martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:05 am

Just Finished watching it....... no surprises really.... went how the parties stated it would, so tomorrow an election will be calle dofr January.

Any comments?

Liberal for me again, I don't want a Bush-alike running our country!

M.
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:36 am

This is certainly going to be interesting! I expect the Liberals to have another minority. Really, what's the alternative?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Thread starter):
Liberal for me again, I don't want a Bush-alike running our country!

Oh yes...those Conservatives are just SO scary *roll eyes*. Oh look at that...you're from Toronto so am i really surprised? I don't know how much more it takes for you folks in Southern Ontario to wake up, and demand better.

I'll be supporting the Conservatives.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:45 am

Anyone actually believe that anything will change regardless of who gets in?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
A346Dude
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:51 am

Living in Ottawa, I tried to get into the gallery to watch the vote in person but it was FULL. Too bad because it would have been neat to see.

As for the election, I would like to see the Conservatives win, but I pretty much expect another Liberal minority unless the Conservatives run a really great campaign. I think they would fare best if they focus less on the scandal and more on the idea that they are a viable alternative. And I think Stephen Harper has to work on presenting himself as a kind, compassionate person if he wants any shot at running the country.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
WrenchBender
Posts: 1662
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Anyone actually believe that anything will change regardless of who gets in?

I have to agree with your rhetorical statement. The general apathy of the Canadian Public is under-whelming to say the least. Why aren't people mad at the findings of the Gomery enquiry ? Why aren't people mad at the state of the Canadian Forces ? Will a change in Gov't actually change anything ? Most politicians (world wide) are seen as callous, self serving, thieving Bas^4rds who really don't care for the people they supposedly 'serve'.

signed
Another disillusioned voter

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Anyone actually believe that anything will change regardless of who gets in?

Yes...apparently, using this type of attitude, we should just keep the Liberals in forever, forget about holding our government responsible for their actions and forget about government accountability. I think more Canadians than ever are agreeing that it is time for a change.

[Edited 2005-11-29 01:57:05]
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Thread starter):
Liberal for me again, I don't want a Bush-alike running our country!

As long as you don't get an Albertan conservative, you will be safe from any kind of Bush-alike.

As far as liberal v. conservative goes, I have a funny take on that. As a rather leftist, but not true socialist, American who has studied Canada in a comparative political and legal context, it is amazing how different our two countries are, even though they are very similar and joined at the hip. Take my girlfriend as an example. In Canada, she is a conservative, always supports the party and can't stand people like Chretien. In the US, she would have people calling her a communist for not being able to imagine a country without national/provincial health care, free and easy access to abortion, easy access to any and all birth control methods, free and effective public education that is affordable all the way through the graduate level, etc. It is an interesting prospective to look at.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 5):
Why aren't people mad at the findings of the Gomery enquiry ?

Well i know enough people that are mad about it. The problem is with these "Liberal loyalists" who are trying to do anything they can to hold onto power. They'll put the scandal into the corner and try and pass it off as 'no big deal'. Not to mention, i know enough people that are upset with other Liberal policies (same sex marraige, etc.) that will be changing their vote this coming election. Polls show the two parties neck in neck, so it should be interesting...
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:01 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
In Canada, she is a conservative, always supports the party and can't stand people like Chretien. In the US, she would have people calling her a communist for not being able to imagine a country without national/provincial health care, free and easy access to abortion, easy access to any and all birth control methods, free and effective public education that is affordable all the way through the graduate level, etc. It is an interesting prospective to look at.

While that may be true for some folks, many of us "Conservatives" up here also support the US Republicans and George Bush.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:02 am

My point is, the Liberals got in, and there is scandal after scandal after scandal, everyone is upset, everyone complains. When the Tories were in power before with Mulroney, it was the same thing. What's the difference?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:03 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 9):
many of us "Conservatives" up here also support the US Republicans and George Bush.

