tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:05 am

Well, what do you think?

- We're fighting a war in Iraq that is costing us about $80 billion a year.
- We're fighting a war in Afghanistan (don't know the numbers on this).
- The reconstruction cost of Katrina is estimated to be at least $80 billion dollars.
- Poverty has risen for the fifth straight year of Bush's presidency.
- Social Security and Medicare is facing a problem.
- Education is suffering (no child left behind).

Combine all this with the tax cuts, and we're half a trillion dollars in debt. We're borrowing from other country's every day just to keep our government afloat (I abhor this), and we're giving corporations of every kind (oil, tobacco, media, etc.) massive tax breaks at the same time.

I despise this system, I think its actually very dangerous for our stability and economy.

We won't be leaving Iraq any time soon.
The Katrina reconstruction will take at least a year if not more.
Who knows how much longer we'll be in Afghanistan.

Is it time to raise taxes?
NO URLS in signature
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:07 am

If Bush and his party were truly fiscally responsible, it would be, as we can't reasonbly pay for a protracted war, a war on terror, and the billions it will cost in the aftermath of Katrina.

But they're not fiscally resposible, and won't try to pay for everything-they'll slough it off to my kids and grandkids to deal with. And, in fairniess, the American people, conditioned as they have been to hate taxes, don't want to pay for it either.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
If Bush and his party were truly fiscally responsible, it would be, as we can't reasonbly pay for a protracted war, a war on terror, and the billions it will cost in the aftermath of Katrina.

But they're not fiscally resposible, and won't try to pay for everything-they'll slough it off to my kids and grandkids to deal with. And, in fairniess, the American people, conditioned as they have been to hate taxes, don't want to pay for it either.

It's not just Bush - it's the entire Congress that is fiscally irresponsible. Katrina aside, if Congress had the guts to act responsibly, they would stop parceling out the pork that we can't afford. But they won't, and we keep spending money on projects with dubious justifications.

If I thought that Congress would spend the increased revenue responsibly, I'd be happy to pay more taxes - especially if the increase was targeted at reducing the deficit. But they won't, which is why I'm against giving the federal government more revenue.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:16 am

You know what else is mind boggling about the Republican's handling of the budget? In the week after Katrina hit, they were pushing forward the issue of repealing of the estate tax, which to me is simply childish. As Barack Obama put it...

"We need some adult supervision of the budget process and we need to take responsibility for this process. This is something that we need from the president as well as our congressional leaders."
NO URLS in signature
 
texan
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
It's not just Bush - it's the entire Congress that is fiscally irresponsible.

Amen! Yes, it is time to raise taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but most people like the idea of possibly spiraling inflation even less. It will hurt a little, but will be a better boost to the economy than most measures currently or previously enacted by this and the previous Congress and the President.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6577
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Is it time to raise taxes?

No. Raising taxes is not going to do a damn thing. Raising taxes will only shrink wages, and increase tax liabilities for the middle income families.
Made from jets!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
Amen! Yes, it is time to raise taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but most people like the idea of possibly spiraling inflation even less. It will hurt a little, but will be a better boost to the economy than most measures currently or previously enacted by this and the previous Congress and the President.

Texan

Yes, but if we give Congress more money, and they continue to keep the pork pump primed, nothing will change.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:31 am

Halls and Jetjack,

Isn't it just as irresponsible though to lower taxes during time of war? In fact, lowering taxes while fighting two wars abroad?

We're running at a half a trillion dollar defecit now. I seriously doubt that is just the result of "pork" spending.

[Edited 2005-09-19 03:31:40]
NO URLS in signature
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:34 am

http://www.gold.org/
Gold's @ $459 and being bided @ $460/ounce. $500 before the end of the year? Any takers???
This space intentionally left blank
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
Halls and Jetjack,

Isn't it just as irresponsible though to lower taxes during time of war? In fact, lowering taxes while fighting two wars abroad?

We're running at a half a trillion dollar defecit now. I seriously doubt that is just the result of "pork" spending.

