bongo
Posts: 1783
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Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:24 am

According to www.harrisinteractive.com these are the top ten best cars for Europeans in terms of Quality perceptions:
1.Mercedes Benz
2.BMW
3.Audi
4.Volvo
5.Volkswagen
6.Lexus
7.Saab
8.Toyota

And these are the five worst:
1.Fiat
2.Hyundai
3.Skoda
4.Citroen
5.Rover

What do you think?
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Superfly
Posts: 37735
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Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:28 am

Here in the United States:

Best:
Lincoln
Mercury
Ford
Buick


Worse:
Kia
Deawoo
Hyunndai
Bring back the Concorde
 
RobertNL070
Posts: 4159
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:29 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Deawoo

Daewoo in Europe is now known as Chevrolet. I always thought Chevrolet was an OK sort of car.

Regards, Robert  bouncy 
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7175
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:34 am

My list would look like this:

Best
1. Mercedes Benz
2. Toyota/Lexus
3. BMW
4. VW/Audi
5. Volvo
6. Honda/Acura
7. Nissan/Infiniti
8. Daimler-Chrysler

Worst
1. GM (Chevy/Pontiac/Buick/GMC)
2. Ford
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:00 am

My list looks like this. Just my humble opinion only.

Best...
1. Ford
2. Lincoln
3. Mercury

Worst...
1. Everything else.

Regards.  Wink
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:40 am

Perception is dead-off. I've driven a Hyundai for two years now and in terms of quality, it's unmatched. A 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty? You don't give that as standard unless you're pretty sure owners won't have to cash in on that very frequently. I've had my "Check Engine Light" go on a total of once when an air sensor burned out. Took it to the dealership, it was replaced with no fuss. My old Chevrolet Corsica, on the other hand (which wasn't that old..roughly 6-7 years old when we got rid of it), had numerous electrical and engine problems.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Paul
Posts: 514
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:58 am

What are you all talking about!

Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well.

1. Aston Martin
2. Maserati
3. Ferrari
4. Porsche
5. Audi
6. BMW.
7. VW
8. Volvo

Now thats a realistic line up!

Paul
Veni, vidi, vici.
 
AR1300
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:22 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:17 am

Dude, you have issues.Mercedes are the best.It's a fact.Waht are you comparing?? you can't put a Ferrari in the same line as Marcedes.They don't compare.Use similar type of cars....  Yeah sure


Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:25 am

Mercedes are the best.

Based on what? Their poor reliability? Their cheap interior materals? Quite frankly, they are in no way better then Audi or BMW.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 5):
A 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty? You don't give that as standard unless you're pretty sure owners won't have to cash in on that very frequently.

You can also make the warranty so it takes a virtual act of god to stay under it for the whole 10 years/100,000mi term. If they get an oil change somewhere else in year 2 the manufacturer gets out of 8 years of liability. I have heard some horror stories about he KIA warranty.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MrChips
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:36 am

See the 2005 Vehicle Dependability Study from JD Power:

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005089.pdf

Take from this what you will, but it seems to point to some huge problems with reliability in German cars these days...especially those of the Volkswagen Auto Group.

And everyone who is trashing the Big Three (including myself), think again...they actually did quite well in this survey.

As for the Japanese, its a real scattered mix for them - some are fantastic (Lexus, Infiniti, Honda, Toyota), while others are not so hot (Suzuki, Nissan, Mitsubishi).
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:37 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Worse:
Kia
Deawoo
Hyunndai

Daewoos are no longer sold in the United States.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
AR1300
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:22 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:53 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 8):
Their poor reliability?

My father owned mercedes since I was 3.The first one he had it till 8 years ago, when he sold it and bought the actual one.Never had any trouble.BTW, I'm 22....

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 8):
cheap interior materals?

Uhhhh???I don't know watcha talkin' about.

Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
Kay
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:41 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 12):
Uhhhh???I don't know watcha talkin' about.

AR1300, climb into the cockpit of the your father's Mercedes at the back, check how the seats handle the weight of the persons on them, how the dashboard and everything seems to be carved in one huge block of wood, how you feel you are sitting in your living room, where furniture stays where it is because it heavy, sturdy, well-built and robust etc etc. At the same time, the design is always classical but appealing.

Now climb into the cockpit of the last E-class at the back. Notice how flimsy the seats seem in comparison (the regular seats), how normal the dashboard feels, actually just like any other car, how the dashboard is not nearly as well buit as the old ones, and rattles and squeaks already. Today, the new dashboard is your average car's dashboard. And from the inside, a Mercedes feels today like a normal car. It probably costs less than before to design and produce as well. It's good for immedieate business and balance sheets. It's bad for the image and long-term business. One of the most appealing aspects of a Mercedes is completely gone for me, unless I look inside the Maybach.

Mercedes lost focus. For example, they are now into blatant and visible high-performance, whereas before, all their super cars (the 450SEL 6.3, the 500E, etc) looked very discreet, and were among the discreet manager's favorites. Today they're into much more eye-catching designs. And somewhere in the mix, spending millions to make "underlying" quality that feeds the perception, went off the list.

Losing focus, in managerial terms, is a big mistake..

Kay
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:38 pm

I have driven pretty much every Mercedes and BMW out there, they belong to clients, and while I do enjoy the ride, they are not worth the money. They break down a lot and parts and maintence are ridiculous. Don't even get me started on VW. I used to own a 69 Beetle as well as an 80's Jetta. I used to love the price as well as the easy maintenance. Now, because every recent college graduate wants to buy a German car to appear like a Yuppie proffessional, they are overpriced and underengineered. For christs sake-a Jetta goes for something like $22gs!! Volkswagon means folkswagon, or people's wagon. Its supposed to be affordable. I would rather pay for inexpensive American or Jap engineering than overpriced German.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Arniepie
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:00 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:49 pm

From experience:
10 Best:

1°Subaru
2°Honda
3°Lexus/Toyota
4°Audi
5°Mitsubishi
6°Skoda (price/quality)
7°Volvo
8°Ford
9°Jeep
10°VW

5 Worst:
1°That Chinese SUV I guess
2°Fiat/Alfa
3°Mercedes(Price/quality)
4°Citroen
5°Peugoet
[edit post]
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:28 pm

Quoting Bongo (Thread starter):
these are the top ten best cars for Europeans in terms of Quality perceptions:

The key word here being PERCEPTION. Meaning that it is what they THINK is the best and worst quality whether or not they've ever sat in them.

Actually owneship surveys are a far better guide to what quality, reliability and so on. Ironically in the main UK ownership survey, the Skoda Octavia came in the Top 5 and the very worst car in the UK from an owners perspective was the Mercedes M-Class which had truly appalling quality and reliability issues - not helped by bad Mercedes dealers either.

Quoting Kay (Reply 13):

Agree 100% Kay - and MB have come under a lot of criticism for their build qulaity these days. The old late 80s E-Class were built to last for ever, and you still see loads of them around with huge mileages and in great conditions - the new one won't get close to achieving those sort of mileages.

Quoting Paul (Reply 6):
What are you all talking about!

Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well.

1. Aston Martin
2. Maserati
3. Ferrari
4. Porsche
5. Audi
6. BMW.
7. VW
8. Volvo

Now thats a realistic line up!

Err they're talking about quality - not favourite cars. With that in mind Maserati drops down the list somewhat and while I'll forgive the Aston DB9 anything for looking that gorgeous, apparently its had its share of reliability issues.....

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 8):
Mercedes are the best.

Based on what? Their poor reliability? Their cheap interior materals? Quite frankly, they are in no way better then Audi or BMW.

These days Audi's interior quality is a cut above Merceds that's for sure. I have a new shape A3, and i'm very surprised just how much better the interior is than my friends C-Class.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
atco2b
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:20 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting Paul (Reply 6):
Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well

I agree with the Mercedes comment. Would probably break down. However, Lexus are the luxury arm of Toyota, and are very reliable.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 15):
1°Subaru

Ohhhh yes Big grin
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:58 pm

Quoting Atco2b (Reply 17):
However, Lexus are the luxury arm of Toyota, and are very reliable.

Lexus tend to come top of pretty much every customer satisfaction survey - in the UK at least.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Kay
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:41 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:07 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 16):
while I'll forgive the Aston DB9 anything for looking that gorgeous, apparently its had its share of reliability issues

I hear what you're saying for the looks. A DB9 overtook me on a Czech highway once. The "what-the-f*ck" effect is intense.  Wow!  Wow! Up there with the best Ferraris if not better than some. Much more than seeing it parked. Regarding reliability, isn't it normal for a supercar?

Quoting Paul (Reply 6):
3. Ferrari
4. Porsche
5. Audi
6. BMW.
7. VW
8. Volvo

What exactly are you listing here? favorite logos? what has VW or a Volvo to do with Ferrari and Porsche..


Kay

[Edited 2005-09-21 12:10:19]
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting Kay (Reply 19):
A DB9 overtook me on a Czech highway once. The "what-the-f*ck" effect is intense. Up there with the best Ferraris if not better than some.

The CEO of the company that shares our office building parks his dark blue DB9 outside - absolutely gorgeous. and the new Baby Aston Vantage just launched is a stunner too.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting Atco2b (Reply 17):
Quoting Paul (Reply 6):
Best cars- Mercedes Benz, are you mad. They are made out of plastic, there shite. Lexus are crap as well

I agree with the Mercedes comment. Would probably break down. However, Lexus are the luxury arm of Toyota, and are very reliable.

Lexus are indeed reliable - and boring. I have an Acura TL, which is an excellent car. Every time I pass a Lexus ES300 - with its no MT option and it's Lincoln-like pillow ride - I smile and thank the Honda engineers for creating a car that is kick in the ass to drive and an incredible value. It is as good as the BMW 5 series? No, but at $10,000 less, I'll gladly take the Acura.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:37 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Best:
Lincoln
Mercury
Ford
Buick

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

I like you Larry, but come on man

Quoting Kay (Reply 13):
450SEL 6.3

Actually, it was a 6.9
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8549
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:00 pm

>> Lexus are indeed reliable - and boring. I have an Acura TL, which is an excellent car.

The TL does, indeed, rock.

>> Every time I pass a Lexus ES300 - with its no MT option and it's Lincoln-like pillow ride - I smile and thank the Honda engineers for creating a car that is kick in the ass to drive and an incredible value.

The Lexus ES and the Acura TL are aimed at different market audiences. There are tons of people, albiet 50+ most likely, who want nothing more than the pillow ride you speak of. Hard for us young wipper-snappers to understand sometime, but a more accurate TL competitor would be the Lexus IS or maybe (less so) the GS platform.

>> According to www.harrisinteractive.com these are the top ten best cars for Europeans in terms of Quality perceptions:
1.Mercedes Benz
2.BMW
3.Audi
4.Volvo
5.Volkswagen
6.Lexus
7.Saab
8.Toyota


Ironic... because stateside, number 2 is average, 6/8 are at the top, and the rest are in the pits. Fine cars all of them, but Audi/VW especially have been suffering major quality control issues in the 2001-2005 model years. I wouldn't touch anything with the 1.8T engine with a stick.

>> I like you Larry, but come on man

His name is Larry, what more needs to be said  Wink

[Edited 2005-09-23 06:01:30]
 
Kay
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:41 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Actually, it was a 6.9

urm, unbeleivable maybe, but I meant this one:




You're right in that this one was not a 450, but a 300, otherwise SEL 6.3. Weird, but the 6.9 was its successor, and was slower. I can't put my hand on figures, but I seem to remember I read (maybe wrong?) that the 6.9 is not quite so fast as the 6.3.
Finally... to make things more complicated... some 6.9s were equipped with a 6.3 engine. example..


Kay

[Edited 2005-09-23 07:26:06]
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1544
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 10):

Thanks for that link! I find it very interesting that Mercedes-Benz is much farther down the list than their state-side step child Chrylser. If you asked anyone in the US who makes a more quality automobile, Mercedes would win hands down (sad that our perceptions can be so wrong). I guess we should worry about all of the new Chrysler automobiles that are using more and more of the Mercedes Benz parts bin.

As for me, I have an Acura. It just hit 20k miles and while I know it's young, it has been PERFECT. Two oil changes so far (paid for by my dealer) and two tire rotations. Those Honda engineers kick butt!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:23 am

Best cars in America:

Anything that wasn't designed in America.  Wink

I'm not non-patriotic, I just know our cars are crap! I've had a GM, a Ford, and Toyota...the Toyota was the cheapest, looked the best, and had the least problems.
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:12 am

Here's my list:

1. BMW
2. Porsche
3. Audi
4. Lexus/ Toyota
5. Mercedes-Benz
6. Acura/ Honda
7. Volkswagen
8. Volvo
9. Land Rover
10. Chrysler (esp. their newest models; 300C, etc)

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 23):
Audi/VW especially have been suffering major quality control issues in the 2001-2005 model years. I wouldn't touch anything with the 1.8T engine with a stick.

Yeah, my sister had a Passat with that engine.... horrible. Now she has a Volvo S60 R, which is much improved.

I have an Audi A4 3.0, it has been *knock on wood* excellent. The car has had no mechanical problems except a couple of burned out lightbulbs. Its really a fantastic, machine! I looove it  Smile

-AA777
 
TUNisia
Posts: 1515
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:24 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:15 am

My list:

1) Volvo

no others compare  Wink
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
acho
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:06 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:37 pm

1)Renault:I drive a Megane II Hatchback and love it. It has a good price ($19,000 usd), but has safety and performance features that in the past only came with a $30,000 usd car (6 airbags, EBD, etc). The car has excellent performance, the downside is that it does have in luxury interior wise.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 11):
Daewoos are no longer sold in the United States.

Yes they are, just not at Daewoo dealers. You can buy them at Suzuki and Chevrolet dealers - the Chevrolet Aveo, Suzuki Reno, Suzuki Forenza, and Suzuki Verona are all built by Daewoo, as are the Canadian-market Chevrolet Optra, Chevrolet Epica, Pontiac Wave, and Suzuki Swift+.
a.
 
vivek0072
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Top Eight Best/Worst Cars

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
You can buy them at Suzuki and Chevrolet dealers

Daewoo was taken over by GM how come they are sold as Suzuki models ?
That life's most failures were people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up. - Edison.

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