CaptOveur
Topic Author
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A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:41 pm

I have been watching the mess in Houston, and passing all the information I can back to my father, who is working to get one of his truck drivers out of Houston and we have been sort of pondering something.

OK here are some accepted facts:

Houston is above sea level.

Houston's police force is professional, and will not have around a third of them deserting in the wake of a disaster.

Houston is not going to flood, aside from the storm surge.

There will be looting in Houston, there is in any disaster like this, but it will be minor compared to NO.

Given all this, why are they evacuating?

My theory, and it may be as bad as something MD-90 finds on one of his sky is falling websites is this: Houston is being evacuated just so the powers that be in Washington can see if it is possible to quickly evacuate a major city.

The answer is no, it isn't possible. The guy my dad is trying to get out is in a truck with a 53 foot trailer, empty.. he has about 150 gallons of diesel on board.. enough to last a damn long time thankfully. He has been trying to get out of the city for almost 24hrs. He is on the way to Austin.. He may make it by morning, or maybe not. He would just stop, go to bed, and wait, except there is no place to stop.

Imagine if this evacuation was being done under threat of a nuclear, biological, or chemical attack? Well, at least the emergency crews would know where to find the bodies.. clogging the highways.

Peoples cars are dead along the road, there is no fuel to be bought because poor planning has the fuel delivery guys leaving with everyone else. People are going in any direction they please, there is very little order.

The people of Houston need to be glad this is a slow moving storm, they would have been better off stuck at home than stuck along the highway when the hurricane hits.

My solution would have been this... Say if you are in a certain set of zip codes you will exit the city to Dallas. Another set of codes, you will exit towards San Antonio. Another set of codes, down the coast towards Corpus. After you reach a given jumping off point, you can go wherever you like. The highways would have been made all one way within a few hours of the evac order being given.. not 2-3 days into it. Fuel delivery drivers would be included with firefighters and police in a mass evac as mission critical people.. 4 million people don't move on willpower alone, it takes fuel. Tow Trucks would be put at the ready to drag any dead cars off the road.. The people from the dead cars would be bussed to shelters.

This would be expensive, it would require a lot of changes.. but this evacuation thing is a mess, if this was a more serious threat the evacuation would cause more harm than good.. it may still.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:58 pm

Now, I don't know about you, but when I see this coming towards me....
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/Hurricane%20Isabel2.jpg


....I would tend to runaway too.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Thread starter):
There will be looting in Houston, there is in any disaster like this,

Well, first things first.

If there is looting Houston, there will be shots fired. Texas law, unlike Louisiana, actually *requires* it's citizens to protect against it . . . in the event a law enforcement officer is not available Texans are obligated under the law to protect their lives and property AND their neighbor's live and property as well.

So, let them loot - or rather let them try.

Now as to the rest CaptOveur, I'd be as far from Houston as I could be right now . . . above sea level, professional police force, storm surge notwithstanding. And I would have left two days ago, not waiting on the traffic jam and the rest of the mess.

As an aside: Charles Krauthammer was hilarious tonight. He said the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans have evidently learned from their mistakes with Katrina . . . "they managed to get all 11 people left in New Orleans out of town".
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
cfalk
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:42 pm

There are parts of Houston, like Missouri City, which are extremely prone to flooding. If I were still living there, I would be sending my family away someplace and stay myself just to keep an eye on things and do what I can. Even in Missouri City, at worst you'll get a couple of feet of water, not like 20-30 feet like in NO.

Galveston is different. The whole island is only a few feet above the water, and the storm surge could well inundate the entire island, and wave action could well wipe out any buildings there. I would definately bail out of there.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
CaptOveur
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:52 pm

I am not saying don't evacuate.. However, people know who needs to leave and who can get by if they stay put... This evacuating the whole area has made it so maybe some of the people who should have gone can't or won't.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
NWA742
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
If there is looting Houston, there will be shots fired. Texas law, unlike Louisiana, actually *requires* it's citizens to protect against it . . . in the event a law enforcement officer is not available Texans are obligated under the law to protect their lives and property AND their neighbor's live and property as well.

Exactly, and that is a good thing about this state.

Texans will not tolerate that kind of crap. Many business owners here are armed for reasons just like this. They had a Texas County Sherriff talking on MSN I think, and he said both cops and property owners can and will shoot those who endanger their property or lives.

