jmc1975
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:53 am

This is very disturbing! The man wants a copy of a Bible on his own free will. If it were the other way around, there would be a huge outcry from the Muslim community, claiming injustice, intolerance, blah, blah, blah.....

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1127gitmo-bible27.html
.......
 
tmatt95
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:31 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:05 am

Hi,
I really don't understand why he cant have a Bible. It is not as if all Bibles come with a map of the prison and other tools to help the inmates escape. This is stupid and I hope that the man wins the request to gain access to a Bible,

Matt
 
cfalk
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:08 am

Of course, if you give him a bible, the ACLU will be all over you like flies on shit, saying that you are attempting to convert him to Christianity and using torture to do so.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:09 am

Would a country fighting in "God's name" (as the president has mentioned) deny giving the "enemy" a Bible?

I guess we can't have a 100 year war if the enemy keeps convertin'.  Yeah sure
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 3):
Would a country fighting in "God's name" (as the president has mentioned)

You have a source for that? I have not heard it.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:21 am

Okay....that was rather vague, sorry.

Correction: Would a country fighting "evildoers" deny a Bible to the enemy? Is that better?
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
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RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:34 am

The ACLU supports individuals' rights to practice religion as they see fit.


"The ACLU of New Jersey has dedicated itself to protecting the right of individual religious expression, including recently helping to ensure that jurors are not removed from jury pools for wearing religious clothing and that prisoners are able to obtain religious literature," noted ACLU of New Jersey Legal Director Ed Barocas. " http://www.aclu.org/religion/schools...20tr%20table%20class%20text%20href

If any organization is likely to support a prisoner's right to access religious literature it is certainly the ACLU despite what certain loud-mouth fact-deficient radio pundits would have you believe.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:41 am

I find it incredulous that some people will attack the ACLU at the drop of a hat when it is, in fact, the only organization who will defend their right to do so.
Dear moderators: No.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Thread starter):
The man wants a copy of a Bible on his own free will. If it were the other way around, there would be a huge outcry from the Muslim community, claiming injustice, intolerance, blah, blah, blah.....

-
Can you possibly explain why this report was nowhere in the media ?
Do you think that denying him a Bible is correct ?
Do you also believe that the Bible might "incite" him ?
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
Can you possibly explain why this report was nowhere in the media ?

Yes it was. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1127gitmo-bible27.html

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
Do you think that denying him a Bible is correct ?

Do you think that denying him a Quran is correct?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
Do you also believe that the Bible might "incite" him ?

How so?
.......
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 9):
Yes it was. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl....html

AZ Central may be a good thing, but is unknown in the world. That the Los Angeles Times is a GOOD newspaper is clear, I in the past sometimes had a look into their internet-issue and realize that. But it is NOT widely read outside the USA. I am astonished however that it, at least apparently, did NOT come up in CNN, NYT etc, from where it would have been copied by "overseas media" rather swiftly. I may be in an error in so far, as it may have been in them, but doubt it. And I am quite sure that it was NOT reported on the other side of the Atlantic.
-
True, the matter is neither a sensation, nor a disaster, nor outrageous, nor a scandal, but I think that the denial simply was WRONG .
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 9):
Do you think that denying him a Bible is correct ?

Do you think that denying him a Quran is correct?

NO

<>

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 9):
Do you also believe that the Bible might "incite" him ?

How so?

I have no idea. You have to ask the relevant authorities who apparently believe so (according to the report)
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:08 am

Quoting Nancy (Reply 6):
The ACLU supports individuals' rights to practice religion as they see fit.

Oh please. If one is a Christian or a Jew, the ACLU will be all over that person, especially if they want to pray in public, in school, or at work. They do no believe in religious freedom for Christians and Jews.

However, if the person however is a Muslim, then the ACLU will demand special accommodations for that person so they can pray toward the rock in Mecca however many times a day. If someone is one of the fringe "religions" like Wicca or whatever, then the ACLU will demand even more special treatment. After all, they sued a small town for opening their city council meetings with prayer and demanded it stop but at the same time sued another city because they wouldn't allowed a pagan to do the "prayer".
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
solarix
Posts: 839
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:56 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting Nancy (Reply 12):
The ACLU supports individuals' rights to practice religion as they see fit.

Then why can't we say "Merry Christmas" without being sued by them?
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting Solarix (Reply 13):
Then why can't we say "Merry Christmas" without being sued by them?

Please provide a report about that kind of lawsuit. Or are you just desperately trying to make a point?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:06 am

In this country we protect the minorities. Get used to it.
Dear moderators: No.
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):
Of course, if you give him a bible, the ACLU will be all over you like flies on shit, saying that you are attempting to convert him to Christianity and using torture to do so.



Quoting B757300 (Reply 12):
Oh please. If one is a Christian or a Jew, the ACLU will be all over that person, especially if they want to pray in public, in school, or at work. They do no believe in religious freedom for Christians and Jews.

