AeroWesty
Topic Author
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Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:00 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9492624/

FORT HOOD, Texas - Army Pfc. Lynndie England, whose smiling poses in photos of detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib made her the face of the scandal, was convicted Monday by a military jury on all but one of the seven counts she faced.

England, 22, was found guilty of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count.


I wonder what the conditions are in the brig these days?
International Homo of Mystery
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:14 am

Don't you just love scape goats?
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:22 am

Of course she deserves a penalty but she is only a very stupid naive girl. The real guilty people are her superiors before all the Commander in Chief: GWB.
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 2):
The real guilty people are her superiors before all the Commander in Chief: GWB.

I am certail Bush did not order or KNOW about these things until after they happened.... So stop your bush bashing..

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
I wonder what the conditions are in the brig these days?

I bet she won't get it as good as a lot of war prisoners get it.. With the geneva convention and treatment of prisioners and stuff, that ONLY the US seems to follow (most of the time) they get it better then people who were used by the superiors..

She's in for a tough time, I feel sorry for her..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 1):
Don't you just love scape goats?

Boy, do you and I agree on that one, Captain. Not that she isn't guilty of something, but as ANCFlyer noted over and over, the little peons don't take a dump without permission from above. Someone of higher rank is hiding behind these scapegoats.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 3):
I am certail Bush did not order or KNOW about these things until after they happened.... So stop your bush bashing..

I agree with you Chris-to a point. I don't think Bush knew about this when it happened, but I think Rumsfeld and Gonzalez did, and they're just as guilty as Lyddie. But in the end, ultimately, the C-in-C IS responsible, and, so, to an extent, it lays on Bush's desk. It's his war, after all.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 3):
She's in for a tough time, I feel sorry for her..

I don't. Orders or not, she has to lie in the bed she made. No pity here.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
seb146
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:56 am

My question is the same as everyone elses: What about the higer-ups that told her it was okay to do that to prisoners? Oh, that's right.... they get promoted....

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 3):
With the geneva convention and treatment of prisioners and stuff, that ONLY the US seems to follow

Funniest thing I've read since I joined A.Net

Guantanamo anyone?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:15 am

When are the trials for the many other of her fellow military people, officers and in the Pentagon who encouraged or turned a blind eye to the treatment of some prisioners there. Maybe some of them could be brought up on war crimes or international human rights violations.
 
slider
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:19 am

She won't get sent up the river--after all, America's little favorite two-bagger sweetheart is a Mom now!!!

Very seldom reported, the reason the trial and all that was put on hold was so she could give birth.

Guess who the father is?

Yup. Spc. Charles Graner. They won't send both parents up the river. Although proper military justice would demand it. I feel sorry for that kid.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 3):
Quoting ZRH (Reply 2):
The real guilty people are her superiors before all the Commander in Chief: GWB.

I am certail Bush did not order or KNOW about these things until after they happened.... So stop your bush bashing..

 checkmark  Assinine comment.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
but as ANCFlyer noted over and over, the little peons don't take a dump without permission from above. Someone of higher rank is hiding behind these scapegoats.

Exactly . . . as always happens . . . the widget pays the price . . . be it Staff Sergeant Grainer or PFC England. Both are guilty, I agree, but both acted under orders . . . period. And whomever issued those orders is taking a walk, free and clear.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
Oh, that's right.... they get promoted....

Not exactly . . . the Brigadier General that "commanded" Abu Ghraib has been summarily reduced in rank to Colonel and drummed out of the service. I made specific mention of her because her statement that "although I was the commander of this facility there were some places I was told I could not go" is pure bullshit. As the commander - or Command Sergeant Major - of anyplace, I'll be damned if I'm going to be told "I can't go anywhere" in my command sphere of influence. That won't settle with me not for an instant. She knew, and she did nothing except let her people take the fall. She deserves no better than Grainer or England . . . but she's not doing any jail time. What a waste.

Don't even get me started on Dumsfeld . . . I also believe he knew . . . if he didn't specifically authorize this action, he didn't stop it - so that's tacit acknowledgement and permission.

Nuf Said . . . for now.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
airlinelover
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):

Funniest thing I've read since I joined A.Net

Guantanamo anyone?

LOOK EVERYONE!! A N00B!!!!

I guess in Portugal you don't have access to some of the reports we do in the states describing how much better a lot of the terrorist prisoners have it then a lot of law-abiding US citizens... Medical care, food, clothes.. All for free becuase they are terrorists who got caught..

