TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:57 am

Breaking NEWS: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Don't let the door hit you on the A$$!!!!

Updated link:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9315184/

[Edited 2005-09-12 21:10:09]
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prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:09 am

Let's see ... he already bombed out of running horse shows, maybe dog shows are next?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
777DadandJr
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:37 am

RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:12 am

Oh, I've shed a tear.  crying 

Incompetent Boob.

'nuff said.

Russ
My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:27 am

His demotion last Friday was basically his being told to resign. In a statment, he noted his resignation was for the good of FEMA, the victims of Katrina and for the President. Well at least we, uh the Bushies, got someone to be the sacrifical lamb. Didn't this guy know what he was getting into? I would suspect he may have a hard time getting another job unless it involves the pharse "do you want fries with that?"
 
11Bravo
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:29 am

Wow! It only took two weeks for this guy to resign from his position. Now that's what I call strong decisive leadership. Great job Mr. President  bigthumbsup 


Bush=Deer+Headlights
WhaleJets Rule!
 
4holer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:32 am

Mr. Brown, leave your career with the receptionist, and security will escort you from the building.

And no, I checked this week's Classified Ads and no one had a Help Wanted ad for "Inept Figurehead". Sorry.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
stlgph
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
I would suspect he may have a hard time getting another job unless it involves the pharse "do you want fries with that?"

one word -- Halliburton.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:33 am

Congratulations, Mr. Brown, on the best decision of your tenure.  goldmedal  You should have done this a week... or two weeks... or two-and-a-half weeks ago.

 redflag   redflag   redflag   redflag 
redngold
Up, up and away!
 
slider
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:45 am

One down, more to go....

Landreiu, Nagin, Blanco.
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
Halliburton.

Oh how the truth does hurt.  Sad
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FlyingTexan
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:57 am

He is going to apply to be a toll booth operator.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Didn't this guy know what he was getting into?

Apparently the WH didn't know either.. better vetting needs to be made on the next FEMA head..
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):

Landreiu, Nagin, Blanco.

Don't forget POTUS!!!

Quoting MattRB (Reply 11):
better vetting needs to be made on the next FEMA head..

Ya Think? Big grin
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satx
Posts: 2771
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:21 am

Would two years ago have been too much to ask? Finally, a yes man bites the dust instead of another would-be dissenter. Good riddance.

---------------

IAHA tenure

Before joining the DHS/FEMA, Brown was the Judges and Stewards Commissioner for the International Arabian Horse Association, (IAHA), from 1989-2001. After numerous lawsuits were filed against the organization over disciplinary actions[5], Brown was forced to resign.[6]

Brown started his own legal defense fund before resigning, a move he said was necessary to protect his family's assets. [9] However, some IAHA insiders claimed that this was what really led to his ouster. He raised money from breeders for the fund as well as IAHA, creating a conflict of interest. Also, his contract stipulated that IAHA was to pay all his personal legal expenses, on top of his $100,000 annual salary, so there was speculation as to why he needed a personal legal defense fund. [10] IAHA became financially depleted, and had to be merged with the Arabian Horse Registry of America. [11]


Bush administration service

After Bush entered office in January 2001, Brown joined FEMA as General Counsel. He was the first person hired by his long-time friend and college roommate, then-FEMA director Joe Allbaugh[12], who also ran Bush's election campaign in 2000. Allbaugh later named Brown his acting deputy director in September 2001. President Bush formally nominated him as deputy director on March 22, 2002, and the Senate confirmed many months later. Soon after, President Bush nominated him again in January 2003 for the directorship when Allbaugh left to join a private company.[13] Brown was sworn in to his position on April 15, 2003.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
stlgph
Posts: 8927
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:21 am

Well, there's always that extra Supreme Court seat....
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 14):
Well, there's always that extra Supreme Court seat....

Haha - I enjoy STLGph's posts!


And, thank you, SATX, for posting that Wikipedia piece. Allbaugh (former FEMA director) was Chief of Staff when GW was Governor of Texas. He is now a lobbyist for - ahhh KBR (Halliburton Company) - making tons more $$$. He was heavily involved in W's campaign (I forget which position).

[Edited 2005-09-12 22:50:20]
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 8):
One down, more to go....

Landreiu, Nagin, Blanco.

  

And the sooner the better . . . .

Of course, they could continue to snivel and whine like little bitches about how it's all PotUS fault, rather than admit they had plan no one ever really exercised (regardless of what is on paper), and have over 200 busses drowned in NOLA somewhere and no communication system and no logistics prepositioned . . .

Read through the Louisiana Emergency Operations plan again this morning, and continue find abysmal failures on the part of the State and City Governments. Another example:

Part II, Section B, Para 14: Hospitals, Nursing Homes, Group Homes, etc. will have predetermined and/or refuge plans if evacuation becomes necessary. All facilities will have approved Multi-Hazard Emergency Operations Plans as mandated by the State of Louisiana, Dept. of Health and Hospitals (DHH). Before Operating permits are given to homes/hospitals, emergency precautions are to be taken, such as the placement of emergency supplies and adequate equipment (i.e. generators and potable water) on upper floors.

Yes, another example of failure . . . certified hospitals without proper emergency supplies.

EDIT: Neglected to mention - I hope the door hits Brown in the ass on the way out . . . he needed to be fired . . .

[Edited 2005-09-12 23:24:02]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Superfly
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:25 am

I wonder what job Bush has lined up for Michael Brown.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Before Operating permits are given to homes/hospitals, emergency precautions are to be taken, such as the placement of emergency supplies and adequate equipment (i.e. generators and potable water) on upper floors.

I'm sure the definition of "adequate" will be debated in the reviews of what went wrong. Such as the delivery of enough food and water to the Superdome to feed 15,000 for 3 days suddenly became inadequate when 30,000 showed up.
International Homo of Mystery
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Of course, they could continue to snivel and whine like little bitches about how it's all PotUS fault

As much as I have utter disgust for POTUS, Mayor  hissyfit  is no Rudy Giuliani.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
over 200 busses

Make that 590 - available and called for according to the Houston Chronicle (last week).
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:48 am

Agreed Westy - a lot to be debated and refined. Let's hope there are lessons learned - and that learning is exercised - at all levels . . .

Beginning with a a viable plan for use of existing transportation.

Prepositioning of Logistical Requirements - Food, Water, for starters.

On and On and On . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:06 am

George, your turn. Please make it soon. Yes, you are finally doing your job. Too little, too late.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
dan-air
Posts: 600
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Agreed Westy - a lot to be debated and refined. Let's hope there are lessons learned - and that learning is exercised - at all levels . . .Beginning with a a viable plan for use of existing transportation.
Prepositioning of Logistical Requirements - Food, Water, for starters.
On and On and On . . . .

What you say makes a lot of sense, and I agree.

However, the majority of your posts on this matter try to swing blame toward any available Democrat.

Where's your criticism for David Vitter - you know, the other senator from Louisiana, that has been conspicious by his absence from the relief effort. Oh, that's right - he's a REPUBLICAN - gets a free pass from ANCFlyer.

And your President? He said this today, in a pitiful defense of his claim last week that "no-one thought the levees would be breeched":

"What I was referring to is this: When that storm came by, a lot of people said we dodged a bullet. When that storm came through at first, people said, Whew. There was a sense of relaxation. And that’s what I was referring to.

"And I myself thought we had dodged a bullet. You know why? Because I was listening to people probably over the airwaves say, The bullet has been dodged. And that was what I was referring to."


Is he even fucking concious? I read today that WH staff were drawing straws for who would have to give Bush the bad news about the situation in New Orleans, not because they were afraid of the his reaction to the catastrophe, but him facing the prospect of having to cut short his vacation. Some sense of priority huh?

In an emergency of this magnitude, FEMA is supposed to be on-site with 72 hours. Gov. Blanco told Bush ON SATURDAY that they needed "everything you've got". 5 days later, still very little evidence of a federal response. Face facts ANC, Bush gutted FEMA - appointing cronies to the most critical positions - and all this AFTER 9/11.

And now, as happened in Iraq, after the incompetence, the corruption kicks in. You've got former FEMA head and Bush campaign chair Allbaugh getting no bids contracts for the likes of Halliburton KBR - after they skimmed hundreds of millions of your taxpayer dollars in Iraq. Rewarding thievery, it's the Bush family way.

[Edited 2005-09-13 02:37:30]
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 22):
However, the majority of your posts on this matter try to swing blame on any available Democrat.

First of all, that's bullshit. Never, ever once have I specifically named a party, ever - when it related to the debacle on the Gulf Coast . . . what I have said, is Governor  cry , Mayor  hissyfit , (with a few short jabs at Senator  box  ) need to go . . .

That said, since the people in New Orleans and Baton Rouge that are sitting in seats of "power" are in fact Democrats, it's rather by default they bear the brunt of my criticism.

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 22):
Where's your criticism for David Vitter - you know, the otehr senator from Louisiana, that has been conspicious by his absence from the relief effort.

I didn't hear Vitter crawling all over the airwaves blaming every gawddamn body on the planet except the parties responsible - and in fact, he said he should shoulder some of the blame as well . . . all I've seen  cry ,  hissyfit  and  box  do are point their fingers at DC - specifically PotUS - rather than the real issue - which was, and remains, a very shoddy plan, from the top (FEMA) down that wasn't exercised sufficiently enough to ensure it would function.

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 22):
I read today that WH staff were drawing straws for who would have to give Bush the bad news about the situation in New Orleans, not because they were afraid of the his reaction to the catastrophe, but him facing the prospect of having to cut short his vacation. Some sense of priority huh?

Source Please?

As for Halliburton or Bechtel and the like, show me someone with the ability to jump right in an begin to maneuver on target ASAP and I'll be interested . . . if you've not solution other than bitching, perhaps you should change your tack.

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 22):
Face facts ANC

I've been facing facts all week . . . . I took the time to read the entire Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan, and can see just what a clusterfuck it is . . . might as well use it as toilet paper or split it into four parts to elevate a desk . . . it's not worth the paper it's written on unless it's used, exercised, reviewed, and comes complete . . . currently no log package, no commo package.