Hopefully news like this has got around, so nobody tries to loot and gets killed.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:01 pm

I just can't believe that at 1AM local time, the freeways are still bumper-to-bumper leaving Houston.

At least Louisiana understands the word "contraflow".
International Homo of Mystery
 
miamiair
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:18 pm

My sister is stuck on the way to Austin from Houston. Says it is frustrating, but she would rather be safe in AUS than stay in HOU.

It also appears that Texans are better prepared than their neighbors in LA (maybe the state government has something to do with this?), and not to mention, armed as well.

It is a sad testament to society that some people relish the moment that may be the most low for survivors of a natural disaster to loot and plunder. I hope they get what they have coming to them; a bullet that will end the need for trials, appeals, trials and more appeals. Do society a favor, shoot a looter!
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
ltbewr
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:37 pm

Perhaps the warnings were too well made? Too much media hype compounded by the Katrina coverage? Probably many of those who left in the Houston area were at very low risk of flooding or getting killed, but still the wind damage in the region could mean NO electric power for weeks in some areas and thus a very poor quality of life for a while. Many may also fear lawlessness after the storm, especially if no electricty, thinned out police (as made a big deal of with Katrina).
The real disaster here is the affects on oil, gasoline, diesel and natural gas pricing and supplies. Over 10% of the refining capacity of the USA will be shut down on top of the 5% already down due to Katrina and make for huge gas/diesel price increases and possible long term reductions in refining capacity from storm damage and many oil/natural gas platforms. The ports where imported oil comes in and oil products distributed will also be shut down for maybe days as well. Loss of electricity from the storm could shut down the pipelines. Then this storm will stall out over northern TX, AR, for days, causing massive flooding in the region.
This is someing like the series of biblical plagues. What next, locusts?
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:51 pm

Well, who in their right mind, would WANT to stay with 150 mile an hour winds possible; or torrential rains? Wny would you stay-simply to protect THINGS. A lot of people in the Gulf Coast did that a few weeks back, and many who stayed but could have left paid with their lives.

Sorry, THINGS aren't worth dying for, or shooting someone for. Get out of town, be safe, and deal wtih what happens afterward. At least you'll be alive to deal with it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
miamiair
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:02 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
Sorry, THINGS aren't worth dying for, or shooting someone for.

Sorry, but there are people on the other side of the coin that don't care if they have to kill YOU, to get what they want. Whether it be a pair of sneakers, your plasma TV or your water and food; not on my watch.

From my point of view, if I were to stay in my home (like a lot of us did during hurricane Andrew), and I was prepared (water, food, generator, fuel, medical supplies) and I have no desire to leave (Don't live in a flood zone) then why should I let people that have no desire to prepare for such a calamity take by force what I have?

Thankfully the last two brushes with these minimal (to us) hurricanes (Katrina & Rita), all of our neighbors supported each other and helped out with what we could; cutting trees out of the way, patching roofs and even lending a gnereator so that the food in the refrigerators wouldn't be lost. If it had been worse and there were problems with looters, we would still support and protect each other, it is only the correct thing to do, not drop your drawers and bend over.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:16 pm

Sorry, Miamiair, but that's my view. I'd leave town, not take a chance of getting injured or killed by 150 mph winds, and if someone wants my TV, fine. But I'm not going to risk my life or any of family's lives, to protect THINGS.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
baylorairbear
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
I just can't believe that at 1AM local time, the freeways are still bumper-to-bumper leaving Houston.

Flying HOU-SAN, I saw traffic jams literally 100 miles long. It's unreal.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
wind damage in the region could mean NO electric power for weeks in some areas and thus a very poor quality of life for a while. Many may also fear lawlessness after the storm, especially if no electricty, thinned out police (as made a big deal of with Katrina).

Texans are very good with utilities. My mother works for TXU (the main supplier here), and they have already staged workers throughout the at risk regions. Generally, worst case scenario is that some might be without power for three days, even in an event like this. We'll see.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
What next, locusts?

No; I think next will be a swarm of threads talking about who caused this hurricane.

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
miamiair
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:36 pm

Falcon,

You are most certainly entitled to your view, and I can respect the fact that you would leave. But in the case of Andrew, it just blossomed into a monster basically overnight, so there was little time to do anything. But what if you can't get out? What if you are stuck in your home then what? This is what I am talking about.

