Falcon84
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A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:50 am

Anyone want any more proof that the support for the war is losing steam? After thousands came out to protest the war in DC earlyer in the week, only a few hundred came out to counter-protest.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/25/war.rally.ap/index.html

A few thoughts about what the pro-war had to say:

"No matter what your ideals are, our sons and daughters are fighting for our freedom," said Marilyn Faatz, who drove from New Jersey to attend the rally. "We are making a mockery out of this. And we need to stand united, but we are not."

Excuse me? They are NOT fighting for MY freedom. No American soldier has gone to war, legitimately, for the freedom of the U.S. since the Second World War. They are not fighting for my freedom: they're fighting to save George Bush's ass now, because he sent them there on an ill-defined, ill-conceived mission, that still has no signs of being successful.

They're fighting for a debt of honor to the Iraqi people, to make their lives as decent as possible, after we invaded their nations without just cause. That's what we're fighting for, Ms. Faatz.

Oh-and the President has made the mockery, not those that oppose the war.

Many demonstrators focused their ire at Cindy Sheehan, the California woman whose protest near President Bush's Texas home last summer galvanized the anti-war movement.

Big deal. Focus on one woman. It's not getting you anywhere, people, except more scorn for you than she has recieved.

Oh, btw, before the conservative Sheehan-bashers go on board,she's increasingly going after Democrats, and, more and more, Hillary Clinton

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0538,lombardiweb,68015,2.html

Here's a little snippet of Sheehen, towards Mrs. Clinton, from "Meet The Press" today.

Mr. Russert: "Before she came to Washington, Knight Ridder reports this. "En route to Washington for the rally, anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan protested outside [Sen. Hillary] Clinton's New York office. `She knows that the war is a lie, but she is waiting for the right time to say it,' Sheehan told about 500 cheering supporters. `You say it or you are losing your job.'"

This is Cindy Sheehan to Hillary Rodham Clinton who very well may be the Democratic nominee in 2008."



(Link is to the MTP transcript. The above quote is about 3/4 the way down.)


"The group who spoke here the other day did not represent the American ideals of freedom, liberty and spreading that around the world," Sen. Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican, told the crowd. "I frankly don't know what they represent, other than to blame America first."

A few points, Senator:

1. Those who spoke there the other day REPRESENT THE VERY ESSENCE OF WHAT AMERICIA IS ABOUT! Unless your idea, Senator, is to walk, goose-step with George Bush, those who speak their mind, freely, are the epitomy of what the United States of Amercia is about.

2. On this issue, Jeffy, America IS TO BLAME. We started the war; we bullied the UN and our our allies to accept it, then spit on them when they didn't go along. We ARE AT FAULT.

One sign on the mall read "Cindy Sheehan doesn't speak for me" and another "Arrest the traitors"; it listed Sheehan's name first among several people who have spoken against the war.

First one doesn't bother me in the least, but after hearing Jeffords damn those against the war for daring to speak their minds, one of the supporters of the war calls those of us who are against it "traitors"? To them I say: go to hell, hateful person. You don't understand America if you REALLY believe people against the war deserved to be arrested and labled traitors.

How many of the very vociferous on this forum believe this? If you do, be honest, put on your flame-retardant suit and say it. At least we'll know where you stand.

Melody Vigna, 44, of Linden, California, said she wants nothing to do with Sheehan and others at nearby Camp Casey, an anti-war site set up to honor her son, Casey, who was killed in Iraq.

"Our troops are over there fighting for our rights, and if she was in one of those countries she would not be able to do that," Vigna said.


EXACTLY, lady! That's what makes American the beacon it has been for two centuries-you ARE ABLE speak your mind, protest your government, oppose policy-AND NOT GET ARRESTED. Thank you for hitting the First Amendment right on the head. I know, missy, you didn't mean it that way, but, in your ignorance, you hit a home run FOR those of us against this war.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those who are a more of a realist about this war than some others, I know we can't leave know-you know, that debt of honor to the people of Iraq and all. But that doesn't mean I will EVER come out in support of it, or will welcome it in any way. It has damanged our good name and reputation, and made us the brunt of jokes worldwide. And I should be PROUD of this?

Flame suit on. Already wearing the Obsession, Captoveur. Fire away. I don't give a rats' ass.

[Edited 2005-09-26 03:51:27]
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Logan22L
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:01 am

A couple of points:

I support the troops, but not the adminstration.

This war is about finishing Bush41s failings and control of the oil fields.

The troops, if they are indeed fighting for our freedoms, as Ms. Faatz proclaims, are fighting for our right to oppose this war. So go screw off, Ms. Fat.

Those numbnuts don't get this.

Tell me one thing: How has toppling Saddam Hussein made us more secure? How?

Another question: How has alienating worldwide Islam against us made us more secure? How?
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
ltbewr
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:30 am

The hurricanes have overwhelmed the recent protests (as well as the war in Iraq) in the 'So Called Liberal' mainstream media for understandable reasons, and to the advantage of the Bush Administration. The problems as to the Hurricanes have also demostrated the lack of emergency planning done to evacuate cities and critical areas of the country (like the oil refineries, ports damaged or disrupted in the Gulf of Mexico) that may be subject to terror attack. It also demostared huge weakesses and limitations as to leadership in the Federal, state and local governments. The hurricanes have also causing more people to reject a continued war in Iraq as we have more important and immediate problems here in the USA, including the insufficient size of the domestic National Guard units in the affected area, along with equipment that was badly needed for these and other potential disasters or a terror attack in Iraq and not here.

