Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:47 pm

"Three targets cited were in the United States, including plans to use hijacked airplanes to attack the West Coast in mid-2002 and the East Coast in mid-2003. The White House said at least one planner of the West Coast attack was a key figure behind the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

The third was the case of Jose Padilla, a former Chicago gang member who converted to Islam and allegedly plotted with top al-Qaida commanders to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" in a U.S. city. Padilla, whose plot never materialized, was designated an enemy combatant by Bush and is being held without criminal charge at a Navy brig in South Carolina.

The White House said the other seven attacks included plans to:

• Bomb several sites in Britain in mid-2004.

• Attack Westerners at several places in Karachi, Pakistan, in spring 2003.

• Attack Heathrow Airport using hijacked commercial airliners in 2003.

• Carry out a large-scale bombing in Britain in spring 2004.

• Attack ships in the Arabian Gulf in late 2002/2003.

• Attack ships in the Straits of Hormuz, a narrow part of the Persian Gulf where it opens into the Arabian Sea, in 2002.

• Attack a tourist site outside the United States in 2003."

Bush said Islamic radicals are seeking to establish a "radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia" with Iraq serving as the main front. He singled out Iran and Syria as "allies of convenience" for Islamic radicalism.

Pentagon officials released a letter Thursday evening they said was written from one terrorist leader to another that they said confirmed administration assertions that Iraqi insurgents have a detailed plan to force U.S. withdrawal from Iraq and create an Islamic state there.

Source - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051007/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_iraq

It is clear that the terrorists have gone from killing thousands to now only being able to kill dozens in their attacks.

Obviously there are those on this board who discount it because of their ideology but the reality of the situation seems to bear out what Bush is saying.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:24 pm

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
Obviously there are those on this board who discount it because of their ideology but the reality of the situation seems to bear out what Bush is saying.

I'm sorry, but not so fast. Based off of what happened on September 11, 2001, especially on Flight 93, and all the changes made to the psyche of the American individual since then, does anyone really think the same terrorist organization would waste the time, effort, and energy trying to repeat 9/11™?

And gosh, some of those seven other terrorist planned attacks. Bombs in Britain, attacking westerners in the Middle East, and attacking worships in the gulf. Deja vu?

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
It is clear that the terrorists have gone from killing thousands to now only being able to kill dozens in their attacks.

You can't say that. Terrorism has no form, no dimensions, or rules. Terrorism is terrorism. Whether it's one person killed or 1,000 people killed...the effects are still rippling.


Sorry, but I see this as nothing more than the latest effort to keep support/attention on the war in Iraq. Move the press away from Michael Brown, Harriett Mier, and those two hurricanes.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:38 pm

Pretty clear that they sat on this as a "just in case" measure for when public opinion got really low, but I hope people will analyze what they are actually saying nonetheless. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense when put into the context of our entire strategic defense against these types of attacks. Especially when you consider "foiled" might simply mean the FAA mandating the installation of secure cockpit doors.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
It is clear that the terrorists have gone from killing thousands to now only being able to kill dozens in their attacks.

I don't view this as so much of a victory. Apart from 9/11 (when we got caught with our pants down), I can't recall a terrorist attack ever killing thousands - a few dozen is pretty much avereage for a terrorist attack. In really bad cases, you can get a hundred or two, but a thousand is an extremely rare thing.

Obviously, the less people killed by terrorists the better, but I don't see much evidence that Bush or his policies are responsible for the decrease (and, mind you, there are still bombings going on on a fairly regular basis throughout the world). Being able to stop the large-scale attacks is good PR, but it should be noted that these are the ones that fail most often, since they have so many fragile parts that have to all work properly at the same time. I think that the fact that those plans fail is more due to common sense on the part of law enforcement than anything else.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MattCLE
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:59 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Quote:
It is clear that the terrorists have gone from killing thousands to now only being able to kill dozens in their attacks.

Obviously there are those on this board who discount it because of their ideology but the reality of the situation seems to bear out what Bush is saying.

The terrorists got lucky that they were able to kill 1000+ people on one day. Other than that day I can't think of another which that many people died due to a single terrorist attack.

The means of attack and the death toll of recent attacks is irrelevant. The fact that they are still able to carry out attacks and kill hundreds of people (London and Bali twice, Madrid, etc.) shows that they aren't giving up because they can't kill their desired amount.

-Matt
Bear Claw, Free Fall, A Gunner's View
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
does anyone really think the same terrorist organization would waste the time, effort, and energy trying to repeat 9/11

Yes - because we won't be expecting it.