No, but pork is a big component, and illustrates just how fiscally irresponsible the Congress has become. As Senator McCain has noted:

“I would ask my colleagues whether they believe the following examples – just a select few from this conference report – constitute “emergency spending”:

• $2,000,000 to upgrade the chemistry laboratories at Drew University in New Jersey. According to its website, Drew University has a total enrollment of 2,600 students, operates with a $200,000,000 endowment, and draws more National Merit Scholars than many other top liberal arts colleges in the nation. A prestigious institution indeed, but I see no way in which funding for its chemistry labs is a critical national spending emergency.

• $500,000 for the Oral History of the Negotiated Settlement project at the University of Nevada-Reno.

• $2,000,000 to continue funding for the Southeast Regional Cooling, Heating and Power and Biofuel Application Center in Mississippi.

• $4,000,000 to pay off debt at the Fire Sciences Academy in Elko, Nevada.

• $2,000,000 for the National Center for Manufacturing Sciences in Michigan.

“Mr. President, we simply must start making some very tough decisions around here if we are serious about improving our fiscal future. Let’s be clear about what we are doing. The government is running a deficit because it is spending more than it takes in. So for each one of the earmarks in this bill, we are borrowing money – and saddling future generations of Americans with unnecessary debt. If we had no choice but to act in this way, this might be a understandable, temporary method of budgeting. But the fact is that we do have a choice.

“At a conference in February, 2005, David Walker, the Comptroller General of the United States, said this:

“If we continue on our present path, we’ll see pressure for deep spending cuts or dramatic tax increases. GAO’s long-term budget simulations paint a chilling picture. If we do nothing, by 2040 we may have to cut federal spending by more than half or raise federal taxes by more than two and a half times to balance the budget. Clearly, the status quo is both unsustainable and difficult choices are unavoidable. And the longer we wait, the more onerous our options will become and the less transition time we will have.”
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Raising taxes will only shrink wages, and increase tax liabilities for the middle income families.

And you think Bush and your party give a DAMN about "middle income families", JetJack? Not one iota. They only care if the rich and big business make out like bandits. That's what drives them.

If you believe what you wrote-and you do-you're bereft of reality.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
No. Raising taxes is not going to do a damn thing. Raising taxes will only shrink wages, and increase tax liabilities for the middle income families.

That's why the tax code needs to change and the top 10% and specifically the top 1% need to pay much more in taxes since they are taking much more from the money pot.

Raising taxes only on certain groups will do a damn thing, and it won't shrink wages and increase the middle class tax burden if the raising of taxes is not put on them like it usually is.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:46 am

Halls,

Let me give you some more intriguing numbers. These to me are much more important than pork spending.

1. The Pentagon is spending $5 billion dollars a month on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

2. The Pentagon is currently spending $3.9 billion a month in Iraq and just under $1 billion a month in Afghanistan for reconstruction.

3. The Congressional Budget Office estimated recently that the government next year would have a record deficit of $480 billion.

http://www.why-war.com/news/2003/09/07/costsofw.htm

I realize the article is old, but the numbers still hold today.

Now congress is saying to cover the costs of the Katrina disaster, they're going to cut funding from other programs. Now correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it the funding cuts to FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers which added to the disaster?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing.../2005-09-18-katrina-spending_x.htm

How can you fund two wars and the rebuilding of a major urban city, while having tax cuts for the wealthy at the same time? Even if you don't believe the tax cuts are for the wealthy, how can you support two wars and the Katrina recovery with any sort of tax cut?

The Republicans in congress say to pass another tax cut by repealing the estate tax. This is outrageous. Now their next solution is to further cut spending on federal programs. I can't take this anymore. I don't think this country can take it anymore, this is a very dangerous edge wear standing on.
NO URLS in signature
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
That's why the tax code needs to change and the top 10% and specifically the top 1% need to pay much more in taxes since they are taking much more from the money pot.

For once, I agree with B744F. You could siginficantly raise revnue in this nation, by closing the loopholes the rich always use, have them pay a higher percentage, and easing the burden on the "gasp" middle class.