I DO feel that torture and HARSHER treatment SHOULD be instituted on some prisoners, depending on the crime... Theft? No.. TERRORISM- HELL YES..

Pyrex- do your research before coming out with drivel like that.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
tbar220
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 10):
I DO feel that torture and HARSHER treatment SHOULD be instituted on some prisoners, depending on the crime... Theft? No.. TERRORISM- HELL YES..

Alberto Gonzalez, meet Airlinelover...
NO URLS in signature
 
backfire
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 1):
Don't you just love scape goats?

"I was only following orders"?

Didn't work at Nuremberg, don't see why it should work here.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4044
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:44 am

I don't even know what a N00B is, but somehow I don't think I want to.

What is so funny in here is your hollier-than-thou attitude about the Geneva Convention (the "poor us, we're the only ones playing by the rules" drivel).

Newsflash for you: no country, ever since that piece of paper was signed, has ever followed the Geneva Convention. You can argue that there are different levels of infringment but you cannot state that you're the only ones following it, or even that you are the only ones who ever tried.

Just because some of your prisons are crap that doesn't mean alleged (boy, I hate that word) terrorists should get worst. And by the way, most of the people who enter Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo get out without any conviction (and ocasionally in a body bag).

Please, don't pretend like your the offended virgin, it doesn't suit you. It may be debatable if ferrying suspects for torture-friendly, freedom-unfriendly countries is correct but if what your doing in Gitmo is so correct why does it have to be done in No Man's Land away from the jurisdiction of every Court in the world?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:08 am

This is all much ado about nothing. The shame is that she is being made a scapegoat. I really don’t care what goes on in Abu Garib or Gitmo. They are not insurgents or freedom fighters. They where not locked up for shooting spitballs. These are mass murderers we are talking about.

Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11,
2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally
murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our
nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible,
burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when
an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?

Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in
Saudi Arabia.

I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for
hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling,
slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and
fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First
Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead
of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an
Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have
been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest
assured that I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not
to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank
that I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat,
and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is
complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely
believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.

By Pam Foster
 
JeepBoy
Posts: 256
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
By Pam Foster

A true patriot if ever there was..

jb

mame a mime
*yay*
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:14 am

Patriotism has nothing to do with it Jeepboy.

1. This is much ado about nothing. Torture and cohersion are two different things. There are High School Footbal teams and Fraternaties that do worse than what she did.

2. The prisoners are not POWs. Many of them have/had information that could result in innocent civilians and coalition soldiers getting killed. If someone has to humiliate one of these murderers so that they may get information that will save innocent lives I am all for the humiliation taking place.
 
david b.
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:33 am

You don't care about your priests raping little boys either do you. Rest assure you don't care.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
cfalk
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
I wonder what the conditions are in the brig these days?

I'll make a wager she gets pregnant again in jail.

She's a good poster child for forced sterilization.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
stall
Posts: 254
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RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:38 pm

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
These are mass murderers we are talking about

Bring forward solid evidences !

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally
murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our
nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

True but other nations has gone through terrorist attack but these nations didn't create prisons where civilian laws were systematicaly breached.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have
been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest
assured that I don't care.

This exact attitude toward muslam prisoners will create the 'terrorist/ freedom fighter' (depending on which side you are) that will hit back the USA

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 16):
The prisoners are not POWs

If they aren't POW they are civilians, if they are civilians they have got rights.
Flying is fun
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:35 pm

Sorry Stall, but these are not common criminals we are dealing with. They where for the most part captured on the battlefield, armed and in civilian clothes. They where either shooting at our soldiers or attempting to murder innocent civilians. By their actions they are neither criminals or POWs. In Afghanistan and Iraq their very actions in the situations that they where in on the battlefield is solid evidence enough for them to be held as they are.

"True but other nations has gone through terrorist attack but these nations didn't create prisons where civilian laws were systematicaly breached."

And they continue to do so. Perhaps it is time to stop treating terrorists as civilians.

"This exact attitude toward muslam prisoners will create the 'terrorist/ freedom fighter' (depending on which side you are) that will hit back the USA"

Then you are a fool if you truly believe this. The muslim terrorists have been murdering and blowing up things long before anyone heard of Abu or Gitmo. If anything the one thing they do understand is force.

"If they aren't POW they are civilians, if they are civilians they have got rights."