As a Canadian who has lived in the US for ten years, let me just say yuck. The best thing about moving back to Canada is going to be getting away from the Republicans and Bush.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
A346Dude
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
As far as liberal v. conservative goes, I have a funny take on that. As a rather leftist, but not true socialist, American who has studied Canada in a comparative political and legal context, it is amazing how different our two countries are, even though they are very similar and joined at the hip. Take my girlfriend as an example. In Canada, she is a conservative, always supports the party and can't stand people like Chretien. In the US, she would have people calling her a communist for not being able to imagine a country without national/provincial health care, free and easy access to abortion, easy access to any and all birth control methods, free and effective public education that is affordable all the way through the graduate level, etc. It is an interesting prospective to look at.

You're right, I think there's a huge shift in the political spectrum between the two countries. Our right-wing party, the Conservatives, are more left-leaning than the States' Democrats. Heck, in the US "liberal" is a dirty word, whereas here it's the name of the governing party!

[Edited 2005-11-29 02:07:35]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 9):
many of us "Conservatives" up here also support the US Republicans and George Bush.

Too bad.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 10):
My point is, the Liberals got in, and there is scandal after scandal after scandal, everyone is upset, everyone complains. When the Tories were in power before with Mulroney, it was the same thing. What's the difference

There is no difference. It is politics

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 11):
As a Canadian who has lived in the US for ten years, let me just say yuck. The best thing about moving back to Canada is going to be getting away from the Republicans and Bush.

Ah, the Harlot family. A reasonable one
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 10):
My point is, the Liberals got in, and there is scandal after scandal after scandal, everyone is upset, everyone complains. When the Tories were in power before with Mulroney, it was the same thing. What's the difference?

That that was a completely different Conservative party over 13 years ago...thats like complaining about a government from the 50's and using it for your excuse not to vote a party in.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 12):
You're right, I think there's a huge shift in the political spectrum between the two countries. Our right-wing party, the Conservatives, are more left-leaning than the States' Democrats. Heck, in the US "liberal" is a dirty word, whereas here it's the name of the governing party!

Well, around here, i know many who use 'liberal' as a dirty word. We are quite Conservative in some respects, and the 'huge shift' just isn't so big. I know alot of people who, without a doubt, would vote Republican.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Too bad.

Um...right.
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:12 am

Wow an Airliners first....We turned something that has absolutly nothing to do with the Americans into a Bush bash fest...  Smile

Now i for one am glad there is an election...even if Martin gets back in. At least the people will decide who they want and not the gov't. For once the gov't does not serve at it's will...

Here is some Canadian fence sitting at it's finest...While i do not like the liberals as they need to lose so they can go off and deal with corruption. IF they win they will not do anything. I do not like the conservatives either. Some issues that are huge for me are in their radar. Now the NDP is aother story. I just cannot vote for them having been born in ALberta.

Perhaps Green party or for once vote for the candidate and not a party...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
That that was a completely different Conservative party over 13 years ago...thats like complaining about a government from the 50's and using it for your excuse not to vote a party in.

I'm not using any excuse not to vote any party in or out. Just because the Tories haven't been in power for over 13 years, it doesn't change the fact the politicians are politicians and their agendas haven't changed much at all since the foundation of democracy.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
That that was a completely different Conservative party over 13 years ago...

13 years doesn't change the nature of politics. Patronage will always exist on both sides.

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
I know alot of people who, without a doubt, would vote Republican.

Every Canadian I know, conservative or liberal, wouldn't. I am sure there are a few, but again, Alberta.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Every Canadian I know, conservative or liberal, wouldn't. I am sure there are a few, but again, Alberta.

Well then i guess you don't know too many.
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:36 am

I like to call myself "a fiscal conservative", but I do admit that I do not trust Harper at all.

The NDP are *not* even an option in my mind, as Layton is such a media whore, it bugs me to no end.

What I find troubling is this:


1) The Liberals are, in my opinion, at this point very cocky and very smarmy. They honestly think that they cannot loose, and that pisses me off. It means that we don't get any good news ('we' being the public) until an election is called. Watch the tax cuts and rebates come flowing back folks. Just you wait.