I didn't support the decision to go into Iraq and would say that the policy chosen was horrible. We should have encouraged a tighting noose of restrictions on the government (but not the people) especialy as to the 'food for oil' program and to halt the illegal sales of oil by Saddam via Syria and Jordan. It is well understood that the support of the war was built on lies of people in or from Iraq looking to become the new leaders if they could get Saddam out. Those lies were repeated and with a key vote to go to war only a month before Congressional (and some Senate) elections, and with the general public buying those lies and putting pressure on many Democrats to vote in support of war or fear the wrath of the Republicans in the campaigns. So Senators like Clinton and Schumer from NY State, had tremendous pressure from the absolutist Jewish/pro-Israel types as well as a desire by many Americans who wanted revenge against someone, anyone in the Middle east to pay for 9/11. Saddam was convenient enemy due to the well document past crimes of his rule.
Entering the war, we didn't have strong support of allies, inadquate planning, not enough troops, we let the burearucracy be destroyed there (except for the oil ministry). We don't really give a damm about 'freedom' for the Iraquis. We (along with the UK) never have cared about it for 60 years, so long those countries kept doing business with the USA and our oil co's, didn't get friendly with the USSR or now Russia or China and kept the oil flowing. For over 50 years, we turned a blind eye toward the inhumae conditoins of the people in that part of the world (most notabley Saudi Arabia!). We are there to control the access to middle eastern oil, and in particluar the 2nd largest reserves of oil in the world iin Iraq, for the USA and key allies in Europe and Japan - and away from China and India. That's it.
As to the protests, I do have my issues with some of the protestors due to their views of issues other than their objections to the war in Iraq. Ms. Sheehan's obsession and some of her off the wall remarks have turned many Americans from her cause and the 'so called liberal media' in the USA. This president will not and cannot admit he and staff made a huge mistake. Worse, to withdraw now will make our withdrawal in Vietnam seem trival in comparison and appear to be a surrender to the terroist sub-groups in the Islamic world by what is supposed to be the 'only world superpower' wounding itself badly.
Let the arguements continue.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:11 pm

I'm not going to get drawn into an anti-war protest thread . . . especially with three posters I respect . . Falcon, Logan and LTBEWR . . .

I'll say this . . what I thought ironically funny was the photo in the Anchorage Daily News this morning . ..

"Cindy Sheehan and her Security Detail "

Proof positive she's been whored out to what ver cause will give her ear.

That's likely all for me in this thread. . . . .

[Edited 2005-09-26 05:36:58]
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Logan22L
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
"Cindy Sheehan and her Securit Detail "

Proof positive she's been whored out to what ver cause will give her ear.

Agreed, totally. Now, tell me with a straight face that this guy isn't a whore to his cause too:


"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
GuitrThree
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Oh, btw, before the conservative Sheehan-bashers go on board,she's increasingly going after Democrats, and, more and more, Hillary Clinton

Yea, the SAME Cindy Sheehan that said:

"George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power."

If that's not enough to discredit this 70's remake, I don't know what is.
I, like ANC am not going to get drawn into this either.

What I will say, however, two things. One, this anti-war movement is nothing more than the same old, green haired, tree-hugging, pot-smoking, orgy loving lefties that have had nothing to do since the early 1970's.

And two, why were there no more "pro-war" people there? I don't know, but I feel that it probably has something to do with the fact that they have jobs to go to, and just can't travel around the country on some Partridge Family bus tour.

Enough said. I will not discuss this lame Anti-American again. You can if you want, but for someone that says he "doesn't" lick the ba**s of Michael Moore, well, go read his web site and see who his featured "Blogger" is.
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AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 5):
why were there no more "pro-war" people there? I don't know, but I feel that it probably has something to do with the fact that they have jobs to go to

Yups, Wal-Mart lays on extra staff on the weekends.

(Which makes just about as much sense as your explanation.)
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L-188
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 5):
What I will say, however, two things. One, this anti-war movement is nothing more than the same old, green haired, tree-hugging, pot-smoking, orgy loving lefties that have had nothing to do since the early 1970's.

It is sad really.

You have the so called "Greatest Generation" which freed people on two different continents.

You have the Generation X and Y's who have freed at last count 3 different countries, and sent themselves to places like Somolia, The Balkans, and Haiti in the attempt to make the word a better place.

And in the middle you have the Baby Boomers, who's biggest accomplishment is crashing the gates of a rock concert in New York and getting stoned on pot and acid.

It really is quite pathetic these hop-heads are still continuting their ill-suited ways.
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AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
And in the middle you have the Baby Boomers, who's biggest accomplishment is crashing the gates of a rock concert in New York and getting stoned on pot and acid.

That's true only if your atlas doesn't list places like Vietnam.
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texan
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:05 pm

Quote:
"No matter what your ideals are, our sons and daughters are fighting for our freedom," said Marilyn Faatz, who drove from New Jersey to attend the rally. "We are making a mockery out of this. And we need to stand united, but we are not."



Quote:
"The group who spoke here the other day did not represent the American ideals of freedom, liberty and spreading that around the world," Sen. Jeff Sessions, an Alabama Republican, told the crowd. "I frankly don't know what they represent, other than to blame America first."

 redflag  So because I disagree with the war, believe we were lied to in order for W to prove to the world that he has a big dick and can stay in there the entire time and finish the job after papa failed to do so, and am pissed at the blatant cover up by the media and the politicians that the original intent of the war was based upon a fabrication known about at the highest levels of our government I am anti-American? Because I actually question what the scum in Washington tell me to believe I am bringing about the downfall of society? Excuse me, but when you stop questioning the government and follow the leaders blindly, you are helping transform this nation from a Republic/representative democracy into an oligarchy or dictatorship.

Quote:
"Our troops are over there fighting for our rights, and if she was in one of those countries she would not be able to do that," Vigna said.

I still fail to see how curtailing the First and Fourth Amendments here while completely destroying another nation is fighting for our rights. If the war was truly about that, I would be able to support it. In case y'all forgot, this war was initiated to find the missing WMDs. Which, by the way, are still missing since Iraq did not have them. The only ones they ever possessed were the ones Reagan gave to Hussein to fight Iran.

Quote:
"I want him to know and I want his unit to know that America is behind them; Cindy doesn't speak for us, and that we believe in what they are doing."

Ok, so you do not want to know why we are in a war with no end in sight that is costing billions upon billions of dollars, thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives, and caused the ire of a large portion of the world, fine. You don't have to know. Just because you choose to be ignorant does not mean that the rest of us cannot find out the truth. And if I am wrong, which I sincerely hope I am, I have no problem coming back and telling that to every single person with whom I have ever spoken about this issue. If I am right, then the President should be imprisoned for betraying the country's trust and killing more than 1,500 Americans and 25,000 Iraqis.