See first paragraph. By their very actions they are neither. In fact not being POWs is actually good for them since according to international law, armed soldiers caught out of uniform are spies, and spies can be legally executed according to international law..
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:52 pm

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 10):
I DO feel that torture and HARSHER treatment SHOULD be instituted on some prisoners, depending on the crime... Theft? No.. TERRORISM- HELL YES..

You let your emotins run free Chris. Two considerations-and you're not considering them:

1. If we stoop to such degrading behavior, how are we any better than these terrorist you scream about? Aren't we SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER, and represent something better, than those scumbags?

2. You do that, and in any combat situation, be it aganst another nation or terrorists, it's open torture season on American servicemen and women.

So for you to advocate torture against ANYONE is barbarianism, and only makes US look worse. So no to both.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 10):
I guess in Portugal you don't have access to some of the reports we do in the states describing how much better a lot of the terrorist prisoners have it then a lot of law-abiding US citizens...

We don't get those reports either-not with our ultra-secret "elected government" hiding everything they do from the American people.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally
murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our
nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

And so you want to stoop to their level? Welcome to the Neanderthal age, Thumper. You're taking us back 10 steps, and such barbarianism cannot be condoned, whether done by Al Qaeda or the United States Armed Forces dude. Take such garbage to another nation, got it?

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when
an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?

Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

And that makes you an out-and-out racist, and, in my mind, as barbaric as those in Al Qaeda. We should care when a holy book, whether we are religious or not, is desecrated on purpose, because it only invites reprisals.

This caveman garbage that you promote is just sickening, dude, and it makes us, with what you want to do, no better than those who we're fighting. It actually makes us worse, because we supposedly know better.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
stall
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 20):
They where for the most part captured on the battlefield, armed and in civilian clothes. They where either shooting at our soldiers or attempting to murder innocent civilians.

Captured on a battlefield? On a battlefield there are only two categories: Soldiers or civilians. That's what I have been taught during my army time.
Maybe you could suggest a third category is defined in international law.
BTW could give us your definition of a terrorist. Because from what you said 'they were shooting at our soldiers' I have to consider that all civilians that fought against german troop during WWII in europe were terrorist. In fact they weren't.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 20):
Perhaps it is time to stop treating terrorists as civilians.

So they are soldier ? To which army do they belong ? To which gouvernement/ head of state do they obey ?

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 20):
If anything the one thing they do understand is force.

Give me one example where force (alone) solved definitly a terrorist problem.
Flying is fun
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:28 am

Me - "Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally
murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our
nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?"

you "And so you want to stoop to their level?"

How do you compare detaining someone under adverse conditions after they have been caught committing or planning to commit terrorist acts that if successful would kill innocent people with the premeditated murder of close to 3000 people? The two don't come close so no we are not and I do not want to stoop to their level. When you catch me writing that I think we should start deliberately targeting innocent civilians then and only then can you accuse me of stooping to their level.

You sure do have some strange and inconsistent morals. We do know better. That is why you do not see people being hung by cranes, beheaded, burned, electric shocked, etc. We do know better that is why you do not see us picking targets for maximum civilian casualties.

Fact is it is people like you who do not know better. You confuse fact with fiction and have no sense of right and wrong. Your idea is to treat this all as a minor crime is in fact disgusting. Your defense of these bastards borders on criminal since it gives them a sense of hope that perhaps we will back off if only they hold out a bit longer.

I do not expect you to get it since people like you rarely do but we can always try.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 23):
How do you compare detaining someone under adverse conditions after they have been caught committing or planning to commit terrorist acts that if successful would kill innocent people with the premeditated murder of close to 3000 people?

Because both are acts of barbarians, not human beings, which I for one am the race I subscribe to-I don't know about you.

You stoop to the level of hate, evil and the like, you're not better off than those you claim to hate so much.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 23):
You sure do have some strange and inconsistent morals.

Not strange nor inconsistent. If you treat another human being in a manner that involved torture, then you're no better in my eyes than those who kill or maim innocent human beings. You belong to the same sub-culture of barbarianism.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 23):
Fact is it is people like you who do not know better.

I do know better, and do do you I suspect. But you claim you don't so you can foster your hatred on others, and try to clear your conscience at the same time.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 10):
I DO feel that torture and HARSHER treatment SHOULD be instituted on some prisoners, depending on the crime... Theft? No.. TERRORISM- HELL YES..