2) There is no real alternative in the Conservatives. I waited in the last election to hear what Harper had to say (Being a 'fiscal-conservative'), but unfortunately he's resorting to the same game plan (so far) as he did last time, which was dirty politics, and name-calling. I waited to hear what his plan was if I helped elected him as leader of our country, and to be honest, there was nothing but crap there. Besides, if we had elected him, we'd be watching the CBC talk about the body-bags coming back from Iraq right now. I don't know if I trust *him*.

I EVEN Challenged my local MP when she called on our house personally, to tell me what their platform was, and all she could do was talk about the liberals. I didn't wnat to hear about the liberals, I wanted to hear what Harper was going to do for ME.

I think what you'll find is that we'll either end up with a minority Liberal, or minority Conservative government, and we're going to have another 12-17 months of a Go-nowhere, do-nothing government, and then a no-confidence motion will be called again.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen IN my opinion is that the liberals be returned to office for another few years, the Conservatives bump Harper out of the lead, and someone else step into view, someone who has some new ideas, and less of the crap-talk that politics in this country has turned to.

Quoting Basas (Reply 2):
Oh yes...those Conservatives are just SO scary *roll eyes*. Oh look at that...you're from Toronto so am i really surprised? I don't know how much more it takes for you folks in Southern Ontario to wake up, and demand better.

The problem that exists here in the GTA and Southern Ontario is that the Liberal government for years has pandered to the immigrant population. While there is nothing wrong with this IF it has furthered the cause, the problem exists wherein there are just sooo many immigrant families living in this area, that their votes tend to out-number the 'long-time' members of society here.

From what I've understood from reading up on past elections, is that the immigrant population tend to vote liberal in droves, which could be why the Liberals keep getting elected by means of Ontario.

And, as for your comment about the Conservatives being scary, it's nto the conservatives I'm scared of, it's Harper.

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 5):
Why aren't people mad at the findings of the Gomery enquiry ?

People are. Ask around. But the problem is that most Canadians FORGET that their VOTE is their VOICE. Most Canadians have the attitude of "Oh well, if we vote the conservatives in, we'll just end up with another corrupt government". That's the problem.

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 5):
Why aren't people mad at the state of the Canadian Forces ?

Most of the people who are among the voting age in Canada are from a time when war is fought in other countries. It's not something that's done here. Canadians don't realize that having a military is our ONLY way of remaining a soverign nation. Even Sweden, who is neurtral in the military sense, has a small military.

Without our military, we become another State to the US.

Having said that, I STILL think we made the right choice in not going to Iraq. My opinion has changed since the beginning of the war, however, knowing what I know now. (We were mislead.)

Quoting Basas (Reply 9):
While that may be true for some folks, many of us "Conservatives" up here also support the US Republicans and George Bush.

To speak for myself, not this Conservative. I do NOT believe in Religion mingling in the affairs of the government, like the Republicans do. I'm more in line with the Democrats when it comes to how money is spent, and how they tend to take care of the people of the country, versus the hard-lined, religious approach the Republicans have positioned themselves as.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
A346Dude
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 19):
the Conservatives bump Harper out of the lead, and someone else step into view, someone who has some new ideas, and less of the crap-talk that politics in this country has turned to.

Peter MacKay. I think the man would have a serious chance at forming a government.

Edit: Post 400! Yay!  Wink

[Edited 2005-11-29 02:42:20]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 19):
I think what you'll find is that we'll either end up with a minority Liberal, or minority Conservative government, and we're going to have another 12-17 months of a Go-nowhere, do-nothing government, and then a no-confidence motion will be called again.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen IN my opinion is that the liberals be returned to office for another few years, the Conservatives bump Harper out of the lead, and someone else step into view, someone who has some new ideas, and less of the crap-talk that politics in this country has turned to.

BINGO!
You saved me lots of typing.

Thanks.
G
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 20):
Peter MacKay. I think the man would have a serious chance at forming a government.

THANK YOU.. To Quote Canuckpaxguy, "BINGO!"

