TheSonntag
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Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:04 am

I always wondered, why is fuel so rediculously cheap in the US. In Europe, fuel is expensive everywhere, because of the high taxes. Do the US have no taxes on fuel, or why is it so cheap?
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:07 am

Uh, I don't think this is the time to start a thread like this if you're really looking for some honest answers. I am pretty sure that most Americans wouldn't consider fuel cheap by any means these days, even though other parts of the world have more expensive rates.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
. Do the US have no taxes on fuel, or why is it so cheap?

Most states run around 40 cents a gallon in taxes on fuel. That is a lot less tax than is charged in Europe.

Also, we need fuel to be cheap, we are much more spread out than Europe.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 1):

True, but still, 1 litre is 1,50 Dollars in Europe, while 1 gallon (= 4 litres) is not much more expensive in the US if I remember correct...
 
whitehatter
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
I always wondered, why is fuel so rediculously cheap in the US. In Europe, fuel is expensive everywhere, because of the high taxes. Do the US have no taxes on fuel, or why is it so cheap?

Much lower taxation. There is also the fact that transportation costs are lower as much US oil is sourced locally from the Gulf of Mexico and other locations, whereas Europe uses oil shipped in from the Gulf States.

North sea oil is also lower in its gasoline yield than that from places like Saudi Arabia. It's a heavier form of crude.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:12 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 1):
Uh, I don't think this is the time to start a thread like this if you're really looking for some honest answers. I am pretty sure that most Americans wouldn't consider fuel cheap by any means these days, even though other parts of the world have more expensive rates.

While we may not consider fuel cheap here in the states, in Europe it's just ridiculous. Price is all relative and you can't blame TheSonntag for thinking it's cheap here. In Switzerland this summer I saw gas for 1.89 a liter, which is roughly 3 or 4 times the price in the states!

Makes me feel sorry for all my cousins there who are just getting their liscences.

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aloges
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 4):
Europe uses oil shipped in from the Gulf States.

Russia and Lybia, as well. That's one of the reasons why Putin and Ghaddafi get/got away with everything.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 1):
Uh, I don't think this is the time to start a thread like this if you're really looking for some honest answers.

Why I see nothing wrong with the question. He has a point, even though the price per gallon has risen in the states, it is still cheaper than the majority of the world!!

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 1):
I am pretty sure that most Americans wouldn't consider fuel cheap by any means these days,

Then most Americans have never traveled abroad then.
Where did everybody go?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:31 am

Taxes on the Federal and State level are a lot lower in the USA as a deliberate policy. In Europe, high taxes were used to hold down demand and imports for oil especially after WWII and to pay back the costs of the war and rebuilding. In later years, like in the Mid-1950's Suez Canal crises, it was to conserve oil when supplies got tight. Later, the taxes were kept high to pay for the broad social services (including medical care) the citizens demanded. In the USA, the per gallon taxes (I believe Federal of 14 cents/gallon and the state from 10 to 40 cents/gallon) taxes are mostly used to pay for roads and their maintence. Some states also use part of their per gallon taxes or add general sales taxes to fuel sales for general revenue purposes. Low priced oil/oil products are needed per many here due to long distances to work, the growth of suburbs. In Europe, most people live in more urban enviroments, and were public transit is more effective. In the USA, politicans have always been told to keep fuel taxes down and if they wanted to be reelected, they did so.
 
oneworldman
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 7):
Then most Americans have never traveled abroad then.

While this statement may be true, I think it is a little short sighted. Americans (myself included) are complaining now about our fuel prices because, If you were used to paying $1.30 per gallon and then 6 months later your paying over $3.00, that is I think grounds for a little complaining!
Querer es poder.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:36 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):

Ok, this sounds very reasonable, thanks... All together, I think its not so bad to have fuel being expensive, IF the money is used for important social purposes and IF this leads to more fuel efficient cars being developed... But I understand that the car is much more needed in the US due to the greater distances...
 
yooyoo
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:42 am

Cheap !!!

