atco2b
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25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:58 pm

Today is the 25th Anniversary of the death of John Lennon  Sad

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/lennon/
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
atco2b
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25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:26 pm

Just seen that the Thomson B757-200 G-BYAP is named after Mr. Lennon...
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
msllsmith
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25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:24 pm

Thank you for taking note of this anniversary.

I had considered starting a post about it. A "What were you doing when you heard John Lennon was killed?" sort of post..... and then I realized, the vast majority of folks on this site weren't born yet.

His legacy of poetry, music and art lives on. So much so, it's hard to know where to begin.

I was in my studio downtown and on the way to the subway when a friend stopped me to tell me. I remember being stunned. Try to imagine  Smile sitting on the #6 Uptown local subway and 3/4 of the people in tears. I just kept thinking, "You're not supposed to die for your art..." It was just so unfair.

Yoko did a beautiful world wide tribute to him in the form of a simultaneous "10 minutes" of silence. One of the great conceptual art pieces ever done in my opinion. The collective sadness of the scene here in Central Park that day is difficult to describe. Thousands of people standing in total silence with only the whir of helicopters overhead and the sound of cameras .....

I believe it's appropriate to take a moment and give a nod to a lost artistic treasure.
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
Matt D
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25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:48 pm

Any kind of murder or assination like that is certainly a tragedy. I know that Mr Lennon made a huge impact on society and was one of the most talented singers and musicians who ever lived.

*BUT*

That song..."Imagine"....where Mr Lennon calls for Global Communism...

The SOB was just asking for it by putting out a song like that.

Sorry. But he was.
 
ORFflyer
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25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 2):
What were you doing when you heard John Lennon was killed

Not sure about when he was killed, but when it was first announced I was home watching Mondat Night Football. Howard Cosell made the terrible announcement during the broadcast.
 
alphafloor
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 2):
"What were you doing when you heard John Lennon was killed?"

I was a child by then and I remember when my mother told me that one of The Beatles was kille, she was in a shock (we are huge Beatles fans in my family), it was so sad to hear such a bad news. Then we talked a lot about the fact that The Beatles would never be 4 again. The illusion of seeing them togheter definitely vanished... now I imagine.

Alphafloor
Whatever
 
777236ER
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
The SOB was just asking for it by putting out a song like that.

Sorry. But he was.

So you're advocating murder? Right.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:53 am

I read somewhere that LPL use the slogan "Above us only sky" taken from the lyrics of "Imagine" which is nice and poetic .... also heard a joke ( at least , I hope it was a joke ) that the baggage handlers were going to get in to the spirit of things and adopt "imagine no possessions" as their slogan
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
That song..."Imagine"....where Mr Lennon calls for Global Communism...

I think you are confusing Mr Lennon with Mr Lenin - I dont recall any references to Global Communism in the lyrics of "Imagine"
 
alphafloor
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:56 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
I think you are confusing Mr Lennon with Mr Lenin - I dont recall any references to Global Communism in the lyrics of "Imagine"

 biggrin   bigthumbsup 
Whatever
 
A319114
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
I think you are confusing Mr Lennon with Mr Lenin - I dont recall any references to Global Communism in the lyrics of "Imagine"

LOL, that's a great one Big grin
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
AMSGOT
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 2):
"What were you doing when you heard John Lennon was killed?"

At the age of 3, I was probably playing with my cars... Later, I understood the impact of his murder. I have a huge interest in music. The Beatles and John Lennon certainly made me love and understand the impact of music!
Please remain seated!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:20 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 2):
What were you doing when you heard John Lennon was killed?

As a 15 year old at the time, I recall that evening fairly well. I was at home hanging up some indoor Christmas lights in the living room at the time Lennon's slaying made the news.

IIRC shortly after his death, sales of the Double Fantasy album (which was languishing in sales when it debuted a few months earlier) soared off the charts.



Edited to add:

For about a week, every issue of the Boston Herald (it was still officially called the Boston Herald American back then) had several pages paying tribute to the former-Beatle. Along the top of those pages had several images (either 5 or 6) of Lennon featuring his various appearances (looks) from 1964 to 1980.

[Edited 2005-12-08 17:38:59]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:03 am

The ultimate tribute.