I am not going to pretend that my roof will take 150 mph winds, but I have to face my home at some point. Maybe if I did leave, it would still be a mess, then what? After Andrew, a lot of people had trailers on their properties while they rebuilt their homes, and not all homes were destroyed either.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
jaysit
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:50 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Thread starter):
Given all this, why are they evacuating?

Over reaction in the aftermath of Katrina maybe? The prospect of 150 mph gail winds ripping through their homes and turning them back into the cheap materials those townhouse developers first built them out of?

All that this shows is that 4 years after 9-11 and billions of dollars spent later, we have no real evacuation plans for our cities. I've often told friends that should we in Washington, DC be faced with a very real terrorist attack, I'll take my chances and stay put right here. Bring out the champagne, make a good meal, and watch some Golden Girls, and light up my first cigarette in 20 years instead of trying to edge out of town at 1 inch per hour with 3 million idiots in SUVs.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
baylorairbear
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:55 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
Golden Girls

That's your idea of a good time?!? I hope we're never stranded together.  Wink

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
Barcode
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:12 pm

If I'm understanding the news correctly, then people are going to be riding out the storm whilst sitting in their car on the highways. One woman was saying she managed to drive a whopping one mile in four hours.

Are there no backroads? Presumably, nobody is coming into the city, so why not just find a space to drive over into the (usually incoming traffic) lane? Yes, it's illegal, but heck, I'd be doing whatever I can to get out of there.

I've just heard an evacuation bus has exploded. The whole thing is turning into a comedy of errors. Right now, I'm very very thankful I live in a part of the world where mother nature is generally stable.
 
TedTAce
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:16 pm

I think Bush has failed again. Could he not as the former Governor who had seen hurricanes come before know that the roads/infrastructure was insufficient to evacuate all Metro Houston Galviston in a timely manner?
This space intentionally left blank
 
TPASXM787
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
I think Bush has failed again. Could he not as the former Governor who had seen hurricanes come before know that the roads/infrastructure was insufficient to evacuate all Metro Houston Galviston in a timely manner?

O'm pretty sure that you're joking, becuase this would have happened anywhere. Try here in TPA, where there are 3 bridges and one interstate out that is under perpetual construction. We'd be just as screwed.

I'd stay, as my house is 50 years old and built like a brick shithouse and I'm not in an evacuation zone. The storms last year took out all my big trees, so I'd stock the non-perishables and water and booze and pack all my friends and family that live in low-lying areas in.

 candle   champagne 
This is the Last Stop.
 
cfalk
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
I think Bush has failed again. Could he not as the former Governor who had seen hurricanes come before know that the roads/infrastructure was insufficient to evacuate all Metro Houston Galviston in a timely manner?

What do you think he is, God? You have X number of roads and lanes heading north and west, and you have X million people trying to get on them. Do the math.

My question is, are there reasons for the traffic jam other than simple congestion. Accidents? Old man driving his '47 packard in the left lane at 5 MPH? What?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
Perhaps the warnings were too well made? Too much media hype compounded by the Katrina coverage

I've been through a few Hurricanes in Houston, like Alecia in '83. Power goes out for a couple of days, there is a lot of trash in the streets, and there is some flooding, generally in areas that are well know for it (Houston gets lots of flash flooding, due to sandy soil). Those people in known flood areas should maybe move out, but I would say that at least 80% of Houston does not need to be evacuated (unlike Galveston). I think there is a definate overeaction.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
TPASXM787
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Those people in known flood areas should maybe move out, but I would say that at least 80% of Houston does not need to be evacuated (unlike Galveston).

This is true. When the Tampa Bay metro area (3 to 4 million pop.) was threatened last year, the exodus was a disaster. Pinellas county has huge issues because there are lots of low-lying areas and three bridges to get out on. I'm lucky to live on high ground, but my neighbor behind me is about 15 feet below me, so I drain into her yard.

All of the barrier islands need to get out, but for example like here, when you go over the bridge from the beach, you go up at least 30 feet in elevation.

People need to be cautious but NOT go crazy.
This is the Last Stop.
 
jaysit
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
What do you think he is, God? You have X number of roads and lanes heading north and west, and you have X million people trying to get on them. Do the math.

This means that 4 years after 9-11, there are no viable plans for evacuation of major urban centers in the face of a catastrophe.

Maybe it isn't even feasible. There are logistical limits to what can be achieved.

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 15):
That's your idea of a good time?!? I hope we're never stranded together.

Hey, it beats watching Paula Zahn chatter endlessly on how little Tommy and his family are fleeing the hurricane.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
SATL382G
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
I think Bush has failed again. Could he not as the former Governor who had seen hurricanes come before know that the roads/infrastructure was insufficient to evacuate all Metro Houston Galviston in a timely manner?

That's funny Ted...

First the Liberals would have said "we don't need the roads for nuclear war evacuation. Don't you know nuclear war is unwinable? We'll all be dead anyway!! Spend the money on welfare!"

Second, while the roads were being built, the Liberals would have claimed the contractors were friends of Bush.

Lastly, after the roads were complete, the Libs would have complained that money spent to maintain them would be better spent on public transit...

Whaa!
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
cfalk
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
This means that 4 years after 9-11, there are no viable plans for evacuation of major urban centers in the face of a catastrophe.



Quoting SATL382G (Reply 22):
Lastly, after the roads were complete, the Libs would have complained that money spent to maintain them would be better spent on public transit...

And you forgot the ecological impact of increasing the number of lanes on each highway, and of building new roads.

Let's face it, any time you are talking about evacuating more than 5 million people, you just can't do it in less than a week or two, and unfortunately you can't predict the weather that far ahead. If you were to evacuate all the coasts (just in case) every time a hurricane appeared in the Atlantic, the entire gulf coast would be a basket case.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
DucatiRacer
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:22 pm

Living in Dallas, I must admit I have been absolutely disgusted with our local news media. All week the weather people here in North Texas have been practically ejaculating on themselves with constant reports of impending doom for our area. Talk about desperate for some of the hurricane glory!

As I left for the office yesterday morning, the local NBC affiliate was still predicting a near direct hit of the eye here in Dallas, and that the storm would still be a Cat 1 hurricane when it got here. 10 minutes later when I arrived in my office, I checked CNN and the Weather Channel. Both sources already had articles discussing Rita's weakening, and stating that it would most likely travel well east of DFW. It was not until this morning that I heard any local news source admit that the storm would probably not affect us much as it was passing to the east. As a result of the ridiculous hype, as late as last night people were still swamping Wal-Mart, etc. to stock up on bottled water and emeergency supplies - absolutely insane. Unfortunately, its current track appears to take it almost right to my parents front door in Texarkana, but the thing is supposed to be little more than a tropical depression when it gets there.
 
jaysit
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 22):
First the Liberals would have said "we don't need the roads for nuclear war evacuation. Don't you know nuclear war is unwinable? We'll all be dead anyway!! Spend the money on welfare!"

Keep sputtering inanities (apparently as easy as falling off a bike for you).

Federal Highway funds have always been a big Democratic Party interest, even as the GOP has for years lobbied for State governments - and, yes, private toll operators - to take over that role.

Now, if major American cities had viable mass transit operations linking each other (again, another big liberal goal), then perhaps those federal highways wouldn't be all clogged up with gas guzzling SUVs.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
11Bravo
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:38 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
Maybe it isn't even feasible. There are logistical limits to what can be achieved.

I think that's absolutely correct. Whether you’re talking about New Orleans, Houston, Tampa Bay, or any other major metropolitan area in the country, I think it’s naive to think that a complete evacuation is possible in less than a week. Given the 48-72 hour warning that we get with hurricanes, I think 80% +/- is about the best we can expect.

It will be interesting to see some estimates of how many people actually managed to get out of Houston when this is all said and done. The only number I’ve heard is 2 million, which is about 35% of the Galveston-Houston metro area. There is no mandatory evacuation, but the road system is obviously at full capacity. It’s hard to imagine how they could possibly get all 6 million out if they had to.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:05 am

I understand why people in places like Galveston and Clear Lake are evacuating, and if I was in a zone that was likely to be flooded, I'd be evacuating too. But that's what the mandatory evacuation orders are for. I do not understand why people in places like The Woodlands are evacuating. (Except for those who have special needs and must have power, for example.) Where are you going to go? Dallas? The storm's heading there too. What will you do once you get there? Wait a few days and then turn around and go home? Yeah, it'll be uncomfortable with no power for a while but people won't stay away for very long. As soon as the threat has passed they'll head back to check out their stuff. I can't see how this storm is going to be catastrophic to most of the Houston area like Katrina was to New Orleans. I can't see how it will cause permanent destruction in most areas. If I was there, I would be hunkering down for the duration.

We work closely with a company in The Woodlands and my coworkers all have the idea that everyone from the company has evacuated. I really doubt that. The company is closed and that's as it should be so people can go home and get ready. But I do not think everyone has packed up and left.

So we seem to have this strange expectation hanging out there that everyone should get out and that everyone has gotten out...neither of which are true.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
slider
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Thread starter):
Houston is not going to flood, aside from the storm surge.

Bullshit!

There are a network of bayous, rivers, creeks, etc, that all run over Houston metro area- ultimately, when you get that much water, it's gotta go somewhere. Even on the far northside where i live, flooding is prevalent. I'm worried about my house in fact given the elevation and the fact that if they pop the locks/dams up in Conroe again, Cyress Creek goes tits up and several neighborhoods go under.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
If there is looting Houston, there will be shots fired. Texas law, unlike Louisiana, actually *requires* it's citizens to protect against it . . . in the event a law enforcement officer is not available Texans are obligated under the law to protect their lives and property AND their neighbor's live and property as well.

So, let them loot - or rather let them try.

Huah. Texans don't play. You come after my shit, you get 2 between the eyes. I don't anticipate this happening much.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
Could he not as the former Governor who had seen hurricanes come before know that the roads/infrastructure was insufficient to evacuate all Metro Houston Galviston in a timely manner?

Are your eyes brown?

Highway 146 and NASA Road 1, along with maybe a few other minor thoroughfares down by Lake Jackson and Freeport, and Kemah are inadequate, but there's plenty of capacity. The problem is that MANDATORY evacuation people, closer to Galveston, got stuck behind NON-mandatory evac people because the whole town skinnied out at once. Everyone's so hyper-paranoid after Katrina that the entire city bailed at ONE TIME. That would be a problem in any city regardless of road capacity.

I do think they were a little slow in starting the contraflow plan, but as of last night even, I-45 was still a parking lot, but US 59 north was smooth sailing. I know because I saw it and traveled on it...wide open.

Most of the talk radio shows were offering traffic tips, people calling in and getting creative with alternate outbound routings.

Other than not having the fuel here in advance and the late contraflow plan, I think this massive city of over 4 MILLION people has handled this thing almost as well as can be expected.

Hell, even Home Depot- where I spent hours waiting for plywood- was calm, orderly and well managed. People were nervous a bit, but the mood was one of togetherness, not one of selfish abandon.

I'm proud of how things have gone so far. Now it's time to watch my own ass starting this afternoon.
 
TPASXM787
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
Now it's time to watch my own ass starting this afternoon.

Stay safe dude. Don't try to run out and see if you can stand up in a 140 mph wind. We had an co-worker do that last year during Jeanne and he almost blew down the parking lot. We also had a genius that tired to drive his car through a flooded intersection.

Pure genius.
This is the Last Stop.
 
slider
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 29):
Stay safe dude.

We'll do- thanks bud.

I've got most prep done, just have to finish boarding up this afternoon.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
I don't anticipate this happening much.

Or it'll happen once or twice, til it hits the news  biggrin  . . . that'll be the end of that crap.

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
Now it's time to watch my own ass starting this afternoon.

Strap in and Hang on - literally . . . I have other friends in HOU (non-A-netters) who are on the south side . . . they are sticking it out. I counseled them as to the folley of their ways - but hey, one was a snake eater and figures he's Superman.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
satx
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
Texans will not tolerate that kind of crap.

If Houston gets looted, wouldn't it be Texans doing the looting?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
Many business owners here are armed for reasons just like this.

Let me get this strait. They're armed 365 days a year on the off chance that a major hurricane comes around and their fellow Texans start going crazy and looting the place? It sounds a little unlikely to me.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):
I hope they get what they have coming to them; a bullet that will end the need for trials, appeals, trials and more appeals. Do society a favor, shoot a looter!

Wild West + Mob Rule = Texas Ethics?
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 32):
Let me get this strait. They're armed 365 days a year on the off chance that a major hurricane comes around and their fellow Texans start going crazy and looting the place? It sounds a little unlikely to me.

they're armed to shoot bastards that try to steal their shit in any situation. this just qualifies as an exception.
This is the Last Stop.
 
ANCFlyer
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 32):
Let me get this strait. They're armed 365 days a year on the off chance that a major hurricane comes around and their fellow Texans start going crazy and looting the place?

 sarcastic  sarcastic  sarcastic 

Yet another post from our friend SATX - the guy that makes mountains out of mole hills - reads so much more into any sentence and none of it is relevent.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
baylorairbear
Posts: 2841
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:25 am

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
you get 2 between the eyes.

Why waste an extra round? One will work, unless you've got a .22 short. Then you may as well use a butter knife.

Quoting SATX (Reply 32):
If Houston gets looted, wouldn't it be Texans doing the looting?

Now you're just being an idiot. It will be all of the New Orleans looters that were placed in the Astrodome.

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
CougarAviator
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:45 am

From what I understand, alot of the bottleneck was citizens who did not necessarily have to leave, leaving town......

There were mandatatory evactuations for the lower elevation ares i.e. Galveston, Clear Lake, etc.

Problem was, people from North Houston, and upper elevation areas, all leaving at the same time....

Did I mention that Gov. Rick Perry is an idiot????

From what I understand, all roads in the city of Houston are clear.....
Failure is not an option.....
 
CaptOveur
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting CougarAviator (Reply 36):
Did I mention that Gov. Rick Perry is an idiot????

That is a given

Quoting CougarAviator (Reply 36):
Problem was, people from North Houston, and upper elevation areas, all leaving at the same time....

That is the point I was making.. There are some areas of Houston that needed to leave because they are prone to flooding. The people living there know they are in a flood zone. However, all the asshats from the higher ground decided to flee as well and that made it impossible for some people who probably should have left to get out.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
CougarAviator
Posts: 340
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:25 am

Captnoveur,

I can't wait to see everyone pouring back into the city.......
Failure is not an option.....
 
Superfly
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Thread starter):
My solution would have been this... Say if you are in a certain set of zip codes you will exit the city to Dallas. Another set of codes, you will exit towards San Antonio. Another set of codes, down the coast towards Corpus. After you reach a given jumping off point, you can go wherever you like.

Makes sense to me. Sort of like a fire drill on a mass scale.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):
My sister is stuck on the way to Austin from Houston. Says it is frustrating, but she would rather be safe in AUS than stay in HOU.

Hope she gets though this hurricane unharmed.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
Well, who in their right mind, would WANT to stay with 150 mile an hour winds possible; or torrential rains? Wny would you stay-simply to protect THINGS. A lot of people in the Gulf Coast did that a few weeks back, and many who stayed but could have left paid with their lives.

Sorry, THINGS aren't worth dying for, or shooting someone for. Get out of town, be safe, and deal wtih what happens afterward. At least you'll be alive to deal with it.

Well said!
I totally agree. Besides, the most sentemental valuables aren't wanted by looters/people finding food. Nobody will steal baby pictures, your little league baseball trophies or college degree from your walls.


Cfalk talks as if he is some tough cowboy who is going to stand up to somebody who might steal his twinkies and kool-aid.
Once those 150+ MPH winds blow his roof off, he'll be running & screaming like a little kid that's lost his momma in the department store.
Insurance will take care of your house, TV, home theater, refrigerator, etc.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
instead of trying to edge out of town at 1 inch per hour with 3 million idiots in SUVs.

Amazing how misleading those SUV commercials are. I guess those 4WD SUVs aren't as invincible as people thought.  Sad

"Golden Girls?"
Nah, aI'd rather watch CHiPs, Towering Inferno or Airport '77.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
CaptOveur
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
I guess those 4WD SUVs aren't as invincible as people thought

this is what I was thinking about SUVs.

If you paid the money for 4wd and are trying to get the heck out of the city before the apocalypse.. Why are you sticking to the pavement?

kick it into 4-high and head into the median, or make your own road.. I doubt anyone would have messed with people doing this.


If you can't drive it, don't buy it.

If you are afraid of it, don't buy it.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 40):
If you can't drive it, don't buy it.

If you are afraid of it, don't buy it.

Well they 'need' them to impress there neighbors, co-workers and Church members.


Don't mean to go too far off topic.
Bring back the Concorde
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
Well they 'need' them to impress there neighbors, co-workers and Church members.

My SUV impresses, no one.

Back On Topic:

I have some old friends joining in the big "skee-daddle" from Houston. No luck talking to them via cell.

