Falcon84
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Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:57 pm

Well, the GOP leaders in the Senate, failing again in oversight, and trying desperately to be yes-men to the Adminsitration, are angry with Senate Democrats for "forcing" closed-door session dealing with the failed intelligence leading up to the Iraq war.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/02/senate.iraq/index.html

Mr. Frist, what's a bigger affront to the U.S.: this closed-door session, or the fact we were conned into a war that had no justification or basis in reality? Again, Mr. Frist shows himself to be pretty much bereft of honor himself.

I do love the one picture in the story:



Sen Santorum seems to be eyeing an invisible cheeseburger or something in Frist's hand.  Big grin
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:03 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Sen Santorum seems to be eyeing an invisible cheeseburger or something in Frist's hand.

 rotfl 

I think everyone needs to know the answers . . . I have a big problem with closed door political meetings of any kind. Regardless, if this is what it takes to get the ball rolling - fine . . .
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ltbewr
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:04 pm

At least the Democrats are finally showing some backbone and principals in challanging the information used in an extortinate way by the neocons to get the USA into the war in Iraq. With the inditmet of Libby and continued investigations of the actions of the Executive branch as to the decision to go into Iraq, there is plenty of cause to force a through investigation. Even some Republicans, like Sen. Shelby, agree that an investigation is needed from what we know of the lack of proof of WMD in Iraq after we went into there. I hope all of the Democrats and some reasonable Republicans stick to this fight to find some truth as to how we got into the mess in Iraq.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
I think everyone needs to know the answers . . . I have a big problem with closed door political meetings of any kind.

Well ANC, my father, who taught American History for 30 years, made a pretty good point about having closed-door meetings now and then: it's a way to get compromise, and to make sure those who do compromise can save face with constiuents. Having everything in the open, as we do now, maybe be one of the very reasons we can't get any compromise in Congress anymore: because no one can safely compromise when the need to, because everything is on the record. And, if everything is on the record, the hard-core supporters of a given politician simply would not let them compromise out in the open.

I think maybe it's time we allow some more behind-the-scenes maneuvering. Maybe more would get done in Congress.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:11 pm

Hell, Falcon, I know WHY they have them, I just don't like them. Our government does enough sneaky shit without closing the door to the public . . .

And you know my feeling about being "in your face" so to speak . . . there's nothing I'll say behind your back that I don't have the balls to say to your face . . . that's called being honest and forthright . . . the fact they are trying to save face simply reiterates my contention that everyone is concerned about their party and their image and not concerned enough about the country and doing the job they elected to do . . .

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
And, if everything is on the record, the hard-core supporters of a given politician simply would not let them compromise out in the open.

 checkmark 

I get it, really . . . I get it. I don't have to like it, but I get it.
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Pope
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:17 am

I just don't know why this wasn't handled off the Senate floor as is 99% of the real business. If you've ever visit the Capitol, you'll see that most of the time the chamber is empty.

I for one don't know what the big deal is about this closed door session and why Frist went off the deep end. What if the Democrats held a meeting and nobody showed up? I think you could send in one Republican and raise the issue of a quorum and then the stunt would have resulted in absolute failure.

Reid would have come out and said that the GOP was refusing to address the issue of faulty intelligence and Frist could have responded by saying that he just wanted to hold the meetings out in public.

One good thing did come out of this. The democrats have indicated their support for using Senate rules to accomplish their political goals. Therefore, they shouldn't complain if the GOP does the same (i.e. the nuclear option). If the Senater rules can be used to forward a DNC agenda, they sure as hell can be used to support the GOP's issues.
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jaysit
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:29 am

Frist is the biggest sissy there is.

Most school yard bullies are, when you expose them for what they are.

And he was so funny playing Miss Scarlett O'Hara:

"Pon, my soul, never in my life have I been slapped in the face with such an affront."

I hope the fainting southern belle's over his case of the vapors, because he's going to need all the help he needs what with his stocks-sale scandal looming over his head.
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tbar220
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:32 am

This seems the only way to get the Republican's attention into the "slam dunk" case for war which was completely false as we all know. I don't like it because we should have more transparency in government but if its the only way to investigate this then it should be pushed forward at full speed. Its about time.

People haven't forgotten that we didn't find WMD's in Iraq. People haven't forgotten that there are thousands dead because of it.
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jaysit
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
People haven't forgotten that we didn't find WMD's in Iraq. People haven't forgotten that there are thousands dead because of it.

True.

But what's really important is that a BIG Girl from Tennessee has Nevuh-nevuh-nevuh been slapped in the face, like so.
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jetjack74
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:16 am

Let'em have their Closed-door sessions. It'll all be leaked to the general public anyway.
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Pope
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
But what's really important is that a BIG Girl from Tennessee has Nevuh-nevuh-nevuh been slapped in the face, like so.

I can't believe Frist is even thinking about running for POTUS. The guy has shown that he can't lead Senate Republicans, the SEC mess alone is enough to sink him, and he's got about as much charisma as Al Gore.
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Falcon84
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 5):
One good thing did come out of this. The democrats have indicated their support for using Senate rules to accomplish their political goals. Therefore, they shouldn't complain if the GOP does the same (i.e. the nuclear option).