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 20):
Edit: Post 400! Yay!

By the way, thought i'd say congrats.. I'm approaching 600  Wink

Mike
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
seb146
Posts: 13918
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:22 am

Forgive an ignorant question from an American, but will you be electing a new Prime Minister in January? Paul Martin is the current PM, correct?

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:25 am

That is correct Seb. Well Jan or Feb depending on when he calls the election.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 24):
but will you be electing a new Prime Minister in January?

Not necessarily.

In Canada, your vote is for your local MP (Member of Parliament) who represents the interests of the voters in his/her riding on federal issues.

Most MPs are aligned with a political party, and the party with the most MPs elected "wins". The leader of that party becomes Prime Minister. (The Prime Minister is also an MP).

Mr. Martin was elected as leader of the Liberal party, by members of the Liberal party. Since the Liberals won more seats than any other party in the last election, Mr. Martin became Prime Minister. Since he is still the leader of that party, if the Liberals win more seats than any other party again, he will remain Prime Minister.

We have no party majority in our current government. Although the Liberal won more "seats" than any other party in the last election, they did not win 51% of the seats, therefore opposing parties can easily unite and out-vote the Liberals on legislative issues in the House of Commons.

That's what we're currently dealing with.

G
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 26):
Mr. Martin was elected as leader of the Liberal party, by members of the Liberal party. Since the Liberals won more seats than any other party in the last election, Mr. Martin became Prime Minister. Since he is still the leader of that party, if the Liberals win more seats than any other party again, he will remain Prime Minister.

Just a curious question to peopel who may know --

What happens if the PM-elect does NOT win in his/her own riding? Can another liberal MP-elect give up their seat for the PM-elect?

I'm pretty sure that's how it's done, but it came up tonite in family discussions!

Mike
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:04 pm

It happened in Alberta under Don Getty. He lost but the conservatives won..He ran in aonther by-election that someone gave up...

Not sure on a national scale what would happen...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 28):
He ran in aonther by-election that someone gave up...

That's exactly what happens.

The Prime Minister needs to be an MP otherwise he/she does not have a vote in the House of Commons. It would be pretty embarrassing if the party won but the leader of the party lost in their own riding....but it has happened.

Someone inevitably gives up their seat in order to allow the PM to run in a by-election.

G

[Edited 2005-11-29 04:25:09]
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vo

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:20 pm

I'm curious as to what will happen in Belinda Stronach's riding (Aurora / Newmarket). If you remember, she switched from the Conservative Party to join the Liberal party shortly after she was elected.

My university thesis was on Canadian electoral behaviour and I've always been fascinated by how we, as Canucks, vote. Obviously we technically vote for the MP in our riding, but some of us cast our vote based on our preference for the MP; some for the party; and some for the leader of the party.

I heard lots of grumbling about Ms. Stronach "crossing the floor", but I think the voters in her riding voted for HER moreso than they voted for the "Conservative MP". I wonder if she will be re-elected to her seat.

G
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:34 pm

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 30):
I heard lots of grumbling about Ms. Stronach "crossing the floor", but I think the voters in her riding voted for HER moreso than they voted for the "Conservative MP". I wonder if she will be re-elected to her seat.

I would certainly hope not. She has no business being in a political spot. I don't believe she cares about the party, the issues, or the people as a whole; what she does care about is advancing herself to superior spots in any party dumb enough to accept her. The Liberals were the ones willing to accept her as a cabinet member, and so she 'jumped' across the hall. I find it just as disgraceful that the Libs have made her a cabinet from the start, as are her actions for betraying her party, and the voters who voted for her to have a viewpoint on line with the Conservative Party. Being this dis-loyal to your constituents should not be allowed in our political system.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:39 pm

This election is a total waste of time... none of the opposition parties have any sort of attractive platform, so we're going to end up re-electing the same Liberal minority government once again... which is better than the thought of having Alberta's conservative whackos in charge...

It's really too bad all we have is a scandal plagued Liberal party, the whackie left union-loving NDP, and the neo-conservative Alberta Tories (or Conservative Party of Canada)... no one left to vote for.