I was on a couple of Houston area TV station websites that had traffic cams, and oddly, they all seemed to be fairly calm on I-45.

But that flooding, when it happens will be a nightmare. Buffalo Bayou will probably cause plenty of worries.

And Gessner, and those streets in SW Houston would flood at the drop of a hat.

Good Luck!
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
SATL382G
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 23):
Let's face it, any time you are talking about evacuating more than 5 million people, you just can't do it in less than a week or two, and unfortunately you can't predict the weather that far ahead.

A voice of reason in a hurricane of emotion... Thanks!

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 25):
Federal Highway funds have always been a big Democratic Party interest, even as the GOP has for years lobbied for State governments - and, yes, private toll operators - to take over that role.

Please don't expect me to believe that Dems are so far forward thinking and so humanitarian minded as to have put dollars in the Federal Highway budget to facilitate evacuations. Politicians interest went as far as pork, construction jobs, and business constituents and that's it. I'm only aware of one politician who has openly suggested a defense or national security role for the highway system, Eisenhower.

Oh and your personal attacks cheapen your posts. I suggest you avoid that.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
Nobody will steal baby pictures, your little league baseball trophies or college degree from your walls.

You're right they won't steal them. They'll just rip'em off the wall, throw them on the floor, and stomp the sh1t out of them. Probably won't even give it a second thought either.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
corocks
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:15 am

It is totally understandable that so many people are leaving the city given what happened in NO. And yes, Houston will flood, as shown from Tropical Storm Allison just a few years ago - and yes people died from that flood, so I am not questioning anyone who is leaving.

To think that any city the size of Houston, LA, Chicago, etc can be evacuated quickly is foolish. Even with the best laid plans it could never happen. To try and blame the govt is ridiculous. If NO, had not happened, there would not have been so many evacuations and everyone who needed to get out soon would have, and then everyone would have been praising the govt. It is still obvious that we are doing way better than New Orleans did. It is all just a learning experience.

Cars overheating was also just as big a problem as cars running out of gas and contributing to the traffic as it was 102 here in Houston yesterday. Maybe the state legislature can pass a law to keep the temprature down.

I for one am staying home. I live on the NW side of town in an area that does not normally flood, and my house is only 5 years old. I feel pretty safe, as long as I don't go outside like those dumbshits who got arrested this morning surfing in Galveston.

Good luck to all south Texans, and RIP those who died in the bus fire.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting SAtX (Reply 32):
If Houston gets looted, wouldn't it be Texans doing the looting?

 redflag 

Cut the crap, SATX. You know damn well what I meant. Excuse me for not being so particular in saying "law-abiding Texans will not tolerate that kind of crap."

Is that better for you?

Quoting SAtX (Reply 32):
Let me get this strait. They're armed 365 days a year on the off chance that a major hurricane comes around and their fellow Texans start going crazy and looting the place? It sounds a little unlikely to me.

 redflag  redflag  redflag  redflag  redflag 


Ok SATX, enough of this bullshit. Either quit spinning my words, or go back to school and learn to read.


Look at what I said again:

Quote:
Many business owners here are armed for reasons just like this.

That clearly implies that this hurricane is an example of one of those reasons -- I NEVER said that it was the reason they were armed.


If you still don't get it, let me rephrase for you:

Many business owners in TX are armed in the case that things get bad, and this hurricane is an example of one of those things.





-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 45):
Many business owners in TX are armed in the case that things get bad, and this hurricane is an example of one of those things.

This is something I've never understood. Why Texas needs to be so overly armed. Is crime "natural" in Texas? Do "things" get worse in Texas than other places?
International Homo of Mystery
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 45):
Many business owners in TX are armed in the case that things get bad, and this hurricane is an example of one of those things.

Beware, it is only a matter of time before B744F shows up and rants about how people shouldn't be armed...

 box 
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
CaptOveur
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 46):
Why Texas needs to be so overly armed.

It is a matter of history. This was the outer back of beyond for so long and this is sort of the state that rejects government intervention whenever possible. This state was sort of founded on the principles that taxation was wrong and people should be able to do what they please on their property, and the last thing the government needs to be doing is stepping in and telling them they can't defend what is theirs.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: A Few Thoughts On The Mess In Houston

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 46):
Is crime "natural" in Texas? Do "things" get worse in Texas than other places?

Ha Ha . . . no to both questions. . . everyone has a gun!  biggrin 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

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