Blackbird1331
Topic Author
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Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:03 am

Considering the current hurricane season and the chance that they might be the result of global warming, and considering the effects they will have on long term gasoline production; what would you voluntarily do to conserve energy.

Myself? I am going to try to use my vehicle just three days a week.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Brick
Posts: 1486
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:23 am

Yeah, you do that...
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:35 am

I cut my energy consumption at home 25% two winters ago by keeping my rooms at a constant temperature all day and night (instead of heating up cold walls at night), and buying an electric blanket.

Now that it's getting into the 40's here at night again, I'm planning on doing the same this fall/winter.
International Homo of Mystery
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:15 am

Considering if the Sun even farts in our direction our planet will become a giant, lifeless, black chunk of rock we mind as well take full advantage of the planet while it can still maintain life.



Astronomers are proposing that a supernova exploded within 10,000 light years of the Earth, destroying the chemistry of the atmosphere and allowing the sun's ultraviolet rays to cook fragile, unprotected life forms.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/01/08/earth.extinction.ap/

My advice to you...

"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
flymia
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting NUair (Reply 3):
Considering if the Sun even farts in our direction our planet will become a giant, lifeless, black chunk of rock we mind as well take full advantage of the planet while it can still maintain life.

EXACTLY!

And the earth goes through patterns of climate changes, Hurricanes are going up in strenght and quanity, I think this was predicted to happen as it is just a cycle.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Blackbird1331
Topic Author
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:52 am

Okay, fuck it. To hell with it all, I'll fill my tank and run the engine and just let it sit in the driveway. When it runs out of gas I will fill the tank and repeat I really wonder why some of you guys bother to fly the American flag.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:58 am

When I moved into my current apartment earlier this year, I switched all my lights from hot incandescent bulbs to the new energy efficient compact flourescants. I installed an easy to use two setting thermostat so, while I'm at work, the temperature rises during the long torrid Maryland summers (which is going right into so called autumn). Conversely, in the winter, the temperature drops to a lower setting.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:01 am

I will try to reduce my driving, especially on weekends, consolidating shopping and personal driving. Shave off 22 miles a week = 1 gallon. I already take mass transit from my home in NJ to NY City where I work so not much can change there. I have no control over my apartment heat, but expect to wear fleece a lot more this year especially on the potentially coldest days.
I also will consider a more fuel efficient, smaller car with better mileage when I replace my current car hopefully early next year.
I will also help my parents try to reduce energy costs, improving where air leaks, like at windows, doors, adding some leftover insulation in certain weak spots in the house's walls and so on.
 
Airlinerfreak
Posts: 1246
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:06 am

Ok, well while all of you may think Global Warming is some serious matter, I struggle to believe that is indeed true. I am taking a class this year called AP Environmental Science, how fitting isn't it, and also I read a book called State of Fear by Michael Chrichton. Anything above the Natural Global Warming process is just the opinions of one, and we have proved that opinion to be false. While some glaciers are melting, there are others rising, at rates we have never seen before. While the temperature is rising in some cities, it is remaing the same or dropping in other. You can believe whatever you wish to believe, but the fact is, This Theory on how Global Warming is creating massive temperature increases and what not is false.

Though the temperatures are increasing in some cities, it is not by a large margin, maybe a 10th of a degree....is this enough to be scared or even worried about? Also, studies show that the more populated, industrial cities, are increasing in temperature, while the smaller, more remote, less populated cities are remaining the same or decreasing....so are we saying that Global Warming is only happening in some places but not all? That can not be.

Also what you are seeing in these Hurricanes is just a simple cycle that Earth goes through, has nothing to do with Global Warming. Also, just a fact for all of you, the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has only grown by .002% I believe since the year of 1950, do not quote me on this as I do not have my facts in front of me, they are at school right now. But the increase has been so minimal.....

It is just the debate right now between Environmentalists and Ecologists I guess you would say. The thing that Environmentalists are doing though, is creating that State of Fear, making people afraid, exaggerating, to get people afraid, worried, and more conscious, when really, the problems we are having right now, are minimal, and not enough to even worry about.

Also, the amount of energy on Earth can not be used up, there will always be the same amount of Energy on earth, so why are we worrying?

Finally I am not telling you to go leave you cars running outside non stop, nor telling you to leave your lights on 24/7, but I am telling you this, all these people are trying to do, are put us in a State of Fear, don't let them.
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:09 am

Now you've done it. You've made me pull out the CHARTS!

http://members.cox.net/s_hasse/Hurricanes.gif

This hurricane season (Along with the recent seasons) is neither exceptional nor unprecedented.

As shown by the chart, total storms are up. No surprise. Reporting of tropical depressions in the source used to accumulate the data started only in 2002.

Tropical storms are also up, also no surprise, as both identification and reporting are substantially improved in the past several decades. But they are not colossally up.

The 5-year moving average for total hurricanes did peak at an unprecedented high in the late Clinton administration, but has since declined to a value below another historical high and roughly the same as three others.

The moving average for Cat 2+ storms never hit a historical high in the last several decades and has declined in recent years to a value below two historical peaks and near three others.

The moving average for Cat 3+ storms is in the higher end of its "trading range," but has never exceeded its historical high.

The moving average for Cat 4+ storms is above the plateau that represents the historical high by about 1/2 or 1 storm per year.

The moving average for Cat 5+ storms is still well within historical precedent; Indeed, quite close to historical averages.

Total storms this season and history matching or beating that number:

Reported storms: 18
Compare to 1933 (21), 1969 (18), 1995 (19), 2003 (21).

Tropical storms: 17
Compare to 1887 (17), 1933 (21), 1969 (18), 1995 (19).

Hurricanes: 9
Compare to 1887 (10), 1893 (10), 1916 (11), 1933 (10), 1950 (11), 1955 (9), 1969 (12), 1980 (9), 1995 (11), 1996 (9), 1998 (10).

Cat 2+: 6
Compare to 1886 (8), 1887 (10), 1891 (8), 1893 (10), 1896 (6), 1903 (8), 1906 (6), 1916 (10), 1926 (8), 1933 (8), 1949 (6), 1950 (10), 1951 (6), 1955 (8), 1961 (7), 1964 (6), 1969 (7), 1995 (7), 1996 (6), 1998 (7), 1999 (8), 2004 (7).

Cat 3+: 5
Compare to 1916 (6), 1926 (6), 1933 (5), 1950 (8), 1951 (5), 1955 (6), 1958 (5), 1961 (7), 1964 (6), 1969 (5), 1995 (5), 1996 (6), 1999 (5), 2004 (6).

Cat 4+: 4
Compare to 1961 (4), 1999 (5), 2004 (4).

Cat 5+: 2
Compare to 1960 (2), 1961 (2).

Stronger individual storms? Nope. The two strongest storms this season have had peak sustained winds of 175 mph. This number has been bested by Hurricanes Dog (1950, 185 mph), Camille (1969, 190 mph), Allen (1980, 190 mph), and Gilbert (1988, 185 mph).

Then keep in mind that meterological measurements and observations have been constantly improving with gross underreporting, especially at the top and bottom of the scale, until recently and there's clearly little unprecedented here.

Those are the facts, use them or not. Carry on.
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
Though the temperatures are increasing in some cities, it is not by a large margin, maybe a 10th of a degree....is this enough to be scared or even worried about? Also, studies show that the more populated, industrial cities, are increasing in temperature, while the smaller, more remote, less populated cities are remaining the same or decreasing....so are we saying that Global Warming is only happening in some places but not all? That can not be.

Do some reading on the "Urban heat island effect."
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:39 pm

I hardly use our family vehicle. Moreover, my father and me installed a solar power plant on our roof top, supported with a Government Loan, which produces clean energy, that is bought by the state 4 x the market price.

And.. we limit our energy consumption (gas), have good insulation etc..  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:15 pm

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 5):
Okay, fuck it. To hell with it all, I'll fill my tank and run the engine and just let it sit in the driveway.

We have that in our house and call it an Air Conditioner, unfortunately it costs a lot more to run and does even more damage to the environment.

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 5):
When it runs out of gas I will fill the tank and repeat I really wonder why some of you guys bother to fly the American flag.

Because we love our SUV's damn it!

You can sit on a-net and brag until the sun goes down about how you are doing so many great things to save the environment and stop global warming but in reality, that glass of milk you drank and the burger you ate came from a cow with 5 stomachs that is shooting out more methane and other green house gases per year than 1475 SUV's combined.

Despite this difference in relative quantities, each gas has different abilities to reflect and trap heat. Methane is capable of trapping 25 times more heat than CO2, and is expected to cause between 15 and 17% of the global warming over the next 50 years

It has been estimated that 9 to 12% of the energy that a cow consumes is turned to methane that is released either through flatulence or burping (Radford, 2001). A huge number of factors affect methane emission, including diet, barn conditions and whether the cow is lactating, but an average cow in a barn produce 542 liters of methane a day, and 600 liters when out in a field (Adam, 2000).


Now a huge Lincoln Navigator driven over a 20 year period at current average miles per year will produce trace amounts of methane but it will produce lots of CO2, over 100 tons or .013699 tons per day.

Now converting that to liters you come out with about 9.2561 liters of CO2 per day. So you would need to take 59 full size SUV's off of the road to make the same impact as you would if you killed one cow and if CO2 and Methane had the same impact on global warming, which they don't. If you want to put Methane and CO2 on the same level you would have to take out 1475 Lincoln Navigators to have the same impact as killing one cow.

According to the US-USDA we have over 107 million heads of cattle in the US compared to Highway department reported 87 million heavy and light trucks and SUV's.

If you want to stop global warming stop stressing over SUV's and become a Vegan.

Good luck with that!


Blaming SUV's for rising gas prices and deadly accidents caused by short Asian women is one thing but blaming them for global warming is nothing short of crazy.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting NUair (Reply 12):
If you want to stop global warming stop stressing over SUV's and become a Vegan.

Bullshit - appreciate that Blackbird thinks about a crucial questio! Every small step is a progress - no need to radicalize! and many small steps are even a bigger progress. The entire philosophy is to combind development and environment into sustainable development.

It won't take long until the industry sees the market for environmental technology and engages in research in that field! There will be a huge demand for such technology - they save costs (and resources). If this does not happen, it won't take long until murderer and environmental pollution are on the same level..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 13):
Bullshit - appreciate that Blackbird thinks about a crucial questio! Every small step is a progress

You can get as pissed off at me as you want but I fail to see how Blackbird freaking out at SUV drivers is helping anyone which was the point of my last post. I didn't say anything about not taking steps to stop global warming and I even advocate the erradication of cows.  Smile

Yeah I know your from India and love your cows but each one of those guys is producing the same amount of greenhouse gasses as 1475 SUV's. Agriculture is said to produce anywhere from 40-60% of our greenhouse gasses and a big chunk of the rest is coal burning and natural gas flaring (both used for electricity production).

Are you taking the right step in switching to Solar? Yeah. But I'm not sure what Blackbird is doing aside from getting pissed off at SUV drivers.

A vegan is doing much more to save the ozone than someone who switches from an SUV to a car.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Thread starter):
Considering the current hurricane season and the chance that they might be the result of global warming, and considering the effects they will have on long term gasoline production; what would you voluntarily do to conserve energy.

Myself? I am going to try to use my vehicle just three days a week.

Have fun with than and remember that a major Volcano eruption in North America would do more damage in the form of Global Warming than the last 20 years of all US vehicle operations has done.

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 6):
I switched all my lights from hot incandescent bulbs to the new energy efficient compact flourescants

If you start seeing spots, you'll know why then. Many people have vision impairment due to fluorescent light use. About 1 in 1,000. I'f I'm around them for say 3-4 hours, I begin getting blind areas in my field of vision. Makes me want to go buy an ass load of them... Not.

[Edited 2005-09-23 16:10:01]
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting NUair (Reply 14):
You can get as pissed off at me as you want but I fail to see how Blackbird freaking out at SUV drivers is helping anyone which was the point of my last post. I didn't say anything about not taking steps to stop global warming and I even advocate the erradication of cows.

OK, both of us cool down.. I was more general in my comment, you stayed to the quote... now you explain the cow issue a little  Wink

Quoting NUair (Reply 14):
Yeah I know your from India and love your cows

Nops.. many Indians are different.. and I have my own viewpoint of things and condemn the contamination of the Indian habitat as it happens at present
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
This Theory on how Global Warming is creating massive temperature increases and what not is false.

Who is saying that global warming will create massive temperature increases? You sound as though you have absolutely no clue about what you're arguing against. Global warming is expected to result in relatively minor increases in temperature in some areas that could have a knock-on effect in yet additional areas. Some of these effects could be substantial and some could be catastrophic in the future, possibly beyond our lifetime, but presumably soon enough to be felt by our children or grandchildren.

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
Also, studies show that the more populated, industrial cities, are increasing in temperature, while the smaller, more remote, less populated cities are remaining the same or decreasing....so are we saying that Global Warming is only happening in some places but not all? That can not be.

Why can that not be? You're reading way too much into "global warming". It doesn't mean that every place on earth will get hotter. It doesn't mean that no place on earth will get colder. It only means that the average temperature of the surface of the earth will experience a net increase over time and that the chance for previously exceptional weather conditions could be enhanced by this change.

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
Also what you are seeing in these Hurricanes is just a simple cycle that Earth goes through, has nothing to do with Global Warming.

It's odd to me that you can be so suspicious of others and yet speak with such absolute terms as though your words were beyond criticism.

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
do not quote me on this as I do not have my facts in front of me

That didn't stop you from posting, so why should it stop us from quoting?

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
Finally I am not telling you to go leave you cars running outside non stop, nor telling you to leave your lights on 24/7, but I am telling you this, all these people are trying to do, are put us in a State of Fear, don't let them.

What you're telling us is that we have no reason to be concerned. Except that you don't even seem to know why were concerned in the first place.

Quoting NUair (Reply 12):
If you want to stop global warming stop stressing over SUV's and become a Vegan.

The issues that we must solve are not solved by only one narrow-minded method. We must attack them through several avenues and each do what we can to help. Insisting that everyone (except yourself) solve the problem by following the one narrow-minded path you happened to think of is just plain ignorant and arrogant.

Quoting NUair (Reply 12):
Blaming SUV's for rising gas prices and deadly accidents caused by short Asian women is one thing but blaming them for global warming is nothing short of crazy.

You have not yet demonstrated that you even understand the premise of global warming, so why should your views be taken seriously?

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
Have fun with than and remember that a major Volcano eruption in North America would do more damage in the form of Global Warming than the last 20 years of all US vehicle operations has done.

Point? I guess you're saying that we should all just sit on our ass looking fat, dumb, and happy instead of rising to meet the challenge.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
If you start seeing spots, you'll know why then. Many people have vision impairment due to fluorescent light use. About 1 in 1,000. I'f I'm around them for say 3-4 hours, I begin getting blind areas in my field of vision. Makes me want to go buy an ass load of them... Not.

I have the newer fluorescent lights all through out my house and they don't cause any of the eye strain or other problems that I used to get from the older models. You should try them out.

Seeing is believing...

Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Thread starter):
Considering the current hurricane season and the chance that they might be the result of global warming,

Dr. William Gray, probably the foremost expert on hurricanes, has said that so called "global warming" has nothing to do with the increase in hurricanes. It is simply part of a cycle that has identified for almost 80 years.

Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists. Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it. It's funny but the same people always spouting off about global warming are the same people in the 1960's and 1970's that were saying we're all going to die from "global cooling".

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
Have fun with than and remember that a major Volcano eruption in North America would do more damage in the form of Global Warming than the last 20 years of all US vehicle operations has done.

Of course the volcano wouldn't erupt if President Bush had signed Kyoto. /sarcasm
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists. Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it.

Men can increase the warming/cooling process by damaging the environment, polluting the athmosphere etc.. you need to get off the "no-proof theory" . An obvious relation is worrysome enough. And there is no antiproof yet. Hence, we should better be cautious than regret later  old 
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
aer lingus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:40 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:45 am

If I was someone like Bob Geldof. I would ban all oil used for making fuel and make everyone use ethanol and seed oils which is made by plants. Using ethanol and seed oils from plants produces no Carbon Dioxide at all. So you could be driving an SUV with a 10 litre size engine using ethanol and no Carbon Dioxide is produced. What can you say? Less severe storms, Less air pollution and many more. Also ethanol and seed oils are renewable too.

Nobody needs to think about global warming if fossil fuels are banned worldwide.
Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 20):
If I was someone like Bob Geldof. I would ban all oil used for making fuel and make everyone use ethanol and seed oils which is made by plants. Using ethanol and seed oils from plants produces no Carbon Dioxide at all. So you could be driving an SUV with a 10 litre size engine using ethanol and no Carbon Dioxide is produced. What can you say? Less severe storms, Less air pollution and many more. Also ethanol and seed oils are renewable too.

You've been fed some bum info somewhere along the way. An FFV running on E85 produces 96% the CO2 as the same FFV running on gas. CO2 is an unavoidable byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion. The emissions improvements for E85 lie in hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen.
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:57 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:18 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 8):
Ok, well while all of you may think Global Warming is some serious matter, I struggle to believe that is indeed true.

Oooops, Airlinerfreak, you are Anti-American. This is what other A'netters called me when I wrote the same you did: there is a combination between Global Warming and Hurricanes.

But unfortunatelly only few people in your country care! So oil prices have to get higher and higher, maybe wallet gets empty then  Smile


And the point is: there are countries and islands which won't exist any longer in 40, 50 years. People are whining cause of the hurricanes coming to the US? Let's talk about the "dying" countries like Seychelles, Maledives, also parts of Denmark, etc.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists.

Then what is their motivation spending so much time and money trying to get the word out? What do they have to gain from it? I can think of many reasons why entrenched industrial markets, lobbyists and politicians would benefit from downplaying the issue and pretending it has no chance of causing any harm. However, I still can't think of any reason why a relatively insignificant environmental group would personally benefit from trying to draw attention to the ever increasing amount of scientific data that appears to substantiate the well-founded concept of global warming. How many folks do you know that started out as environmentalists and ended up rich as a result? The only wealthy environmentalists I've ever heard of always started out rich first and then became environmentalists afterward.

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it. I

Global warming isn't disproved by prior records of naturally occurring temperature variations

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
It's funny but the same people always spouting off about global warming are the same people in the 1960's and 1970's that were saying we're all going to die from "global cooling".

You appear to crave irony even though you have no evidence or source to back it up.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 22):
Oooops, Airlinerfreak, you are Anti-American.

People also call me Anti-American, though I am American "by law". But I prefer to be critical towards my own nation than to saying "Yes!" solely. The best friends and supporters are the critical ones, the ones who say: "Hey stop! You are making a mistake!", rather than: "Oh, you are so great, I love everything you do!"  Smile
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Blackbird1331
Topic Author
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:25 am

I apologize for my outburst. It was my fault for trying to tackle two problems within one thought. What I should have asked was, considering the effects they, the hurricanes,will have on production and refining, what would you voluntarily do to conserve energy until things are back to normal?

I did not mean to imply that I would permanently drive just three days a week, or that anyone should not drive an SUV.

Thank you for the replies. I hope I have not wasted your time.

Pease.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
You have not yet demonstrated that you even understand the premise of global warming, so why should your views be taken seriously?

I guess you couldn't be bothered to read posts 3 and 12 which both come from outside sources not my own opinion... but I guess CNN isn't a real source in your mind.

You're the only one on this thread who has yet to post a single fact. At a minimum (although I'm not that serious since I ride a bike) I have at least pointed out that targeting SUV's, which account for a tiny portion of greenhouse gas emissions, is childs play compared to what improvements you could make by switching to solar power at your home (talk to Mrniji about that) which replaces coal use. Or not eating dairy products or beef which comes from cows, which is a large part of agricultural methane production which supposedly accounts for 40-60% of all greenhouse gases.

So aside from saying its hot outside in 1979...

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Seeing is believing...

...let's see some proof. Show us the same picture in 2005 and tell us that it is from increases in gases produced by SUV's and not from increasing heat production from the sun or increasing dependence on protein from cattle or increased use of coal.

Show me some evidence that disproves what I said in post 3. Show me some evidence that says a cow doesn't produce 1400+ times the amount of greenhouse gases as a Lincoln SUV.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Blackbird1331
Topic Author
Posts: 1740
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RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:57 am

Okay NUair: Let's compromise, I'll go out and shoot a cow if you can make someone turn in an SUV.  Smile

May I ask a personal question, seriously, do you eat steak? I do, but have cut back, and not for environmental reasons.

We are in this together. Whether you eat meat, or drive a vehicle, some other vehicle was needed to get the final product to us.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 23):
However, I still can't think of any reason why a relatively insignificant environmental group would personally benefit from trying to draw attention to the ever increasing amount of scientific data that appears to substantiate the well-founded concept of global warming.

There are many people out looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

I agree that the earth is getting warmer. I also believe that the earth has gone through periods of warm and cool cycles. The key, of course is to try and determine to what effect human activity of the last 50 years might be influencing the current warming trend. I'm not sure what the right answer is frankly, but I'll throw out one theory that doesn't seem to get much discussion on Anet.

How about it is related to the fact that the earth's population is skyrocketing? Maybe we wouldn't be using so much fossil fuel and generating greenhouse gases if there weren't so damn many people on the planet.

As Paul Simon once said, "the planet groans, every time it registers another birth."

Standing by for the incoming..... stirthepot 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 27):
Okay NUair: Let's compromise, I'll go out and shoot a cow if you can make someone turn in an SUV.

What?? You get to shoot a cow and I have to go out and talk to 1400+ SUV drivers? How is that fair?

I guess I better get started and stop bitching on A-Net...

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 27):
May I ask a personal question, seriously, do you eat steak? I do, but have cut back, and not for environmental reasons.

I love steak and I grew up in Wisconsin so half my diet is dairy. So despite the fact that I don't use my A/C and ride my bike everywhere, according to these facts on cows I'm hurting the environment much more than some vegan in her SUV.

My solution...

Cow flare's  Smile



Burn the methane off before it kills the Ozone.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:30 am

Well let´s hope there´ll be a warm winter in the northern hemisphere and that
Rita is over-rated...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
BR076
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 4:10 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists. Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it.

some reading for you

American scientists prove global warming.

Quote:
"This is perhaps the most compelling evidence yet that global warming is happening right now and it shows that we can successfully simulate its past and likely future evolution," said lead author Tim Barnett, of the climate research division at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego, California.
ú
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
I guess you couldn't be bothered to read posts 3 and 12 which both come from outside sources not my own opinion... but I guess CNN isn't a real source in your mind.

Post 3: You mentioned something that apparently hasn't happened in some 440 million years and is impossible to prevent. Even if true, why should we worry about something that only happens once every few hundred million years and is completely unpreventable? Global warming, on the other hand, is expected to cause trouble far earlier than a million years from now and there are many things we can do to lesson the damage right this minute.

Post 12: You mentioned that continuously running the air conditioner is an unnecessary source of pollution, which I agree with. [edited]

You also mentioned that cows have been found to be a source of pollution as well, and I also agree with this. However I'm somewhat doubtful this was mentioned as part of a good faith effort to elicit real progress toward a cleaner environment. Instead, your comments appeared to be yet another attempt to simply deflect criticism away from full-size inefficient SUV's and trucks, as shown here:

Quoting NUair (Reply 12):
Blaming SUV's for rising gas prices and deadly accidents caused by short Asian women is one thing but blaming them for global warming is nothing short of crazy.

-------------

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
You're the only one on this thread who has yet to post a single fact.

Care to actually specify what you think I lied about?

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
At a minimum (although I'm not that serious since I ride a bike)

Do you ride your bike to work, the store, and to reach your friend's house?

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
I have at least pointed out that targeting SUV's, which account for a tiny portion of greenhouse gas emissions, is childs play compared to what improvements you could make by switching to solar power at your home (talk to Mrniji about that) which replaces coal use.

There is nothing mutually exclusive about targeting emissions resulting from inefficient vehicular usage and targeting emissions that result from inefficiencies in home appliances and power sources. Your black-and-white view of the world appears to be too limited to see this.

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
Or not eating dairy products or beef which comes from cows, which is a large part of agricultural methane production which supposedly accounts for 40-60% of all greenhouse gases.

So, are we to believe that you yourself are a vegan? I do my best to follow my own suggestions regarding the environment. For instance, I own one of the most efficient vehicles on the road, I carpool, and I make every effort to choose more efficient appliances and use them responsibly. Hopefully you also practice what you preach.

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
let's see some proof. Show us the same picture in 2005 and tell us that it is from increases in gases produced by SUV's and not from increasing heat production from the sun or increasing dependence on protein from cattle or increased use of coal.

There are obviously many reasons for climate change, and many of these may still remain unknown to us. However, regardless of what is currently the primary culprit of global warming, we can be fairly certain that reducing the level of emissions can't hurt. Even if you believe that global warming is being caused primarily by conditions unrelated to human activity, that is no reason to simply ignore the situation. The only power we have to reverse or even slow this trend is to reduce our pollution levels. Even if the initial warming is unrelated to human activity, the solution is still exactly the same.

Quoting NUair (Reply 26):
Show me some evidence that disproves what I said in post 3. Show me some evidence that says a cow doesn't produce 1400+ times the amount of greenhouse gases as a Lincoln SUV.

Post 3 doesn't even appear to be on-topic so far as I can tell. Thus, even through I have no reason to dispute it, I don't see why I should bother to respond to it.

What cows do or do not produce has no bearing on the fact that reduced usage of full-size SUV's and trucks will result in fewer emissions than simply ignoring them altogether. Suggestions for reducing the 90,000,000 or so cattle that graze in the US are probably fodder better suited for another thread.


(Edited to be slightly kinder)

[Edited 2005-09-23 23:55:32]
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Blackbird1331
Topic Author
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:04 am

This might work. I get to ride a cow to work, and then get him to heat my home. Goodbye SUVs.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:29 am

I have assessed some of the studies that I've seen that claimed to "prove" global warming. All have had easily identifiable MAJOR methodological errors. I see no reason to swallow that one hook, line, and sinker without the traditional process of peer review.
 
Airlinerfreak
Posts: 1246
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:27 am

SATX,
Are you just one of those types of people that will argue with anyone about anything no matter what your opinion on the statement is? I take that as a yes..show me some facts that's when I will abide by anything you say, no facts, why the hell should I waste my time about you arguing over something you don't have a great deal of knowledge about. Present both sides of the argument when disagreeing with someone not just one.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 35):
Are you just one of those types of people that will argue with anyone about anything no matter what your opinion on the statement is? I take that as a yes.