Someone mentioned Peter Mackay as a decent leader... HA! This is also the turncoat who sold out OUR party name and color to the hardcore Canadian Alliance party AFTER he promised he wouldn't do so... he spit in the face of every Progressive Conservative supporter in this country (myself included).

I'll be tossing my vote to ANYONE but the Conservatives... although I live in Calgary and it will result in nothing...

For spite, I hope all the opposition parties LOSE seats and the Liberals make gains... it'll show how stupid this election really is.

[Edited 2005-11-29 04:47:49]
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:43 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 2):
you're from Toronto so am i really surprised? I don't know how much more it takes for you folks in Southern Ontario to wake up, and demand better.

Insulting sourthern Ontario isn't going to get votes. The inability of the Conservatives to gain ground in S. Ontario points to their own shortcoming, not something wrong with S. Ontario voters, they just don't see the Conservatives as an option. This is a Conservative problem, not a voter problem.

Quoting Basas (Reply 2):
Oh yes...those Conservatives are just SO scary *roll eyes*.

To many Canadians...yes, they are scary.. Many Canadians don't agree with 45% of the Conservative party on the Abortion issue as well as a host of other social issues.

Quoting Basas (Reply 6):
we should just keep the Liberals in forever

12 years...they must be doing something right.

Quoting Basas (Reply 6):
forget about holding our government responsible for their actions and forget about government accountability

Canadian voters did hold our government to account a year and a half ago...in an ELECTION! They punished the Liberal party and returned them to power in a minority status. Stephen Harper had a HUGE opportunity to capitalize on adscam and form the gov't and he was unable to do so. Again, this was a Conservative short-coming.

Quoting Basas (Reply 6):
I think more Canadians than ever are agreeing that it is time for a change.

"70% percent believe the HofC will look the same after the next election." "47 per cent of those asked said it's time to turf the Liberals, the same number said the country would be better off under the Liberals than under the Conservatives." - Again, people are angry at the Liberals but see no alternative.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/11/28/poll051128.html

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 5):
Why aren't people mad at the findings of the Gomery enquiry ?

People were mad and expressed their anger in the last election when they voted the Liberal majority out.

Quoting Basas (Reply 8):
They'll put the scandal into the corner and try and pass it off as 'no big deal'.

If they tried to put it in the corner and pass it off as no big deal then why did PM Martin that call the Gomery Inquiry? Many people are upset about the scandal...and not just conservatives, but Liberals too. However, many Liberals realize that what occurred, was caused by the actions of a limited number of poeple in the Quebec wing of the Liberal party and still support the party as a whole.

Quoting Basas (Reply 8):
Not to mention, i know enough people that are upset with other Liberal policies (same sex marraige, etc.)

I would argue that the same-sex marriage debate is largely over. Admittedly there is still people who are upset about it, but many people have gotten over and forgotten about it. Single issue voting isn't really a huge issue in Canadian politics.

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
That that was a completely different Conservative party over 13 years ago...thats like complaining about a government from the 50's and using it for your excuse not to vote a party in.

You're right, it was a very different Conservative party, a more PROGRESSIVE Conservative party.

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
Well, around here, i know many who use 'liberal' as a dirty word. We are quite Conservative in some respects, and the 'huge shift' just isn't so big. I know alot of people who, without a doubt, would vote Republican.

It must just be the crowd you associate yourself with, the hard right type. Most Canadians do not identify the word "liberal" as a dirty word as it is in the United States.

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
Um...right.

You're right...he is right.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15):
While i do not like the liberals



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 15):
I do not like the conservatives either.

I think you just spoke for a large number of Canadians.

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 20):
Peter MacKay. I think the man would have a serious chance at forming a government.

Agreed.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:56 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 31):
She has no business being in a political spot. I don't believe she cares about the party, the issues, or the people as a whole;

She was a Conservative before she was a Liberal. If she has no business in a political spot, she doesn't care about the party, issues or the people then why did the Conservatives run her as a candidate in the first place.

