ManxATP
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Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:30 am

Okay - firstly, sorry to those of you who are tired of another ‘gay’ thread, but I think there is a sizeable number of us who find them interesting.

Anyway, I am interested in knowing whether you can identify any gay/lesbian relations in your family tree and whether there is any pattern of occurrence. My personal view is that sexuality is a genetically determined aspect of an individual, like much else. Whilst I concede there is an extent to which environmental factors play a part, I think this is more in terms of how people identify themselves. For example there are a number of cultures in which homosexuality is prevalent but the concept of being gay, near none-existent. If sexuality is determined in such as way then it would make sense for homosexuality to run in a family. Whilst again there is the issue of how people identify themselves (and there are unlikely to be footnotes to such effect in the family bible!) I think it is still possible to make interpretations.

When looking at my own family I feel such a pattern exists. I am gay, and when I talk to my Granddad about his fathers side of the family it appears as though his aunt and uncle were both gay. Certainly his aunt shared a bed and was very close to their female maid, never marrying. Likewise his uncle never had any female lovers, and looking through his possessions there are a number of sketches and images of male acquaintances that could potentially be more than friends. Could it not be that such a gene is recessive, skipping generations (and hence explaining why I’m here). Thinking of other families I know, there are similar patterns concerning aunts and uncles with both gay and straight siblings. The main problem with the idea is if my great, great uncle was gay, then being open about it could have landed him in prison, and so it’s very hard to verify.

Has anybody any ideas or opinions? Can you identify anything similar with your family?

[Edited 2005-09-13 18:30:27]
 
soups
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:46 am

i once dated a guy..... his brother is gay and his sister is bisexual...
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saigonhouston
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:50 am

My friend....... his parents has 4 son. Three of them are gays.

saigonhouston
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:13 am

I think that's a quite interesting thread. I also believe that sexuality is more genetically determined than by the environment (which also plays a role, but to a lesser extent). Unfortunately this theory doesn't find any support in my family: I am apparently the only gay around  silly 

There are other families I know where this is different, though: for example I know brothers who are both gay. Maybe it's just a coincidence, maybe not. Who knows?

-Manuel
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
AMERICAN757
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:42 am

im pretty sure im the only gay in my family. no traces of any that were in the past.
 
cxsjr
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:45 am

No history of it in my family that I know of, but must admit I had my suspicions about my nephew until he married ... but then that means nothing as I too was married once (thankfully, my ex-wife is still my best friend!).

My partner is a triplet, and has 7 brothers/sisters in all, and again no history of homosexuality in his family - although we did catch his sister kissing another girl on a drunken night out once but now she is happily settled with a cute guy!

A good friend of ours has, believe it or not, suspicions about his Dad. His Mum & Dad split up and ever since, his Dad spends a lot of time with a male 'friend'.

So, IMO, whilst there could be links, as you have rightly pointed out, in view of the very closed society in which our ancestors grew up, it's really difficult to tell who did what behind closed doors?

 confused 
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Jetset763
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:53 am

It does not run in my family, I'm the only one who is gay and looking back at my family tree I can't find any family members who are/were gay.
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desertjets
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:54 am

While I strongly believe that sexuality is biologically determined. I do not believe that it is passed along from generation to generation like hair color or eye color. I also do not believe that human sexuality is simply a binary or even a trinary construct, that rather it exists along a continium from heterosexual to homosexual, with varying degrees in between.

To discover a strong hereditary basis for homosexuality in your family you'd have to dig back fairly far to get a big enough picture to even have a large enough sample to draw any sort of conclusion. And even then I'd be suspect of any results you might get.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting ManxATP (Thread starter):
Has anybody any ideas or opinions? Can you identify anything similar with your family?

As often as I've thought about it, my family tree has too many Southern Democrats popping out babies faster than you can count 'em in the genealogy.

But then, growing up in the SF Bay Area in the 60's and 70's, in a family deeply involved in the arts, and recognizing that friends of my parents did more than share a flat together, didn't make what I was feeling myself seem at all a bit queer.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:21 am

As far as I know, there aren't any homosexuals in our family.
 
flyAUA
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:23 am

I don't think there is such a thing as a gay gene. Then again I haven't got a PhD in human genetics. I do however believe that when X&Y take place, a gay child can be concieved. After all it IS proven that we are genetically different.

I also don't believe that if I am gay my brother or kids (if I were to ever have any) need to be gay. But, there is evidence (again) that suggests the higher the number of consecutive kids you get with the same gender, the higher the probability that they are gay. In that study they found that the highest probability peaked when you're 3rd consecutive kid is male.

Well, guess what? I'm the 3rd male amongst my siblings! Shit really hit the fan the night I was concieved  Silly
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BCAL
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:30 am

I'm the only gay in my family and nobody dare trespass in it!