Please-conservatives-spare me "don't punish the rich" bullshit. The gap between the richest and poorest is growing ,and the only ones truely benefitting from this "great" economy are the rich. Raising the percentage they pay by a few % won't effect in any way how to spend. They can't spend what they have right now as it is. They'd never miss a few more % points.

Yes, they earned it, and they're benefitting from this economy, the least they can do is give back to it at a higher rate than those who do an honest days work and struggle to make it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
The Republicans in congress say to pass another tax cut by repealing the estate tax. This is outrageous. Now their next solution is to further cut spending on federal programs. I can't take this anymore. I don't think this country can take it anymore, this is a very dangerous edge wear standing on.

And let's not forget it's always the Republicans who label Democrats 'tax and spend liberals' I would say pot-kettle-black: but somehow there is a bit more irony to the situation to me then that simple expression. I'd have to say scorched dirty AGED pot calling the brand new out of the shrinkwrap kettle black here.
This space intentionally left blank
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:53 am

very serious fiscal issue right here... By law, government shall not bankrupt the United States of America.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):

And let's not forget it's always the Republicans who label Democrats 'tax and spend liberals'

Maybe we should start calling the Republicans "the borrow and spend conservatives".
International Homo of Mystery
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
I realize the article is old, but the numbers still hold today.

I'm not questioning your numbers. But my numbers are a more important indicators of how irresponsible Congress has become. Congress spending money on an oral history project when we have a massive deficit is akin to you taking the family out for a weekend at the Four Seasons when you are about to be evicted from your home due to non-payment of the mortgage.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
The Republicans in congress say to pass another tax cut by repealing the estate tax. This is outrageous. Now their next solution is to further cut spending on federal programs. I can't take this anymore. I don't think this country can take it anymore, this is a very dangerous edge wear standing on

Do we need to cut back spending on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes. Can we do it immediately? No. But until Congress demonstrates the fiscal discipline needed by cutting pure pork, taxpayers like me won't believe that they can be trusted with more revenues.

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
Raising taxes only on certain groups will do a damn thing, and it won't shrink wages and increase the middle class tax burden if the raising of taxes is not put on them like it usually is.

The Random Word Generator strikes again.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:54 am

Read this article written by Fareed Zakaria. It takes five minutes, but I think it reflects my feelings on this situation perfectly.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9379241/
NO URLS in signature
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Maybe we should start calling the Republicans "the borrow and spend conservatives".

Well, since they have called the Democrats the "Tax and Spend Liberals" for years, I think it's time to turn the tables: call the GOP the "Tax cut and spend Conservatives".
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 17):
The Random Word Generator strikes again.

The "I will not address your comments because I haven't a clue how to respond" genius strikes again
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:58 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 17):

Do we need to cut back spending on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

That's not the issue. You can't cut spending there. Hell, our troops don't even have proper body armor, so I wouldn't approve of cutting spending there.

What the issue is is that the Republican's in power have extreme budget irresponsibility. How can we support major tax cuts at the time of two wars and the rebuilding of New Orleans? Just by cutting the estate tax, our government will lose $290 billion in revenue!! (source in the last link I posted) That's a lot of money, how can we afford to lose that kind of revenue? What is the motivation behind this?

Not only is this ridiculously irresponsible, I just don't trust them anymore.
NO URLS in signature
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 15):
very serious fiscal issue right here... By law, government shall not bankrupt the United States of America.

I can't believe I missed your post. Is this true? Where does it say this, the constitution? If this is true, its frightening.
NO URLS in signature
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
Is it time to raise taxes?

Time to cut spending, if we delay to the transportation & the medical prescription bill, that would net us about 60 Billion US dollars......

Cut the spending, cut the spending.....
NO URLS in signature
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:05 am

MidnightMike,

One correction, I believe the new transportation bill is around $231 billion dollars. Its got over 6,000 extra projects tagged onto it. Now there is some government irresponsibility. Its fucking ridiculous.
NO URLS in signature
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:07 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
Isn't it just as irresponsible though to lower taxes during time of war? In fact, lowering taxes while fighting two wars abroad?

