oly720man
Posts: 5743
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:36 pm

http://www.metronews.co.uk/news/arti...er__what_the_usa_told_zakaria.html

A WITHINGTON business graduate says he was told he was banned from ever entering the USA because customs officials thought he looked like a terrorist.

Zakaria Mohammed Elmasri, 26, flew from Costa Rica to Miami airport on September 8 on his way to a friend’s wedding in Toronto.

British citizen Zakaria, whose family is from Libya, was met off the plane by US customs officials who interrogated him for four hours before locking him in a cell and sending him back to Costa Rica the next morning.

############

And what does a terrorist look like?
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:44 pm

Last time I was in GVA I crossed the F/CH border with the Rhaat and his BMW.
Two young people (one being not white) in a luxury car.

Guess the rest.

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:08 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 1):
Guess the rest.

Not too difficult to imagine, sad to say.

Having a flash car and not being white is always a great way to get the police to stop you over here. I think there was one man who was stopped 3 or 4 times in the same day a few years ago, in the same town.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
baylorairbear
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:13 pm

It's strange that he is suspect, but they still let him leave. If he is bad enough to be banned from anywhere, then he should be bad enough to be prosecuted.

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
MEA-707
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:17 pm

He should have bypassed the USA to avoid himself being hassled and humiliated like that, I am sure there are lots of possibilities to get from Costa Rica to Toronto, like via Mexico.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Stoney
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:58 pm

Try getting even an inch of fair treatment in Israel if you look even remotely like an arab (and they don't even care if you have a swiss passport)

I guess it's the same wherever you go, every nation/race has some type of person they suspect of being evil, actually sad situation and not looking like it will change anytime soon.
BAZL - Bundesamt gegen Zivilluftfahrt - royally screwing around with swiss aviation
 
csavel
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:33 am

While I'm certainly not going to underestimate the frank racism of DHS and immigration people in the US, I smell something fishy here.
I can envision the extra scrutiny part, but I can't imagine even a racist DHS person say to him,
“We don’t like your people, we don’t like where you’re from and we don’t want your kind or people in the country.”

That sounds like the words that a Hollywood Director would put in a DHS employee's mouth. Did the guy also say in a stage southern accent, "What we have here is failure to communicate?"

Something more here.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:30 am

Well, duh.

"My father was from Libya in North Africa and I had spent a year there as a child before moving to the UK. He died last year and IÕd been to Libya to visit him, so I suppose the stamps in my passport might have had something to do with it."

Hell, even I'd be overly scrutinized with stamps from Libya in my passport, but I don't believe permanent banning from travel without due cause is appropriate.

/rant, resume jumping to conclusions.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:43 am

People are almost always judged by how they look no matter where they go. It could be a supermarket or an airport.

I was lunching in a restaurant one day with a friend of mine who is Philippino. During the meal, he found a large piece of glass in his food! He called the server over to investigate. She took the plate away and came back with it and removed the glass. My friend who has features that might make he seem as though he could belong to another ethnic group was informed, "I was told to tell you that we know you put the glass in there yourself. We've seen your kind of people do this before to get a free meal."

I was aghast and he said to the server, "Are you telling me that I brought glass into this restaurant and put it in my own food just to get my meal for free??"

He was abruptly told, "Just eat it and leave." He was furious, but said nothing more. I asked him if he was just going to let that go by. He said that there was no point in pursuing it.

I was livid and before you know it, my lily white self was in that kitchen blasting every one of them.

My friend's wife later said to him, "I should have married him instead of you."

LOL
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:49 am

Actually I am wondering why there was such a big circus regarding the Lybia stamps. I entered the USA (just last Saturday) with my passport full of strange passport stamps (Iran, Oman, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, etc.).

Guess what? Strange that nobody of the immigration officers asked me why I have been to Iran, Laos, etc. Not only last Saturday, but always!

 scratchchin 

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
baylorairbear
Posts: 2841
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
Strange that nobody of the immigration officers asked me why I have been to Iran, Laos, etc. Not only last Saturday, but always!

Yeah, but you don't look like a terrorist.  stirthepot 

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
Actually I am wondering why there was such a big circus regarding the Lybia stamps

Pan Am 103.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
I entered the USA (just last Saturday) with my passport full of strange passport stamps (Iran, Oman, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, etc.).

Was there a nice man with a beagle on a leash walking around near you in Customs?

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
Patrick

is not Zakaria.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 10):
Yeah, but you don't look like a terrorist.

