aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:34 am

Why hasn't VW jumped on the bandwagon and rolled out a Jetta Hybrid yet? I've heard that the used hybrid market at some point was selling higher than new ones. I'm ready to dump my gas guzzler and get a hybrid.

Regards.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102479
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:48 am

In the last few years VW spent a lot of money developing

a.) high-MPG diesel engines for the European market
b.) lots of different gasoline engines (W8, G-charger, first generation FSI-engines, etc.) that eventually flopped in the market

Therefore their engineering capacity was tied up and they missed the hybrid bandwagon.

The CEO of VW recently announced that they would have to radically streamline the number of engines that they are offering.

As VW has never been a very nimble company (and apart from the direct injection turbo diesel engines also seldom a technology leader), I would assume that it would take them quite some time to offer a decent selection of hybrid cars.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Thread starter):
I'm ready to dump my gas guzzler and get a hybrid.

Shouldn't you worry about graduating high school first?
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
senorcarnival
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:05 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:09 am

If gas efficiency is your only concern, the TDI Jetta has a 36/41 mpg on the 5-speed version.
Oh no, she's getting impatient! Take a stab at it!
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:38 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 1):
and apart from the direct injection turbo diesel engines also seldom a technology leader),

and even this was developped by audi, although audi is a subsidiary of vw.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7575
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:45 am

Volkswagen has been busy building glass factories, and 3 ton SUVs, rather than focusing upon its old strength of economical vehicles.

While VW has been a leader in clean diesel technology a variety of regulatory and market barriers have thus far restricted the growth of diesel sales in the US. Even with the arrival of Ultra-low sulfur diesel next year, new EPA emissions regulations (which are far tougher than anything in the EU) pose some serious technical hurdles. As it stands now VW diesels are only sold in 45 of 50 US states.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:56 am

There are also some other issues.

Some of the components needed for Hybrids are based on Japanese components and Ford was loudly complaining a couple weeks ago that those components where being "Saved" for japanese manufacurers.


Fact is Hybrid technology isn't all it is cracked up to be. It is still an immature level of technology, They get lousy gas milage in winter conditions, There are heavy metals and their disposal issues with the batteries in these cars. They are heavier then gas powered versions, which negatively effects vehicle weight and performance, and there are safety issues with the additional wiring if a firefighter ever has to extricate a victim from a wreck.

Stick with a smaller gas powered car, simpler and more reliable. Let somebody else be on the bleeding edge of technology.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:21 am

I think VW developed a hybrid car about 10 years ago. I seem to remember when I was in London watching Top Gear on the BBC where a reporter was test driving a hybrid Golf. Can't remember whether the hybrid ever made it to European showrooms, or what ever came of the design.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:47 am

>> Fact is Hybrid technology isn't all it is cracked up to be. It is still an immature level of technology,

Debatable, but hybrids have made more progress in the last 5 years than gasoline engines have in the last 25 years.

>> They get lousy gas milage in winter conditions

No worse than gas cars.

>> , There are heavy metals and their disposal issues with the batteries in these cars.

Hybrids use NiMH batteries, an entire hybrid battery system has less lead than a conventional battery. There is already widespread infrastructure for the recovery and recycling of NiMH batteries:


  • Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
  • http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_li...y/display_release.html?id=20040623


>> They are heavier then gas powered versions, which negatively effects vehicle weight and performance,

Performance isn't true. Nearly all hybrids beat their conventional-powered counterparts off the line.

>> Stick with a smaller gas powered car, simpler and more reliable

Reliability for 1st and 2nd generation hybrids have been impeccable.

>> there are safety issues with the additional wiring if a firefighter ever has to extricate a victim from a wreck.

Must say I've never heard that one before.

>> Volkswagen has been busy building glass factories, and 3 ton SUVs, rather than focusing upon its old strength of economical vehicles.

I agree, DesertJets. Five years ago, they had the most desirable demographic in the United States raving about their products. In my opinion, they have lost focus in this market, and need to play some catch-up ASAP.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:22 am

Is there a possibility for hybrid vehicles to have higher maintanence costs in the long run? Having both a gas/diesel powered and electrical based engine.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
>> Volkswagen has been busy building glass factories, and 3 ton SUVs, rather than focusing upon its old strength of economical vehicles.

I agree, DesertJets. Five years ago, they had the most desirable demographic in the United States raving about their products. In my opinion, they have lost focus in this market, and need to play some catch-up ASAP.

I'm not disagreeing, but given by the amount of VW Golf/Jetta TDI's that are on the road up here, I would think that they are doing quite well.

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 1):
The CEO of VW recently announced that they would have to radically streamline the number of engines that they are offering.

I would agree with that. If one is looking at a Golf/Jetta class vehicle, the VW group builds at least 5 models for a customer to choose from. VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda. On top of that, the vehicles have so many possible engine options that its very confusing for the customer.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:50 am

It generally will take several years until a hybrid's lower fuel consumption will make up for its price premium over a comparable non-hybrid model. And that's not taking into account the time value of money or the dealer price gouging affecting many hybrids. I've heard of dealers demanding $5,000 over MSRP for Toyota Priuses.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
there are safety issues with the additional wiring if a firefighter ever has to extricate a victim from a wreck.

Must say I've never heard that one before

I wouldn't have either, but my brother is a volunteer firefighter and they are very concerned about having to take the jaws of life to one of these cars.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
>> They get lousy gas milage in winter conditions

No worse than gas cars.

I have sister that worked for one of the major suppliers of hybrid cars....I won't say which manufacturer. Anyway, she said that all winter they where getting calls from people claiming they where getting sub-10MPG on their cars.

What happens is that an engine is the most efficent when it reaches a particular operating temperture, about 190-ish. Anyway, what happens with a hybrid, when it is 0 degrees in Alaska. Is that the engine doesn't run long enough to get up to operating temperture despite the fact that the batteries need to be charged more often because they lose efficency at low temps. So you are constantly running an engine in a state of starting. The result is lousy milage. Anybody who has had a thermostat stuck open in cold weather will vouch for the resultant fuel burn.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Reliability for 1st and 2nd generation hybrids have been impeccable.

Still have only been on the mass market for a couple of years. Give the other consumers a chance to wring out issues.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_li...40623

My compliments to Toyota, but I wonder how effective that program will be, particularly with cars that are wrecked or parted out at remote locations.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 7):
I think VW developed a hybrid car about 10 years ago.

They still have a hybrid Golf, although with a (natural) gas and petrol engine. Those cars are lower taxed over here and there are already (barely) plenty of fuel stations.
I support the right to arm bears
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:09 pm

I'd much rather have a diesel Jetta (well, Golf actually) than a hybrid.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:04 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 10):
It generally will take several years until a hybrid's lower fuel consumption will make up for its price premium over a comparable non-hybrid model. And that's not taking into account the time value of money or the dealer price gouging affecting many hybrids. I've heard of dealers demanding $5,000 over MSRP for Toyota Priuses

Move up to BC, we get Government rebates on hybrids! Around $2000 for a Civic/Accord/Prius type. Big grin
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Molykote
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: VW Jetta Hybrid, Where Is It?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
>> Fact is Hybrid technology isn't all it is cracked up to be. It is still an immature level of technology,

Debatable, but hybrids have made more progress in the last 5 years than gasoline engines have in the last 25 years.

Although I agree with the 5 vs 25 comment, this is not to say that the refinements in gasoline engines haven't been remarkable - particularly in weight, power density, and reliability. These advantages of course would also apply to a hybrid using a combustion engine.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
>> They are heavier then gas powered versions, which negatively effects vehicle weight and performance,

Performance isn't true. Nearly all hybrids beat their conventional-powered counterparts off the line.

Please don't take such a narrow view of performance. The low end torque provided by the electric assist is nice but performance also includes handling and braking - both of which are profoundly influenced by weight.

In this case "off the line" means from zero to what speed exactly? Power is generally more usable at highway/passing speeds anyway.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
>> Volkswagen has been busy building glass factories, and 3 ton SUVs, rather than focusing upon its old strength of economical vehicles.

I agree, DesertJets. Five years ago, they had the most desirable demographic in the United States raving about their products. In my opinion, they have lost focus in this market, and need to play some catch-up ASAP.

Word.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cjg225 and 24 guests