I support the troops. I have many friends in Iraq. Just because I disagree with the war does not make me anti-American. And just because you support the war does not make you a "true" American or a patriot.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
MaverickM11
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:53 pm

So let's say the anti-war protesters are right, and "we end the war".

How do we "end the war"...and what happens to Iraq?
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L-188
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:01 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
That's true only if your atlas doesn't list places like Vietnam.

Well there are exceptions to every generalization. There where boys that went over and tried to prevent a country from falling into a communist prison state, where opponents to the state where forced to flee, sent to "reeducation camps" or killed.

Unfortunately they couldn't do that because of the hippies back home. The sad part is that those same hippies are trying to make Iraq into another Vietnam by failing to support the troops and failing to give them the materials and the support they need.

How many troops will Cindy Sheehan kill because they won't have the ammo, or the equipment or the support they need?
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AvObserver
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:10 pm

"What I will say, however, two things. One, this anti-war movement is nothing more than the same old, green haired, tree-hugging, pot-smoking, orgy loving lefties that have had nothing to do since the early 1970's.

And two, why were there no more "pro-war" people there? I don't know, but I feel that it probably has something to do with the fact that they have jobs to go to, and just can't travel around the country on some Partridge Family bus tour.

Enough said. I will not discuss this lame Anti-American again"

GuitrThree, you and L-188 seem to imply BOTH this war AND the Vietnam conflict were noble causes and take a bunch of cheap shots at the lifestyles of those who tried and are trying to bring those pointless abuses of foreign policy to a halt. Vietnam and Iraq aren't the same but similar flawed philosophies for global intervention underlie both campaigns. You can't make a noble cause out of an effort that accomplishes nothing, as the Vietnam debacle showed and as the current Iraq mess seems to be showing. In the earlier supposed crusade against "communism", and the Korean one before it, the government essentially asked our soldiers to fight with one hand tied behind our backs. Even if suppressing the Red North was laudible, NOT giving our forces the proper resources to decisively win such a war was criminal. Our troops in Iraq are similarly deprived, even if the nature of the wars and the strategies used to fight them differ. To simply sling mud at vocal 'hippie' liberals doesn't address the main issue that fighting certain wars makes no sense. Korea and Vietnam certainly made no sense; both U.S. campaigns failed. And with the current Administration's stated reason for invading Iraq being subsequently debunked, even later by the President's own commission, it seems ludicrous to accept Bush's unwavering position that it does make sense. How is merely opposing a questionable war 'Anti-American'? Making this a 'conservative vs. liberal' thing is petty and also misplaced, insomuch as L.B.J., the Vietnam war's biggest booster, was a "tax-and-spend" democrat.

Another stellar post from you, Falcon84. At this point, a good number of conservatives are also jumping off of the 'Bush Knows All' ship of shame and boarding the ship of common sense, free of pathetic partisan infighting.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
How many troops will Cindy Sheehan kill because they won't have the ammo, or the equipment or the support they need?

I don't equate "end the war" with "don't support the troops", and don't believe Cindy Sheehan has proposed that either. Maybe you could offer some of her positions on where she's stated that the troops shouldn't have ammo, equipment or other support. I looked ... couldn't find any.
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srbmod
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:33 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Unfortunately they couldn't do that because of the hippies back home. The sad part is that those same hippies are trying to make Iraq into another Vietnam by failing to support the troops and failing to give them the materials and the support they need.

The anti-war rally in D.C. on Saturday was closely linked to the the Impeach Bush people. This rally was more of an indictment of the President and his Administration more than of the war itself. And where was Dubya at during this? In Texas trying to make himself look like he's in charge with the the Hurricane Rita recovery efforts by being there as the storm was hitting the state. Had it been hitting anywhere other than Texas, he probably still would have been in Texas hanging out at the ranch.

To say that folks who are against the war don't support our troops is dead wrong. They support the troops, just not their Commander In Chief. The nearly 2000 US troops that have been killed in Iraq is that many too many. Much like in Vietnam, our forces were committed based on lies. While in Vietnam we had a small number of troops serving in an advisory role, it took a supposed "incident" to cause LBJ to send hundreds of thousands of troops over there, killing over 50,000 of them. And when South Vietnam fell in 1975, it wasn't the end of the world, the domino theory proved incorrect. When we were in Vietnam, that country was in the middle of a civil war. In Iraq, we're the ones who have started a civil war in the country. As proven by the various factions in the gov't in Iraq, it's only a matter of time before the country erupts in civil war. The insurgency in Iraq is really the precursor to civil war.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
How do we "end the war"...and what happens to Iraq?

Unfortunately, there is no way to end the war without looking like we did after Vietnam. There is no graceful way to exit Iraq. Iraq is a powder keg, and to give Saddam Hussein some credit, he managed to keep the factions at bay, while not through the most convential and honorable means, but he kept them under his thumb. Much like Yugoslavia in the Post-Tito era, there is a power vacuum in Iraq and eventually this will led to all out civil war.
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:43 pm

Reading the same tired, lame, stale drivel from L-188 and CatGut3, I'm comforted by one fact: their blind allegiance to the war and Mr. Bush are making them minorities in the country now, out of step with what Americans are thinking, and out of step with what Americans want.

It really makes them a sad sight. Like I said, I don't agree that we need to get out, but I also find it appalling, disgusting and so removed from reality that anyone who disagrees with the war, or who wants to pull out the troops, are labled "anti-American", by the likes of GuitrThree, or "traitors" by these war love-in protesters. Neither is true. They're the big lie, and speak with complete dishonor. I don't get angry at them for that-I pity them.
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soyuzavia
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:08 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Unfortunately they couldn't do that because of the hippies back home. The sad part is that those same hippies are trying to make Iraq into another Vietnam by failing to support the troops and failing to give them the materials and the support they need.