That said: I think we ought to concern ourselves with more the bio and dirty bombs issues rather than airplanes and buildings.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
It is clear that the terrorists have gone from killing thousands to now only being able to kill dozens in their attacks.

You can't say that. Terrorism has no form, no dimensions, or rules. Terrorism is terrorism. Whether it's one person killed or 1,000 people killed...the effects are still rippling.

Agreed . . . . no way to measure that . . .

[Edited 2005-10-07 08:53:11]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
stlgph
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:53 pm

Yes. The numbers of fear and paranoia far surpass the death toll.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:58 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Yes - because we won't be expecting it.

Are you serious???
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Good point. But I still think it wouldn't work. The passengers would fight back, the hijackers wouldn't be able to get into the cockpit, etc.

You better believe I would . . . if I stand a chance at getting killed by sitting on my ass or getting killed by attacking the bad guy(s), I'm going with the attack.

I think it stands as good a chance now as it did in 2001. There may be variables, such as the passengers, different weapons, etc, but the chance is there and as viable.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
stall
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:17 pm

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
The White House said

I am no expert in counter terrorism but these kind of announcement seems more PR than anything less.

If plots were countered you either have arrested people and in this case the authorities bring them to a court or nobody has been arrested and you keep it quite to avoid attention and keep the intel work going on.

This kind of news seems to me just an attempt to improve the image of this administration.

Tough job after the WMD lies/ bad intel (pick one version) fiasco
Flying is fun
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:07 pm

I don't have any doubt that the administriation's focus has paid off in thwarting some attacks. But as mentioned, in counter terrorism you don't tend to advertise your efforts unless you've brought the ring leaders down. It really does feel more like spin than anything else.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
RobertNL070
Posts: 4160
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:29 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:14 pm

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Single-handed?

Regards, Robert
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
RobertNL070
Posts: 4160
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:29 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 11):
Single-handed?

No.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1191415

"Bush Says U.S. and Allies Foiled at Least 10 Serious Plots by al-Qaida in Last Four Years"

Regards, Robert
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):

 rotfl 

Quoting Stall (Reply 9):
I am no expert in counter terrorism but these kind of announcement seems more PR

You don't have to be an "expert" at anything to smell BullShit from a few thousand miles away Big grin


Whitehouse  spin  Whitehouse  spin  Whitehouse  spin  Whitehouse  spin  Whitehouse  spin 
This space intentionally left blank
 
Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
some of those seven other terrorist planned attacks. Bombs in Britain, attacking westerners in the Middle East, and attacking worships in the gulf. Deja vu?

First off I would say to you take a look at the dates. That does not mean that they would not try again. Who knows perhaps they had to scale back the attack in order to be successful.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
Whether it's one person killed or 1,000 people killed...the effects are still rippling.

The financial and psychological affects of having a successful large scale poison gas attack in one of the world's subway systems would far exceed that of a bomb going off in a resort that only kills dozens.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
I can't recall a terrorist attack ever killing thousands - a few dozen is pretty much average for a terrorist attack.

Ever hear of 9/11?

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Being able to stop the large-scale attacks is good PR, but it should be noted that these are the ones that fail most often,

It is also good for keeping people alive and keeping the financial markets calm.

Quoting MattCLE (Reply 4):
The terrorists got lucky that they were able to kill 1000+ people on one day. Other than that day I can't think of another which that many people died due to a single terrorist attack.

No but they have killed hundreds in attacks in the 90s, Bali 02, and Turkey 02???. All they got to do is get lucky once again and so far they haven't because of the work of the various military and law enforcement entities.

Quoting Stall (Reply 9):
If plots were countered you either have arrested people and in this case the authorities bring them to a court or nobody has been arrested and you keep it quite to avoid attention and keep the intel work going on.

“the White House initially would not give details of the 10 plots that Bush mentioned in his morning speech before the National Endowment for Democracy, saying some information remained classified. But in the evening, the White House released a fact sheet with a brief, and vague, description of each.”

“The third was the case of Jose Padilla, a former Chicago gang member who converted to Islam”

The glass is half full.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:55 am

Add Thumper to the list of Bush apologists.

I don't doubt we've thwarted terror attacks, Thumper, but do you think none were thwarted during Reagan's years, or Bush 41's, or Clinton's? I'm sure our intel stopped some attacks, even before 9/11.

So to thump your chest in the name of the administration that they've stopped some attacks (with, I might add, the help of many friends-some who we've crapped on after Iraq, btw), I think it's safe to say others pre 9/11 were stopped.

I dont' think we're any safer, any more secure since 9/11. We've wasted billions on DHS, TSA, we've crapped on the rest of the world over Iraq, and sqandered a ton of good will since that time.