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Logan22L
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 4):
when it was first announced I was home watching Mondat Night Football. Howard Cosell made the terrible announcement during the broadcast

 checkmark  I remember that quite well - Patriots and Dolphins. I was a senior in HS and was also playing in a band that did a several Beatles tunes. Just a senseless thing it was.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
yooyoo
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:08 am

I remeber the day.

I was in Germany visiting my grandparents and prepping for Christmas.

I was only 12 at the time and not a Beatles fan, but somehow knew this was a big thing and listened with great interest to the broadcast on German TV.
I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
 
Cadet57
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:11 am

being 18, older folks always disregard my sadness of Mr. Lennons death. I am a huge Beatles fan and John Lennon fan as well. To me his death is and forever will be a national tradgedy. We should never forget his contribution to music and attempting to bring the world together through that medium.

"Imagine all the people."



Regards,
Justin
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:15 am

John Lennon was a human being with his own flaws but was one of greats of popular music. What is sad is that this man of celeberty but who didn't act like some diva as well as encouraged peace became a victim of his celeberty and died violently.
One of the saddest legacies from John Lennon's death and that of other celeberties since then, is how many celebs are more isolated from their fans, adding more and more bodyguards and securty, not be able to enjoy walking down the street without harrassment or fear of another nut case or even a terrorist killing or hurting them. We have seen the 'papparazi' become more agressive and obsessive due to the celeberties isolation for their safety and privacy due to that and other such acts creating an ever esclating pattern of problems for celeberties and the pappariazi. It is a sad that his death becomes a symbol of the dark side of celebity.
 
Matt D
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:26 am

I am not advcocating murder at all. But let's face it....when you sing a song like "Imagine", you are just asking for trouble.

And let's examine some of the lyrics to the song in question:

Imagine there's no country
No posessions
No heaven or hell below us
No religion too
...theres no countries

and the world will live as one


Now if THAT isn't a perfect-albeit brief-description of Global Communism, I don't know what is. I don't think that Johhny was suggesting that everyone pat each other on the back and be nice to each other.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:29 am

Can someone refresh my memory...what was the killer's motive?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:29 am

I was 2 years old when John Lennon died.

Thankfully, my mother and father, who grew up with the Beatles, and as fans of John Lennon also played the music frequently around me.

My earliest memories are of my mother and father singing "Beautiful Boy" and "Watching the Wheels" to me. Dad used to sing "Woman" to my mom all the time too.

I don't remember the day, but my parents thankfully saved the newspaper from that day. I have it, and I will keep it for as long as I can.

Subsequently, throughout my life, I've become a Beatles fan, and am a large fan of JL's work.

Controversial, outspoken, talented, and a legend.

One of my most favourite Beatles songs is "In My Life", and when they played it on the radio this morning, made me think of MY life, the people in my life, and all the people I work with, and cherish.

Thankfully, one of our radio stations here in Toronto is playing Beatles and Lennon songs *all* day, without playing anything else. It's quite a tribute, and after listening to 5 hours of it so far, I'm not bored of it, and it's a poignant example of the impact this man had on music.

Thanks JL for all the good times!

1011yyz (mike)
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 18):
I don't think that Johhny was suggesting that everyone pat each other on the back and be nice to each other.

with respect I think that is exactly what he was suggesting

I notice that you have been quite selective in what you have quoted - you have left out a lot of the lyrics

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...


Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...


You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

I think that you must have some major 'issues' if you think that he deserved to be brutally murdered for painting a picture of a peaceful world .

[Edited 2005-12-08 19:46:10]
 
PSA53
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 13):
The ultimate tribute.

Liverpool John Lennon Airport.Yes, he deserves it.But so
does McCartney.Lennon-McCartney Liverpool Field?
But McCartney and Lennon had personal conflicts.But us
fans would like to see that.

Lennon was a man of peace.He was one of the true face value
honest celebrity.
 bigthumbsup 
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 22):
Liverpool John Lennon Airport.Yes, he deserves it.But so
does McCartney.Lennon-McCartney Liverpool Field?

how about "Strawberry airfield" ? (forever)

[Edited 2005-12-08 19:55:36]
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:03 am

As a 25 year old, the Beatles mean nothing to me.