Ask the TSA at JFK, they think different, I always get a special treatment there.  Wink

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
baylorairbear
Posts: 2841
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 12):
I always get a special treatment there.

Does it involve lube? Big grin

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 13):
Does it involve lube?

Fortunately not!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
B744F
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting Stoney (Reply 5):
Try getting even an inch of fair treatment in Israel if you look even remotely like an arab (and they don't even care if you have a swiss passport)

There is a difference between "fair" treatment, and being locked up without just cause. They interrogate you in Israel if they are suspicious, but how often do they just throw you in jail because of your looks??
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 15):
how often do they just throw you in jail because of your looks??

Where did it say he was put in jail? Where did it say he was even shackled?

It sounds like he was put in a normal-sized holding "cell" or room that are used the world over at airports to hold those denied entrance to a country while awaiting deportation.
International Homo of Mystery
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:47 am

If you read the article, he says he just spent 3 months backpacking in Central America.

Lets look a little more honestly at the situation. After 3 months of backpacking in the "jungle" and probably a lot of out of the way places (why else backpack?) I am sure his attire was not Bill Blass at that point, add to that his hygiene might not have been the best, add to that a UK passport with a long period in Libya (I assume that he spent some time with his dying father), and entering the USA from Costa Rica (quite a round about way of coming) clearly of Middle eastern descent, no visible means of support (3 months backpacking means no job). It would look very funny to me as an DHS agent. How can he afford to travel without a job?, why didn't he take a direct flight?.

And this is all at his word, we have no idea except for his side of the story with respect to the interview.

And US Airports do not have "cells". A simple room works quite well.

If he showed an attitude and with the above "innocent" facts supplied, I think I might have banned him as well.
 
Kyril
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:00 pm

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:01 pm



Here's how i look, and i keep being arrested, strip searched by the stupid corporation we dare to call "police".
My 2 cents
Kyril
 
baylorairbear
Posts: 2841
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting Kyril (Reply 18):
Here's how i look, and i keep being arrested, strip searched by the stupid corporation we dare to call "police".

Wow! You're fucked up. I'd arrest you too.  Wink

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:40 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:43 am

I hate that everytime I am in Syria I keep getting arrested because they say I look like a 'Right-Wing Christian.'
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
Kyril
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:00 pm

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:48 am

However the good part having my look is at airport's customs and security check. When they see me they think I'm too "obviously" guilty than I wouldn't even try to be outlaw.

Sometimes when I forget a coin in my jeans' pocket and that the metal arch rings, security guys take their handy detectors and verify me.
If it rings around my crouch, after seeing my face piercings, I look at them in the eyes smiling to put them in an awkward position. They never dare to go further as they turn red !

Kyril
 
baylorairbear
Posts: 2841
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting Kyril (Reply 21):
If it rings around my crouch, after seeing my face piercings, I look at them in the eyes smiling to put them in an awkward position. They never dare to go further as they turn red !

LOL, that's funny!

Quoting Kyril (Reply 21):
However the good part having my look is at airport's customs and security check. When they see me they think I'm too "obviously" guilty than I wouldn't even try to be outlaw.

Good point.

BAB
I'm just skipping stones...
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting Stoney (Reply 5):
Try getting even an inch of fair treatment in Israel if you look even remotely like an arab (and they don't even care if you have a swiss passport

Well, my friend, the Swiss are no better, I get hassled at the CH border every time I enter, maybe I look to Jewish!
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
halls120
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Hell, even I'd be overly scrutinized with stamps from Libya in my passport, but I don't believe permanent banning from travel without due cause is appropriate.

Immigration officials everywhere profile. Regardless of the official position in the US against profiling, most all law enforcement officers engage in this practice. Which is no surprise, since they spend their professional lives watching people.

I was pulled aside for extra screening 75% of the time for the first two years following 9/11. Not because I look like a terrorist, but because I have many passport stamps that guarantee heighten scrutiny.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting Kyril (Reply 21):

If it rings around my crouch, after seeing my face piercings, I look at them in the eyes smiling to put them in an awkward position. They never dare to go further as they turn red !

That's kind of scary. You could be hiding something there that is dangerous.

AAndrew
 
Kyril
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:00 pm

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):
That's kind of scary. You could be hiding something there that is dangerous.