We've stopped attacks. Great. Doesn't mean Bush is doing a good job.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
stlgph
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
First off I would say to you take a look at the dates.

What's so special about the dates listed?

This past summer. London. Subway.

And Madrid just a hop skip and a jump on the calendar ago.

Ring a bell?

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
The financial and psychological affects of having a successful large scale poison gas attack in one of the world's subway systems would far exceed that of a bomb going off in a resort that only kills dozens.

maybe you missed all this...

From Reply #1
"You can't say that. Terrorism has no form, no dimensions, or rules. Terrorism is terrorism. Whether it's one person killed or 1,000 people killed...the effects are still rippling."


Remember, whatever happens, be afraid. Paranoia is patriotic!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2291
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
Paranoia is patriotic!

Definitely is in this country, and it's the White House spin machine that's spreading the manure.
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:19 am

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

It's amazing to me that the Bush supporters on this website and elsewhere continue to accept his statements on face value. Bush has told us all so many fish stories over the years; it’s really hard for me to take him seriously anymore. Until someone, outside this administration can corroborate these events, I’m inclined to think it’s just more lies and bullshit presented to us by a man with zero credibility who is attempting to justify his failed policies and spectacularly bad judgment.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:48 am

Yeah Dubya, pound your chest for those "successes". Let's look at the attacks you didn't stop in your "War On Terror". The two Bali bombings, the two London Subway attacks (even though the second one was a dud), the Madrid attacks, and the numerous attacks in Iraq. No matter what he claims, it'll take another attack on American soil (the terrorists will be able to slip one past the goalie eventually) to prove that no matter what our gov't does, there will always be a chance of an attack. And who's to say that Islamic terrorists are collaborating with domestic groups here in the US? It has been rumored that Dirty Bomb suspect Jose Padilla is John Doe #2 of the Oklahoma City Bombing; and that the OKC bombing was a joint attack by Islamic terrorists and the white power/neonazi/militia movement. With there being a number of Muslims of African descent or immigrants in America, they can better blend in cities than a Muslim of Middle Eastern or even Asian heritage.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:00 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
It's amazing to me that the Bush supporters on this website and elsewhere continue to accept his statements on face value.

Exactly. Why is that?

Are they afraid if they critisize him, it somehow diminishes them as Americans?

Are they so beholden to their political ideology that criticism simply isn't an option?

Or do they REALLY believe this guy, every time he speaks?

Tell me, what in his record makes ANYONE believe this guy? Everything he's touched has been a disaster, and it's incredible that so many people (fewer and fewer in this nation) still believe this guy everytime he speaks.

Take his pontifications on Iraq: there are still people on here, and thorughout the nations who buy the notions that 1. Iraq has buried or shipped out all these WMD we can't find; 2. That, as Cheney said as recently as this spring, that Iraq had a hand in 9/11. Neither are true; neither have anything to validate them, but these Bush ass-kissers still believe it.

It's amazing.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:05 am

Errm - OK. Now prove it.

Sad but true - Bush has so little credibility these days, if he said the sky was blue I'd still go outside and check.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Exactly. Why is that?

Are they afraid if they critisize him, it somehow diminishes them as Americans?

Are they so beholden to their political ideology that criticism simply isn't an option?

Or do they REALLY believe this guy, every time he speaks?

I think those reasons explain some of it. I also think many of them realize that the possible consequences of a failed policy in Iraq are so severe that “losing” is simply unthinkable. Many of them react to that possible eventuality by rationalizing and equivocating their position rather than face an unpleasant reality.

For many of them the issue of pride also plays an important role. It’s very difficult for any of us to admit that someone we strongly support has made a serious error. I think going to war with Iraq is the most serious foreign policy mistake this country has made in my lifetime (44 years). It has created a distrust of our country that will last for decades. It will take a long time for some people to admit that; others never will.

Even though I’m not a Bush supporter, and I opposed our invasion in the first place, I find myself engaging in some of that same kind of wishful thinking. Somehow I hope that we can succeed in Iraq, or at least not fail terribly. Somehow I hope the honor and integrity of my country can be restored, or at least not diminished further. I can see how someone who is a big fan of Bush and his war would think those same things and cling to them even more strongly.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:21 am

This is the same type of disillusionment with the government as what happened during Vietnam and Watergate. Unfortunately, it just allows politicians to do whatever they want as the publics expectations are so low or they aren't even paying attention to actually make them accountable.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Are they afraid if they critisize him, it somehow diminishes them as Americans?



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Are they so beholden to their political ideology that criticism simply isn't an option?