Go to Venezuela....I think there way up to about 0.12 a litre now.
 banghead 


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aaflt1871
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 11):
Cheap !!!

Go to Venezuela....I think there way up to about 0.12 a litre now.

And what does the average person make there a week?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:47 am

>> . All together, I think its not so bad to have fuel being expensive, IF the money is used for important social purposes and IF this leads to more fuel efficient cars being developed...

This has been debated a lot in the U.S.

Higher gas taxes effectivly place an additional burden on lower and middle class workers. It does little to curb the spending habits of the upper and wealthy class. If they want to drive an SUV or guzzling car, they can do so at any price. Also, lower and middle class workers typically live further from their jobs and depend on transportation for their living. A high gas tax disproportionally affects these people, making any increase in social services is zero sum, and does not curb the habits of those who consume the most.
 
aloges
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 12):
And what does the average person make there a week?

$111.54

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
If they want to drive an SUV or guzzling car, they can do so at any price.

Well, if 15,000,000 people can't afford a 10 mpg gas guzzler thanks to taxes but 15,000 people still can, I'm all for it.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
Also, lower and middle class workers typically live further from their jobs and depend on transportation for their living. A high gas tax disproportionally affects these people, making any increase in social services is zero sum, and does not curb the habits of those who consume the most.

Hence this typically German think called "Pendlerpauschale". Commuters get some money (I think it's a tax deduction) for every mile they have to drive. Bureaucracy, bureaucracy...

Edit: merged two posts into one

[Edited 2005-10-06 22:12:53]
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aaflt1871
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 14):
Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 12):
And what does the average person make there a week?

$111.54

Thank You Aloges for proving my point. I was not sure of the average weekly pay. I knew it was low. I have done security details where I have made more than that in one hour.
Where did everybody go?
 
B744F
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:09 am

You want the reason? The US being in bed with the Saudis since WWII ended. The Saudis can manipulate the market prices and allow America to buy cheaper oil. Also the many countries the US has "liberated" in the past and used the World Bank and the IMF to force American dominance in the regions of Venezuela, Indonesia, Mexico, etc.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 16):
You want the reason? The US being in bed with the Saudis since WWII ended. The Saudis can manipulate the market prices and allow America to buy cheaper oil. Also the many countries the US has "liberated" in the past and used the World Bank and the IMF to force American dominance in the regions of Venezuela, Indonesia, Mexico, etc.

Yes, the answer is always the evil American government and its puppet residents.
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B744F
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 17):
Yes, the answer is always the evil American government and its puppet residents.

There is so much history still left to learn for you, my son.

As a start, you can read "Presidents Secret Wars"
 
aloges
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:58 am

Would American a.netters agree that the lack of public transportation in the US is partly due to this lack being a kind of "vicious circle" à la "We don't have public transportation, so we need cars. We have cars, so we don't need public transportation"?

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 15):
Thank You Aloges for proving my point. I was not sure of the average weekly pay. I knew it was low. I have done security details where I have made more than that in one hour.

Well, only partly proving that point: according to the same source (CIA World Factbook, forgot to mention that earlier), the average weekly pay in the US is $771.15 which isn't even seven times as much as in Vzla. - but gas prices are slightly more than seven times higher in the US, wouldn't you agree?  Wink

Long story short, of course Vzla.'s huge oil "production" has an immense impact on local prices. Same goes for the Persian Gulf region etc. pp.
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lowrider
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:12 am

Its Bush's fault. I am still trying to work in religion and homosexuality to make it a true A.net thread
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oneworldman
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 19):
Would American a.netters agree that the lack of public transportation in the US is partly due to this lack being a kind of "vicious circle" à la "We don't have public transportation, so we need cars. We have cars, so we don't need public transportation"?