Riiiiiight. Blame the hippies. The funny thing is Vietnam and Iraq are identical. And it isn't the hippies who made it that way, but it was the US government. Both Vietnam and Iraq are places that the US had no right to be in the first place without general UN membership concensus, and because the US was itching to pick a fight, both wars were started based on outright lies.

And you know the worst part? That my own country sent our citizens to die because your government can't mind its own f'ing business.

I "pray" for the day that we in this country get a government, which when asked to send our citizens off to a country where we have no right to be, tells the US, uncategorically, to go fuck itself.

Unfortunately, we had this opportunity last year, and only now is the public seeing what could (and should) have been.

So don't blame the hippies -- blame the self righteous arseholes in Washington for what is happening -- it's their fuck up and they hold 110% responsibility.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:20 pm

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 16):
Both Vietnam and Iraq are places that the US had no right to be in the first place without general UN membership concensus

You really should read your history there, bud. The U.S. was invited into Vietnam by Ho Chi Minh himself after WWII, to help fend off recolonization by the French, but we changed sides when he developed communist leanings, then the French up and left town after Dien Bien Phu, leaving a mess behind for everyone else to clean up.

There's certainly a lot more to the story, but it's not like the U.S. just decided to sail over and start aiming mortars at Hanoi.
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Falcon84
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:22 pm

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 16):
The funny thing is Vietnam and Iraq are identical.

They're not identical at all. The U.S. entered a conflict in Vietnam that had been going on, literally, since the end of WWII. The war, in case you forgot or didn't know, was started by France, and not the U.S. We entered it during the period where we felt we needed to "contain" communism.

So they're not alike in how they started or in how they were prosecuted. The COULD end up being alike in the political fallout that happens during and afterwards. But the wars themselves have little in common.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 16):
Both Vietnam and Iraq are places that the US had no right to be in the first place without general UN membership concensus

The U.S. does NOT have to rely on the UN. In Iraq, it would have been far, far better only to go to war with UN backing, and you are correct, Bush was just itching to start a fight in Iraq. Well, he got more than he bargained for. But the U.S., as a soverign power, does not have to get UN permission, technically speaking, for anything.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 16):
So don't blame the hippies -- blame the self righteous arseholes in Washington for what is happening -- it's their fuck up and they hold 110% responsibility.

On that line, we're in agreement. L-188 is still stuck in the 60's when it comes to his view on government and those who dissent with it on war policy. Too bad for him.
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jaysit
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
"Cindy Sheehan and her Security Detail "

Given the vitriol that I heard being spewed at her, and several attempts by those on the loony right to physically attack and intimidate her in public (and private), I suspect she needs it. In any case, from what I saw this weekend, her "security detail" consisted of 2 female friends and one burly man (also apparently a friend).

Which makes me wonder. Where were all the A.net right wing supporters of this war?

I guess they were busy supporting the troops while watching Saturday morning cartoons.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
How do we "end the war"...and what happens to Iraq?

I thought the war ended when Bush said "Mission Accomplished?"
But since even an uber Bush lover like you has accepted the truth that it isn't over, Bush must be fumbling for some new version of reality (but isn't he always?). Well, the truth is that we can't end this war now. We're stuck there for a very long time, irrespective of who wins in 2006 or 2008. In any case, since you are so concerned about what will happen to Iraq, I do hope that ou will sign up for active duty there. Beats what you do now, right?

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 5):
What I will say, however, two things. One, this anti-war movement is nothing more than the same old, green haired, tree-hugging, pot-smoking, orgy loving lefties that have had nothing to do since the early 1970's.

LOL.
Now since there over 75% of the American populace is against the war, I guess that's about 220 million people.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 5):
And two, why were there no more "pro-war" people there? I don't know, but I feel that it probably has something to do with the fact that they have jobs to go to, and just can't travel around the country on some Partridge Family bus tour.

On a Saturday and Sunday? LOL.

I think it just goes to show that the "pro-war" people couldn't basically care less as long as someone else is getting killed. Or, perhaps, they don't make enough money to afford the air fare to DC; or that the price of gas is so high that driving a pickup truck with a gunrack to DC is a very expensive proposition.

Or maybe, just maybe...there just aren't that many out there who give a damn.
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texan
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
How many troops will Cindy Sheehan kill because they won't have the ammo, or the equipment or the support they need?

I was wondering why the troops didn't have enough ammo and armor! Thanks for the info, L-188. I'll make sure to write a letter to Sheehan and tell her to get the US Congress to appropriate enough funds to adequately supply our soldiers, since apparently she is the one in charge of doing that. Good to know...

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:35 pm

So, now, according to L-188, Cindy Sheehan is at fault for the lack of equipment our troops have? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

Just another fob to let George W. Bush off the hook. Now I've heard it all. What a pathetic excuse that is, L-188. I didn't know Mrs. Sheehan held the purse strings to the Pentagon. Our bad.

Unbelievable.
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jaysit
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:48 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
How many troops will Cindy Sheehan kill because they won't have the ammo, or the equipment or the support they need?

I thought those were Rummy's failings.
You know, the Sec of Defense, that same guy who thought we could win this war in 4 days with a small group of soldiers...

What else will you be blaming on Cindy Sheehan? Our federal deficit? The price of gas? The lame federal response by Bush's goons to Katrina?

I guess the day's of blaming Clinton's bj's are over. The right has found its new punching bag.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ual777
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:55 pm

Why does everyone get so worked up over this? The war is what it is and it will run its course by 2008. Everyone looks at it differently. All I will say is this, as a former serviceman who has seen his friends go to places like Fallujah, Ramali, and Baghdad, I will say this....go talk to someone who has actually been there to find out what is going on in Iraq.

It is really easy for everyone to say, oh our troops don't have this, oh our troops don't have that and it's Bush's fault. NO IT IS NOT. It is the fault of Clinton, and the American public. Clinton GUTTED the military in the 1990's to the point of it making my stomach sick. I am politically neutral, but I to this day fail to understand why democratic presidents think they can gut the U.S. military, then send an unsupported force into hostile territory and win....Iran-failure, Somalia-failure.....the list goes on and on.....

In order to win a war you need 3 things. 1. Air power 2. better equipent and training. 3. Fortitude.