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Or do they REALLY believe this guy, every time he speaks?

yes. because they are paranoid. and don't forget, paranoia is patriotic! love Je$u$
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 22):
Somehow I hope the honor and integrity of my country can be restored, or at least not diminished further.

That's what the whole world wants. If we have to have only one superpower, its a shame if that superpower has to be run by an asshole. But you guys voted for him again (well, 52% of you did) !!

But don't worry, we're patient, we don't mind waiting  Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Thread starter):
Obviously there are those on this board who discount it because of their ideology but the reality of the situation seems to bear out what Bush is saying.

I agree. And before I could even get a good comment in, you can see how many idiots have already replied to this thread. This is always going to be the case, though, because there will never be enough credit given to the prevention of attacks as opposed to the crusifixion of a leader if there is a failure.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
does anyone really think the same terrorist organization would waste the time, effort, and energy trying to repeat 9/11™?

By all means, YES. Where the hell have you been over the past 4 years?

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):
But as mentioned, in counter terrorism you don't tend to advertise your efforts unless you've brought the ring leaders down.

You do when people won't shut the f*ck up about how much you've failed. If people were constantly going on about how much you failed at something, don't you think that after a while you might want to clue them in on what you have really been doing?

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 13):
You don't have to be an "expert" at anything to smell BullShit from a few thousand miles away

No, Ted, you don't. And you don't have to be an expert to see a poor disgruntled man going through a mid-life crisis who finds joy in constantly flinging his own dung.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 19):
Yeah Dubya, pound your chest for those "successes". Let's look at the attacks you didn't stop in your "War On Terror".

So now he's responsible for protecting the ENTIRE world from every terrorist attack? I mean come on.........how dumb does this get.

Quoting B744F (Reply 23):
This is the same type of disillusionment with the government as what happened during Vietnam and Watergate.

 crazy 
Crye me a river
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):
And you don't have to be an expert to see a poor disgruntled man going through a mid-life crisis who finds joy in constantly flinging his own dung.

What an unkind thing to say about the president.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 27):
What an unkind thing to say about the president.

I had a feeling that would be twisted a little.  Big grin
Crye me a river
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):

No, Ted, you don't. And you don't have to be an expert to see a poor disgruntled man going through a mid-life crisis who finds joy in constantly flinging his own dung.

It's a lot more acceptable to my wife then the redhead down the street who just graduated Highschool Big grin
This space intentionally left blank
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 28):
I had a feeling that would be twisted a little.

Debate like an adult and not like a child and people will respect your words.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 14):
Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
I can't recall a terrorist attack ever killing thousands - a few dozen is pretty much average for a terrorist attack.

Ever hear of 9/11?

Reading can be very useful sometimes.  Yeah sure Let me put it in bold for you:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Apart from 9/11 (when we got caught with our pants down), I can't recall a terrorist attack ever killing thousands

Yes, I remember 9/11 quite well, thank you. Being five blocks away from the WTC at the time tends to make it easy to remember.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
I don't doubt we've thwarted terror attacks, Thumper, but do you think none were thwarted during Reagan's years, or Bush 41's, or Clinton's? I'm sure our intel stopped some attacks, even before 9/11.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
We've stopped attacks. Great. Doesn't mean Bush is doing a good job.

 yes  That's what it comes down to.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:17 am

I, like many others, don't see any credibility left in this administration. It's pretty easy to gather a tiny bit of intelligence that someone might be planning something, see that the plan is going nowhere or is a bluff, and then take credit for "thwarting" an attack. Or to torture a confession out of someone and use that as evidence that some major attack was really going to occur. Especially if you show no proof of your claims or sources, or what it means to "thwart."

But OK, let's assume the president is telling the truth about intelligence foiling these plans. In that case:

TWO QUESTIONS:

1.) How many of these thwarted attacks were actually planned because our Iraq invasion swelled the ranks of terrorist organizations by increasing hatred of the US and decreasing stability in the Middle East? If you cause a swell in terrorist activity and then prevent some of the results, are you ahead of where you were at first, or behind? Because That seems to be what Bush is trying to take credit for... (At least in Britain, it is generally acknowledged that the UK's participation in Iraq was what was used to recruit and motivate the tube bombers from July.)

2.) Let's say you don't accept the hypothesis in question 1 (although I believe there is compelling circumstantial evidence that this is the case--e.g. swelling support for Islamic fringe parties in countries such as Pakistan, where those parties had previously been considered marginal crazies but have now become mainstream). OK, so let's say you don't accept the claim that Iraq has made us directly less safe by making it easier for terrorist organizations to recruit. I still ask you this second question: if we had put the 200 billion dollars plus and counting that this war is costing us entirely into diplomatic work and better intelligence work, and into actually stabilizing Afganistan rather than letting them slip back toward civil war and warlordism, wouldn't we had thwarted MORE attacks?
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):
You do when people won't shut the f*ck up about how much you've failed. If people were constantly going on about how much you failed at something, don't you think that after a while you might want to clue them in on what you have really been doing?

