AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:15 pm

This was on Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC last night, and raises some interesting questions between the timing of a political crisis and the calling of a terror alert. All 13 cases are documented and commented upon at the following link:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

Secaucus - Last Thursday on Countdown, I referred to the latest terror threat - the reported bomb plot against the New York City subway system - in terms of its timing. President BushÕs speech about the war on terror had come earlier the same day, as had the breaking news of the possible indictment of Karl Rove in the CIA leak investigation.

I suggested that in the last three years there had been about 13 similar coincidences - a political downturn for the administration, followed by a "terror event" - a change in alert status, an arrest, a warning.

We figured weÕd better put that list of coincidences on the public record. We did so this evening on the television program, with ten of these examples. The other three are listed at the end of the main list, out of chronological order. The contraction was made purely for the sake of television timing considerations, and permitted us to get the live reaction of the former Undersecretary of Homeland Security, Asa Hutchinson.

We bring you these coincidences, reminding you, and ourselves here, that perhaps the simplest piece of wisdom in the world is called "the logical fallacy." Just because Event "A" occurs, and then Event "B" occurs, that does not automatically mean that Event "A" caused Event "B."

But one set of comments from an informed observer seems particularly relevant as we examine these coincidences.

On May 10th of this year, after his resignation, former Secretary of Homeland Security Ridge looked back on the terror alert level changes, issued on his watch.

Mr. Ridge said: "More often than not we were the least inclined to raise it. Sometimes we disagreed with the intelligence assessment. Sometimes we thought even if the intelligence was good, you donÕt necessarily put the country on (alert)É there were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said 'for that?'"

Please, judge for yourself.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:37 pm

I saw this report last night and the post of it on MSNBC.com. It is an interesting point about the 'coindinices' of problems in the Bush Administration and then a raising or the terror threats, arrests or warnings. The worst part of it is that it slowly erodes the public's confidence in the government, seeing the government as a 'Chicken Little'. Then if a real threat, it may be ignored and people will die.
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:36 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:43 pm

well anyone with half a brain could have figured this out after the first 3 or 4 incidents.

of course my comments supporting the claim lead me to be labeled a conspiracy theorist, or bush basher, or some other vast left wing conspiracy propagator.
 
AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting VSLover (Reply 2):
of course my comments supporting the claim lead me to be labeled a conspiracy theorist, or bush basher, or some other vast left wing conspiracy propagator.

Mmhmm, yes. That's why I thought I'd post a rather lucid recap of events, that was supported with cause and effect, when I ran across it.

I have a great disdain for conspiracy theories, but have a belief that the manipulation of popular opinion is a daily occurance.
International Homo of Mystery
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:54 pm

Great now we are wagging the Dog on the Republican side... Brilliant!!!
This space intentionally left blank
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:57 pm

From Wikipedia: "There are no published criteria for the threat levels, and thus no independent way to tell whether the current threat level is accurate. The evidence cited to justify changes in threat levels has been stated vaguely and its sources have seldom been revealed. This makes the system vulnerable to manipulation by government officials."

The whole system of the alert levels seems somewhat crude to me.

Why should a police department in Scottsbluff, Nebraska put additional cops on the beat just because the CIA suspects that a terrorist organisation is trying to smuggle radioactive material for a dirty bomb through a west coast port ?

I understand that the department of homeland security cant be specific in its public announcements if they are to avoid compromising their sources; nevertheless, there has to be a smarter way to do this.

[Edited 2005-10-13 16:59:24]
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:36 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:06 am

of course you have plenty of ammunition to go after bush without resorting to a washed-up sports anchorman with an audience of about 30 people. I'm sure you can put together a timeline like this marking terror alerts to days I had less than 5 hours sleep.


bush is spending us into oblivion and his latest supreme court appointment is an insult to intelligent people everywhere.
 
AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting VSLover (Reply 6):
I'm sure you can put together a timeline like this marking terror alerts to days I had less than 5 hours sleep.

Of course I could. But then then there would have been a chorus of "Link! Link! Prove it! Prove it!"  Wink
International Homo of Mystery
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: The Nexus Of Politics And Terror

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
Mmhmm, yes. That's why I thought I'd post a rather lucid recap of events, that was supported with cause and effect, when I ran across it.

Actually, I don't think what’s presented there establishes a cause and effect relationship at all. It’s still just a correlation; a very suspicious looking correlation I think, but the world is full of coincidences. More importantly, by suggesting there is a cause and effect relationship between these events, you are misidentifying the cause altogether.

What we need here is some evidence that someone in this administration ordered a terror alert(s) for political purposes. That is the cause in question, not the event that preceded it. The initial event or circumstance my well be a motivation, but it is the order that causes the alert level to be raised. We need memos, emails, phone records, or verbal testimony that documents such an order.

Having said all that, I suspect at least some of these events are linked. This administration has a long history of manipulating and using the fear of terrorism to strengthen its political position. I would also suggest to you that if, in fact, there have been orders given, that it’s just a matter of time before we find out about it because too many people would know that information to keep it secret indefinitely.
WhaleJets Rule!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, Google [Bot], ltbewr, N867DA, solarflyer22 and 29 guests