Shocking eh? Not really, Im not a huge music fan and thats all they are to me, an old band.

Its sad that someone took it into their head that Lennon had to die tho.
 
GDB
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:09 am

I was woken by my mum, as in 'time to go to school', but this time she told me what had happened.
Not really a Beatles fan then, still, it was shocking, they, he, made such a huge cultural impact, they were almost an alternative Royal Family.

Popular music would not be the same without them, no wonder Elvis was so jealous, telling Nixon they were part of a commie plot against America, but by 1970, Elvis was starting to lose it big time.

'Imagine' one of his poorest songs I think, Matt D, you do know that Lennon, in NY, had a spare temp controlled apartment for all of Yoko's fur coats, an estate, a Rolls Royce and $200 million in the bank?
I doubt he was a communist, he was often contradictory, erratic, in his worldview, this probably made him such a great artist.
Chapman's madness killed Lennon, nothing else.

All the Beatles had erratic post group careers, they were the sum of their parts.

Lennon was not a nice person, (but few have their life, their every thought and word under the microscope).
His caustic, often cruel humour was never far from the surface, such as when original Beatles manager, Brain Epstein, (when he topped himself in 1967, it all started to slowly unravel), proudly told Lennon that an biography was being written about him, what does he think it should be called?
Lennon instantly replied, "how about Queer Jew?"
(When published, it was called 'A Cellar full of noise', a reference to the Cavern Club in Liverpool where he discovered them. Lennon referred to it as 'A Cellar Full Of Boys'.
 
ORFflyer
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 17):
Now if THAT isn't a perfect-albeit brief-description of Global Communism, I don't know what is.

Nor do I think you ever will. Sheesh...  Yeah sure

Quoting Matt D (Reply 18):
I don't think that Johhny was suggesting that everyone pat each other on the back and be nice to each other.

I think that is EXACTLY what he was "Imagining"
 
PHLBOS
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 18):
Now if THAT isn't a perfect-albeit brief-description of Global Communism

Similar to a One World, God-less, Utopian society.

Not to throw stones here, but I wonder how John's son (from his first marriage) Julian Lennon thinks of all this? In one interview a few years back he mentioned that his father seemed to have time for everyone else except him during his childhood.

In a nutshell, he stated that the same individual who was preaching peace & love through his music was an actual jerk on the homefront as a father.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
GDB
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:23 am

He was a first rate artist, not a first rate person, this is far from uncommon.
 
cfalk
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
That song..."Imagine"....where Mr Lennon calls for Global Communism...

The SOB was just asking for it by putting out a song like that.

You are right in that it was practically a communist anthem, but it's just a song. Hardly a reason to blow his brains out.

Now, marrying Yoko Ono ("Aaaiiiiiiiiiiiiaiiaiaiiaiiaiaiaiiaiiiii!!!!!"), that might be a good enough reason  Wink

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
I think you are confusing Mr Lennon with Mr Lenin - I dont recall any references to Global Communism in the lyrics of "Imagine"

OK, let's take a look:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,

No heaven or hell, i.e. no religion. This is a basic requirement of Marxism-Leninism, because religion is a competitor to the moral authority of the state. Religion provides a moral compass. For example, the Commandment, "Respect your father and mother" flies in the face of indoctrination to children to inform on their parents if they do not think "proper thoughts". Get rid of religion, and it becomes easier. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim-Il-Sung, Castro and others have all done it, as well as Hitler and any other dictator who demanded obedience to the state.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,

A reference to the idea that, if there is global communism, according to Marx, the state would "whither away". This is idiotic, and shows how little Marx knew about human nature. Nobody will give up power unless he has to.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,

This is pretty obvious. No property, everything belongs to "the people". Of course the problem arises when some people are more intelligent or better motivated than others. Equality is a myth.

Need I go on?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
You are right in that it was practically a communist anthem, but it's just a song. Hardly a reason to blow his brains out.

Now, marrying Yoko Ono ("Aaaiiiiiiiiiiiiaiiaiaiiaiiaiaiaiiaiiiii!!!!!"), that might be a good enough reason

Using that logic, people would've had a lottery on that one.