Big difference, Pope, between USING the rules, that now exist, and CHANGING the rules, as the GOP wants to do in the case of it's Nuclear Option (now being called, I'm sure in jest, the "Constitutinal Option), on the case of a nominee.

Pretty disingenuous, comparing the two, Pope.
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TPASXM787
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Hell, Falcon, I know WHY they have them, I just don't like them. Our government does enough sneaky shit without closing the door to the public . . .

Ain't that the truth

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
"Pon, my soul, never in my life have I been slapped in the face with such an affront."

That is really funny. Fucking politicians, I swear.

Quoting Pope (Reply 10):
I can't believe Frist is even thinking about running for POTUS. The guy has shown that he can't lead Senate Republicans, the SEC mess alone is enough to sink him, and he's got about as much charisma as Al Gore.

Which is about as much as my left shoe. I can't believe he would run either. Howeer, unless something drastically positive happens, the Dems are gonna run away with 08 in a landslide never seen before.
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jaysit
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Let'em have their Closed-door sessions. It'll all be leaked to the general public anyway.

That's the whole idea. Or do you not get it?
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Falcon84
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 12):
Howeer, unless something drastically positive happens, the Dems are gonna run away with 08 in a landslide never seen before.

I don't think you'll see a Johnson v. Goldwater-type result, to be honest. There's still way too much "solid" in the South for the GOP, to say such a statement. I think the mideast states and midwest states: PA, OH, MI, IL WI, IA, MN, will be the key (throw out IN which is solidly GOP, and IL, which is usually steadfast Dem), along with Florida again, and that's where it'll be decided.

It'll be another close election, although not as close as the last two, I think.
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TPASXM787
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
It'll be another close election, although not as close as the last two, I think.

The Republicans had better come up with someone good that the Dems can't smash on his relationship with Bush.

I guess I'm just thinking from my perspective, when I'm pretty much disgusted with the current administration, I figure I'm not the only one that thinks so.
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Pope
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
Big difference, Pope, between USING the rules, that now exist, and CHANGING the rules, as the GOP wants to do in the case of it's Nuclear Option (now being called, I'm sure in jest, the "Constitutinal Option), on the case of a nominee.

The GOP will use the rule that exists to get a ruling from the chair on the acceptability of fillubustering Article II appointments. There is absolutely no distinction other than the one you're creating.

In fact, there currently is no rule, neither the Senate nor the presiding officer has ever addressed the matter. As it is a well accepted principal of law that the specific (when it exists) controls the general, by seeking a ruling on the matter a new (specific rule) will be created that will apply only in the instances where the conditions exists - i.e. the full Senate's consideration of Article II appointments.
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PHXFLY
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
(throw out IN which is solidly GOP,

The Dems could take IN if Bayh runs and gets the nom. He was a very popular gov in IN and is still very popular there as a Senator. Indiana could at least become a swing state.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
The GOP will use the rule that exists to get a ruling from the chair on the acceptability of fillubustering Article II appointments.

Yeah. Like a bunch of arrogant, whining crybabies, they'll try to CHANGE the rules to get their way, since they think they're the only game that matters.

I've said I'm against the Dems fillabustering Ailto's nomination, but I'm also against this brazen, arrogant "our way or the highway" stand by Frist and company, too.

They don't like the rules as they've been for 200 years or so, it should be too freaking bad for them.

But they're Republicans, so they can do whatever the hell they want, I guess.
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tbar220
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:12 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Let'em have their Closed-door sessions. It'll all be leaked to the general public anyway.

You cannot say/leak what goes on in a closed door session. You can be expelled from the senate for that (so I believe).
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kevi747
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
At least the Democrats are finally showing some backbone and principals in challanging the information used in an extortinate way by the neocons to get the USA into the war in Iraq.

Yes!! They need to stir up the pot a little and stop cowering in the shadows afraid to speak the truth.

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 12):
Howeer, unless something drastically positive happens, the Dems are gonna run away with 08 in a landslide never seen before.

I seriously doubt that. The majority of this country loves (and seemingly will forgive anything done by) the Republican party.
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TPASXM787
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 20):
I seriously doubt that. The majority of this country loves (and seemingly will forgive anything done by) the Republican party.

and I am a republican voter, but damn, these clowns even have me questioning it
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Falcon84
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 20):
I seriously doubt that. The majority of this country loves (and seemingly will forgive anything done by) the Republican party.

Recent popular opinion speaks to the opposite. I think they're growing tired of this arrogant dog-and-pony show, and the "we know best" attitude they have. Add to that suspect disaster efforts and a war going nowhere, despite the delusional naysayers on here, and the GOP has some trouble on the horizon, at least for '06.
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searpqx
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RE: Closed-Door Senate Session On Iraq War

Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:45 am

Frist's reaction was classic, and just confirmed what a dolt he is, but he did have one point right - it was a PR stunt by the Democrats. It was their very effective way of serving notice that they now feel confident enough to challenge Bush & Co. on prelude to and conduct of the war. It also very effectively moved the spotlight off of Alito, and back on to the Libby issue, keeping it in the forefront of the news.
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