It was the tax cuts that gave the economy a kick start, there was an economic slowdown, started in year 2000 & was accelerated after 9/11. Due to the tax cuts, it was one of the slowest economic downturns....

Cutting taxes is ok, if it is followed with spending cuts, our Congress has not been doing a good job cutting spending, which is why I dislike raising taxes so much.
NO URLS in signature
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:07 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 21):
That's not the issue. You can't cut spending there. Hell, our troops don't even have proper body armor, so I wouldn't approve of cutting spending there.

While we can't cut military spending in Iraq right now, we sure as hell can cut back elsewhere. Like why do we continue to maintain a large military presence in Japan? In South Korea? In Germany? We need to continue to close excess military bases in the US.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 21):
What the issue is is that the Republican's in power have extreme budget irresponsibility.

Perhaps if the democrats spent less time worrying about blocking presidential appointments and more time filibustering stupid republican budget decisions, I'd be willing to give them a pass. But they don't, because democrats are just as addicted to pork as the republicans.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 21):
Not only is this ridiculously irresponsible, I just don't trust them anymore.

I don't trust either party. Budget irresponsibility didn't pop up overnight.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
Now congress is saying to cover the costs of the Katrina disaster, they're going to cut funding from other programs. Now correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it the funding cuts to FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers which added to the disaster?

No, the spending cuts had nothing to do with Katrina. The floods would have still taken place, the leevys would have broke, about the only thing that could have been done differently, is human life & suffering had the Mayor & Governor had a plan & put that plan into action, suffering could have been reduced...
NO URLS in signature
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 24):
MidnightMike,

One correction, I believe the new transportation bill is around $231 billion dollars. Its got over 6,000 extra projects tagged onto it. Now there is some government irresponsibility. Its fucking ridiculous.

You're right! Well, there we go, delay the transportation bill, & we can cover the price tag for Katrina.
NO URLS in signature
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:14 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
Raising taxes only on certain groups will do a damn thing, and it won't shrink wages and increase the middle class tax burden if the raising of taxes is not put on them like it usually is.

Just what in hell are you trying to say?

What "certain groups" are you referring to? Are you suggesting that if we raise taxes on this unnamed "certain group" that the middle class will not be affected with an increased tax bill?

How much of a tax increase should we impose on this "certain group," and exactly how much additional increased revenue will this increase produce?

There. I think that qualifies as a substantive response. Your response?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:20 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
That's why the tax code needs to change and the top 10% and specifically the top 1% need to pay much more in taxes since they are taking much more from the money pot.


I have heard this before, & I never liked it. About the only thing that I have heard, that is fair to all, is a flat tax.

Keep it simple (Thank you Southwest)

Reduce the number of exemptions so that we can do our taxes on one piece of paper & wipe out or reduce the size of the IRS.
NO URLS in signature
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 24):
One correction, I believe the new transportation bill is around $231 billion dollars. Its got over 6,000 extra projects tagged onto it. Now there is some government irresponsibility. Its fucking ridiculous.

Just the kind of pork I was referring to.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 27):
No, the spending cuts had nothing to do with Katrina. The floods would have still taken place, the leevys would have broke, about the only thing that could have been done differently, is human life & suffering had the Mayor & Governor had a plan & put that plan into action, suffering could have been reduced...

Mike is correct. Flood control programs have been underfunded in Louisiana for at least the last 30 years. And let's not forget fraud, waste and abuse. As the AP has reported, "As far back as eight years ago, Congress ordered the Federal Emergency Management Agency to develop a plan for evacuating New Orleans during a massive hurricane, but the money instead went to studying the causeway bridge that spans the city's Lake Pontchartrain, officials say."