If we left now, what have the 1,900 servicemen and women died for? What about the appx. 10,000 that are missing legs or arms or have nerve damage? What will YOU say to THEM. "Im sorry you had your leg blown off, and your wife was too horrified by your appearance so she left you when you came back....and BTW your sacrifice was for NOTHING?"

At least a murderer is gone, at least the spark of change has the chance to take hold in one of the most brutal regions of the world. These are things worth fighting for.

Sheehan is dishonoring her son with what she is doing. If I was ever killed in combat, I would never forgive my mother for being so stupid.

In closing....do I like GW, no. He is out of touch. Do I support the war in Iraq? Kind-of... Do I think we should pull out now and let it digress to its former state thus negating the sacrifices and deaths of thousands? No....and while this may seem harsh, in my mind, anyone who thinks that we should IS not supportive of our troops and obviously doesn't know anything about the battlefield.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
Why does everyone get so worked up over this?

Gee, I don't know: 2000 Americans, having died for absolutely nothing will make some feel that way. Way to downplay their deaths, dude.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
The war is what it is and it will run its course by 2008

And you have some kind of insider information on that? Here's the problem: Bush has said our troops stay their till the job is done. If he pulls them out before the '08 election, to score points at home, and Iraq ends up in a civil war, then is it just another lie by him? He's put it on record: we stay till Iraq can take care of itself. If he pulls them out beforehand, and Iraq goes to pieces, he's cutting his party's political throat.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
It is really easy for everyone to say, oh our troops don't have this, oh our troops don't have that and it's Bush's fault.

It is his fault. He started the war. Why can't YOU see that?

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
Clinton GUTTED the military in the 1990's to the point of it making my stomach sick

Ah, I knew we'd get around to blaming Clinton. It's the only game in town for the GOP. Clinton hasn't been in office for over 4 years. Time to stick the bottom line with the man in the Oval Office now, not the one who was there 4 years ago. You're just another Bush apologist.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
I am politically neutral,

Pardon me while I laugh my ass off at that one.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
At least a murderer is gone

Not what the war was about, bucko. It was about weapons that didn't exist, and close to 2000 Americans have died over that falsehood.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
These are things worth fighting for.

No, it's not-IT'S NOT OUR FUCKING BUSINESS WHAT KIND OF GOVERNEMENT ANY OTHER NATIONS HAS, EXCEPT OUR OWN! It's not WORTH 2000 young Americans dying, so we can force down the throats of someone else OUR IDEALS. We have NO RIGHT to do that. This war isn't about my freedoms, and so it isn't worth the price, although, now, stay we must.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, that's one thing-a friend asked for our help to throw out an aggressor. We did that, honorably. But this? Started under false pretenses; started by shitting on the rest of the world because they didn't agree with us; then our president calling it OVER on the deck of an Aircraft carrier 2 years ago. Support THAT? Never.

We do NOT have the right to tell others how to live, UAL777. Just as we would resent others doing that to us. What part of that do you not get?

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
Sheehan is dishonoring her son with what she is doing.

That's not for you to decide. And you say you're neutral. Grow a pair, and admit the truth. She's doing, whether you, or anyone else likes it or not, what she thinks is best to honor her son. You can STFU and not speak for her, my friend.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
If I was ever killed in combat, I would never forgive my mother for being so stupid.

How nice of you. Stick to speaking for your parents' then, not someone else's.
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jaysit
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
It is really easy for everyone to say, oh our troops don't have this, oh our troops don't have that and it's Bush's fault. NO IT IS NOT. It is the fault of Clinton, and the American public.

LOL.

Now, I've really heard it all.

Hon, it was Bill Clinton's toned down military that thrashed the Serbians and then thrashed the Taliban in 2001 (prior to GWB's $5 billion supplemental appropriation for the 2001 defense budget, which in any case is only 2% of the overall military budge).

Neither the GOP controlled Congress, nor Bill Clinton, nor the American public was expecting that Dubya would concoct a war out of thin air and deplay 200,000 Americans in Iraq. Post cold war concerns - based on the military's own studies - warranted a tighter and leaner military. Unfortunately, occupations of hostile lands for 100 years don't work with that philosophy in mind.
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jaysit
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
All I will say is this, as a former serviceman who has seen his friends go to places like Fallujah, Ramali, and Baghdad, I will say this....go talk to someone who has actually been there to find out what is going on in Iraq.

Actually, some of us did our time when he had to (15 years ago), and we too have friends who got stuck in places like Fallujah and Ramallah, and the opinions I hear vary from "we're stuck here, so lets finish the job" to "WTF? Why are we even here?".

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
At least a murderer is gone, at least the spark of change has the chance to take hold in one of the most brutal regions of the world. These are things worth fighting for.

So, is that the official line now? That we went to save the poor Iraqis from Saddam Hussein? Will we be attacking Iran and Saudi Arabia to save them from their dictatorial regimes? How about Pakistan? Turkmenistan? Liberia? North Korea?

In any case, Hussein may be gone, but in the place of one murderer, we now have 100,000 murderers.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
11Bravo
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
I will say this....go talk to someone who has actually been there to find out what is going on in Iraq.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. I can tell you from my personal experiences in Panama and the Gulf War that the “view from the front” is very myopic. Soldiers in theater have a very “operational” viewpoint and are usually unaware of the larger strategic and political context. There are countless examples in history of “winning the battle, but losing the war” because decisive strategic and political goals were not accomplished and that is precisely the situation we have in Iraq.

We have gotten ourselves into a classic situation in Iraq where we are attempting to apply a military solution to what is fundamentally not a military problem anymore. We have failed to anticipate and address the underlying cultural and political dynamics in Iraq, and we continue look for military solutions where there are none.

I believe we will lose the Iraq War. Actually, I think we already have. We had a window of opportunity during the first six to twelve months of this conflict to contain and prevent the Sunni insurgency and we failed to do that primarily because of inadequate force levels. I don’t think we can put that genie back in the bottle. In my view, this is now a question of how best to remove our forces while minimizing the damage and instability that will result.
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halls120
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
Ms. Sheehan's obsession and some of her off the wall remarks have turned many Americans from her cause and the 'so called liberal media' in the USA. This president will not and cannot admit he and staff made a huge mistake. Worse, to withdraw now will make our withdrawal in Vietnam seem trival in comparison and appear to be a surrender to the terroist sub-groups in the Islamic world by what is supposed to be the 'only world superpower' wounding itself badly.

Even the Washington Post has editorialized that to do what the protestors call for - immediate return of the troops - would be a very bad idea.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I'll say this . . what I thought ironically funny was the photo in the Anchorage Daily News this morning . ..

"Cindy Sheehan and her Security Detail "

Proof positive she's been whored out to what ver cause will give her ear.

Ah, give her a break. She's just looking for her 15 minutes of fame and a future book deal.  Wink

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 5):
"George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans and Iraq, and excuse his self from power."

This statement shows what a ridiculous spokesperson Ms. Sheehan has become. Memo to war opponents - find a better mouthpiece, or risk losing all credibility.

Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
Because I actually question what the scum in Washington tell me to believe I am bringing about the downfall of society? Excuse me, but when you stop questioning the government and follow the leaders blindly, you are helping transform this nation from a Republic/representative democracy into an oligarchy or dictatorship.

Agree completely. Sessions is an idiot to say what he did. Sorta balances out Ms. Sheehan, I guess.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
So let's say the anti-war protesters are right, and "we end the war".

How do we "end the war"...and what happens to Iraq?

Best I can tell, their plan is to leave Iraq immediately, and let the chips fall where they may. A pretty stupid and myopic plan, of course, but I doubt they care.

I should take this opportunity to state that I initially thought the war wasn't such a great idea. Not because I didn't think Saddam wasn't evil, and that he might have/was pursuing WMD's. I believed then that there was a good chance he did, and he would use them, and the the world is better off without him. I thought the war was a bad idea because I suspected the while the Pentagon knew how it was going to conquer the country, I didn't think they had a well-developed plan for the aftermath. Which has proven to be the case.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
Why does everyone get so worked up over this? The war is what it is and it will run its course by 2008.

Of course it will. And as I have long predicted, large numbers of US troops will be withdrawn by November 2006.....

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
Sheehan is dishonoring her son with what she is doing. If I was ever killed in combat, I would never forgive my mother for being so stupid.

from what I've read, most of her immediate family has rejected her stance as well.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
Not what the war was about, bucko. It was about weapons that didn't exist, and close to 2000 Americans have died over that falsehood.

While we now know that the WMD's didn't exist - or were successfully whisked off to Syria - a large number of people on both sides of the aisle believed that Hussein did at one point have WMD's. Your seem to be suggesting that Bush knew there were no WMDs beforehand. If he did, I'd be leading the impeachment charge. But there is no evidence that he intentionally misled Congress and the American people in this regard, notwithstanding the left's attempt to generate it.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
IT'S NOT OUR FUCKING BUSINESS WHAT KIND OF GOVERNEMENT ANY OTHER NATIONS HAS, EXCEPT OUR OWN!

Based on your line of reasoning then, Clinton should have never sent US troops to stop the genocide in the Balkans, and we should collectively stand by and let the genocide that is happening in Africa go on. After all, it's just an internal matter, right?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MaverickM11
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
I thought the war ended when Bush said "Mission Accomplished?"

Wow it's been almost 15 minutes since you last said that.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
But since even an uber Bush lover like you has accepted the truth that it isn't over,

Since you can't post one word without making it personal....  

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
Well, the truth is that we can't end this war now. We're stuck there for a very long time, irrespective of who wins in 2006 or 2008

So what are the anti-war protesters expecting to achieve if we can't end this war?

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
In any case, since you are so concerned about what will happen to Iraq, I do hope that ou will sign up for active duty there

I know a certain Miss Gay Olympics 1972 that would be perfect! And his name rhymes with Jaysit! They could use your famed rowing skills  Silly.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
Beats what you do now, right?

What do I do now?

[Edited 2005-09-26 18:39:24]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
OttoPylit
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:36 am

Probably because people will show up in thousands to demonstrate against something that is ongoing, whereas few show up to support it, because the fact that it is ongoing shows that its needs no demonstrated support.

For instance, go and look at an abortion protest. You may see hundreds of people protesting outside a clinic against abortion, but very few(maybe double digits) counter-protesting for it. The reasoning for that is because abortion is legal for the most part, and demonstrating support for it is, well, pointless.

Same with the war protest. Thousands are protesting it because it is happening, but not many show up to support it because its pointless. Its already happening, we are already there, and its apparent we will not back out until the job is finished.

I don't understand why people just don't "GET IT."


OttoPylit
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soyuzavia
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
You really should read your history there, bud. The U.S. was invited into Vietnam by Ho Chi Minh himself after WWII, to help fend off recolonization by the French, but we changed sides when he developed communist leanings, then the French up and left town after Dien Bien Phu, leaving a mess behind for everyone else to clean up.

I know my Vietnamese/Indochina history quite well.

The only time that the US supported HCM and the Viet Minh (which he was the leader) was during WWII when they were fighting against the Japanese occupation -- they both shared this common goal at the time, even though the US knew that Ho Chi Minh was a communist -- he helped to form the French Communist Party, spent a lot of time in Moscow and also formed the Vietnamese Communist Party in China, long before WWII even happened. The US supported the creation of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam immediately after the Japanese surrender.

However, not long after, the First Indochina War started, between the Viet Minh and the French 46 to 54, and the US openly supported the French in this war.

After the French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu, the Viet Minh held all the cards at the Geneva peace talks in 54. It was agreed that the country would be partioned into North Vietnam (Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and South Vietnam (Republic of Vietnam) - the two states being separated at the 17th parallel. Also agreed to at the peace talks was that elections would be held in 56/57 and the country would be unified into a single political unit, however South Vietnam (and the US) didn't stick to the agreement because Ho Chi Minh was a popular figure in both North and South Vietnam and he would have won any elections which were held -- of course this was unthinkable for the South and US.