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Matt27
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):

Hahaha  rotf 
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BA767s
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:34 am

Would appear so. I am, and so is my uncle. Also, a gay boy at skool has a sister who swings that way too.

John  Smile
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seb146
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:46 am

But some families are not able to trace things like this. My father's family is like this. The men will marry women and the women will marry men. Period. Mom's side is a little more open but still, it is not something they talk about. So, I have no idea.

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AIR757200
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:48 am

To my knowledge, I'm the only homosexual in the family, including extended family -- and we are talking of at least 40 first total cousins on both sides of the family.

I have a friend however that has two older brothers of which are gay also- they are hot also!  Smile
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 am

I'm just dying to hear from Cfalk.
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stlgph
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:12 am

so far, I seem to be the only one. which is surprising considering my family's background.

oh well.
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RobertNL070
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:24 am

My uncle (father's youngest brother) is gay, and I am gay. My boyfriend's brother is gay and that's it: their parents have no other 'straight' children, and therefore no 'natural' grandchildren. I do have two heterosexual siblings and three nephews and one niece.

Regards, Robert  bouncy 
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ManxATP
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:43 am

Perhaps I was being over simplistic by suggesting that sexuality was as clearly defined as gay or straight. There are of cause many shades of grey in between, however perhaps this could be where self perception and environment are influential? I guess that the consistency of the number of homosexuals (the much contested 10% figure) is suggestive of some sort of pre-determination, rather than it being a completely arbitrary factor.

There would be difficulties in researching such a notion (i.e. the inability to disprove the hypothesis) because how can anybody, for certain, label a dead ancestors sexuality!? It is completely contestable and reliant on anecdotal evidence - I just hope granddad wasn't having a 'senior moment'!! Wink
 
UAL747
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:00 am

My great uncle was gay. That's the only one identified in my family with homosexual tendencies, other than me. He died of AIDS in the 80's, so he kind of came out in his last days on the earth, because it was obvious. Sad, really, he was so afraid of people knowing he had AIDS that he told everyone he had cancer. But, in all honesty, I was about 8 when he died, so perhaps he told me that because cancer seemed easier to understand for a child. But I think society had put a lot of shame on him for being gay AND having AIDS.

Other than that, I can't think of any that are gay, though I do question some members of my family.

UAL
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Jetset763
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:09 am

Wow I am really suprised how many other gay people there is on this forum  wave , I've only just joined this forum and there are loads. It must have something to do with Aviation! - I wonder what the connection is though....hmmm
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carmenlu15
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Jetset763 (Reply 21):
I wonder what the connection is though....hmmm

You know, I asked the same question when I came here!
Homosexuality And Aviation: Just A Question... (by Carmenlu15 Jun 27 2005 in Non Aviation)
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
soups
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:46 am

Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
ZRH
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting AMERICAN757 (Reply 4):
im pretty sure im the only gay in my family

Hey young man. You bring up another question. You say that you are gay. I see in your profile that your age is between 13 and 15. For that you are in the middle or even beginning (if you are only 13) of puberty. I really doubt that a boy or girl at this age already can tell if he/she is gay, hetero or bi. I remember that with the age of 14 I was interested in girls and boys. I think most people only can be sure perhaps between 16 and 18. Of course everybody is different.
 
flyAUA
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:04 am

I already "knew" when I was 13. I was only "sure" though when I was 17.
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ZRH
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 25):
I already "knew" when I was 13. I was only "sure" though when I was 17.

Yes, that was what I actually wanted to ask. At this young age you probably guess something, but to be really sure you have to pass puberty (17-18 or even later). I know some guys who really enjoyed to masturbate and have BJs with other boys till they were 16 or 17 (and had no sex with girls) and now they are straight and would not want to have any sex with males. I think this is interesting and I really believe that most people are somehow a little bit bisexual.
 
flyAUA
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 26):
I know some guys who really enjoyed to masturbate and have BJs with other boys till they were 16 or 17 (and had no sex with girls) and now they are straight and would not want to have any sex with males. I think this is interesting and I really believe that most people are somehow a little bit bisexual.

I think most people go through that phase of experimentation. I wouldn't go as far as calling it bisexuality though, since they have already established it's not for them anymore  Wink
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A340600
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 24):
Hey young man. You bring up another question. You say that you are gay. I see in your profile that your age is between 13 and 15. For that you are in the middle or even beginning (if you are only 13) of puberty. I really doubt that a boy or girl at this age already can tell if he/she is gay, hetero or bi. I remember that with the age of 14 I was interested in girls and boys. I think most people only can be sure perhaps between 16 and 18. Of course everybody is different.

Hmm, I came out first when I was 13, having known a bit before that even, and haven't gone back since, so it is definately true that some people realise much younger than others.