Absolutely - this Administration's combined policies have resulted in a massive increase in global terrorism, so I fully expect this Administration to try and deflect some of the heat they're receiving by pulling together some vague references to the few items that they've prevented. It's par for the course.

I said in my post, I don't doubt that they have stopped some attacks, just like every administration in my memory probably has. I'm not impressed by this list, because if anything it highlights the fact that those that plan and implement these attacks are just as strong, if not stronger, than ever, and Bush and crew have done precious little to take them out permanently.


Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):
So now he's responsible for protecting the ENTIRE world from every terrorist attack? I mean come on.........how dumb does this get.

And yet, in his list of accomplishments, 7 of the 10 are indeed non-US targets

Again, if Bush wants to restore credibility - bring the actual heads of the organization to justice, show a decrease in the number of attacks, hell, even successfully prosecute a few terrorists, but don't throw up a list that while most likely true, can't be substantiated, and stands in stark contrast to all of the successful attacks that have occurred in the last couple of years.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13475
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:07 am

I presume God told Dubya how to foil these terroist attacks?  duck 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:28 am

Bonnie Tyler knows how to sing it!!!

--------------------------------

Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the gods?
Where’s the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds?

I am THE white knight upon a fiery steed!
Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need

I am a hero
I'm gonna be your hero 'till the end of the night
I’m gonna be strong
I’m gonna be fast
And I’m always fresh from the fight

I am a hero
I’m gonna be your hero 'till the morning light
It’s me to be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And I believe I’m larger than life
Larger than life.

Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There’s someone worshipping me.

Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
I’m that superman to sweep you off your feet.

I am a hero
I'm gonna be your hero 'till the end of the night
I’m gonna be strong
I’m gonna be fast
And I’m always fresh from the fight

I am a hero
I’m gonna be your hero 'till the morning light
It’s me to be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And I believe I’m larger than life
Larger than life.

Up where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightening splits the sea
I could swear there is someone somewhere
Who'll blindly follow me.

Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I crave absolute power
Like a fire in my blood.

I am a hero
I'm gonna be your hero 'till the end of the night
I’m gonna be strong
I’m gonna be fast
And I’m always fresh from the fight


I am a hero
I’m gonna be your hero 'till the morning light
It’s me to be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And I believe I’m larger than life
Larger than life



Larger than life!

------
edited to give Bonnie her due. Honey, George W. loves ya.

[Edited 2005-10-08 01:30:35]
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:38 am

So many fools so little time.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Add Thumper to the list of Bush apologists.

No Falcon, not at all. I am not happy with many of the things he has done as president. In fact I was so disgusted with my choices last time around I almost did not vote. In the end I did and I held my nose doing it. You on the other hand are so blinded by your hatred for Bush it would be comical if it wherent for the fact that it plays right in to the terrorists hands.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
I don't' think we're any safer, any more secure since 9/11.

Just another bellybutton with an opinion not based in hype and not facts.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
What's so special about the dates listed?

This past summer. London. Subway.

They pre date this summer. Read it again.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
Remember, whatever happens, be afraid. Paranoia is patriotic!

Perhaps you are afraid, I and millions of other Americans are not. At least not of terrorism. People like you do concern me though.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 19):
Yeah Dubya, pound your chest for those "successes"

With people like you he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. It really doesn't do much for your credibility.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Are they afraid if they critisize him, it somehow diminishes them as Americans?

Not at all. Want some, here goes; He was late in realizing Katrina was going to overwhelm the local authorities. He has allowed too many jobs to be sent overseas. He pushed CAFTA and is a defender of NAFTA and the WTO. He let that idiot Colin Powell screw up negotiations with the Turks prior to the Iraq liberation. Ha allowed the liberation to take place without being able to open a northern front through Turkey. He underestimated what it would take to win the peace in Iraq. Everytime he speaks I cringe. He looks like a chimpanzee.

That said considering the shit hand he was dealt due to Clinton's lack of focus he is doing okay.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Or do they REALLY believe this guy, every time he speaks?

Only when there is no apparent reason for him to lie. He is not running for re-election and Cheney is not running for President.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
Sad but true - Bush has so little credibility these days

Playing right in to the terrorists hands.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 22):
For many of them the issue of pride also plays an important role

No actually it's embarrassment about US "citizens" like you.