There was no 'peace' between the North and South, and the US was 'active' in Vietnam from 1961 onwards, especially with the National Liberation Front (NLF or Viet Cong) 'fightin' the South Vietnamese government. But the US involvement was thru the use of 'advisers' and such. It wasn't until the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" in 64 that the US entry into Vietnam became "official" (even though there was no war technical) and the Second Indochina War (also known as American War or Vietnam War) started in 66.

Of course, the Gulf of Tonkin incident is what galvanised support for US meddling in Vietnam, and we know that the entire incident was a load of horseshit, dreamed up by the Johnson administration to garner support for direct US intervention.

And this reads very similar to what happened in Iraq. Hence why I say that Vietnam and Iraq are uncanny in their parallels.
 
texan
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 25):
Neither the GOP controlled Congress, nor Bill Clinton, nor the American public was expecting that Dubya would concoct a war out of thin air and deplay 200,000 Americans in Iraq.

I did. He talked about it as Governor of Texas, he talked about it when he was a candidate, and he has always acted in an aggressive manner. The media just chose to ignore this and the majority of the public had no reason to look into past statements made by a Texas Governor.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 23):
go talk to someone who has actually been there to find out what is going on in Iraq.

I talk with two of my friends who are over there, each about once every 2-3 days. One of them took a picture that he said summed up his feelings pretty well:


And just because this is an aviation site, here is a picture of what he said is an IL-76 flying around Baghdad:


Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 31):

I know my Vietnamese/Indochina history quite well.

Yeah, you did okay. But you left out the involvement of the PRC in Vietnam, making this a completely one-sided affair. Well done you.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
IT'S NOT OUR FUCKING BUSINESS WHAT KIND OF GOVERNEMENT ANY OTHER NATIONS HAS, EXCEPT OUR OWN!

Based on your line of reasoning then, Clinton should have never sent US troops to stop the genocide in the Balkans, and we should collectively stand by and let the genocide that is happening in Africa go on. After all, it's just an internal matter, right?

WHOOSH! Right over your head. As I said, when we are ASKED to assist, as in those instances, as in '90/91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait, that's one thing. But when we force oruselves on another nation, that has not threatened us, has not warred on us, and no calls for assistance have come, it's none of our business what another government is or how it is. That's the point.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MaverickM11
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
Thousands are protesting it because it is happening, but not many show up to support it because its pointless.

Similar to the WTO and World Bank protests all over the world...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 36):
I am not a Bush apologist you fool, I am a former Marine

You're the fool, friend. You play the blame game and lay the blame everywhere but where it belongs, on the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 36):
Why do you disrespect me by calling me bucko? You rant and rave, rant and rave and disrespect me so therefore you are showing what kind of true immature moron you really are. And you are 36-45? Grow up scumbag.

Yes, some honorable Marine, friend. If you can't handle the word "bucko" I don't want a gun in your hands, dude.

And I dont' need to report anything, Marine, because I can handle the now and again flame thrown at me. You, obviously, cannot. That's your problem.

Here's how I see it: my mind and my heart rages at the necessity of continuing this war. It should NEVER have started in the first place, and a lot of fine young Americans would be alive today, if it weren't for an ill-conceived, ill-planned policy when it comes to this war. Our leaders have put us on a virtually no-win situation, and the ONLY reason we need to stay, in my view, is NOT for my freedom, NOT to stop terrorism, but as a debt of honor to the people of Iraq, who's country we violated and invaded without just cause.

We HAVE to stay-we agree on that-but I think our reasons for seeing the need to stay, are totally different.
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AeroWesty
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 36):
I am not a Bush apologist you fool, I am a former Marine, and I am telling it as I have seen from my experiances in the Marines.

Just as a point of clarity here, you're arguing what Clinton did to the armed forces first hand as a former Marine, but you're in the 16-20 age group? You wouldn't have even been old enough to enlist when Clinton was president. Is there something I'm not understanding?
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Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:21 am

AeroWesty, I seldom check the information on a member, but maybe our "Marine" would care to explain his illegal enlistment at the age of 10 when Clinton was in office.  Silly
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 34):
WHOOSH! Right over your head. As I said, when we are ASKED to assist, as in those instances, as in '90/91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait, that's one thing. But when we force oruselves on another nation, that has not threatened us, has not warred on us, and no calls for assistance have come, it's none of our business what another government is or how it is. That's the point.

LOL, I understood your point quite clearly. That you missed mine - or more probably avoided it - speaks volumes.

So, witnessing genocide, we stand aside because we haven't been invited in?
And I'm not saying this was the case in Iraq.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Superfly
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:35 am

Do people actually show up to protest protesters?
What a bunch of loosers!
Did faux news exaggerate the amount of war mongers that showed up?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:35 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
So, witnessing genocide, we stand aside because we haven't been invited in?

Should I bring up half of Africa to your attention, Halls?

'Nuff said.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 38):
Just as a point of clarity here, you're arguing what Clinton did to the armed forces first hand as a former Marine, but you're in the 16-20 age group? You wouldn't have even been old enough to enlist when Clinton was president. Is there something I'm not understanding?



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
AeroWesty, I seldom check the information on a member, but maybe our "Marine" would care to explain his illegal enlistment at the age of 10 when Clinton was in office.

For the record. I enlisted when I was 17 and was medically discharged in March. However, if any of you actually studied what happened, many fine officers who could have been career, were RIFed (Reduction in Force) by the military budget cuts. The loss we suffered in personnel and in procurement are now seen as our armed services are stretched to the breaking point in Iraq, and soldiers(especially some reserve units) are facing a brutal rotation schedule. Much of the equipment the USMC uses is left over from the Regan era because until recently, they have simply lacked the funding.

Please do not automatically assume since I am 19 years old I do not know what I am talking about. I come from a military family and served my country with pride. I am speaking from what I have seen myself, read in reports, and heard from older Marines.

As for Bush, I think he is out of touch with America and I am looking forward to 2008. I very well may vote democrat as long as it is not an extreme canidate.

As for Iraq, I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. Many have died, but SOME good is coming out of it. To quit now would make the 1,900 deaths for NOTHING. And I simply cannot condone something like that with my brothers in arms. The thought of that makes my stomach churn.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:42 am

Dude, why does your profile say you're 16-20? Didn't graduate or something? You will automatically, and rightfully, get suspicion, like B744F does, when you don't show the correct age group. Maybe you should fix it, Marine.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 43):
Please do not automatically assume since I am 19 years old I do not know what I am talking about.

You mean, like YOU assumed that since I was never in the miltary, I don't know, to quote you "JACK SHIT"? Take your own advice, bucko.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 43):
Many have died, but SOME good is coming out of it.

NOTHING good is coming out of it. 2000 Americans dead, over a suspect war is not good; making even more Arabs and Muslims lifelong enemies of the U.S. is not good. Setting up Iraq to eventually having an Islamic Republic that hates us as much as Iran, is not good.

The only "good" out of it is when it's architecht goes the hell back to Crawford, Texas in a few years, and leaves the rest of the world along.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Superfly
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 43):
I am looking forward to 2008. I very well may vote democrat as long as it is not an extreme canidate.

Glad to hear that.
Keep in mind, Senator Clinton is considered a moderate based on he voting record. Glad to hear that she could attract a swing voter like yourself if she decides to run.  Smile
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ual777
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RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
Dude, why does your profile say you're 16-20? Didn't graduate or something? You will automatically, and rightfully, get suspicion, like B744F does, when you don't show the correct age group. Maybe you should fix it, Marine.

I am 19 and 6 months now. I did graduate, got a 30 on my ACT, a 97 on my ASFAB, and am currently completing my bachelor's at ERAU. You should learn to add.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
You mean, like YOU assumed that since I was never in the miltary, I don't know, to quote you "JACK SHIT"? Take your own advice, bucko.

I never said you weren't. You are just making statements that are ascinine. You blame everything squarely on Bush. Until you can state to me otherwise that you know something about military procurement, I will continue to say you do not know what you are talking about, because your reasoning simply does not make sense in accordance to what we are discussing.

Oh, and BTW, I can take the heat, I guess I just try to treat everyone with respect and not with condesending names such as "bucko" and tell people to "STFU". Now I do realize I i bit on the bait and started name calling out of anger, so I would now like to apologize to everyone on the board and to you for this. Im sorry I let my mouth get the best of me.

That aside, you are still wrong about military procurement and what I am talking about. However I can see that you are content staring at the military through a warped sense of perception and that it is probably useless for me to try to explain it to you because you obviously do not listen.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
NOTHING good is coming out of it. 2000 Americans dead, over a suspect war is not good; making even more Arabs and Muslims lifelong enemies of the U.S. is not good. Setting up Iraq to eventually having an Islamic Republic that hates us as much as Iran, is not good.

The key is winning the children. Also, all the deaths now are from car-bombings which last time I recalled, was not a tactic of the U.S. armed services.

Good day, SIR
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
NOTHING good is coming out of it.

I disagree. Combat pay, housing allowance (and not having a place in the States), no opportunity to spend ANY money, and ALL this while paying ZERO taxes..... Big grin
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Glad to hear that.
Keep in mind, Senator Clinton is considered a moderate based on he voting record. Glad to hear that she could attract a swing voter like yourself if she decides to run

I have been watching her closely, but I have a natural distrust of all politicians. I am just going to wait until the primaries and see whos out and running.

Its really just scary how polarized this country is becoming and it seems with every passing day that it gets worse. My greatest fear is that our society is in an unpreventable downslide from which it won't recover until its too late.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 36):
I am a former Marine, and I am telling it as I have seen from my experiances in the Marines.



Quoting UAL777 (Reply 43):
For the record. I enlisted when I was 17



Quoting UAL777 (Reply 43):
I am speaking from what I have seen myself, read in reports, and heard from older Marines.

So for the record, your knowledge of what Clinton did to the armed forces came from hearsay and "reports" you've read along the way, not from first hand experience at the time as you gave the impression of earlier. Thanks for the clarification.

Carry on.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: A Few Hundred Turn Out For War Love-In

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 46):
I am 19 and 6 months now. I did graduate, got a 30 on my ACT, a 97 on my ASFAB, and am currently completing my bachelor's at ERAU. You should learn to add.

Not a matter of addition, Marine-your profile states your age between 16-20. Maybe update it, and you'll get no further grief from me.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 46):
I never said you weren't.

Actually you did: "What do you know about military procurement, tactics, morale, future personnel trends, or equipment? JACK SHIT."

What part of that did you forget. Enough said on that account.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 46):
You blame everything squarely on Bush.

Remember that famous saying, "The Buck Stops Here". You're damn right I'm blaming Bush. He started the war. He salivated over it as far back as when he was running for President, dude. He sent us there, full well knowing what kind of military he did/did not have. Oh, and that depleted military you bitch about did an excellent job in Afghanistan, that I recall.

And the problem wasn't what Clinton had done to it-it was the fact that "Dumbsfeld", as my esteemed conservative friend ANCFlyer calls him, and guys like Cheney and gals like Rice, underestimated the amount of force-in-theater that was going to be needed to win. Hell, we threw twice as many troops into getting Iraq out of Kuwait in '91, than we did in trying to occupy the nation of Iraq. Dumb idea, and it stops at the top-with the Commander-in-Chief.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 46):
Now I do realize I i bit on the bait and started name calling out of anger, so I would now like to apologize to everyone on the board and to you for this. Im sorry I let my mouth get the best of me.

Takes a man to admit that. Accepted graciously. I said a few things out of anger, mostly at the necessity of us having to do what we're doing in Iraq, which we, in my estimation, should NEVER have been done.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 46):
The key is winning the children.

Since we've orphaned so many of them, I doubt we've made many friends, UAL777. We lost them the day we invaded.

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 47):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
NOTHING good is coming out of it.

I disagree. Combat pay, housing allowance (and not having a place in the States), no opportunity to spend ANY money, and ALL this while paying ZERO taxes.....

I'll take it as a joke, but it's a pretty sleazy one.
Work Right, Fly Hard

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