domestically. They were never intended for foreign service. If Bush wants more troops for the continued occupation in Iraq (an invasion i supported, and continue to do so) he needs to get them from where they're meant to come, the Active Army, not from the Reserves or the National Guard. If he can't that speaks to a lack of resources, which would not be as severe if he had not done this:

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 1):
Bush tax cut amount: $1.35 trillion
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Evac plans aren't . . .

ANCFlyerComrade---we meet again.

Emergency Disaster plans, in my experience with dealing with municipalities, generally have fallen upon County jurisdiction.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
And there are two MAJOR arteries . . . three if you cross Ponchartrain.

Yes. Two.

Comparing other random cities, not accounting for population (all less than 500,000, which was about the immediate New Orleans population)

Norfolk with 8
Wilmington with 5
Savannah with 5
Twin Falls, Idaho with 4

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Start Early, don't stop.

Three words for you on that one: The Big Easy
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 1):
It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.

The largest levee failure (17th Street) occurred in a section that had already been upgraded:


No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/na...ional/nationalspecial/01levee.html

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 8):
Quoting DL757Md (Reply 4):
then why the hell didn't they use every resource available to get everybody out?

Because the Louisiana national guard was guarding some oil pipeline in Iraq.

I said every AVAILABLE resource dimwit. I don't think the hundreds of school busses that ended up under water were being used in Iraq.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):
Simply unbelievable. Nagin apparently had the mindset of some New Orleans residents when it came to "mandatory evacuations." What the fuck? Seriously, blame Bush, blame Bush, blame Bush, but you can't ignore that the city ignored the state disaster planning planning.

Again, kiddies. Learn your public affairs. The levees are outside of the Mayor's jurisdiction.

Hey kiddie, the post you quoted doesn't say anything about the levees as we all know that the levees are run by the ACE. The whole point of this thread is that the local and state governments didn't follow their own evacuation plans. Pretty elementary concept, don't ya think?

Quoting DL757Md (Reply 4):
Does anybody know if the levee improvements had gone ahead as originally scheduled would they have even been finished now?

I'm still waiting for an answer.  zzz 

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
777DadandJr
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:37 am

RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 18):
Quoting DL757Md (Reply 4):
Does anybody know if the levee improvements had gone ahead as originally scheduled would they have even been finished now?

I'm still waiting for an answer. zzz

DL757Md

See reply 17.

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 17):

The largest levee failure (17th Street) occurred in a section that had already been upgraded:


No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/na....html

Russ
My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
 
Pope
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RE: Louisiana Ignores Natural Disaster Plans

Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:31 am

The simple truth is that LA and NOLA politicians (of both parties) were unwilling to tax their citizenry for the improvements they KNEW were needed. Instead, they accepted a Cat 3 levee system tha everyone knew was inadequate. Now because of their decision to keep local property taxes low, we all must pay.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.

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