That is exactly what the Nazis and Stalin did. I don't know what you consider yourself? Nazi or Communist? Ok, it is the same. Torture is NO option for a democratic and constitutional country!!

[Edited 2005-09-28 18:18:38]
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:45 am

You are right Falcon. Instead of playing loud music and making them wear panties on their heads or having them march around naked in order to get them to give up any information they may have lets just send the terrorists off to counseling, give them a 50 dollar fine and give them a stern lecture. It would be ineffective but at least we would not make people like you squeamish.

On that note, I must apologize. If hazing some terrorist doesn't make me squeamish but the thought of thousands of innocents being deliberatly killed does then call me a barbarian. Your human race is nothing I want any part of.

You are the one bringing up hate. Not me. I love enough to not ever want to see or hear another terrosist act commited again. You are only concerned that we not upset your questionable morals.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:51 am

I am against the death penalty.. but if someone decided to hang this bitch, I would remain silent...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:19 am

"I am against the death penalty.. but if someone decided to hang this bitch, I would remain silent..."

Sure freak out because she harassed some prisoners then be happy if she is executed. Talk about double standards.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 26):
You are the one bringing up hate. Not me.

Bullshit. You're the one condoning torture, not I. And funny, tell my why Ms. England was found guilty, if these aren't bad things, Thumper? They are bad things, and they go against the code of conduct of the US Armed Forces, and they go against our own traditions as a people.

Unfortunately, 9/11, having scared the shit out of some people like you, have turned some people like you into the very beasts we're fighting.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:59 am

See Falcon your problem is that you do not read. Show me where I said I condone torture? Show me where she was sent to jail for torturing prisoners. Once again since you seem to be intellectually challenged I will explain the difference between torture and hazing.

Examples of torture:
Cutting off someone's head
Hanging from wrists for extended period of time
Cutting off genitals
whipping
extended beating
electrical shocks
burning with cigarettes
cutting off tongues
crushing genitals
rape

The above are all documented things that happened on a regular basis under Saddam Husseign

Examples of prisoner hazing:
Walking prisoner naked on leash
playing load music
putting underwear on prisoners head
forcing prisoner to stand on top of box for extened periods of time
forcing prisoner to assume sexually compromising positions

These are all doumented things Lyndia England and countless fraternaties and football teams do on a regular basis.

The girl was sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

Lastly do not confuse a determination to see terrorism and terrorists eliminated by the effective use of force or any other means to be fear. It is not.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 26):
may have lets just send the terrorists

These people are most probably no terrorists but prisoners of war.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 30):
The girl was sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

Bullshit. She was sentenced for violating the code of conduct of her branch of the service.

She was sacrificed to keep the ass of some brass from facing the music.

I stand by what I say. You have no qualms if we act like barbarians in the name of fighting barbarians. I find that disgusting.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 30):
Lastly do not confuse a determination to see terrorism and terrorists eliminated by the effective use of force or any other means to be fear. It is not.

It absolutely is. You're whole thought-process on this discussion is filled with fear.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:16 am

"It absolutely is. You're whole thought-process on this discussion is filled with fear."

First you put words in my mouth, now you profess to know what is going on inside my head. Call it whatever you want. Lord knows you seem to like to make things up as you go along and ignore or misrepresent anything that does not suit your view of this subject. I will not pretend to be nearly as presumptuous as you and jump to conclusions about someone I do not know, but your writing begs the question do you always think you know what somneone is thinking?

Next time try to debate to what is being written, not by what you want the person to have said or what you think is in someone's mind.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 33):
Lord knows you seem to like to make things up as you go along and ignore or misrepresent anything that does not suit your view of this subject.

I just call them as I see them, and from what I read, I think you 1. Condon torture, and 2. Your view comes out of fear of what happened on 9/11.

Sorry, but that's how I interpret it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:34 am

Thumper1381, go find one of those bunkers built in the Cold War, some must be for sale.
Go live there, live life without fear, be happy.
Cos from what you are spouting, it's the only way you lose your fear.

You are the living, breathing example of what terrorists have always tried to achieve.
Your attitude is their victory.
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:34 am

Fair enough Falcon. You are entitled to your subjective interpretation of me. Let me give you my interpretation of you not based on what I think of you but what I have read.

You are a knee jerk liberal who has no clue as to what is really going on in the world.

Your emotions get in the way of logic.

You do not read what is being said but make things up, stretch, misinterpret or mangle the truth to suit your view.