The LA Times is reporting "Senior officials in Louisiana's emergency planning agency already were awaiting trial over allegations stemming from a federal investigation into waste, mismanagement and missing funds when Hurricane Katrina struck. And federal auditors are still trying to track as much as $60 million in unaccounted for funds that were funneled to the state from the Federal Emergency Management Agency dating back to 1998."
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:22 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 30):
I have heard this before, & I never liked it. About the only thing that I have heard, that is fair to all, is a flat tax.

Sure. Someoene who makes $40 grand a year, is forced to pay exactly the same as someoene, say, making $65 million a year. And who makes out like a bandit in that one? The rich, of course.

It's time for the richest Americans to have to give back a little more for the killing they're making in this nation, a lot of times at the expense of the poor and middle class.

In the last 4 years, the gap between the rich and poor has grown at an incredible rate, and you want ME to pay the same as THEM? Forget it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
Like why do we continue to maintain a large military presence in Japan? In South Korea? In Germany? We need to continue to close excess military bases in the US.

I've asked this same question in a few other threads lately when the budget for Iraq and Afghanistan have come up, and no one's stepped up to the plate with an answer.

I wonder why?
International Homo of Mystery
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
Amen! Yes, it is time to raise taxes. It will hurt a little, but will be a better boost to the economy than most measures currently or previously enacted by this and the previous Congress and the President.


Name a time when higher taxes have ever led to a better economy please.

Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
That's why the tax code needs to change and the top 10% and specifically the top 1% need to pay much more in taxes since they are taking much more from the money pot.

Why should anyone have to pay more taxes? Why not have the government live with the money it receives? Sorta like the rest of us?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
How can you fund two wars and the rebuilding of a major urban city,

The wars yes, it's part of the Constitution that the federal government is responsible for the common defense. Rebuilding of a major urban city? Nope, not in the Constitution. If the fine citizens of New Orleans and LA want to rebuild it, let them pass bonds or vote for state taxes to do it. BTW, LA has no income tax due to it's oil revenues.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
LAS757300
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 2:04 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 34):
Name a time when higher taxes have ever led to a better economy please.

The economy did quite well after Clinton raised taxes in 1993.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 34):
BTW, LA has no income tax due to it's oil revenues.

WRONG
http://www.rev.state.la.us/sections/individual/default.asp
KMSP
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 34):
Why should anyone have to pay more taxes? Why not have the government live with the money it receives? Sorta like the rest of us?

I have serious issues with this. We pay the government with our hard earned money. They're role is to protect and improve the lives of its citizens. They have failed that. This is evidenced by 9/11, the War in Iraq, and the Katrina disaster. So if the government fails to properly use our tax dollars, should they be impeached? This isn't just "they messed up, they shouldn't get more money". Either find another source of revenue because our economy is broke now, or impeach the leaders who wasted our government's money.
NO URLS in signature
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:05 pm

What is the big deal with taxes? A government cannot run without it and people like to keep all the money they earn. I don't see the point of cutting and raising taxes every few years, why not let it (and state regulated wages) vary with inflation, keep it fluid? In who's version of reality will the economy die if this happens and are their opinions relevant?

edited for reo.

[Edited 2005-09-19 05:06:08]
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
It's time for the richest Americans to have to give back a little more for the killing they're making in this nation, a lot of times at the expense of the poor and middle class.

To steal from an overworked movie line, you had me until you got to the "killing" part.

If taxes need to be raised, then everyone needs to share the pain. Yes, the rich should suffer proportionally more, but to exempt the middle class (of which I'm part of) is nothing more than income redistribution from the rich to the less rich. And if that what you want to see done with a tax increase, then I'm not on board. The cost of government should be borne by all citizens - not just the wealthiest. What you are engaging in is a very subtle form of class warfare.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
Yes, the rich should suffer proportionally more, but to exempt the middle class (of which I'm part of) is nothing more than income redistribution from the rich to the less rich.

The gap between richest and poorest is increasing: THAT is nothing more than income redistribution, my friend. Time to even the score a little.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:27 pm

Quoting LAS757300 (Reply 35):
The economy did quite well after Clinton raised taxes in 1993.