As to the topic, no traces of anyone else gay in my family,

Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
ZRH
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:36 am

Quoting A340600 (Reply 28):
Hmm, I came out first when I was 13,

That's really early. With 13 I even did not really know much about sex and was not yet into puberty. But obviously I was late bloomer  Wink .
 
MEA-707
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:44 am

My sister is lesbian, and some aunts, and we even suspect our grandma (now deceased) that she was stuck into a straight relationship with our grandpa just because that was expected back them. Didnt find male gays though.
I think its mainly stastistics that some have 1 or 2 gay siblings and others none.
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UAL747
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting Jetset763 (Reply 21):
Wow I am really suprised how many other gay people there is on this forum   , I've only just joined this forum and there are loads. It must have something to do with Aviation! - I wonder what the connection is though....hmmm

I've ALWAYS wondered what the gay/aviation connection was. There has to be something inherent. I mean, just by looking at a.net as a microcosm of the world, there are SO many gay people on the site. But then again, gay people tend to be very vocal about issues, especially when it pertains to being gay. I guess the only TRUE way to know what percentage of a.net users are gay would be to do a Yes/No survey of perhaps a population base of 1000 people. So I guess the question is, are there REALLY that many gay people on a.net, or are we just more vocal? I mean, I can totally see some of us getting that "Miss Thang" thing going on when we talk about politics and Airbus vs. Boeing. Though, I think Airbus wins out on the gay factor, because it's SOOOO Euro, elegant, and slinder looking. Boeing tends to produce more masculine, beefy looking planes that look like bodybuilders on steroids. However, I happen to be a Boeing fan. I guess that says something about my taste in men? LOLOLOL.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 24):
Hey young man. You bring up another question. You say that you are gay. I see in your profile that your age is between 13 and 15. For that you are in the middle or even beginning (if you are only 13) of puberty. I really doubt that a boy or girl at this age already can tell if he/she is gay, hetero or bi. I remember that with the age of 14 I was interested in girls and boys. I think most people only can be sure perhaps between 16 and 18. Of course everybody is different.

Blasphemy! I KNEW I was gay just a short time after getting my friend, (used that since there's not a similar colloquial phrase for male ejaculation as there is for a women getting her period). That was around age 11/12. But I hit puberty VERY early. Anyway, one of three scenarios could be possible. Either, A: The World in Which American757 lives is rather open and he's allowed to be himself sexually, though I doubt he's having much sex, OR B: He's not really gay or C: perhaps he DOES have a boyfriend in a middle/freshman in high school sense. Where you court each other, hang out, talk on the phone, go see movie go walk around the mall, comes over to pla video games. You know, innocent things teenager things.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
redngold
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:22 am

Waaay back and not directly in line with my personal lineage, we "suspect" that my grandmother's uncle was gay. He had a male companion living with him until his death. Nobody really talked about it but it was pretty much an open secret.


redngold

Edited to add info

[Edited 2005-09-14 03:23:40]
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We're Nuts
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 31):
Anyway, one of three scenarios could be possible.

Let's just ask.  scratchchin 
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searpqx
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:57 am

We've got them all over my family. My 1/2 brother (dad & second wife) is gay. Further up the chain, My maternal Grandfather's brother and nephew are gay, as are my mom's maternal Grandmother's nephews. So, I guess it's all my mom's fault!  Wink
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LH423
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:04 pm

As far as I know, I'm the only gay person in my family. Though I have had my suspicions about one of my cousins, he's still too young to be sure. Though, I'm not entirely certain there aren't more.

LH423
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beowulf
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:53 pm

A very interesting question and even more interesting answers. In some family trees there seem to be a lot of "gay traces" and in others not. Maybe we could get an expert on genetics to participate in the discussion.  Wink

One answers to why some have more "gay traces" than others may be that their family is larger and also more open minded. If you have a small family, the "10% rule" will result in a low absolute number; whereas in the case of a large family, the absolute figure will be higher.

Nick
 
ManxATP
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:41 pm

I think Beowulf has a point that such things are bound to depend upon family size a little. My grandfather and dad are both only child’s and (I'm assuming!) straight, so without siblings there was no opportunity for the gene to surface. I, on the other hand, am one of two and my brother is straight. It could, however, be entirely coincidental.

As to what ZRH mentioned, I don’t think 13 is too young to have a grasp of ones sexuality. In my case it hit me at the same time as puberty (about 12) and there was never any doubt in my mind from then on.
 
Barcode
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:16 pm

As far as I know, nobody else in my family is gay. I've been suspicious of one of my 11 (!) siblings for years; but it's not my place to intrude. Heck, with so many of us, I figure one of us will be gay, bi, whatever. So far, I'm the only one.

I would say I decided I was gay at about 15 - having had feelings for a friend of mine for a few years. However, I didn't make the connection between those feelings and the feelings I should have for a lover. I just assumed it was some sort of odd phase.

Of course, if the subject were treated normally, and not as something taboo, then maybe I would not have spent several years feeling like a total freak, and being very afraid somebody would discover my 'secret.' So in the end, the only problems I've ever had due to being gay have been caused by other people.

Many of my gay friends claim they knew at an early age. My girlfriend only realised it for sure when she was 30. I've also known people fall in love with their own sex going into their 40's and 50's. As a general rule though, I do think most of us know when we're teenagers.
 
UAL747
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:17 pm

OH, I guess I must post this as it is relevant. My father was adopted, so I don't know that much about the Paternal side of my family.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
beowulf
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting ManxATP (Reply 37):
[...] so without siblings there was no opportunity for the gene to surface. I, on the other hand, am one of two and my brother is straight. It could, however, be entirely coincidental.

I am not up to par on genetics these days, but is sexual orientation determined by specific genes? If we look at evolution, only a sexual orientation leading to reproduction makes sense as a species would otherwise be extinct. In that sense heterosexuality is the "normal" sexual orientation, and maybe homosexuality is a "glitch" in evolution, just as humans are not as furry as they used to be in the stone age.

What is interesting though is where a concentration of homosexuals in a family are. That may defy the 10% "rule". An important element in looking at one's family history is how open the issue is dealt with.

Nick
 
TWFirst
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:47 pm

I am one of four children.... we're ALL gay (3 male 1 female).

I also have male first cousins on both sides who are gay, and I suspect a couple other male first cousins on my mom's side are also gay.

So yes... I believe both my mother and father carried some type of genetic marker, and when they bred, it resulted in an explosion of four fabulous homosexuals!
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Matt27
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:53 pm

As for as I know I am the only one in my family, but I have my suspicions about one of my cousins.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 10):
. In that study they found that the highest probability peaked when you're 3rd consecutive kid is male.

Hmmmm, and I have two older brothers..... scratchchin 
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LH423
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 42):
Hmmmm, and I have two older brothers.....

As do I. That certainly would explain a lot!  Smile

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
scamp
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:50 am

I'm gay, my late younger brother was also gay.
If it pisses off the right, I'm all for it.
 
scamp
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 24):
Hey young man. You bring up another question. You say that you are gay. I see in your profile that your age is between 13 and 15. For that you are in the middle or even beginning (if you are only 13) of puberty. I really doubt that a boy or girl at this age already can tell if he/she is gay, hetero or bi. I remember that with the age of 14 I was interested in girls and boys. I think most people only can be sure perhaps between 16 and 18. Of course everybody is different.

Honey, I knew I "preferred" boys (okay, you pervs, MALES!) before I even knew it was used for something other than peeing from...like 5 or 6.
If it pisses off the right, I'm all for it.
 
ussherd
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:39 am

While I don't know of anyone else in my family who is gay, there is a history of "confirmed bachelors" on my mother's side of the family. My mom has quite a few male cousins, uncles and great uncles who never married, or married when they were quite old. This is pure speculation on my part, but intriguing nevertheless.

The genes do seem to have a part to play, but it's clear that genetics alone can't account for the pattern that is seen for homosexuality. In my opinion, the most plausible explanation is that certain individuals have a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality, and whether or not those individuals turn out to be gay or straight, is down to a slew of environmental factors. Of these environmental factors, the most influential by far is likely to be the womb. In light of the existing information, it would probably be more correct to say that homosexuality is of biological, rather than genetic, origin.

It's interesting to note that the pattern seen for left-handedness is very similar to that seen for homosexuality. We still don't know exactly what makes some people left-handed, although it's commonly assumed that the trait runs in families. If the scientists still haven't managed to find out what exactly makes people left handed, imagine how much more complex it would be to find out the whys and wherefores of something as complex as sexual orientation.
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BA767s
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:55 am

If it's too young at the age of 13 to know if your gay, does that mean that its too young at 13 to know if you are straight???

Whenever people ask me at skool, 'how do you know you are gay?' I say 'How do you know you are straight?' Shuts em up! Know what I mean?

John  Smile
Come on, let's fly!
 
Jetset763
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RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:58 am

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, I've known from a very young age that I was gay- probably 11 or 12 years old but it took a good few years for me to come to terms with it and admit it.
hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?
 
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ManuCH
Crew
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Gay - In The Family Tree?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting BA767s (Reply 47):
Whenever people ask me at skool, 'how do you know you are gay?' I say 'How do you know you are straight?' Shuts em up! Know what I mean?

It's also funny when people ask you "How do you know you're gay if you've never had sex with a woman?" ... the right answer is: "How do you know you're straight if you've never had sex with a man?". That also shuts em up Big grin

-Manuel
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself

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