Quoting Basas (Reply 31):
what she does care about is advancing herself to superior spots in any party dumb enough to accept her.

Blaming someone for being ambitious and wanting to advance themselves in their career is a rather odd thing to criticize someone for. I suppose the Conservatives must be a "numb" party as well as they were the first party to endorse her.

Quoting Basas (Reply 31):
The Liberals were the ones willing to accept her as a cabinet member, and so she 'jumped' across the hall.

I think a small issue of her having a screaming match with Stephen Harper and him being unwilling to listen to her suggestions had something to do with it as well.

Quoting Basas (Reply 31):
I find it just as disgraceful that the Libs have made her a cabinet from the start, as are her actions for betraying her party, and the voters who voted for her to have a viewpoint on line with the Conservative Party.

Not necessarily. A) Her voters may have liked her as a candidate and not necessarily the party she was running under B) Belinda is somewhat of a soft-conservative and wasn't in line with the party on same-sex marriage for example. It is entirely possible that this trend of supporting a soft-conservative will continue and they will vote her back in.

Quoting Basas (Reply 31):
Being this dis-loyal to your constituents should not be allowed in our political system.

Is being disloyal to your party ok? re. Peter Mackay

Quoting A332 (Reply 32):
This election is a total waste of time

Agreed.

Quoting A332 (Reply 32):
Someone mentioned Peter Mackay as a decent leader... HA! This is also the turncoat who sold out OUR party name and color to the hardcore Canadian Alliance party AFTER he promised he wouldn't do so... he spit in the face of every Progressive Conservative supporter in this country (myself included).

Exactly. The way Mackay treated Peter Orchard was awful and I suspect his ability to blatantly lie and be disloyal to his party will come back to haunt him.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 30):
Obviously we technically vote for the MP in our riding, but some of us cast our vote based on our preference for the MP; some for the party; and some for the leader of the party.

I'm sure most people vote for the party, not the individual.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 30):
I heard lots of grumbling about Ms. Stronach "crossing the floor", but I think the voters in her riding voted for HER moreso than they voted for the "Conservative MP". I wonder if she will be re-elected to her seat.

She should be booted out. She betrayed the trust placed on her. She is a shallow mindless twit who has never completed a single project in her life. Her biggest moment was simply being a lucky sperm. No more BS (Belinda Stronach).
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Every Canadian I know, conservative or liberal, wouldn't. I am sure there are a few, but again, Alberta.

Have you ever lived in Alberta? Just so you know, majority of Albertans were opposed to Bush's Iraq war. Of course there's a fair number of redneck morons here that would support Bush and vote Republican, but they are the minority especially in Calgary and Edmonton. Alberta is conservative yes, but we're not Texas.


I don't know what to do in this election. I can't trust the liberals, I don't like the Conservatives stance on social issues (yes I am Albertan believe it or not), NDP... too socialist. Looks like it might be a Green Party vote for me... who knows...

Kris
 
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 36):
I don't know what to do in this election. I can't trust the liberals, I don't like the Conservatives stance on social issues (yes I am Albertan believe it or not), NDP... too socialist. Looks like it might be a Green Party vote for me... who knows...

Spoil your ballot?
 
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:41 pm

As much as I dislike the Tory stand on social issues (I support aborton, and gay marriage), I will vote Conservative since they are the party of free enterprise and low taxes.

Any Cdn who works in the private sector and believes in free enterprise (over socialism) should be a natural Conservative voter.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
A332
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 36):
I don't know what to do in this election. I can't trust the liberals, I don't like the Conservatives stance on social issues (yes I am Albertan believe it or not), NDP... too socialist. Looks like it might be a Green Party vote for me... who knows...

Calgary was also the major Canadian city that had the highest percentage of support go to the Green party (other than Victoria BC)... which is interesting considering how conservative this city can be, although I have always figured voter hesitation is what resulted here.

It's too bad Christine Silverberg was not the Liberal for Calgary South-Centre in 2004 as everyone thought she would be... guaranteed it would have gone Liberal and kept that idiot Lee Richardson out of office.

Diane Ablonczy is the sitting MP in my current riding (Calgary Nose Hill)... no chance in hell of unseating her.  Sad
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting A332 (Reply 39):
Diane Ablonczy is the sitting MP in my current riding (Calgary Nose Hill)... no chance in hell of unseating her.

Diane is a highly regarded middle-of-the-road hardworking MP with a national profile. We should all so blessed with such a good MP.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
A332
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:00 pm

She's also a founding member of the old Reform party and stands for nothing that I believe in... hence my opposition to her holding the seat...  Wink
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Basas
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 36):
Have you ever lived in Alberta? Just so you know, majority of Albertans were opposed to Bush's Iraq war. Of course there's a fair number of redneck morons here that would support Bush and vote Republican, but they are the minority especially in Calgary and Edmonton. Alberta is conservative yes, but we're not Texas.

I find it ironic that you start yelling about how bad other politicians are, and how dumb the people are for voting for that party, when your own politicians are involved in scandals that would certainly have seen them given the boot in the US….yet, Canadians continue to shove it off and vote them in. What does that tell you about the intelligence of Canadian voters?

Yes, I support Bush, and I also support the Conservatives.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 42):
certainly have seen them given the boot in the US

No certainty in that what so ever. Canada is not the U.S.. and there is no reason to compare ourselves to them. If it happens in the U.S. does it mean it has to happen and be right in Canada?

Quoting Basas (Reply 42):
yet, Canadians continue to shove it off and vote them in. What does that tell you about the intelligence of Canadian voters?

Canadians didn't shove it off, they voted them in as a minority to show their anger with the Liberals.
 
A332
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:32 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 42):
I find it ironic that you start yelling about how bad other politicians are, and how dumb the people are for voting for that party, when your own politicians are involved in scandals that would certainly have seen them given the boot in the US….yet, Canadians continue to shove it off and vote them in. What does that tell you about the intelligence of Canadian voters?

Yes, I support Bush, and I also support the Conservatives.

Oh go curl up with your copy of the Western Standard magazine and stop with the petty & childish remarks about the liberal electorate in this country...

[Edited 2005-11-29 06:42:46]
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Skydrol
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 19):
The problem that exists here in the GTA and Southern Ontario is that the Liberal government for years has pandered to the immigrant population. While there is nothing wrong with this IF it has furthered the cause, the problem exists wherein there are just sooo many immigrant families living in this area, that their votes tend to out-number the 'long-time' members of society here.

From what I've understood from reading up on past elections, is that the immigrant population tend to vote liberal in droves, which could be why the Liberals keep getting elected by means of Ontario.

... and immigration quotas are planned to be increased by an additional 300,000 / year. This is the ultimate Liberal vote-padding system. They will become invincible due to Ontario's voting power, regardless of how the rest of the country votes. New immigrants don't like to bite the hand that feeds, and can you blame them?


My comments about the non-confidence vote and latest (of many) liberal scandals:

1. Chretien should be in jail.

2. Martin should be in jail.

3. I will continue to vote Conservative because I would like to have:

- lower taxes
- accountable goverment
- private/public health care options
- reduced 'social' programs
- strong business development ethics
- tough stance on crime / re-instate death penalty



But since Harper cannot take a strong stand and have a clear agenda, instead of waffling, he just my not be the top man... are you listening Mr. Harris?


Long live King Ralph!!


LD4
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:54 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 45):
... and immigration quotas are planned to be increased by an additional 300,000 / year. This is the ultimate Liberal vote-padding system.

Exactly. Many ethnic voters are blindly loyal to the Liberals as payback or thanks for "letting them in".

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 45):
My comments about the non-confidence vote and latest (of many) liberal scandals:

1. Chretien should be in jail.

2. Martin should be in jail.

3. I will continue to vote Conservative because I would like to have:

- lower taxes
- accountable goverment
- private/public health care options
- reduced 'social' programs
- strong business development ethics
- tough stance on crime / re-instate death penalty

I agree totally.
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 32):
This election is a total waste of time... none of the opposition parties have any sort of attractive platform, so we're going to end up re-electing the same Liberal minority government once again... which is better than the thought of having Alberta's conservative whackos in charge...

Ahhh.. but it is NOT a waste of time my friend.

Even though we are going to be ending up most likely with the same result, what this election will show the liberal party is that we will NOT allow them to continue governing at a majority government level, until one of two things happens.

1) THEY smarten up, and start living up to their promises
2) A VIABLE option steps forward in the Conservative party.

Mark my words. If Harper doesn't win a minority government in this election, he'll be gone. Again, going back to what I said in my first response in this thread.. the best thing that can come out of this is that we return the minority liberals, send them a note that we still don't trust them, AND at the same time,we send the same message to the Conservatives, to get a better leader. Period.

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 33):
12 years...they must be doing something right.

Actually, they aren't doing very much right, IMHO. They're only being returned to governement because we do NOT have a viable alternative. Simple.

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 33):
Canadian voters did hold our government to account a year and a half ago...in an ELECTION! They punished the Liberal party and returned them to power in a minority status. Stephen Harper had a HUGE opportunity to capitalize on adscam and form the gov't and he was unable to do so. Again, this was a Conservative short-coming.

Exactly. And they will do the same thing this time around. Punish the Liberals for all the bullcrap politics, bungled deals, pandering to Quebec, and ALSO Punish the Conservatives for NOT having a viable leader who can lead and talk about their platform!

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 45):
... and immigration quotas are planned to be increased by an additional 300,000 / year. This is the ultimate Liberal vote-padding system. They will become invincible due to Ontario's voting power, regardless of how the rest of the country votes. New immigrants don't like to bite the hand that feeds, and can you blame them?

Well that's exactly what my message was trying to say. The liberals have gone above and beyond what most Canadians would call "helping-up" immigrants. I am a big supporter of immigration, and believing that we need to help certain people, but the liberals take that to the n'th degree.

1011yyz (mike)
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KLMA330
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:27 am

Not this again! It seems like only yesterday I went to vote...

Last time I voted for Layton just to punish the liberals with a minority gov't. Unfortunately, got just what I had hoped for, and in turn, this mess again. This time, it's back to the liberals. I mean, who else? Nazi Harper? May as well sign our country over to the Americans then.. why bother with elections?

As a young gay man, living in Toronto, of course I'm going to vote liberal. I am a liberal, and I thank them for finally making us equal citizens, and Canada being viewed as an example to other countries for tolerance and acceptance. Unfortunately, not everyone sees it this way, least of all our "friends" in Alberta and the flat middle provinces... oh well...  Smile
 
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RE: Canadian Government Falls In Non-confidence Vote

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 47):
Ahhh.. but it is NOT a waste of time my friend.

Actually, it's a huge waste of time... again, NONE of the opposition parties offer an attractive platform... and we're going to end up with the same result. It's also a huge waste of taxpayer dollars to fund this election, in case you forgot.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 47):
1) THEY smarten up, and start living up to their promises
2) A VIABLE option steps forward in the Conservative party.

#1) Perhaps if the Conservatives would have backed off the constant threat of toppling the government, something could have been accomplished. The government did not work because the opposition would not let it work.. plain and simple. Harper cares about nothing else but seeing his Conservative butt in 24 Sussex Drive... out of touch with what Canadians expect.

#2) That will never happen as long as the current Conservative party musters much of it's support and ideology from the neo-cons in Alberta. Quite frankly, the majority of Canadians are not interested in Republican-lite.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 47):
If Harper doesn't win a minority government in this election, he'll be gone.



Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 47):
AND at the same time,we send the same message to the Conservatives, to get a better leader. Period.

Why didn't the Conservatives toss Harper after the last failure...? Stockwell Day certainly was thrown out like yesterday's trash (with good reason) after the 2000 campaign. Harper did not and does not appeal to Canadians en masse... well, unless you're from Alberta or rural parts of the West.
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