Now, I've witnessed Conservatives and Liberals, Democrats and Republicans alike spew forth all sorts of finger pointing this past week - myself included of course - and I've found VERY few democrats or liberals here that will even remotely consider that the local and state governments screwed the pooch from Zero Hour on this thing and would rather continue to harp on how screwed up FEMA and PotUS are in this instance. Those people need to take a long gawddamn look in the mirror before tossing stones . . . I suppose I could name names, but it wouldn't matter . . . the fellow A-Netters to whom I refer know who they are . . .

The vitriolic blaming of PotUS with the complete blindness to anything that occured within the state and local governments there is simply assinine.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
The vitriolic blaming of PotUS with the complete blindness to anything that occured within the state and local governments there is simply assinine.

How about 'The vitriolic blaming of the state and local governments with the complete blindness to anything that occured within the executive branch is simply assinine.'  stirthepot 

BTW: I know you have admitted FEMA deserves SOME blame. Looks to me like THE blame goes to a guy who couldn't even run a pony show, much less a DOG and pony show :P

And yes once again, I think state and local 'officials' deserve to get  flamed  themselves.
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11Bravo
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
I've been facing facts all week

Come on dude, that just isn’t at all what you've been doing. You have been systematically slamming the mayor and the governor at every possible opportunity for the last two weeks. I have no idea why you’re doing it, and I really don’t much care, but don’t pretend like your little vendetta against these two is some kind of even-handed analysis. That’s pure BS and you know it.

I also think you’ve erected a duplicitous standard by which you choose to view the various players in this disaster. The mayor and the governor are held to one standard while the president is held to another.

As chief executives you’ve decided that the mayor and the governor are responsible and accountable for their actions during this hurricane. I’ll agree with that because that’s the way it should be. They fucked up and they should answer for it.

With the president, however, you have another standard that says his subordinates are the ones to blame; it’s FEMA’s fault, it’s Brown’s fault, it’s Chertoff’s fault. You do exactly the same thing when we’ve discussed the Iraq War. Okay, fine, if that’s the way you want it, then stop ripping the mayor and the governor and find yourself some cutsie emoticons for their subordinates and tear them a new one.

You can’t have it both ways. If the president isn’t accountable, neither are the mayor and the governor. If you want to apply a hypocritical double standard don’t be surprised when people see that as partisan bias.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 10):
He is going to apply to be a toll booth operator.

Nah, he doesn't have the qualifications-and it's not a job Bush can just give to a big contributor, you know.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 11):
Apparently the WH didn't know either



And, where does the buck stop, with the federal response? With the President. And, in hiring two hacks like Brown and Chertoff, he has let this nation down big-time.

And you want him to pick the next two Supremes? Uh, OK.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:31 pm

Chertoff needs to be next followed by _ _ _ _ then _ _ _ _ _ _.

Fill in the blanks yourself.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:34 pm

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 27):
Chertoff needs to be next followed by _ _ _ _ then _ _ _ _ _ _.

Fill in the blanks yourself.

I'd like to say welcome back, Rsmith, and that I missed you.

But since I haven't missed you one freaking bit, I'll just shake my head in utter amazement and amusement.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:00 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
You have been systematically slamming the mayor and the governor at every possible opportunity for the last two weeks. I have no idea why you’re doing it,

Because I can read a frickin' Operations Plan and execute the damn thing - and those two losers simply can't . . . complacency ran rampant throughout . . . that's why Bravo. And I shall continue to hammer the shit out of them . . . the earned it - just like FEMA did . . .

Lke I said, the blind hatred of PotUS of some on this site prevent them from seeing the big picture my friend.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
If the president isn’t accountable, neither are the mayor and the governor.

Point taken.

Happen to have any spare emoticons I can use???

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
I also think you’ve erected a duplicitous standard by which you choose to view the various players in this disaster.

Ok, point here as well - that said, I invite you look through these threads again and tell me what is different between the posts that blast only PotUS and the posts I've made. Duplicity is the standard of the day, Bravo.

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 27):
Chertoff needs to be next followed by _ _ _ _ then _ _ _ _ _ _.

Hiya Smitty . . . I'm with Falcon . . . like to say welcome back, we missed you, but, ummm, well, I've a policy about lying.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:26 pm

I see Brown's replacement is the "Duct Tape Guy".

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/11/emergency.supplies/

We're doomed.
International Homo of Mystery
 
satx
Posts: 2771
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Lke I said, the blind hatred of PotUS of some on this site prevent them from seeing the big picture my friend.

There's a bit of blind hatred going around and a fair bit of blind loyalty as well.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:03 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
You have been systematically slamming the mayor and the governor at every possible opportunity for the last two weeks. I have no idea why you’re doing it,

Because they were directly responsible for issuing orders both prior to and post Katrina that were either not issued or not issued in time with force behind them. The Mayor and the Governor both dithered when they should have been directly acting as the leaders of their regions and they cost peoples lives.

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 27):
Chertoff needs to be next followed by _ _ _ _ then _ _ _ _ _ _.

Fill in the blanks yourself.

Oh, crap.....I guess B744F has remorphed.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
As chief executives you’ve decided that the mayor and the governor are responsible and accountable for their actions during this hurricane. I’ll agree with that because that’s the way it should be. They fucked up and they should answer for it.