Quoting B744F (Reply 23):
This is the same type of disillusionment with the government as what happened during Vietnam

Yup. History repeats itself. Once again the only way to US defeat is through disillusionment. Care to add to it?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
if that superpower has to be run by an asshole.

Yeah , like that arrogant jerk Chirac is some prize. Last I looked the EU is run by a giant cabal of assholes. People living in glass houses should not throw stones.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 32):
, like many others, don't see any credibility left in this administration.

Yet another useful infidel. Plays right in to there hands.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 32):
1.) How many of these thwarted attacks were actually planned because our Iraq invasion swelled the ranks of terrorist organizations by increasing hatred of the US and decreasing stability in the Middle East?

HAHAHAHA. there where literally dozens of major terrorist attacks during Clinton's administration. The Cole and WTC where attacked long before we liberated Iraq. In fact did you ever consider that Iraq has become a mecca for terrorists? I prefer to kill them 6000 miles away rather than on Main Street. Put in simple terms it's called draining the swamp. I know it may be a bit subtle for you to understand but try.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 32):
entirely into diplomatic work and better intelligence work

Yup, those terrorists really respect diplomacy. People who fly airplanes into buildings tend to disregard diplomacy. Perhaps you should read the Quaran.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 33):
Absolutely - this Administration's combined policies have resulted in a massive increase in global terrorism,

There was more prior to 2002.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 33):
I'm not impressed by this list,

What a surprise.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:08 am

Did you think that any of the Bashers would give one iota of credit to the President or the administration?

The best your'e gonna get is damnation through faint praise. If you support the administration you're going to be called a toady or mindless.

I'm in Ormand Beach Florida this weekend catching a quick little bit of beach and just don't feel like  banghead . So keep bashing, keep accusing, and reinforce your own feelings of distaste by inflating and aggrandizing the bad and ignoring the good.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 37):
So keep bashing, keep accusing, and reinforce your own feelings of distaste by inflating and aggrandizing the bad and ignoring the good.

The problem is that they are so blind they do not realize that they are doing more harm than good.
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:21 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
There was more prior to 2002.

Your right, from 2001 to 2002 attacks dropped almost in half, which coincides directly with our (and the worlds) heightened focus after 9/11. But funny thing, starting in 2003, (hmm, what happened in 2003?) attacks are on the rise again.

So the only conclusion that I can draw is that while we were focused on terrorism (2001 - 2003), we were successful in making a significant dent in the number of attacks, but since we've become mired in Iraq, attacks are on the way up again. Based on this I'm supposed to feel like this administration is doing a good job fighting terrorism?

As for your other comments - gee personal attacks instead addressing the content - what a surprise. . .
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
No actually it's embarrassment about US "citizens" like you.

...and what exactly are your contributions to our country other than crying like a little girl on an internet forum?
WhaleJets Rule!
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:34 am

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
Playing right in to the terrorists hands.



Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):

No actually it's embarrassment about US "citizens" like you.



Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
Yet another useful infidel. Plays right in to there hands.

With accusations like these against anyone who criticizes the current administration, you show yourself to be an extremist who would have happily saluted der Fuehrer in WWII and accused those didn't of treachery. It isn't usually worth arguing with people who show themselves to be this far gone, however I'll attempt to roll the stone up the hill like Sysiphys at least once.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
HAHAHAHA. there where literally dozens of major terrorist attacks during Clinton's administration.

No denying that. And there were also many attacks thwarted then. However, do a tally and you'll find the number terrorist attacks around the world has increased significantly since the current administration's Iraq war began.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
we liberated Iraq

How can you use that expression with a straight face, at least in the past tense? If you think it's great there now, I dare you to go live there. I dare you even to fly in to Baghdad and hang out for a few hours. Yes it is so free and safe there now...

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
Yup, those terrorists really respect diplomacy. People who fly airplanes into buildings tend to disregard diplomacy.

Hey, genius, message for you and your president, since it doesn't seem to cross either of your minds. I'm not talking about about "diplomacy" with "terrorists." I'm talking about taking advantage of the goodwill we had after 9/11 to use diplomatic efforts with other established governments to catch and thwart terrorists, rather than antagonizing our allies and hampering efforts for much international cooperation on this front.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
Perhaps you should read the Quaran.

No perhaps YOU should. If you think the Koran justifies flying airplanes into buildings you are sadly mistaken.

[Edited 2005-10-08 02:39:16]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
Bush has told us all so many fish stories over the years; it’s really hard for me to take him seriously anymore. Until someone, outside this administration can corroborate these events, I’m inclined to think it’s just more lies and bullshit presented to us by a man with zero credibility who is attempting to justify his failed policies and spectacularly bad judgment.