It did even better after the budget was balanced in 1996.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
They're role is to protect and improve the lives of its citizens. They have failed that. This is evidenced by 9/11, the War in Iraq, and the Katrina disaster.

I disagree. The governments powers and limits are enumerated in the Constitution. Promote the general welfare yes, pay for it? Where does it say that? It does say provide for the common defense. I don't hold the government anymore resposible for 9/11 than I do Pearl Harbor, the USS Maine, or Fort Sumter. Part of any successful attack is surprise. We have not failed in Iraq since we have not declared defeat. BTW, how do you stop a hurricane?

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 37):
A government cannot run without it

This one ran just fine without personal income taxes until the 20th century.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
Yes, the rich should suffer proportionally more, but to exempt the middle class (of which I'm part of) is nothing more than income redistribution from the rich to the less rich.

The gap between richest and poorest is increasing: THAT is nothing more than income redistribution, my friend. Time to even the score a little.

Where in the Constitution does it guarantee that all citizens will enjoy a relatively equal income? Seems to me that if those on the bottom want to rise to the top, they should do it through their own efforts. Not through government-imposed income redistribution.

At least you aren't hiding your true interest in calling for increased taxes. Instead of reducing the deficit, you just want the government to take money from the rich and give it to you.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:56 pm

Falcon's right. A by-product of the richest "admirably earning" their millions is the fiancial hardship, job loss, and distress of the middle class and poor.

Because their actions reverberate profoundly among the other socioeconomic segments of our society, the richest bear a greater responsibility for its well being. Therefore, paying a higher tax rate should be a price of privilege, and one gladly shouldered, for this market society allowed the rich, or their ancestors, to become what they are.

If you're on the board, you'd best remember the thousands who work for the same company to which you're ostensibly loyal.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:03 pm

Quoting LHMark (Reply 42):
Falcon's right. A by-product of the richest "admirably earning" their millions is the fiancial hardship, job loss, and distress of the middle class and poor.

Speak for yourself. By any measure, I'm part of the middle class. I'm experiencing no distress resulting from my economic station in life, and even if I was, it is not because the fellow down the street is richer.

Instead of blaming others for an unenviable financial portfolio, why not get off your ass and improve your own?

Yes, a graduated income tax is necessary and proper. But if taxes are going to be raised, everyone should share in the experience - proportionally, of course.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Instead of blaming others for an unenviable financial portfolio, why not get off your ass and improve your own?

Actually, I'm doing pretty well right now.

But, as anyone who's worked in the corporate sector can attest, profit is king, and it's rarely attained via product improvement and innovation. It's usually achieved by modifying the organization itself.

The simple truth is, when these decisions are made to the benefit of tens, the effect affects the economic outcome for thousands. How can the top Echelon exist in a vacuum?

No one's saying that people are evil for being rich, but money has weight. A lot of weight. And when it's shifted, society is altered. Maybe it's a butterfly thing... All I can say is, were I a top-Echelon stockholder, there would be a moment of guilt to overcome each night at bedtime. That's probably why many turn to philanthropy.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:27 pm

Lots of different ideas on this. I'm personally not for increasing taxes. 45% of my income already goes to taxes and fees. I don't want anymore going. Taxes I pay: federal income 15%, state income 7%, local income 2%, school 1%, property $3000 a year, sales tax 6.5% on everything I buy , gas 0.55 cents a gallon, auto registration $75 a year. I'm sure there is a few more that I can't think of right now. You raise taxes then I have less money to spend on stuff.

The government needs to spend less across the board, it's unbelievable the amount of money that is wasted.

For those that want to raise taxes, I say why don't just just give more money to the government. That way the rest of us who don't want to see their hard earned money wasted can keep it.

I understand how people want to tax the rich more, which is easy to say when other people have more then you. I have a few problems with this as well. First of all I have never seen a poor person hire anyone, rich people create jobs, they have the money to start business's.

2nd. Where is the incentive to get rich? I want to be rich, but what's the point if all my money is going to be taken away in taxes.