Putting words in my mouth then?

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 35):
Present both sides of the argument when disagreeing with someone not just one.

Oh, you mean like you do?

Try living up to your own standards for a change.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists. Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it. It's funny but the same people always spouting off about global warming are the same people in the 1960's and 1970's that were saying we're all going to die from "global cooling".

We're not causing it, we're accelerating it and although fuck all could happen next year during hurricane season I don't know how you can say and actually believe that the amount of fossil fuels we burn have no effect on the atmosphere. We will most likely not be alive to see the effects to the world which will eventually go into another ice age again the only thing is that we cannot prove that we are accelerating the process 100%. Storms are how the planet cools itself and the more intense ones, cool the planet more so that will be the one of the only indicators for global warming now and in the future.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 18):
Man made "Global warming" is nothing but a sham theory put out environmentalists. Ice cores, tree rings, and other evidence shows that the earth goes through periods of warming and cooling and has been doing so long before man burned enough of anything to effect it. It's funny but the same people always spouting off about global warming are the same people in the 1960's and 1970's that were saying we're all going to die from "global cooling".

Please stop spouting off your knee jerk generic right wing statements repeated time and time again.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 38):
Please stop spouting off your knee jerk generic right wing statements repeated time and time again.

I would suggest that he has the right to post whatever "knee jerk generic right wing statements" he'd like. After all, it kinda balances out all the knee jerk unsupportable incoherent and loony remarks that you make, don't you think?

Still waiting for you to back up your rasing taxes on just the top 10% of earners will solve the deficit assertion, by the way.

[Edited 2005-09-24 04:01:46]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 19):
Men can increase the warming/cooling process by damaging the environment, polluting the athmosphere etc.. you need to get off the "no-proof theory" . An obvious relation is worrysome enough. And there is no antiproof yet. Hence, we should better be cautious than regret later

Then you better tell China to quit fucking.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
Have fun with than and remember that a major Volcano eruption in North America would do more damage in the form of Global Warming than the last 20 years of all US vehicle operations has done.

It's one thing to have an opinion, but when you state it as fact, disregarding science just as your beloved adminstration does so often, you probably ought to preface statements such as the above with "I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, so here's my opinion."

http://plaza.ufl.edu/airwess/

"Carbon dioxide emissions from volcanoes total around 110 million tons per year, but this number is extremely small if compared to the 10 billion tons put into the atmosphere by human activities." "There are those who argue that volcanic carbon dioxide emissions result in long-term global warming, but the amounts released by volcanoes have not proven to be substantial enough to significantly affect the global temperature in the long run."

"Sulfur dioxide has the most adverse effect on the atmosphere of any of the volcanic gases. Sulfur dioxide is converted to sulfuric acid within months of the eruption. Winds then spread these newly formed aerosols over the majority of the globe, where they stay in the atmosphere for upwards of two years. Not only do these aerosols cool the earth’s surface by reflecting sunlight back into space, but the sulfuric acid also plays a role in the increased depletion of ozone (http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Aerosols.html). Ozone is a natural absorbant of solar radiation, so when it is replaced by reflective aerosols the total radiative energy in the atmosphere decreases, resulting in global cooling. "

Even just a tiny snatch of knowledge can be a wonderful thing. You ought to try it sometime.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 40):
Then you better tell China to quit fucking.

Listen, you impolite looser: I am making a point within the discussion, while you are not able to contribute anything else than: "Uaaaahh, tell 'em first to quit fucking". The one who sits in a glasshouse should not throw stones.. you behave like a little baby: "His lolly is bigger than mine", or "My toy is better than yours". Grow up
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Global Warming/Energy Conservation

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
Still waiting for you to back up your rasing taxes on just the top 10% of earners will solve the deficit assertion, by the way.

I backed it up by giving you an example from history. How many times do I have to repeat myself in each thread you are complaining in?

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