Clinton=Monica

Bush41=No recession

Reagan=Iran/Contra

Carter=Hostages

Ford=Well, Ford was just Ford

Nixon=Cambodia

Johnson=Vietnam

Kennedy=Bay of Pigs

Should I keep going? Suffice to say you should not blindly trust any one government figure. Anything a public official says should be checked and verified by someone from outside the government. That used to be the presses job until they decided to take sides. BTW, his policies are not spectaculary bad nor have they failed, yet. Also, Treasury is predicting a windfall in taxes this year, even with those evil tax cuts still in place!
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting N229NW (Reply 32):
I still ask you this second question: if we had put the 200 billion dollars plus and counting that this war is costing us entirely into diplomatic work and better intelligence work, and into actually stabilizing Afganistan rather than letting them slip back toward civil war and warlordism, wouldn't we had thwarted MORE attacks?

Ummmm, Afghanistan is voting and making progress. There are still elements in the area that would like to bring back the Taliban but you certainly don't see the majority, or even a substantial minority out marching in the streets for their return.

As to Iraq, what is the population of that country, something like 13 million, maybe more? If a bomb goes off in the northern part of the country it certainly doesn't affect the day for the people in southern part of the country. You could say the same for Bagdad. If we did nothing but report the rapes and murders in one large American city, day after day, what do you think the impression of this country would be after a few months? Yet that is the reporting we accept from virtually all the major news outlets in this country.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Carter=Hostages

What did Carter have to do with the hostages? That was the rogue CIA who pissed off the extremists in Iran

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 39):
Your right, from 2001 to 2002 attacks dropped almost in half,

Not true

Quoting DL021 (Reply 37):
and aggrandizing the bad and ignoring the good.

Ignoring what good? That the government DID THEIR JOB? BRAVO! But don't be surprised when questions arise, suddenly we hear about foiled plots when the integrity of the administration gets called into question once again. How can you NOT focus on all the bad? There is just so much

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
Yup. History repeats itself. Once again the only way to US defeat is through disillusionment. Care to add to it?

Defeat an unjust war where thousands of people, many innocents, die, for what? I don't need to add to it, this simpleton "you're either with us or against us..." nonsense is exactly what allowed an extremist such as Hitler and Stalin to rule with an iron fist and the blind patriots went along with every decision no matter how good or bad.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Kennedy=Bay of Pigs

In all fairness, that was an Eisenhower deal. Kennedy didn't even know about it until things had gone bad.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Should I keep going? Suffice to say you should not blindly trust any one government figure. Anything a public official says should be checked and verified by someone from outside the government.

To bad the Bush bashers don;t do that.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 44):
What did Carter have to do with the hostages? That was the rogue CIA who pissed off the extremists in Iran

Actually it was the Shah and his secret police, but aftwards Carter could not be honest with the American people and admit that there had been plenty of warning on what was to come and yet he did nothing to try and stave it off.


In all fairness, that was an Eisenhower deal. Kennedy didn't even know about it until things had gone bad.

Well the planning and training were certainly done under Eisenhower, but the actual mission was performed under Kennedy's watch and he was the one who was advised and decided not to provide air support, which had been promised, and doomed the entire affair to failure.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 46):
To bad the Bush bashers don;t do that.

Yeah but in all fairness the Clinton bashers don't do it either. It's a symptom of the litigation society we live in. No one wants to be percieved as "wrong", or admit that someone else might have a better idea and as a result nothing much gets done. Although I have to admit I'm a big fan of gridlock. I wish we had a Congress that was only in session for 3-6 months a year, Lord knows how much money we might save.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Thumper3181
Topic Author
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 47):
Yeah but in all fairness the Clinton bashers don't do it either.

Clinton had different problems. Bush may not be perfect, but he has not perjured himself.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 47):
I wish we had a Congress that was only in session for 3-6 months a year, Lord knows how much money we might save.

Agree 100 percent.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush:US Foiled At Least 10 Terror Plots

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 22):
I think those reasons explain some of it. I also think many of them realize that the possible consequences of a failed policy in Iraq are so severe that “losing” is simply unthinkable.

Excellent point, and the consequences of losing there are enormous: like Twin Islamic Republics that want our asses whenever they can get it; like another generation of hatred from Muslims everywhere; like further cost of our credibility; and, I hate to say it-and this may boether him more than anything-like losing the White House in '08.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
That's what the whole world wants.