Back in '85-'86, I remember that Yoko Ono was scheduled to have a concert at the then-Orphiem (sp.) theater in Boston. A radio announcement was later made stating that it was cancelled due to lack of interest.

(Dripping w/sarcasm) Gee, I wonder why?   

[Edited 2005-12-08 20:52:49]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Atco2b (Reply 1):
Just seen that the Thomson B757-200 G-BYAP is named after Mr. Lennon...

Is there a plane registered as "G-IMGN"? If so, that would have been a better plane to dedicate to him..

As for me, I was 7 1/2 years old at the time, and frankly I don't remember hearing about it on the news.

I like the song that Elton John did as a dedication to Mr. Lennon: "Empty Garden"....
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Aleksandar
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:51 am

I was 7.5 back then, but I knew his songs well. In fact, I grew up listening them and I learned English thanks to aviation and The Beatles.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 18):
when you sing a song like "Imagine", you are just asking for trouble.

Maybe he was asking for trouble with "Give Peace A Chance" too?

Lennon was not killed by someone who was opposing communism, but by someone who was mentally ill.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
Need I go on?

people can advocate peace and freedom from religion without being communists . In deciding that the two things are equal you are making an error of logic here - it is like assuming that if someone doesnt eat pork that they must be jewish or muslim when they could just be vegetarian or not like pork very much
 
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scbriml
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:20 am

I was playing football a couple of days after he was killed. Our goalkeeper didn't show up and we were arguing as to who would play in goal. Eventually someone "volunteered" but was complaining bitterly that we'd all be mad at him if he let in any goals. The team wag promptly quipped "Even John Lennon stopped five shots!" rotfl 

A sad, needless loss of talent. Still, MattD said he deserved it, so it must be OKsarcastic 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
bushpilot
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:47 am

Im a big long time fan, thanks for marking the anniv. I hope his memory lives on for a long long time. time to crank the beatles mix, and not get into the debate about this because I will just get stirred up over it.
 
cfalk
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 33):
people can advocate peace and freedom from religion without being communists .

I never said otherwise. All mentally balanced people in the world want peace. But Lennon's lyrics seem to advocate global communism, which would in his opinion bring on world peace.

Nice song, but woefully naive lyrics.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 36):
e song, but woefully naive lyrics.

maybe , but that still doesn't mean that the lyrics are promoting 'Global Communism' - and it certainly doesn't mean as Matt D said that he "was just asking for it"
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 37):
maybe , but that still doesn't mean that the lyrics are promoting 'Global Communism'

Disagree. That's EXACTLY what they were promoting. You simply cannot interpret them otherwise.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 37):
and it certainly doesn't mean as Matt D said that he "was just asking for it"

On that I agree.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:57 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 38):
You simply cannot interpret them otherwise

maybe you can't , but please don't assume everyone else has your lack of imagination - I certainly can interpret them otherwise - for me I interpret "Imagine" as a nice piece of poetry describing one somewhat naive mans vision of utopia - free from fear , hatred , hunger and want , which certainly doesn't sound like any version of global communism I have ever heard of . I guess I just have a bit more imagination ( and optimism ) than you do .
 
DaddiesSecret
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:16 pm

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:36 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
That song..."Imagine"....where Mr Lennon calls for Global Communism...

The SOB was just asking for it by putting out a song like that.

Sorry. But he was.



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
No heaven or hell, i.e. no religion. This is a basic requirement of Marxism-Leninism, because religion is a competitor to the moral authority of the state. Religion provides a moral compass. For example, the Commandment, "Respect your father and mother" flies in the face of indoctrination to children to inform on their parents if they do not think "proper thoughts". Get rid of religion, and it becomes easier. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim-Il-Sung, Castro and others have all done it, as well as Hitler and any other dictator who demanded obedience to the state

do some people live on a different planet?

critise lennon for what he was - an awful human being. Imagine for what it was - a dirge.

p.s. how did lennon get to be a hippie anyway?
 
msllsmith
Posts: 387
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting DaddiesSecret (Reply 40):
p.s. how did lennon get to be a hippie anyway?

Maybe he just got very lucky.
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:22 am

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 38):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 37):
maybe , but that still doesn't mean that the lyrics are promoting 'Global Communism'

Disagree. That's EXACTLY what they were promoting. You simply cannot interpret them otherwise.

I think that if John Lennon wanted to do a paean to Global Communism he would have thrown in "workers' paradise", "collective farm," "state ownership of the means of production," and "state-controlled media" in there somewhere.

To say that it is only possible to interpret "Imagine" as an apologist anthem for Communism is like saying that definitive lyrics exist for "Louie Louie."

Was John Lennon a saint? Of course not. He was a terrible father, etc. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

I guess the whole debate about the impact of one song written by one guy just goes to show that Rock 'n Roll is still "dangerous."
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 39):
maybe you can't , but please don't assume everyone else has your lack of imagination - I certainly can interpret them otherwise - for me I interpret "Imagine" as a nice piece of poetry describing one somewhat naive mans vision of utopia - free from fear , hatred , hunger and want , which certainly doesn't sound like any version of global communism I have ever heard of . I guess I just have a bit more imagination ( and optimism ) than you do .

Check, Check, and Double-Check
 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 42):
Was John Lennon a saint? Of course not. He was a terrible father, etc. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Well put.
 
AMSGOT
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:37 pm

RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 36):
I never said otherwise. All mentally balanced people in the world want peace. But Lennon's lyrics seem to advocate global communism, which would in his opinion bring on world peace.

So what? I am not a communist, nor a winner of a beauty contest, but I wouldn't say no to world peace. The basic thoughts of Marx in his Communist Manifest are not that bad, it's just the lousy leadership of the presidents of the (former) communist countries which made communism a huge failure. Before I get all the Americans and CIA all over me: I believe in a democratic society.

I think the more interesting question on this subject is: Isn't it crazy to see that one simple song on world peace, made by an artist who has been dead for the past 25 years, makes us having this discussion? I mean, what an impact!
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cfalk
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting AMSGOT (Reply 44):
The basic thoughts of Marx in his Communist Manifest are not that bad, it's just the lousy leadership of the presidents of the (former) communist countries which made communism a huge failure.

Actually, the problem was Marx's wishful thinking and ignorance about human nature. Understandable, given the way he lived. I have a degree in economics, and I've studied Marx very carefully, and read all his works, and can tell you that his ideas were utopic. Nice idea, but simply will not work.

Quoting AMSGOT (Reply 44):
I think the more interesting question on this subject is: Isn't it crazy to see that one simple song on world peace, made by an artist who has been dead for the past 25 years, makes us having this discussion? I mean, what an impact!

Interesting point. Here's another one. If we ignored all his work with the Beatles, how would his legacy have held up? Would he have been considered a performer with a few memorable songs, like "Imagine", but otherwise mediocre? I think that the Lennon-McCartney-Harrison-Starr combination was the key, even if he wrote a lot of the songs, there was something about how the Beatles could perform them better than anyone else, including Lennon solo.

Look at Roger Waters and Pink Floyd. Waters wrote 90% of the material in their last 7-8 years, but his material after Floyd was mediocre. Something was missing.
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alphafloor
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RE: 25th Anniversary Of The Death Of John Lennon

Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 45):
If we ignored all his work with the Beatles, how would his legacy have held up? Would he have been considered a performer with a few memorable songs, like "Imagine", but otherwise mediocre? I think that the Lennon-McCartney-Harrison-Starr combination was the key, even if he wrote a lot of the songs, there was something about how the Beatles could perform them better than anyone else, including Lennon solo.

Sorry but I cannot let you say things like that. I agree with you that the combination Lennon-McCartney-Harrison-Starr was the key, and I understand your great temptation to compare these two guys but you just can't. As you just can't "ignore" the work he did before his solo career, you have to judge ALL the work of an artist, not just a part of it and make statements like "Van Gogh is mediocre because I find "The potatoe eaters" mediocre !", this is just ridiculous. And if you listen carefully to Lennon's work after the Beatles you'll just find incredible songs that IMO goes even further than of what he did with the Beatles. "Jealous Guy" mediocre ? "#9 dream" mediocre ? " "Oh My Love" mediocre... and son on... come on !

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