You are a bigot who resorts to calling names (yes you where always first) and labels who paints with a rather broad brush.

You are a guilt ridden American.

Your moral compass is in need of repair.

You are intellectually challenged.

I just call them like I see them.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:52 am

One difference between you and me, Thumper, boy: I don't give a shit what you think about me, whereas you obviously let what I say bug the hell out of you. What you said is the furthest thing from what I am, but I really don't care, friend.

[Edited 2005-09-28 21:54:11]
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:53 am

Thumper 3181,

I don't agree with your point of view, but I could more easily respect your
opinion if this kind of abuse had been done on proven 9/11 terrorists,
but you make it sound like these Iraqi soldiers are terrorists, wich
they are not.Nobody deserves this kind of treatment, but certainly not
soldiers.
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:53 am

GDB how is my attitude victory? What is your attitude about it. Shall we start writing parking tickets to Osama bin Laden? Tell me? What should we do. For once lets have some solutions from the left instead criticism. What would you in your worldly ways do different?

In the meantime I totally reject your definition of victory, but if my attitude (and many others) saves just one life from terrorism than call it a victory for the terrorists.

If refusing to appease terrorists is what you call victory for the terrorists then I say let them claim victory.

If stressing and hazing some prisoners who may have information that could save innocnet lives is victory for the terrorists then let them claim victory.

In the meantime I await your suggestions on how this should be done differently.
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:56 am

KLM what makes you so sure they where not terrorists at abu garib? Why did they get locked up in the first place? Could it be that someone had some pretty good proff that they where. Could it be that some of them where caught with arms caches or making bombs. Do you really think they just locked up people for shoplifting?
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 30):
The girl was sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

 redflag  redflag  redflag 

She screwed up, she was not alone, as Redngold demonstrated quite well in the other thread, same subject, but regardless, she screwed up.

If she was only person being punished your comment here might hold water. Since she is not, it's  redflag  all the way.

Her seniors are walking away with a retirement or another job - again, quite aptly pointed out in the other thread - but she's certainly not a scapegoat of the caliber you suggest.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:57 am

Falcon

Have the last word. It's not true but have it anyway. Next time try debating what is actually being written.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 39):
If refusing to appease terrorists is what you call victory for the terrorists then I say let them claim victory.

Either you don't read the other posts or you don't get the point at all. We are NOT talking about terrorists. These totured men are prisoners of war, soldiers.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 39):
If refusing to appease terrorists is what you call victory for the terrorists then I say let them claim victory.

These weren't terrorists, friend, they were armed combatants in a war zone. They should have been treated accordingly, not cattle, as you obviously condone. Again, simply FIGHTING U.S. troops isn't an act of terrorism is it.

Obviously, you can't, or don't want to tell, the difference, in another attempt to assuage your conscience that you do support torture.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 40):
KLM what makes you so sure they where not terrorists at abu garib?

Oh, just the stories that were put out in the media when it happened. But then again, sounds like facts don't concern you much.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
She's a good poster child for forced sterilization

 yes 
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
These weren't terrorists, friend, they were armed combatants in a war zone.

I'm not sure I agree totally with this comment my friend . . . . what's the difference between terrorists in a war zone and armed combatants in a war zone. Hell, we can't tell the difference between an insurgent and a shop owner at this point.

Regardless, doesn't excuse the actions against them that exceed the Geneva Convention . . .

And I'm not talking about the Sleep Dep, Holding jugs of water, and the diet of Water and Crackers either . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:12 am

It seams that for Thumper3181 everybody who fights an US soldier is a terrorist. But these men were Iraqi soldiers who fought against a foreign army which invaded their country.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Abu Ghraib's PFC Lynndie England, Guilty!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:34 am

- Gitmo residents were not soldiers, or freedom fighters they were terrorists or trainee terrorists. Where the US is wrong is not trying these people. You can lock them away for 50 years if you like AFTER a conviction. Don't preach the rule of law to the world and hold people without trial indefinitely. That is not acceptable.

- Lynndie England. Next time, don't take pictures. You got caught, you disgraced your uniform, you made your country look bad, so now you do the time. 100% agree with Backfire on this "I was only following orders" crap.

- Any Irish-American on this site ever donate to the IRA "freedom fighters" ? After Sept 11th, no-one in America had any doubt as to the results of funding "freedom fighters". I don't think the line wasn't so clear before.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.

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