Unfortunately, JGPH1A, you're dealing with a mindset in neoconservatism that thinks the opposite-that the rest of the world wants us to fall on our faces, and I don't think Europe wants that; I don't think Russian wants that; I don't think any truely responsible nation wants that. One reason for such anger at Bush is the fact that, since the end of the Second World War, the U.S. HAS had a reputation of being for what is right; that the U.S. didn't throw around it's power against a weak nation, as the USSR did for 7 decades; that it didn't have a problem with honest dissent among friends, as long as common ground could be found.

All that was thrown out the window with this arrogant, ignorant group of people led by this president, and led by this cold, uncompromising ideology that is neoconservatism. And it will take at least through the second decade of this century to fully clear up our name-if the right people are elected when this man goes home to the ranch for good. The damage he has done the United States. its rep and its good name is staggering, and will take a long time to repair.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):
And before I could even get a good comment in, you can see how many idiots have already replied to this thread.

So, we're idiots, for objecting to the failed policies of this president? Who's the idiot: the idiot (Bush), or the idiot that unblinkingly follows them.

No one, bucko, is an idiot, for opposing Bush. Do I think you're wrong for your unwavering support of a failed president? Yes. Do I think that makes you an idiot? No. I think it makes you wrong.

So such words will get you nowhere, and will further just show you as an ignorant person, nothing else.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 26):
By all means, YES. Where the hell have you been over the past 4 years?

Where have YOU been? 9/11 was a one-time shot, and probably could never happen again. I have trouble believing Mr. Bush when he says more such attacks were planned. With the heightened awareness in this nation, the chances of it even being tried were slim and none, and slim already left town.

But again, look at you: following this failed president without even questioning what he said, or even casting a critical eye towards what was said.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
So many fools so little time.

And fewer and few blind lemmings, Thumper. The sea isn't far away, friend-keep going in the same direction-right into the surf.

Maybe you should look in the mirror, Thumper.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
You on the other hand are so blinded by your hatred for Bush it would be comical if it wherent for the fact that it plays right in to the terrorists hands.

Ah, so now I'm responsible for terrorism. I see.

Listen closely, arsehole: my duty as a free man, in the United States, is to DISSENT from my government when I feel it's doing something wrong. Without DISSENT from us "idiots" and "fools", you're living back in the USSR, buddy.

Don't EVER equate what I do as a free man in freely dissenting with my government, as protected under the Conistition of the United States, with in any way, shape or form, condoning terrorism, or even supporting it in some backhanded way.

You can go right to hell with that kind of mindless thinking, BUCKO.

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 36):
That said considering the shit hand he was dealt due to Clinton's lack of focus he is doing okay.

Another person blaming Clinton for Bush's shortcomings. Talk about a dishonorable person, you're right up there.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 37):
Did you think that any of the Bashers would give one iota of credit to the President or the administration?

No, Ian, but I don't expect you to be a suck-up to Bush everytime we talk about this subject. I don't consider you, to borrow an old phrase from the pre Civil War South, a "fire eater" in any way, but on this subject, you're as bad as the neocons who blindly follow this failing president.

He has no credibility with more than 50% of the nation, Ian. The falsehoods and half-truths about the war on terror, 9/11 and Iraq are finally catching up to him, and will be the undoing of his administration, and it's albatross in the eyes of history. It's just too bad that the cresendo of doubt about this guy didn't take place late last October, then we'd be done with him.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 37):
So keep bashing, keep accusing, and reinforce your own feelings of distaste by inflating and aggrandizing the bad and ignoring the good.

There's nothing good about invading a helpless nation, Ian, tearing it to shreds, then fucking up what happens after that. We've screwed up since May 1 of '03, and that stunt on the Lincoln. There's NOTHING GOOD about what's going on in Iraq-NOTHING! It's a fuck-up, and it's becoming a dead-end street for us.

Quoting B744F (Reply 44):
What did Carter have to do with the hostages? That was the rogue CIA who pissed off the extremists in Iran

And then we have the other side of the political spectrum. Pardon me while I laugh my freaking ass off on that statement.  Silly


In all fairness, that was an Eisenhower deal. Kennedy didn't even know about it until things had gone bad.

Couldn't get the quote feature to work on that one. Not true. Kennedy was told about it before it happened. He initiated it, but then pulled out U.S. air support for the landings after he had committed to the "Uprising".

Quoting Thumper3181 (Reply 48):
Clinton had different problems. Bush may not be perfect, but he has not perjured himself.

No, he just sent us to war that has cost over 2000 American lives over false pretenses. Now, YOU tell me what is worse. If you say lying about a blow job, then I have absolutely no respect left for you.
Work Right, Fly Hard

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests