mia
Posts: 813
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Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:34 am

I have always been curious about why is it that our society is so against suicide or euthanasia?

It doesnt make sense to me why someone shouldnt be able to take his/her life if he/she so desires. Why is this such a tabboo subject that only satanists openly encourage suicide?

I know I could never do it, I am too much of a bitch to go through with anything serious.

Discuss...
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:44 am

There is a vast difference between suicide and euthanasia...i'm not sure if you're using 'suicide' in the case of the very ill or what. If not, why on earth would anyone encourage suicide?

Quoting MIA (Thread starter):
It doesnt make sense to me why someone shouldnt be able to take his/her life if he/she so desires.

What are they going to do, put you in jail for it? That statement doesn't make much sense.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:00 pm

Once I have spent a few years with my grand kids, and everything is paid for I think I'll get my affairs in order and call Dr. Jack.
This space intentionally left blank
 
redngold
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting MIA (Thread starter):

It doesnt make sense to me why someone shouldnt be able to take his/her life if he/she so desires.

Seems to me that suicide is generally a selfish act, and the murder of one's self.

Quoting MIA (Thread starter):
Why is this such a tabboo subject that only satanists openly encourage suicide?

Satanists aren't the only ones.
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AR1300
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting Redngold (Reply 3):
Seems to me that suicide is generally a selfish act, and the murder of one's self.

No shit, Sherlock.

Mike
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
Bobster2
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting MIA (Thread starter):
It doesnt make sense to me why someone shouldnt be able to take his/her life if he/she so desires.

Maybe it used to make sense, but today you take a pill if feel you bad and you don't feel bad anymore. Why not take a pill instead of killing yourself?
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Society And Suicide

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:27 pm

Euthanasia is legal (for the time being) in Oregon, and I don't see any problem with it.

I don't always agree that suicide is a selfish act. A friend who used to man a suicide hotline would ask a caller, "Who do you want to find your body?", and it made the caller stop and think about what or whom it was they were killing themselves over, and they usually saw how pointless it was, and that the person probably wouldn't even appreciate the gesture.
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mia
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 5):
Why not take a pill instead of killing yourself?

Dude, do you know that when you take those pills, when you are detoxing from it your mood goes to the deepest of lows?

I take adderall and I know when its getting out of my system because everything just slows down around me.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 1):
What are they going to do, put you in jail for it?

Actually, yes. Suicide is a crime and if you attempt and fail you are jailed for I think 6 months. And you have to under psychotherapy and analysis for 48 hours every month or something like that, I'm not 100% sure on the laws as they do vary.

Suicide is a complicated thing. Is can result from many many factors such as depression, chronic illness or constant pain the desire to get rid of that, or just plain confusion and hopelessness to an extreme. Those that commit suicide are those with little family and friend support around them who believe there is no way out of the suffering they have. If everyone had the correct guidance and support of those around them, the levels would decrease severely. There is also a reason suicide is the number two cause of teenage death in North America. (after car accidents). These are teenagers who have problems either at school, at home, or in their lives as a whole. Teens that lose parents, or are scared of college, or do not want to lose the lives they have (all of which are normal things) sometimes have nobody around them to help them deal with what they are going through. In this case, they feel that they have to deal with everything on their own and most young people cannot do so.

In addition, statistically, suicide attempts are becoming less and less common because of all the new medications and medical experts available for help, and also because of the increased awareness. The scary statistic is that the percentage of successful attemps is rising very rapidly for several reasons, most of which should be self-explanatory. Everyone, in their lives, has thought of suicide. Not necessarily thoughts of committing it, but thoughts of what it would or wouldn't accomplish. These are all normal thoughts, as life is simply a series of ups and downs.

What we must remember is that we, as people, never lose out value to ourselves and those around us, no matter how badly we are hurt or scarred. I mean, if I offered you a crisp, new 100 dollar bill you'd jump at the chance. If i stepped on it and dirtied it and made it look terrible, you would still take it. We need to treat out fellow people the same way. If someone in very bad shape comes to you for friendship or suppot, don't shun them, as they may become a very valuable part of your life.

I have several friends who have had many problems in their life, and one who has actually gone as far as take a very high dose of sleeping pills hoping it would, as she says it, "Take her pain away via a very long nap." Through my friendship with her her outlook on life has changed, not because I am such a great person, which I'm probably not, but because I gave her my friendship when she needed it most and I've promised to stick by her. People need people, and when they don't have others around them, it can get lonely and depressing and sometimes make them hopeless. This is a sad part of life, but one we must all live with. But we have to do our best to prevent what we can and make the lives of those around us just a little bit better.

TIS

Sorry for the long rant.
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B744F
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 3):
Seems to me that suicide is generally a selfish act

No, what's selfish is people who want said person around even though they are suffering
 
eilennaei
Posts: 1003
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):
Actually, yes. Suicide is a crime and if you attempt and fail you are jailed for I think 6 months. And you have to under psychotherapy and analysis for 48 hours every month or something like that, I'm not 100% sure on the laws as they do vary.

What on Earth? Where is that?

[Edited 2005-09-22 22:27:33]
 
B744F
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:32 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 10):
What on Earth? Where is that?

Sounds like many state laws in the US
 
redngold
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 9):

No, what's selfish is people who want said person around even though they are suffering

I don't want to sound cold here, but suffering is part of human existence. We can do things to lessen pain and suffering. (This is why I favor medical marijuana.)

Suicide is a final solution to a temporary problem. I'm speaking somewhat from experience, because I was plagued with severe depression, chronic pain, and thoughts about death for nearly twenty years. There were times when I wished that I would die, and times that I thought I was about to die, but I never gave up hope that I would survive in some way. Once I sought and received appropriate treatment, things got better.


redngold
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erikwilliam
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting MIA (Thread starter):
It doesnt make sense to me why someone shouldnt be able to take his/her life if he/she so desires.

it´s more a matter of mind sickness than desire.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 3):
Seems to me that suicide is generally a selfish act, and the murder of one's self.

way more complicated to say it´s a selfish act.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 5):
Why not take a pill instead of killing yourself?

because the side efect is you fell orse then it was at first.then comes the addiction.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 12):
I don't want to sound cold here, but suffering is part of human existence.

suffering is one thing, vegetating on a bed for years is different

Quoting Redngold (Reply 12):
(This is why I favor medical marijuana.)

Indeed it can help A LOT(no sarcasm)

Quoting Redngold (Reply 12):
Once I sought and received appropriate treatment, things got better.

happy for you, hope things stay as good as possible.

BTW, suicide is often caused by depression, and depression isn´t yet explained/diagnosed/treated by modern medicine.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
B744F
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 12):
Once I sought and received appropriate treatment, things got better.

But we are talking about old and dying men and women who want to end their suffering, not your typical depressed child.
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2733
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:08 am

I think anyone who wants to should be alowd to commit suicide. Only the individual can decide weather their life is worth living!
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):
Actually, yes. Suicide is a crime and if you attempt and fail you are jailed for I think 6 months.



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):
Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 1):
What are they going to do, put you in jail for it?

Actually, yes. Suicide is a crime and if you attempt and fail you are jailed for I think 6 months.

Wrong, atleast here. I believe only 2 states have suicide on the books as a crime. In the UK, it was taken off the books in the 60's. Not sure about other places, but I highly doubt the ridiculous notion of a jail sentence for attempted suicide!
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
eilennaei
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 8):
Actually, yes. Suicide is a crime and if you attempt and fail you are jailed for I think 6 months. And you have to under psychotherapy and analysis for 48 hours every month or something like that, I'm not 100% sure on the laws as they do vary.



Quoting B744F (Reply 11):
Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 10):
What on Earth? Where is that?

Sounds like many state laws in the US

"In the U.S. suicide has never been treated as a crime nor punished by property forfeiture or ignominious burial. (Some states listed it on the books as a felony but imposed no penalty.) Curiously, as of 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime--North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma. Of course they didn't take matters as seriously as the Roman emperor Hadrian, who in 117 AD declared attempted suicide by soldiers a form of desertion and made it--no joke this time--a capital offense. "

(http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040326.html)

It would strongly seem the attempt has been long decriminalized as well, but I found no official dates.

"No U.S. state now considers suicide a crime."
MS Encarta, 2000

"Philosophers have contemplated the concept of a good death since ancient times. However, individual choice over dying only surfaced in intense public debate in the 1970s.
Until then, anyone found guilty of attempted suicide in Canada – and in many other countries – could face jail time. The federal government decriminalized suicide and attempted suicide in 1972. "
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/assistedsuicide/

Ireland dropped the crime definition completely in 1993
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....m/~irishancestors/Law/Suicide.html

Mythbashing:
http://www.texansforgunsafety.org/suicide/myth.htm

Some stuff with references (wow):
http://ashbusstop.org/law_history.html
http://www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/136/4/302.pdf
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:04 am

Thanks for correcting me everyone. I guess, even though I'm 18 years old, I'm stuck in the 60's! That's thanks to my parents for being 60 years old, haha!

TIS
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redngold
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 13):
depression isn´t yet explained/diagnosed/treated by modern medicine.

Erik - how can you possibly say that?

Nearly every day, some researcher publishes a report about the biochemical changes that are evident in people suffering from depression and anxiety disorders alone; we're also making progress in finding the causes of schizophrenic and dissociative disorders. The neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine are believed to play a major part in how people experience these disorders.

There are well-established criteria for diagnosis available in the Diagnosis and Statistical Manual IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. Diagnosis becomes more difficult when patients either cannot or will not articulate their feelings or the depth of their disturbance. You can't expect any doctor to be a mind-reader, not even a psychiatrist. In addition, some disorders are more difficult to diagnose than others, because of the likelyhood of "concomittance" - that is, two or more disorders hand in hand. For example, a person with severe Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder may become depressed because of the distress caused by OCD symptoms.

Researchers have made huge strides in finding and refining drug therapies for the last thirty years! I can come up with more than five of the newest class (SSRI) right off the top of my head (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Lexapro.) Individual counseling and group therapy are widely accepted as helpful in recognizing and treating mild depression without need for medication.

I can only hope you'll read up on the facts.
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Bobster2
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Dude, do you know that when you take those pills, when you are detoxing from it your mood goes to the deepest of lows?



Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 13):
because the side efect is you fell orse then it was at first.then comes the addiction.

I'm not a doctor. Just trying to give some friendly advice. I didn't refer specifically to any one pill because there are lots of choices and different people need different things.

Maybe you need more than one pill. If you take amphetamines (Adderall is amphetamine) to improve your mood or help you concentrate, you might need an anti-depressant to keep you going at night when the amphetamines are not working.

Addiction? Some people need treatment for the rest of their lives. I don't call that addiction. I call it therapy. If you need the drugs, use them. Keep using them forever if you need them. Why stop if you can't live without them?

You need a doctor who lets you experiment to find out what works best for you. And you need self discipline to use the drugs for therapy and don't ever think you can screw around with them for recreation.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 20):

Addiction? Some people need treatment for the rest of their lives. I don't call that addiction. I call it therapy. If you need the drugs, use them. Keep using them forever if you need them. Why stop if you can't live without them?

You need a doctor who lets you experiment to find out what works best for you. And you need self discipline to use the drugs for therapy and don't ever think you can screw around with them for recreation.

Amen, brother! I resisted drug therapy for a very long time and thought that it would depersonalize me if I tried. I finally came to a point where I realized that I wouldn't ever get better if I didn't try something different (after all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.) Later, I realized that I might have to take medication for the rest of my life. You know what? I can live with that. I can live with that, because people have seen a change, and I've felt a change, and it's a positive, constructive change that I've made with careful thought and supervision.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 20):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):Dude, do you know that when you take those pills, when you are detoxing from it your mood goes to the deepest of lows?

::blink:: Did I say that?
International Homo of Mystery
 
eilennaei
Posts: 1003
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RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:35 pm

A very useful pharmacological resource to the many families of antidepressants can be found here:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/fluox.htm

The root of the site is also a worthwhile read.
When discussing medical products, it's good thing to recall that very similar drugs can be offered by many companies -- companies will patent the molecule itself, but will not be able to do the same to the molecular mode of action in the body.
Internationally, a company may market the same product under different names. There's never was any Prozac in Finland but something by the name of Fontex, and currently there's no fluoxetine product by Eli Lilly at all: the patent of the molecule is now expired and the various 'generic' products have realigned the market.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Society And Suicide

Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:04 pm

I always sort of thought if it was time to check out I would rather do it on my own terms..

I have never been one to worry about what society thinks about something.. If I feel the act is justified I would do it regardless of the social norms.

I don't even worry about how religion interprets the act. I haven't seen anything to conclusively prove organized religion is accurate on anything.


Note: I am not planning on offing myself.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Society And Suicide

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 19):
I can only hope you'll read up on the facts.

I do babes, trust me.
What I meant was, there´s no explanation that can be 100% sure.
Not like broken bones, where they know what caused the brakage and they know how to treat it.
Too many explanations, some good, some bad, but there isn´t one 100% plausible.
That´s all.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 20):

I didn´t try to offend you or anything, just saying one of the problems of taking pills for depression. Hope we´r all good now  bigthumbsup 
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo

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