This would only be true depending on the region of the country you live in. If you live in the Northeast ( New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Boston, Connecticut), transportation is not a problem. New York Has one of if not the largest commuter rail and bus system in the world. And all of the states and cities that I mentioned before all have pretty good transportation system as well.

I am not sure how the price of gas is decided outside the USA, but here each state actually has a say in the price of gas. For instance, I live in NJ, where the price of gas is at least $.30 cheaper than the price of gas in NY. And guess what NY has the better commuter system than NJ.
Querer es poder.
 
aloges
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Oneworldman (Reply 21):
If you live in the Northeast

Yeah, I should've mentioned I was thinking more to the West here. The NYC Metro is of course impressive!

Quoting Oneworldman (Reply 21):
I am not sure how the price of gas is decided outside the USA, but here each state actually has a say in the price of gas.

It's one tax level in all of Germany, which is no surprise since the entire country is about the size of Montana. However, EU member countries have different tax levels and lots of people make short trips over the border to fill up.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
Its Bush's fault. I am still trying to work in religion and homosexuality to make it a true A.net thread

Maybe fuel prices are so low in the US so that the US can counter the massive selling of illegal subsidised French cars given away for free to homosexual atheists in San Francisco, because these fuel prices make SUVs made in Detroit affordable...

:D

[Edited 2005-10-07 00:29:23]
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 11):
Cheap !!!

Go to Venezuela....I think there way up to about 0.12 a litre now.

I just paid USD 1,75 to fill up my family's Grand Caravan Minivan.  Smile

For the person who asked what's the average weekly income here in Venezuela... I'll put it simple. Only the middle class can own cars here, only a small faction of cars are owned by poor people and those cars are really old ones from the 70s, 80s. The average middle class family income is USD 2500 a week.

Fuel is ridiculously cheap here,it is cheaper than water or any other sold liquid.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
peterpuck
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:01 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 1):
Also, we need fuel to be cheap, we are much more spread out than Europe.

It should be even cheaper up here then?!
 
B2707SST
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 16):
You want the reason? The US being in bed with the Saudis since WWII ended. The Saudis can manipulate the market prices and allow America to buy cheaper oil.

Um, no. If that were true, people like us could make money hand over fist by buying oil futures on the US markets -- which anyone with a brokerage account can do -- and selling on the European markets. Believe me, we have to work a lot harder than that.

Oil and distillate wholesale prices are pretty much the same all over the world, with the vast majority of discrepancies explained by transportation costs and, especially at the retail level, taxes. Otherwise, riskless profit opportunities (arbitrages) become available where you can buy low and sell high, and there are plenty of financial institutions and hedge funds that spend huge amounts of time looking for them.

Fuel is cheap in some developing countries because it's heavily subsidized by the government, and in the case of exporters like Venezuela, the state is willing to forego the extra revenue that could be generated by selling it abroad in order to keep the locals happy. I bet there are some rather hefty export taxes on that $0.12/gal Venezuelan gas!

--B2707SST

[Edited 2005-10-07 04:14:18]
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Thumper3181
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 16):
You want the reason? The US being in bed with the Saudis since WWII ended. The Saudis can manipulate the market prices and allow America to buy cheaper oil.

Yes to some extent they are. Saudi/American relations go back to the 1940's when oil was discovered there. That is the only part you got right.

I am greatly simplifying this for you. Saudi Arabia is a geographically large country with a small population located in what has always been a rough neighborhood. The deal that exists to this day is that the Saudis keep the oil flowing at rates great enough as to not cause supply problems or price shocks that would threaten the economy.In return the US would invest in the oil fields and ensure that the house of Saudi would remain invulnerable to overthrow by any foreign power.

Lately Saudi production has declined to a point where they can no longer just flood the world oil market at will when prices get out of hand. This may or may not be changing. They are planning to ramp up production another 14%. This spare capacity would allow them to continue to dominate the world oil market.

"Saudi Arabia is the only OPEC member able to compensate for supply cuts and is targeting to raise production capacity by 14 percent to 12.5 million barrels a day in five years. Saudi Arabia has a plan to raise capacity to 15 million barrels a day whenever that much is needed, al-Naimi said."

Source- http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...000006&sid=anZIXb6A.gtE&refer=home

If you are the Saudis why would you want to lower the price of oil? Because selling 10 million barrels of oil at 25-30 bucks a barrel is better than selling none at all. There are oil shale deposits all over the world. In the US alone there is an estimated 1 trillion barrels of recoverable oil in the shale. That is nearly 62% of the worlds proven recoverable shale oil. Australia and China also have substantial shale oil deposits. Connect the dots on that one and you win the booby prize.

Source - http://www.worldoil.com/Magazine/MAGAZINE_DETAIL.asp?ART_ID=2378
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:21 pm

>> Algoes >> Would American a.netters agree that the lack of public transportation in the US is partly due to this lack being a kind of "vicious circle"


I've never really heard that used as a reason, but usually it boils down to one of two things:

(1) The existing mass-transit is either filthy or unconvienient, repulsing all but those who must use it.

(2) Population density is too low for mass transit to be effective

The second problem is more often the case. Take Dallas-Fort Worth for example. The total population of the DFW area is about 4 million people, but they are spread over 10,000 km^2. It's a city of suburbs. Many people don't work, recreate, or live in the "city" but another suburb. This makes it difficult to build fixed infastructure like rail, and who wants to take a bus when they own a car, and there's road everywhere?

There are some corridors that support rail very well. Dallas built two rail lines running from the suburbs into Dallas. Since then, construction of high-density living and luxury condos along the rail stations have exploded. The rail has been a huge boon. It's estimated that the two rail lines (and a third connecting metro Dallas and Fort Worth) board over 50,000 people a day. That's as good as the German ICE network.

It isn't a panacea, as that's only 1% of the entire population who must go somewhere, but it's a start. No rail line will connect every suburb, but incremental rail growth can start to convert people into "urban" thinking. For years, suburbs have been seen as the paradise in which to escape the crummy urban 'hoods.

I've personally changed my habits, and now take the rail to my jogging route rather than driving my car.  Smile
 
cptkrell
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:03 pm

Joining in the spirit of this forum, I have a GREAT plan. For every 10.0 % increase in oil barrel costs (irrespective of who the futures speculators and/or the parent exporters ), I would advocate a 100.0 % price increase in exporting USA's life-supporting products (food and medicinals come to mind).

Yeah, I know that our exports are much less than a decade or so ago, and I also know that my idea sucks, BUT, why at least not a "fuck you" playing field rather than a "we're fucked" playing field?

To insert a modicum of seriousness before I take a snooze, there are some people on this forum (NOT those of you with a simblance of being only slightly elevated from your primordial soup upbringings) who recognise the varying economic plug-ins respective of "cheap" fuel in the USA. The first that I can think of before I crap out is that, essentially, the USA is NOT a damn socialistic/communistic endeavour where every individual earner has to pay through confiscation everybody else for their own shit (ie: transportation, rent, Big Macs, lifestyle alterations, etc.).

WTF are you European guys/girls getting out of your zillion-dollar/gal gasoline taxes? Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide? A friggin' bus at 0600 when you don't have to be to work until 0900?

Maybe bad analogies, but I felt the urge to rant. We in the USA get taxed, too. It just hasn't got as bad as you guys yet. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
I always wondered, why is fuel so rediculously cheap in the US.

It isn't anymore. The gap has significantly narrowed. Also, there is another reason that fuel is more expensive, the lowest grade of fuel in Europe is the equivalent of the highest grade in the US.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 2):
Most states run around 40 cents a gallon in taxes on fuel.

I really don't see how that is possible, unless you are combining federal and state taxes. The California state gasoline tax runs about 15-20 cents per gallon, yet California still has the highest fuel prices

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 3):
True, but still, 1 litre is 1,50 Dollars in Europe, while 1 gallon (= 4 litres)

Actually, 1 gallon = 3.68 liters. I remember when fuel was running about $1.20 per gallon in the US and 90 Euro cents per liter in Germany. That was a much greater difference.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 4):
There is also the fact that transportation costs are lower as much US oil is sourced locally from the Gulf of Mexico and other locations, whereas Europe uses oil shipped in from the Gulf States.

Actually, US oil production is focused in 3 areas. They are the Gulf/Texas/Oklahoma, Southern California and Alaska. Our main sources of imported oil are Nigeria and Venezuela

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
Higher gas taxes effectivly place an additional burden on lower and middle class workers.

They only do that if public transport is inadequate, which it is in many place.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
Also, lower and middle class workers typically live further from their jobs and depend on transportation for their living.

Which is why commuter rail lines are needed.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
It does little to curb the spending habits of the upper and wealthy class. If they want to drive an SUV or guzzling car, they can do so at any price.

What it does do is curb the habits of the middle class. As I am sure you have noticed Rev, a great percentage of the higher fuel consumption cars are driven by the middle and even lower classes. They may be older versions, but all groups drive things like Suburbans and Explorers. Additionally, the increase in ultra-low financing deals has meant more people at more income levels buying fuel guzzling cars, as the ones most often used for these deals are the high margin SUVs.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 24):
The average middle class family income is USD 2500 a week.

That is a lot of money

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 26):
I bet there are some rather hefty export taxes on that $0.12/gal Venezuelan gas!

Actually, the Venezuelan government owns the oil company, so I don't think they are taxing themselves, they just keep the profits

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
WTF are you European guys/girls getting out of your zillion-dollar/gal gasoline taxes? Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide? A friggin' bus at 0600 when you don't have to be to work until 0900?

What the hell are you talking about? They get excellent roads, excellent healthcare, great public transport and don't have their income taxes go to environmental spending. That is something people in the US don't understand. Most environmental spending here comes from general income taxes while in Europe it comes from gas taxes, i.e. the ones who use it.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
The first that I can think of before I crap out is that, essentially, the USA is NOT a damn socialistic/communistic endeavour where every individual earner has to pay through confiscation everybody else for their own shit (ie: transportation, rent, Big Macs, lifestyle alterations, etc.).

Confiscation? You are kidding me
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Aviation
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:41 pm

fuel is 40 percent cheaper in the us but the us must still have taxes on it right?
anyway here in aust the price of fuel is about 50% tax!

How crap is that!


Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli
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AeroWesty
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting Aviation (Reply 31):
the us must still have taxes on it right?

Yes, it's difficult to give a definite figure because it varies state-to-state, and even locality-to-locality, and whether local taxes apply to federal taxes, and if sales taxes apply to the gasoline taxes. There are literally hundreds of ways a gallon of gas may have tax calculated on it.

That said, there's approximately 40¢ per gallon of total taxes included in the retail cost of a gallon of gas.
International Homo of Mystery
 
TheSonntag
Topic Author
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
WTF are you European guys/girls getting out of your zillion-dollar/gal gasoline taxes? Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide? A friggin' bus at 0600 when you don't have to be to work until 0900?

Maybe bad analogies, but I felt the urge to rant. We in the USA get taxed, too. It just hasn't got as bad as you guys yet. Regards...jack

Ok, I didn't want to reply, but I will do it anyway. We got fuel efficient, comfortable cars which are among the best in the world, a good road transportation network (ever heard of the Autobahn?), public health insurance (you don't have to die when you get unemployed) and so on. And wait, 20 feet are 6metres, right? A typical Autobahn is 40metres = 120 feet...

So our road network is, in fact, very good, as it is built in a way that you can drive 250km or 150mph on it... At least at night...
 
B707321C
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RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:13 pm

There have been a lot of comments regarding why the fuel prices are so low in the US compared with Europe. Its only one reason. Most European countries put heavy taxes on fuel. This in order reduces pollution and emissions. The US doesn’t have the same attitude towards the environment. Most Americans think they have a God given right to pollute and stink up the environment as much as they want. I know that fuel prices have gone up a lot in the US lately, but the rest of the world don’t feel sorry for drivers who drive big ugly 3-4 tonnes trucks back and forth to work alone every day. That just too much “redneck” for us.

The consequence of this policy is that there have been a lot research and development in Europe to develop more efficient vehicles. That is why you today have a lot of quality high performance vehicles in Europe that are really fuel-efficient. The recent hike in fuel prices has put a lot pressure on US car manufactures and all of a sudden they find themselves generation behind in development more efficient cars.

The consequence of this taxation if of course reduced demand of oil on the world market, which in turn reduces the price. If Europe hadn’t had these taxes the consumptions and prices would have been higher. So, indirectly one could say the Europeans have subsided high oil consumption in the US for several years.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
WTF are you European guys/girls getting out of your zillion-dollar/gal gasoline taxes? Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide?

You probably haven’t been in California lately, where the standard of the Freeways are so bad, that I understand the need to for them to drive off-road vehicles.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
the USA is NOT a damn socialistic/communistic endeavour where every individual earner has to pay through confiscation everybody else for their own shit

Oh Yes I think it is...If you only knew.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:17 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 28):
I've personally changed my habits, and now take the rail to my jogging route rather than driving my car.

Thanks for the info, and thanks for the decision! Every gallon saved is a great help.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
Maybe bad analogies, but I felt the urge to rant.

Duly noted...  eyepopping 

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide? A friggin' bus at 0600 when you don't have to be to work until 0900?

More like fuel-efficient safe high-tech cars that set standards: Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Lamborghini, Ferrari - do you get the picture? Our highways (Autobahn) are famous around the world, and the streets in our cities are perfectly fine if you know how to keep your car going in a more or less straight line - and for that, we have proper driving education.

As for the "bus at 6 am": Thank you, I'll stick with a tram every 10 minutes during the day, Monday through Saturday. Make that every 5 minutes if you count both lines that get me to the centre. I get more than a dozen bus lines to haul me around town. I get comfortable and up-to-date regional trains in my area - and all of them combined are €89,- this semester. On top of that, I get highly comfortable long distance trains that bring me home fast, completely relaxed and usually on time. The best thing about them is those parts of the tracks that are close to the Autobahn: you wonder why the cars are all going so slow, when in fact you're the one zipping along at 250 km/h.

Oh yes, and I get healthcare, free universities, the highways don't cost me one cent of tolls...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
KevinL1011
Posts: 2858
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:48 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:41 pm

Quoting B707321C (Reply 34):
Most Americans think they have a God given right to pollute and stink up the environment as much as they want.

Hell yeah! You forgot to mention that we also enjoy burning the rear tires off the car with big displacement V8 engines.

Quoting B707321C (Reply 34):
The consequence of this policy is that there have been a lot research and development in Europe to develop more efficient vehicles

By who? Taxation by displacement probably had more to do with it.

Quoting B707321C (Reply 34):
You probably haven’t been in California lately, where the standard of the Freeways are so bad, that I understand the need to for them to drive off-road vehicles.

Naw, the freeways aren't that bad. We have full size 4X4 extra cab lifted pickups with oversized tires, no mufflers and 1,000,000 candlepower lights for penis enhancement. Chicks dig it.

Anybody know what "Corporate Average Fuel Economy" (CAFE) is or how those EPA mileage ratings on the window sticker are determined? Look into it sometime.

Anybody know where does the 20,000,000 barrells a day of crude out of Iraq go?
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
B707321C
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 36):
Hell yeah! You forgot to mention that we also enjoy burning the rear tires off the car with big displacement V8 engines.

Thanks for your correction. I totally forgot about that!

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 36):
By who? Taxation by displacement probably had more to do with it.

Car manufacturers

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 36):
Chicks dig it.

What kind of Chichs would love that! -

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 36):
Anybody know where does the 20,000,000 barrells a day of crude out of Iraq go?

Most of it actually goes to CA.
 
KevinL1011
Posts: 2858
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:48 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:18 pm

Quoting B707321C (Reply 37):
Car manufacturers

Yeah no kidding?

Quoting B707321C (Reply 37):
What kind of Chichs would love that! -

Fat ass sluts that pour themselves into low cut jeans wearing spagetti strap tops with black bras, bleach their hair and listen to country music. Not much to look at but they are very engaging to converse with.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
B707321C
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 38):
Fat ass sluts that pour themselves into low cut jeans wearing spagetti strap tops with black bras, bleach their hair and listen to country music. Not much to look at but they are very engaging to converse with.

Well, I guess we are all different!
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 29):
WTF are you European guys/girls getting out of your zillion-dollar/gal gasoline taxes? Shitty little cars and streets that are 20 feet-wide? A friggin' bus at 0600 when you don't have to be to work until 0900?

Umm, have you been to Europe? Their cars are a heluva of lot better than what's sold in N.A.. Furthermore, have you considered that maybe the reason a lot of streets aren't that wide is because they were built before the notion of cars and Europeans (thankfully) don't adhere to the tear-it-down-build-it-up-bigger-and-uglier theory that so many parts of this country do (i.e. Florida, Texas, etc)

In closing, you'd also know that public transportation is top notch in Europe. Buses and trains are clean and new and offer service levels that, provided you aren't running late, means that if you see your bus you don't have to run...there'll be another in 10 minutes. The Ligne 1 in Paris has trains running at least once every minute. Train too full? Wait for the next one, it practically in the station before the first one leaves.

Meanwhile, here I live 90 km from where I work. I can drive and it'll take me 50 minutes or so or I can take the train and it'll take me about an 1h05m. But, in order for me to get to work in time, I have to leave my house 3 hours before I start work in order to get there in time!!! I'd happily pay more in taxes to provide a better transit system. At least in Massachusetts, we don't fear public transportation and stygmatise it as something only minorities and the poor use.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Jamie757
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:33 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:39 am

Just out of interest, what is the octane rating of normal petrol used in the US? Here in the UK our normal unleaded has an octane rating of 95.

Rgds.
"I feel like a turkey who's just caught Bernard Matthews grinning at him!"
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:56 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 40):
Their cars are a heluva of lot better than what's sold in N.A.

Debatable

Quoting LH423 (Reply 40):
you'd also know that public transportation is top notch in Europe. Buses and trains are clean and new and offer service levels that, provided you aren't running late, means that if you see your bus you don't have to run...there'll be another in 10 minutes.

You are painting with a very broad brush.

Ever ride Metro North or LIRR? Modern, clean equipment that runs on time.

Ever try NYC subway? It works well.

Our local buses run every 15 minutes.

All done without the confiscatory gas tax rates that Europe enjoys.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 42):

Ever ride Metro North or LIRR? Modern, clean equipment that runs on time.

Ever try NYC subway? It works well.

Our local buses run every 15 minutes.

All done without the confiscatory gas tax rates that Europe enjoys.

Yet the USA is trailing many years behind Europe regarding public transportation. You are talking about specific public transportation systems in the US, you are not seeing the whole picture. For example the South Florida area is only linked by a rail system called Tri-Rail which runs from 5AM to 10PM. One train leaving the station per hour and they dont run between 11AM and 1PM. How shitty is that?
Ever seen a subway in Austin, Buffalo, Sacramento, Orlando, etc? Cities of that size in Europe have excellent public transportation systems. The USA has a car mentality instead of public transportation, that's why you guys pollute our World the most. As many have said this is mainly because the US is the largest oil producer and you always had the oil to fuel your cars and also because people in the US are more spread out than in Europe.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Thumper3181
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 43):
For example the South Florida area is only linked by a rail system called Tri-Rail which runs from 5AM to 10PM. One train leaving the station per hour and they don't run between 11AM and 1PM. How shitty is that?
Ever seen a subway in Austin, Buffalo, Sacramento, Orlando, etc? Cities of that size in Europe have excellent public transportation systems

Except Miami, none of the cities you cite are all that populous. European cities also tend to be built up and the population and business center concentrated in a relatively small area. Sure you could raise taxes and put a great public transport system in these cities but since the population is spread out in the suburbs and the business districts are either relatively small or spread out, no one is going to want to use it just so they can walk 1/2 mile from the nearest stop to either their house or place of business. Another issue is land use. Most European (and existing American)systems where first built over 50 years ago. Back then there was land to create right of ways. That is no longer the case in a lot of the cities that could use mass transit in the States.

Lastly, there are plenty of buses as well as trains that go in to NYC where I live. Why bother with the inconvenience. My time is money, so if a car gets me somewhere faster then I take the car. If I have to travel to NY, Philadelphia DC, or Boston, I take the train. Anything short of NYC I drive. It is not a matter of car mentality it is a matter of using the right tool for the job.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting Jamie757 (Reply 41):
what is the octane rating of normal petrol used in the US? Here in the UK our normal unleaded has an octane rating of 95.

Regular unleaded is 89.
International Homo of Mystery
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting PeterPuck (Reply 25):
It should be even cheaper up here then?!

Hey, quote the right person next time.
Crye me a river
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 27):
I am greatly simplifying this for you.

What the hell was the point of this entire post? Do you honestly think you are explaining something to me that I do not understand? What you posted was exactly what I said goes on, the US protects Saudi to keep the market stable and add supply when a shortage is coming all to make sure their prices stay lower than everyone else. The market is adjusted to the US' needs, not anyone else. Other countries do not have these sweetheart deals and resort to taxing oil imports more to get the funding needed for various expenditures. Most poor countries have cheaper prices in their own markets to allow American/European owned companies to exploit it. Indonesia comes to mind, it is heavily slanted towards foreign producers making the most profit possible at the expense of the people, who, yes, are given cheaper oil otherwise they might look past that and get angry at how their labor is being used to fund outsiders when most of their country is beyond dirt poor
 
TheSonntag
Topic Author
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 45):
Regular unleaded is 89.

Ok thanks. In Germany, Normalbenzin (lowest available grade) is 91, Super is 95 and Super Plus is 98. Eurosuper is kind of an european standard (95 octane). Most modern cars need 95 octane fuel, which is available everywhere. My VW bug needs 87octane, so the worst fuel is good enough for my ancient car...

You also get Diesel everywhere, as 30-50% of all new cars are Diesel cars. Diesel engines are the most fuel efficient (even better than hybrid), but the emissions are slightly larger than they are for Gasoline cars. Diesel fuel is usually cheaper, as all Trucks in Europe have Diesel engines.

Many new cars require Super plus (98octane), which is the most expensive fuel. Shell offers something called V-Power (100octane), which is basically the same as Super Plus, just way more expensive.

There are some countries in Europe, however, where 98octane fuel is pretty rare. In Denmark it is not found often, for example, because it includes MTBE which is said to be harmful. Therefore, you can usually drive with 95octane as well if you have a car that requires 98octane, sometimes with the loss of some HP...

In short, you get 95 octane everywhere in Europe, and the lowest grade is 91 octane. All fuel is unleaded. Diesel is also available everywhere in best quality.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Is Fuel So Cheap In The USA?

Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:56 am

Our grades usually go:

Regular: 89 octane
Mid-Grade: 91 octane (usually)
Super/Premium: 93 or 95 octane (depending upon brand)

Each level up adds approximately 8-10¢ per gallon in price, and some brands differentiate themselves with additives like cleaning agents, etc.
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