I love it when the ACLU critics come out in droves. Anyone remember an incident during the 80s in Skokie, IL? There was a neo-Nazi group that wanted to demonstrate there and was being denied by the city. Who ended up representing them in court? Yes, the ACLU. The irony was that the lawyer was Jewish. Personally, I would rather the ACLU didn't represent scum like neo-Nazis, but it goes to show you that the organization doesn't take preference and is not an anti-Christian, anti-Right Wing group.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
aloges
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:39 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 14):
Or are you just desperately trying to make a point?

So I guess that must be it.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not I should once more try and join some political discussions in this forum. But then I read the first five to ten replies in the thread and all I get to see is name-calling, bashing and smearing of opposite opinions. That's when I close the thread and think to myself "It's just not worth it." That's happened quite a few times in the past weeks and I can only hope it will change for the better again. Maybe, just maybe some people can get off their "the left/right is evil" trips and remain with their feet on the ground.

In this example, why does the second reply have to smear the ACLU for something they'd supposedly do, something which would fit the stereotypes one individual has? No opinion is presented, no personal take on the situation, no mention of anything in the article, no nothing - just a stir-the-pot attack on a political group of which one member thinks it opposes his personal ideals.

WHY?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):
So I guess that must be it.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not I should once more try and join some political discussions in this forum. But then I read the first five to ten replies in the thread and all I get to see is name-calling, bashing and smearing of opposite opinions. That's when I close the thread and think to myself "It's just not worth it." That's happened quite a few times in the past weeks and I can only hope it will change for the better again. Maybe, just maybe some people can get off their "the left/right is evil" trips and remain with their feet on the ground.

In this example, why does the second reply have to smear the ACLU for something they'd supposedly do, something which would fit the stereotypes one individual has? No opinion is presented, no personal take on the situation, no mention of anything in the article, no nothing - just a stir-the-pot attack on a political group of which one member thinks it opposes his personal ideals.

What point are YOU trying to make.

Quoting David b. (Reply 18):
B757300 chimes in with his dumb-ass oppressed Christian comments as usual. Anyone surprised?

'Nuff Christian bashing please!  talktothehand 
.......
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 18):
What point are YOU trying to make.

that some people destroy any attempt at discussion with their knee-jerk polemics
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
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RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 18):

What point are YOU trying to make.

If you would stop huffing and puffing and get over the paranoia that around every corner is someone who is going to take away your religious freedom, all you need to do is read Aloges' words and you will know what point he is trying to make.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 20):
If you would stop huffing and puffing and get over the paranoia that around every corner is someone who is going to take away your religious freedom, all you need to do is read Aloges' words and you will know what point he is trying to make.

Thanks. I should have thought of that!
.......
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 7):
I find it incredulous that some people will attack the ACLU at the drop of a hat when it is, in fact, the only organization who will defend their right to do so.

Indeed. Kind of like their efforts to protect NAMBLA.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
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RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:25 am

So what all you people don't care when 100 copies of the Quran are denied to prisoners but its a high holy sin to deny 1 bible?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 23):
So what all you people don't care when 100 copies of the Quran are denied to prisoners but its a high holy sin to deny 1 bible?

No prisoners have been denied Qurans...
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
No prisoners have been denied Qurans...

How many people have posted on a.net that they should? Now how many of those are posting in this thread  Wink
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 22):
Kind of like their efforts to protect NAMBLA.

Unfortunately NAMBLA has the right to say whatever it wants, much the same way you do. Remember America isn't easy. We're an all-inclusive resort, and for some people that means they have to drop their prejudices just to function, because if you want to be called an American you have to be ready to call all your neighbors Americans too, and give them the same rights and privileges you enjoy.
Dear moderators: No.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:03 am

Well, all these people who are attacking the ACLU, they've had no proof or cases to back up the crap they're saying. Nancy provided a perfect example that shoots all your arguments down, amazing how fast the silence came.
NO URLS in signature
 
slider
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 27):
Well, all these people who are attacking the ACLU, they've had no proof or cases to back up the crap they're saying.

Go back and dig up the old ACLU thread- I posted plenty of stuff within that, which wasn't ultimately responded to, I might add since the radicals who wanted to spew about the absolute right to do what they want, when they want, couldn't factually debate the case on its merit.

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 26):
Unfortunately NAMBLA has the right to say whatever it wants, much the same way you do.

But they do not have the right to DO what they want to do, and that's in essence what ACLU is protecting- their right to have sex with young boys. It's disgusting, that's not freedom, it's perversion of the highest order, period.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Bible Denied To Gitmo Prisoner

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
But they do not have the right to DO what they want to do, and that's in essence what ACLU is protecting- their right to have sex with young boys. It's disgusting, that's not freedom, it's perversion of the highest order, period.

Of course not, no more than the KKK has the right to lynch blacks or Pat Robertson has the right to assassinate foreign heads of state or supreme court justices. But you are wrong to confuse the issues. Speech and actions are very different. The ACLU protects NAMBLA's right to talk, and the FBI keeps a close watch on their members. We can't afford to become a vigilante society. McCarthyism and witch hunts have no place in an enlightened nation.
Dear moderators: No.

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