OK...well we agree there.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
With the president, however, you have another standard that says his subordinates are the ones to blame; it’s FEMA’s fault, it’s Brown’s fault, it’s Chertoff’s fault.

Because the President was supposed to issue the orders and send FEMA to assist. Both of those things got done, even if FEMA was not well represented. They, and other disaster relief organizations were there. He's not supposed to go on the scene and usurp the authority of the locals who are supposed to be handling the initial evacuations and response. If he had done so you would all be screaming that he was being a dictator and taking over the country in preparation for some fascist state.

A General expects his task force commanders to accomplish the missions assigned....he supports them and backs them until he can't do it anymore. You don't generally fire someone who is in the middle of a battle.....(yeah, I know that Patton is thought to have done that often, but even he only did it a couple of times, and he was wrong as often as right.....most people on these threads would hate him if he was here today....me and ANC not included).
Some want to say the Brown should have been fired sooner.....well thats a point for debate, but the President did his job. When it was obvious that things were not working and the disaster was bigger than anyone seriously expected it to be on Monday afternoon he sent LTG Honore. When bottlenecks appeared he requested the federalization of the NG troops so that they could be controlled directly instead of through intermediaries....especially since they were obviously not being used as additional LE forces effectively. They mostly seemed to be used through Thursday to keep the Red Cross from supplying aid to the people at the Convention Center at the behest of the Governors DHS in LA.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 25):
If the president isn’t accountable, neither are the mayor and the governor.

Point taken.

Bullshit. The President is accountable for the actions taken by his personnel. So does he get credit for the actions of the military which he commands? The 30k people rescued by the various federal agencies and the military? What about the massive amount of aid that was actually prepositioned by FEMA and the NGOS for whom they were coordinating? Tell me that MAyor N (who is strangely quiet now) and Gov B got anything done worthwhile here. I heard the Gov explaining that her evacuation plan prevented the disaster from being worse........oh my God! Her evacuation plan seemed to be to tell everyone outside the city to get in their cars and leave. That's a tough one...show us what she's done that's productive. The Governor and the Mayor were directly responsible for preventative measures not being properly executed, and they were also responsible for bottlenecks in the aid delivery.

I don't have all the facts yet, but that's not stopping anyone here from issuing their "backed by facts opinions" so here's mine. The problems of FEMA, i.e. too much bureacracy and too little authority to act in the way that people seem to expect them to be able to act, along with the Brown dude who seems out of his depth are secondary to the criminally negligent Mayor and Governor who are lashing out in order to preserve themselves, and being abetted by a large and vocal community of people who are looking for an opportunity to attack the president. These are the same people who are hoping the evacuees stay in Texas in order to tilt the balance of power in the Houston area (thus making them refugees in spite of the desires of the left to play PC games).
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:54 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Because I can read a frickin' Operations Plan and execute the damn thing - and those two losers simply can't

I don’t think we know yet whether the evacuation plan worked or not. In Annex C (C-2) of the state plan they predicted they could get 334,192 people evacuated from Orleans Parish given a storm of Katrina’s strength and velocity (Cat-4, 15mph). There are 462,761 people in the parish, so that means they thought they could evacuate 72%. Media reports suggest that they actually managed to get about 80%.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 32):
I don't have all the facts yet, but that's not stopping anyone here from issuing their "backed by facts opinions" so here's mine.

Okay, here’s mine.

I saw a two-bit mayor from one of the poorest cities in the country who wasn’t prepared to deal with the worst natural disaster in our nation’s history, and I saw a governor from a small state who was overwhelmed by events that wreaked destruction of unprecedented proportion. They failed when the shit hit the fan.

Then I saw something else. I saw the President of the United States freeze and choke. I saw a man who, despite being the most powerful person on the planet, didn’t act, didn’t take charge. I saw a man who didn’t understand what was happening or what his subordinates were doing. I saw a man who every one else was looking to for leadership fail his people and embarrass his high office. I saw a man who, when faced with a crisis of national proportion, wasn’t up to the task.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
virgin744
Posts: 825
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:54 pm

two weeks too late!

virgin744
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:12 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 33):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Because I can read a frickin' Operations Plan and execute the damn thing - and those two losers simply can't

I don’t think we know yet whether the evacuation plan worked or not.

Gawddamn right we know it did NOT work Bravo . . . I've only got to guess you've seen the new Yellow Submarines in New Orleans formerly known as over 500 busses . . . . that were supposed to be used to evac those without the means to do so themselves . . . don't kid yourself, and take off the blasted blinders . . . then go read said evac plan - specifically Part II, Section B, para 5. Also Part III, Section B, Para 1 (a) 8.

How about the Fifty or so dead in Mercy Hospital . . . Please review Section II, B, para 14; Section III, B, para 2 (a) 2 and 3; Section V, A, para 1 and 3(e).

No, Bravo the plan failed, horribly.

Not the least bit of it worked.

It remains a half assed plan anyway . . . you've obviously read it - where's the log pack? Where's the commo pack? What kind of OpOrder is that? It's a complete NoGo in my book.

The Mayor and Governor are inept, negligent, ridiculously in over their heads, and have made total asses out of themselves.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 33):
In Annex C (C-2) of the state plan they predicted they could get 334,192 people evacuated from Orleans Parish given a storm of Katrina’s strength and velocity (Cat-4, 15mph). There are 462,761 people in the parish, so that means they thought they could evacuate 72%. Media reports suggest that they actually managed to get about 80%.

That 80% would be great if the remaining 20% weren't the old, infirm and incapable. My opinion, their dear leader Mayor left them high and dry (no pun intended) in a Domed building equipped with nothing. The 80% that got out were always going to get out no matter what, they had the means. The 20% that did not were left to their destiny by an inept, incompetent city and state government that when presented with the facts - the FACTS - like a NOAA forecast showing them the track and caliber of Katrina - did nothing except tell these 20% to go to the Superdome. Seems to me Nagin figured the 20% would be an acceptable loss.

[Edited 2005-09-13 16:40:48]
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dl021
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:28 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 33):
I saw a two-bit mayor from one of the poorest cities in the country who wasn’t prepared to deal with the worst natural disaster in our nation’s history, and I saw a governor from a small state who was overwhelmed by events that wreaked destruction of unprecedented proportion. They failed when the shit hit the fan.

True. FEMA underestimated the level of their unpreparedness and was thus unprepared and unable to step in fast enough to relieve the problems. FEMA itself has been hamstrung by the manner of it's absorbtion into DHS and that must be addressed. The President got off the dime after the first two days of cockups and sent in the general to begin to smooth things. Within another couple of days he effectively replaced the FEMA head on the ground by appointing a "deputy" in the Admiral (Monday) who is now the on-scene commander in name as well as fact and has made it pretty clear that while the military is not in charge, they are certainly "working very closely" and things started to get done pretty fast starting 24 hours after the arrival of the general on Wednesday.

I'll say that the appointment of a person whos quals seem suspect, with the natural assumption that his subordinates would see him through problems, was wrong and the President corrected that and appointed a career firefighter with 30 years of disaster managament experience as a Miami fireman (he's seen a hurricane or two). What else do you require now of the President. He's been there three times and sent more manpower, equipment and money down there than you can shake a redwood at.......should he commit seppuku?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
t remains a half assed plan anyway . . . you've obviously read it - where's the log pack? Where's the commo pack? What kind of OpOrder is that? It's a complete NoGo in my book.

Log Pack....the locals obviously thought that they came in those cylindrical containers marked Lincoln Logs.
Commo....the locals must have assumed that shouting and their vast supply of dixie cups and string would get the job done.
OpOrder? Is that something you do at the drivethru? I guess they tried to order from the dollar menu.
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Falcon84
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:38 pm

I read on here, from people I respect, that they put the lions' share of the blame on the mayor of one town, and the Governor of one of the states. Yet this is literally going to end up as one of the worst disasters in the history OF THE NATION-not one town, not one state, but of the entire nation. And, if it's a disaster that sends shockwaves throughout the nation, who then, is ultimately responsible for the response to said disaster? The mayor of one town? The governor of one state? It stops at the Oval Office, if I'm not mistaken.

And what do we see when we get to said Oval Office? A president who has hired two political hacks to run the agencies, DHS and FEMA, that were tasked to respond to this situation. We see a president that was extremely, and I mean extremely slow in ramping up the federal response with this storm approaching and then crashing into the coast; we see a GOP-led Congress, even more lax in their approach to this storm. taking it's cue from a GOP President.

The point is this: there is blame for the mayor of NOLA and the Governor of Louisiana. Absolutely. No doubt. But this crisis goes beyond that city and that state, and is affecting the daily lives of almost every American. And, in that case, we should look to the president for leadership and guidance, something he's sorely lacked in this disaster. Ultimately, the power of the United States will be needed to clean up these three states-and that power doesn't emminate from the Mayor's office in NOLA, nor the Governor's office in Louisiana, but from the White House. And it is with the White House, in my view, that the criticism should be rightly laid.
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omoo
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:53 pm

whats next for brown? Dog Shows ? Cat Parades or back to Horses?
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dl021
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
that they put the lions' share of the blame on the mayor of one town, and the Governor of one of the states.

Where it properly belongs. They were tasked as the first responders.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
. Yet this is literally going to end up as one of the worst disasters in the history OF THE NATION-not one town, not one state, but of the entire nation

True.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
And, if it's a disaster that sends shockwaves throughout the nation, who then, is ultimately responsible for the response to said disaster? The mayor of one town? The governor of one state? It stops at the Oval Office, if I'm not mistaken.

The response is a shared issue. I'll point out the devastation along the coast of Mississippi and Alabama....how that seems to have been tough, but nowhere near the level of mismanagement or recriminations as in LA. I'll also point to last years disaster in Florida when three major hurricanes hit the same area in a month. The response was up to the task in these areas.

In this case where the combined disasters of storm and flooding were made worse with the lack of preparedness on the part of the locals, and the lack of foresight on the problems the locals would have by FEMA, along with the asinine bureaucracy that forces on scene commanders to run decisions by DC and demand email requests for supplies from Sheriffs in their patrol cars trying to supply water to a shelter spread the blame for the delayed response around. It needs to be fixed, as we need a worst case scenario response ability to work better.
Responsibility does end up with the President, if not in law then in morality, and I think we're seeing the results of the remedial actions taken in the wake of the disaster response when no one was happy with what happened. This will take the changing of laws as well as the restructuring of a Federal Department to manage the review and corrections to every state and local emergency management agency in the country. If the President fails to take these actions in light of the overwhelming

Now..let me say this last thing. It seems that the predictions (which I accepted as a serious possibility) of 10,000 dead were vastly overstated. In the words of LTG Honore "we didn't know what we didn't know" and that's the problem here. We don't know it all yet, but everyone seems to have made up their minds within 24 hours of the storm. Amazing how that works. The sound byte generation and the demand for perfection and immediacy. I want it too, but I don't know how to expect it. Hell, the airlines can't even make their flights take off on time.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
we see a GOP-led Congress, even more lax in their approach to this storm

I dunno about that. They seemed to come off the hip with the money pretty fast, and that's about all they can do up front.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
And, in that case, we should look to the president for leadership and guidance, something he's sorely lacked in this disaster. Ultimately, the power of the United States will be needed to clean up these three states-and that power doesn't emminate from the Mayor's office in NOLA, nor the Governor's office in Louisiana, but from the White House. And it is with the White House, in my view, that the criticism should be rightly laid.

I disagree. He made the best of a bad situation and refused to cast negativity on the scene publicly while setting his people to start fixing the deal pretty quickly. What do you think the country needs? Someone who screams bloody murder or someone who stays calm and sends the help needed to unblock the logjam? It ain't like the help wasn't there...it wasn't in the path of the storm and the trip to get it where it needed to be was screwed up by the aforementioned items plus whatever we don't yet know about. The locals should have prepared their shelters and evacuation plans to account for the people who don't have cars and could not afford a couple days worth of food (or simply would not step up to take care of themselves demanding that the government hold their hand).
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
The point is this: there is blame for the mayor of NOLA and the Governor of Louisiana. Absolutely. No doubt. But this crisis goes beyond that city and that state, and is affecting the daily lives of almost every American. And, in that case, we should look to the president for leadership and guidance, something he's sorely lacked in this disaster. Ultimately, the power of the United States will be needed to clean up these three states-and that power doesn't emminate from the Mayor's office in NOLA, nor the Governor's office in Louisiana, but from the White House. And it is with the White House, in my view, that the criticism should be rightly laid.

We'll be on opposite teams here my friend. While certainly there is blame to go all around, to every quarter, certainly you can't expect the White House to micromanage every city and every coutny and every state that refuses or is too blasted ignorant to manage themselves. Louisiana and New Orleans were wholly unprepared . . . not just for Katrina I suspect, but for any major catastrophic event (based on their performance) . . . we cannot expect or demand the White House micromanage every detail. UNTIL it's proven the state/local government is inept. That was definitely proven in this case by early Tuesday after Katrina hit and the levees breached/failed. At that point I would start pointing at DC. I give credit to LTG Honore' - he walked into a shit storm and still smells like roses . . . damn I'd like to have served with him.
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Falcon84
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting Omoo (Reply 38):
ats next for brown? Dog Shows ? Cat Parades or back to Horses?

Well, there's that opening on the USSC.  Big grin

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
Where it properly belongs. They were tasked as the first responders.

No, it doesn't, Ian. It belongs on the president. You know, "preseve, protect and defend". It's ultimately HIS responsibility, not that of the may of ONE TOWN, or the governor of one state. The blame ultimately lies at the top of the food chain. Hell, had this been a certain other president, the wails from those who won't even put any responsibility on this president would be deafining.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
The response is a shared issue

Especially if it's a Republican president that YOU voted for, Ian? There is and will be some shared recriminations, no doubt, but, ultimately, this is a NATIONAL disaster, and the buck allegedly stops with the president, although with this president, he has passed the buck so often it's just old habit now with him-and with those who constatly run interference for him.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
I'll also point to last years disaster in Florida when three major hurricanes hit the same area in a month. The response was up to the task in these areas.

Gee, you don't see the irony in that, Ian? This preisdent was next to the governor of that state immediately-oh, did I mention it's his brother as well, during an ELECTION YEAR? He was down there so fast because of those reasons. He didn't feel the same urgency when this storm hit? Why is that? Putting isn't a help to Mr. Bush, it's an indictment of him with this disaster.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
I dunno about that.

Is that why Hastert said he couldn't go down to the region because it interfered with his fund rasing activities? Uh, OK.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
I disagree. He made the best of a bad situation and refused to cast negativity on the scene publicly while setting his people to start fixing the deal pretty quickly

Ian, stop kissing this guy's ass, will you? It's embarrassing. This guy didn't make the best of a bad situation. He sent two political hacks in Chertoff and Brown down there, who didn't have a clue; he didn't respond with any sense of urgency; It took him a full day AFTER things went to hell in NOLA before he decided to end his 5-week vacation. He screwed up. And all you can do is blame one mayor, one governor, and let this president off scot free?

Sorry, Ian, but that's obscene. It's disgusting. It's the same old shit we've come to expect from certain people of a certain political persuasion to always let this guy, who has led this nation into the toilet, off the hook, and conveniently blame others.

He is the President of the United States.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
What do you think the country needs?

LEADERSHIP! And more freaknig leadership than he's provided so far on this thing. He's been behind the curve at ever turn, and you DEFEND HIM!! That's just repugnant. Ultimately, he is responsible to "preserve, protect and defend"-not the mayor of NOLA, nor the Governor of La. But the president. But left to you, he gets not one ounce of blame?

Thank God most of the country doesn't see it as you do, Ian. Thank God more people seem to have a lot more common sense when it comes to where the blame goes.
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cornish
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:19 am

What on earth has he resigned for??

He was doing "A Heck of a Job"  Wink
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
I'll also point to last years disaster in Florida when three major hurricanes hit the same area in a month. The response was up to the task in these areas.

Gee, you don't see the irony in that, Ian? This preisdent was next to the governor of that state immediately-oh, did I mention it's his brother as well, during an ELECTION YEAR?

Falcon, I'll take this another direction and omit Florida from the map. . . .

I don't see the folks along the Gulf Coast of Mississippi and Alabama sniveling like three year olds - I don't see the Mayor of Biloxi - a destroyed city crying foul - I don't see the Governor of Mississippi crying in his Wheaties. Nope, what I see is a place that has kicked itself in the ass and begun to pick itself up. Nothing to do with siblings in the White House or a Governor's mansion. Just people with more motivation than that of a door stop. While I'll agree the loss of life, and continued devastation in NOLA is probably worse than Biloxi, Gulfport, Ocean Sptings, etc, you need to remember those cities aren't just flooded with an intact downtown - they are gone. Obliterated.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
not the mayor of NOLA, nor the Governor of La.

I beg your pardon . . . that's just hogwash Bubba . . . these two individuals are initially responsible for their city and state, and they failed, miserably and wholly.
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dl021
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
No, it doesn't, Ian. It belongs on the president.

Read the laws and the relationship between FEMA, the federal government and the states. It'll clarify things for you.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
had this been a certain other president

Nope...I'd say the same thing about President Clinton. I also would not be the one standing up while the rescue was 12 feet under water calling for his resignation. I'd wait until afterwards when there was an exploration and determination of the problems.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
ee, you don't see the irony in that, Ian? This preisdent was next to the governor of that state immediately-oh, did I mention it's his brother as well, during an ELECTION YEAR?

Horsecrap. That is a completely incorrect accusation. The response in Florida worked because they were practiced at the exercise. They planned ahead and were ready to work with FEMA as well as anyone else who could help.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Is that why Hastert said he couldn't go down to the region because it interfered with his fund rasing activities? Uh, OK.

Please source that for me. If he refused to travel to the region so he could do a fundraiser then I'll be as critical of him as anyone.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
an, stop kissing this guy's ass, will you? It's embarrassing

There's a difference between asskissing and saying what I see. You don't see the difference between telling someone what you think and insulting them sometimes so I'm not surprised here.

OK...so since you did not get the point of my previous criticisms of the federal government response here they are again.
1. They had a leader at FEMA with suspect credentials.
2. They have far too much bureaucracy and restrictive oversight on field operations. This wastes time and assets.
3. FEMA should have inspected the plans and capabilities of the locals prior to the storm. The plans were adequate looking, but had someone looked at the actual preparations and capabilities they would have foreseen the bottlenecks and snafus that seem to plague the initial response.
4. President Bush approved the plan to move FEMA into DHS and it was approved by Congress in the budget appropriations so they all deserve criticism for any shifting of focus at FEMA from disaster management to counter terrorism....although I'm not sure what the difference is between responding to a poison gas attack in a city and a hurricane is...you must evacuate in both cases, except that with a hurricane you have advance notice.
5. I did not see the press conference in Mobile, but Slam imed me and told me what happened. That was stupid. They should have said in Mobile what the President said in MS later that day. Things are not happening fast enough and the response is unacceptable. We're going to fix that right this minute. For that he needs to fire whoever was the one who suggested that dog and pony show. I do think that he needs to continue to focus on this situation and provide what the federal government can to help. He said on the Friday in Biloxi..."we have plenty of resources and will...we'll handle this and come out better." You might not like the optimism, but I think that's part of his job. Let someone else scream at the pooch screwers and move forward.
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Falcon84
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 42):
What on earth has he resigned for??

He was doing "A Heck of a Job"

Translation: It's the Son of "Read My Lip, No New Taxes"  Smile

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 43):
I beg your pardon . . . that's just hogwash Bubba . . . these two individuals are initially responsible for their city and state, and they failed, miserably and wholly.

I see it differently. Much of what they need is reliant upon FEMA on a national scale doing their jobs, and it wasn't done. Again, there's more than enough blame-like why the mandatory evac wasn't issued Saturday instead of Sunday morning, when more resources could have been brought to bear, but in the end, with something on this large a scale, to me at least, it goes back to the President.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
Horsecrap. That is a completely incorrect accusation. The response in Florida worked because they were practiced at the exercise.

No, it's not horseshit, Ian. It's right on point. And the response was fast because POTUS made sure it was set up to help his brothers' state, during an election year. Remember, his dad was skewered in '92 with a slow response to Hurrican Andrew-in an election year, no less. You telling me the two sons didn't remember that lesson? Hogwash.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
1. They had a leader at FEMA with suspect credentials.

And who is ultimately to blame for that?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
2. They have far too much bureaucracy and restrictive oversight on field operations. This wastes time and assets.

And who is ultimately to blame for that?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
Let someone else scream at the pooch screwers and move forward.

But that doesn't stop you from, really, failing to critisize this President AT ALL, and screaming at the Mayor and Governor, does it, Ian?

The mayor and Guv aren't immune from criticism, but neither is the President, and, ultimately, he will get the most blame-fair or not-because this is a national disaster in it's fullest scope.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
I see it differently

No Shit!?  silly  biggrin 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Much of what they need is reliant upon FEMA on a national scale doing their jobs, and it wasn't done.

IN THE AFTERMATH, I'll agree. Much of what they needed before Katrina made landfall was their own responsibility, and even addressed in the plan I have so often quoted (by paragraph and line number), and was simply ignored or not prepared at all, period.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
-like why the mandatory evac wasn't issued Saturday

Pleae, ask Mayor  hissyfit  WHY he failed to take that action when plainly the NOAA had alerted him to the fact that Katrina was a Cat 5, over 300 miles wide and aimed at Bourbon Street - and made this alert on FRIDAY? Please ask Nagin . . . maybe you can get an answer, no one else has been able too . . . he simply goes of on a tangent about how he was fucked over by the feds . . .

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
The mayor and Guv aren't immune from criticism, but neither is the President, and, ultimately, he will get the most blame-fair or not-because this is a national disaster in it's fullest scope.

I'm forced to agree in principal with this statement . . . whether that blame is deserved or not . . . the feds will wind up hosting it, as will PotUS solely because of the scale of the debacle. I, as you know, think the lions share of the blame lies with an illprepared state and local government attempting to use PotUS and FEMA as a scapegoat for their own extreme shortsightedness and inept leadership and readiness.
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dl021
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
1. They had a leader at FEMA with suspect credentials.

And who is ultimately to blame for that?

I already pointed this out in the following.


Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
...so since you did not get the point of my previous criticisms of the federal government response here they are again.
1. They had a leader at FEMA with suspect credentials



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 44):
2. They have far too much bureaucracy and restrictive oversight on field operations. This wastes time and assets.



Quoting DL021 (Reply 39):
Responsibility does end up with the President, if not in law then in morality,



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
The mayor and Guv aren't immune from criticism, but neither is the President, and, ultimately, he will get the most blame-fair or not-because this is a national disaster in it's fullest scope.

So, you admit that criticism of the President is not fair?  Wink Listen....I don't think that the President's administration, for which he is responsible, did the best job here. Was it criminal negligence on their part? I don't think you can say that. They aren't the ones who published plans that they refused to follow when the storm was headed their way and the feds (the president) declared an emergency in advance for them.
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11Bravo
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
It remains a half assed plan anyway . . . you've obviously read it - where's the log pack? Where's the commo pack? What kind of OpOrder is that? It's a complete NoGo in my book.

Part of the problem here with much of your criticism is that you are making assumptions, based on semantics, about the state’s Emergency Operations Plan. This document is not an “Op Order” as you would have it. It is a planning document specifically designed to be used as a strategic overview of the situation within the context of the Incident Command System (ICS). This document provides the Incident Commander (IC) with goals, objectives, and an organizational framework. In terms of a military analog, it is a Warning Order not an Operations Order.

Within the National Incident Management System (NIMS), which is in use by both the state and feds in this case, the document you are looking for is called the Incident Action Plan (IAP) Typically in a large incident such as this the day is divided into two Operational Periods and an IAP is produced for each. This is where you find detailed operational assignments, communication plans, and logistics procedures.

Here is a link for you, from the Basic ICS course, which explains in detail how an IAP should be produced. There is a blank plan at the end so you can get an idea of exactly what details are included.

http://www.auxetrain.org/ICS/reftextm11.pdf

I have not seen any IAPs for Katrina either from the Louisiana OEP, or FEMA, but that’s not unusual at this stage. All the IAPs become part of the Incident Record and are available through a FOIA request eventually. I expect we’ll see some Katrina IAPs on the web or in the media once this thing settles down.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Embattled Fema Chief Michael Brown Resigns

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 48):
In terms of a military analog, it is a Warning Order not an Operations Order.

What ever term you'd like my friend - it's incomplete and still rates a NoGo for not including the basics . . .

I am familiar with ICS plans . . . you bet we've got them up here, and we actually exercise them . . . including the use of "simulated" casualties, evacuation of said casualties (actually MOVING the people from point A, B, C to a hospital) . . . they also include commo and logistics . . .

When I mentioned Communications I'm not talking about listing phone numbers or anything . . . I'm talking much simpler than that . . .

When I talk logistics I'm not counting forks, knives and spoons at the local shelter either . . . again I'm talking much simpler than that.

The general details should be outlined in this "Warning Order", with the minute planning coming at a lower level . . . in this case, the City or Parish Emergency Operations Plan. This Warning order doesn't even make a reference to them.

I've tried that link, I get a Gateway Timeout on my office computer . . . I'll look at it later this evening on my personal box.
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