3rd. The overwhelming majority of federal income taxes are paid by the very highest income earners. The top 1% of income earners pay about 32% of all income taxes. The top 5% pays 51.4%. The top 10% of high income earners, pay 63.5%. The top 20% of income earners pays 78% of all federal income taxes.
You shoul dbe happy that the rich lower the tax burden for the rest of us.
The voice of moderation
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:38 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):
And let's not forget it's always the Republicans who label Democrats 'tax and spend liberals'

At least there's tax to pay for the spending, as opposed to the current administration, who prefers to spend and leave where the money is going to come from to someone in the future. Ironic, since they claim to be so supportive of unborn children - how about not giving them a trillion dollar deficit to pay off?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
Like why do we continue to maintain a large military presence in Japan? In South Korea?

Agreed, but North Korea bears keeping an eye on. We have to maintain some sort of strong military presence in the area.

------

Here's something that would help - ban riders that have monetary implications. You want $100,000 to build a recreational center in Kansas? Fine, but write a bill and get it passed - don't attach that money to a bill to fund the war in Iraq. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Getting rid of the useless pork that comes out of Congress will be a big help. But even so, I think we're going to need a tax increase - we're fighting two wars which we have no way out of, and we have a major city to tear down and rebuild from the ground up, something we don't have any choice about doing either. And all at the same time. That's going to cost a lot of money, and unless we want to be paying off the bill for generations to come (I'd like to not have my great-grandchildren paying off my parents' tax cuts), it's time to start evening the gap between what the government spends and what it takes in. There is just no way around that. You can't spend money that isn't there and forget about it. Eventually, the balance sheet has to be balanced. Start now.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 45):
The government needs to spend less across the board, it's unbelievable the amount of money that is wasted.

Absolutely agree with you there. I don't want to get taxed more either. But the problem right now is, we're supposed to be making sacrifices for the war on terror and the war in Iraq right? (so the president tells us) We also have no choice but to rebuild New Orleans, which will cost a fortune. The two wars are costing billions each month. Our government is half a trillion in debt as a result of this. What do we do? We need new revenue.

Perhaps as a first step would be to repeal the tax cuts. Get rid of any plans to scrap the estate tax, that alone brings in tens of billions of dollars a year and only affects a very small percentage of the population.

I don't like seeing our government at the hands of international debtors. We're loaning money from country's when we should technically have enough money from taxes that we give our government to spend. There's a serious discrepency here.

If this were a private company or corporation, the CEO's and CFO's would be on trial for fraud and mismanagement. This is ridiculously out of hand and out of control.

Congress wasn't free of waste when Clinton was president either. At least though he had the balls to balance the budget though, and made us non reliant on foreign debtors.
NO URLS in signature
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 47):
If this were a private company or corporation, the CEO's and CFO's would be on trial for fraud and mismanagement. This is ridiculously out of hand and out of control.

It's always easier to spend other peoples money. There isn't someone overseeing the government.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 47):
Congress wasn't free of waste when Clinton was president either. At least though he had the balls to balance the budget though, and made us non reliant on foreign debtors.

That's because there was gridlock. Democrat President and Republican Congress and House. Nothing could get done, which is great.
The voice of moderation
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Is It Time To Raise Taxes?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:59 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
It's not just Bush - it's the entire Congress that is fiscally irresponsible. Katrina aside, if Congress had the guts to act responsibly, they would stop parceling out the pork that we can't afford. But they won't, and we keep spending money on projects with dubious justifications.

 checkmark  period.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
No, but pork is a big component, and illustrates just how fiscally irresponsible the Congress has become. As Senator McCain has noted:

You forgot the $300million for the Alaska Bridge to No Where . . . the one no one wants . . . but we got it anyway!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
You could siginficantly raise revnue in this nation, by closing the loopholes the rich always use, have them pay a higher percentage, and easing the burden on the "gasp" middle class.

 checkmark 

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 45):
The government needs to spend less across the board, it's unbelievable the amount of money that is wasted.

Absolutely agree . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A332DTW and 16 guests