Hum my crouch hiding something dangerous? LOL you're flattering me ...  Wink

Kyril
 
SFOerik
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:17 pm

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:51 am

intense searches are the only way to keepout the bad guys. Get used to it!
It is the new world we live in. Every time I get searched at the airport I always say "thank you for keeping us safe!"

els
I will no longer stress about upgrades!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting Oly720man (Thread starter):
what does a terrorist look like?

-
Reminds me of that police-chief at Shreveport-Airport who back in 1997, when I told him I had been taking photos of airplanes from OUTSIDE the airport-area, bluntly told me that people with my nose and my face should keep OUT of his place and that I should never try to do it again. Suppose that things after 11Sep01 have deterioriated.
 
ME AVN FAN
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Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
He should have bypassed the USA to avoid himself being hassled and humiliated like that

-
he of course should have bypassed the USA but apparently very simply did NOT expect anything thelike. he now knows .....
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Csavel (Reply 6):
I can't imagine even a racist DHS person say to him,
“We don’t like your people, we don’t like where you’re from and we don’t want your kind or people in the country.”

-
while I quite easily CAN
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
permanent banning from travel without due cause is appropriate.

-
"being told .... to be banned permanently" is NOT "BEING BANNED" --- it may well be some rethorics. "looks of hatred and contempt" may of course be subject of imagination. Security officials in most countries often look like that.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 31):
"being told .... to be banned permanently" is NOT "BEING BANNED"

Hrm? The first paragraph of the linked article says:

"he was told he was banned from ever entering the USA because customs officials thought he looked like a terrorist."

Isn't this "being banned" from the U.S. for the rest of his life any way you slice it? Or are we talking about something else?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28):
Reminds me of that police-chief at Shreveport-Airport who back in 1997

Yes, but he went home to his double-wide. You went home to Switzerland. There's perspective in everything, no matter what the situation. I hope you were staring at the badge with his name on it while he was barking that at you.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
were staring at the badge with his name on it while he was barking that at you.

-
I do not remember clearly but think I was doing so. But no sense to discuss matters because you canNOT prove such utterances. My absolute priority was to get OUT, and so I swallowed my anger. And WAS out within half an hour.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Isn't this "being banned" from the U.S. for the rest of his life

my question is whether his data really was recorded as banned for life or whether they simply told him "never to come back" . your reaction to this however points to his data REALLY having been recorded by the US-authorities
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting Kyril (Reply 26):
Hum my crouch hiding something dangerous?

Like a knife, razor, box cutter or something similar.

AAndrew
 
KyleLosAngeles
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 8):
My friend's wife later said to him, "I should have married him instead of you."

That would leave her ... uh ... er ... frustrated, me thinks.
Happy 2006
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:03 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 34):
your reaction to this however points to his data REALLY having been recorded by the US-authorities

Yeah, I'm not an expert on immigration matters, but I would think if you're denied entry into the U.S., and it went as far as being kept isolated until deported, that'd be recorded somewhere, and would have to be declared on any future visa applications. I'm not familiar enough with immigration procedures for how that could be appealed, if at all.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
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RE: Guilty Because Of The Way You Look

Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
but I would think if you're denied entry into the U.S., and it went as far as being kept isolated until deported, that'd be recorded somewhere, and would have to be declared on any future visa applications. I'm not familiar enough with immigration procedures for how that could be appealed, if at all.

while I, in spite of four extensive holiday trips in the USA, am not an expert into US-American authorities. For comparison however, I can tell you about Italy, where I in 1975 landed up in prison (Rome, Regina Coeli, Via dellla Lungara), for a week under "suspicions etc" and then was "sent out" with the advice "not to turn up" in spoken terms but nothing in writing, and never had any problems. In 2002, I was caught, for unknown reasons, while trying to go to Malpensa, by an anti-terrorist unit of the Carabinieri, and questioned for some 6 or 7 hours. As I had myself under control and throughout it all remained polite and understanding, I in the end was sent out by friendly handshake. ---- But in the case in Rome I was in the age of Zakarya, and certainly "committed" all mistakes possible to increase the problem.
-
There was a time in 1970/71 when one day of aircraft-photography at ZRH-Airport for me resulted in up to 4/four intensive police-controls, while all the others remained unmolested. Whenever I of course realized that those police-chaps in the end also worked for MY security and survival, such things ARE most embarassing nevertheless. And such "wise" comments about their working for the security of everybody is of zero comfort.
-
Back to the original topic. It is well possible, that he more or less was told "to get O U T " but that the "never to return" thing was rather his imagination. After some time of such contacts and "interviewing" you easily "imagine" things I can tell you !

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