RNOcommctr
Topic Author
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Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:39 am

I am looking to buy about a 2003 Chevy Impala or 2003 Buick Century (or Regal). Both of these cars are rated as reliable by Consumer Reports. They appeal to me because of the medium size and comfort. I also like the fact that only GM cars in this size and price range have dual-zone climate control, a feature I need to preserve my marriage.

Anyone own one of these vehicles? What are your impressions?

I hate the blandness of the Century interior; the Impala's interior is a little more visually appealing. Neither car's exterior sets the world of styling on fire, in my opinion.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:53 am

Well, I think they're both crap because GM makes them (go get a Toyota or something). But if you're dead-set on one of those, the Regal is pretty nice. My dad rented one once (believe it was a 2003 even), and it was much roomier than the Impala's I've been in.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:06 am

I have rented both cars. And in my opinion the Chevy Impala is much better than the Century. They are both probably equal in ride and comfort, but I found the Impala to have more nimble handling. I once had to do a sudden lane change at 75mph in the Century and it gave me flashbacks to my first car, a '77 Ford Granada. The Impala also has a larger and torquier engine than the Century (3.4-liter 180-hp vs. 3.1-liter 175-hp).

With that said, over both of them by far, I would recommend a 2003 (2004 has 5-spd auto trans) Toyota Camry 4-cyl, which has superior gas mileage and reliability, has similar comfort and acceleration, however, you might have to shop around for the dual climate control.
.......
 
dl021
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:46 am

RNO...buddy, you need to drive both cars and decide if the little extras you'll get in the Buick makes it worth the extra money you'll pay.

The Impala is a vary nice car, especially for the money, and you'll get your dollars worth. I don't know if it has dual climate control, but if it does I'd go for that one.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:55 am

I've driven both. The Impala seems to be more sturdy.

It must have inherited some toughness from its police car brother.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:07 am

Century

-Based off the Chevy Malibu, Oldsmobile Alero, and Pontiac Grand Am platform
-Slightly smaller
-Interior is more luxorious and has a few goodies
-Suspension is very soft, the car sways a lot
-Has the less powerful 3.1L V6

Impala

-Has it's own platform (I think)
-Slightly larger
-More stiffer and stury suspension system
-More powerful 3.4L V6




Either way, you can't go wrong. As said before, they are very good cars for the money -- reliable, great gas mileage, and excellent value (not for sellers). Personally I opted for the Pontiac Grand Am because it's sporty design and it has the more powerful 3.4L V6.



Also, ignore the idiot GM-bashers. For money's sake -- I'd much rather have a newer V6 GM sedan than I would a 4 banger foreign car with double the miles.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
flight152
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:33 am

No offense or anything, but they are both garbage. Especially the geriatric Buick, talk about outdated. Take a look at the Honda accord for an excellent comparable car.

[Edited 2005-12-11 01:37:01]
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 6):
No offense or anything, but they are both garbage.

Not surprising at all.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 6):
Take a look at the Honda accord for an excellent comparable car.

Accords are a higher class of car, they cost a lot more. Seems like the author might not have the budget. Moot suggestion.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
Either way, you can't go wrong. As said before, they are very good cars for the money -- reliable, great gas mileage, and excellent value (not for sellers). Personally I opted for the Pontiac Grand Am because it's sporty design and it has the more powerful 3.4L V6.

Once again....NWA742 speaks truth.
Even better is if you can get a 3.8L V6. It's bullet proof, plenty of power and easy to maintain.
Advise....The 3.1L and 3.4L have an inherent coolant / oil leak problem at the lower intake manifold gasket. Most will leak @ 60 - 100K miles. The replacement gasket set cures the problem, but it's a $400.00 repair.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 8):
Even better is if you can get a 3.8L V6. It's bullet proof, plenty of power and easy to maintain.

  

Sometimes you can get lucky and find a base Impala that has a 3.8 in it instead of the 3.4. Although 99% of the time, the 3.8s were left for the Impala LS and SS models. The newer Impalas use the newer 3.5s and 3.9s.

Edit - I believe the 3.5 is based off the 3100/3400 block and the 3.9 is based off the 3.8 block -- not sure though.

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 8):
The 3.1L and 3.4L have an inherent coolant / oil leak problem at the lower intake manifold gasket. Most will leak @ 60 - 100K miles. The replacement gasket set cures the problem, but it's a $400.00 repair.

This is true, I'd go ahead and save the extra money for that. However, I've heard rumors that GM solved this problem in 2003-present models. Haven't confirmed it though.




-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-11 01:54:11]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
flight152
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:11 am

Accords are a higher class of car, they cost a lot more

Someone hasn't done their research. Lets take a look at the numbers.

2003 Buick Century Limited (new car price)
$23,285
V6 with 175 hp
4 speed auto

2003 Honda Accord V6 (with 05 pricing, couldn't find 03 {higher if anything})
$24,500
V6 witth 240 hp
5 speed auto (or manual)

An additional $1200 hardly puts it in another class. It should be well made up for by its much higher hp and better looks.
 
TPAnx
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:13 am

Bought a 2003 Buick LaSabre Limited with 7K miles on it this spring--for about 12K$ off the sticker. Love it..comfortable, peppy, responsive (3.7L) dual climate control, a great sound system, roomy trunk. All the bells and whistles..except for a sunroof. Overall quality is great..and its a lot more comfortable than some BMW and Mercedes I've been in. 31MPG at 75 mph down I-75 from Gainesville to Tampa...
 thumbsup 
TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
AirCop
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:20 am

2003 Impala vs. Century
My choice is the Impala. Penalty of room inside, dependable engine, a girl that works with me has 100,000 on hers, high mileage on the highway, meanwhile the
Buick Century in my part of the world means winter visitor from someplace in the north otherwise its for older people.
 
prosa
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:37 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10):
An additional $1200 hardly puts it [the Accord] in another class. It should be well made up for by its much higher hp and better looks.

Other things being equal, a 2003 Accord is likely to be $2,500 to $3,000 more than a 2003 Impala. Hondas tend to hold their values better than GM cars.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
flight152
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:41 am

Other things being equal, a 2003 Accord is likely to be $2,500 to $3,000 more than a 2003 Impala. Hondas tend to hold their values better than GM cars.

Yes, and when it comes time to sell it, it will also return more due to the higher residual value.
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
Other things being equal, a 2003 Accord is likely to be $2,500 to $3,000 more than a 2003 Impala. Hondas tend to hold their values better than GM cars.

I kind of like having a good 'ol dependable pushrod engine with timing chain instead of a rubber band "timing belt".

Also consider insurance cost. The Accord has a high loss rate due to theft and a higher cost of repair.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10):
Someone hasn't done their research. Lets take a look at the numbers.

2003 Buick Century Limited (new car price)
$23,285
V6 with 175 hp
4 speed auto

2003 Honda Accord V6 (with 05 pricing, couldn't find 03 {higher if anything})
$24,500
V6 witth 240 hp
5 speed auto (or manual)

You couldn't find pricing for 2003 Accords?

  

And I haven't done my research?

First of all, before we look at the real numbers, I didn't have to research - I already know that foreign sedans hold their value much better than GM and Ford sedans - it's common automotive knowledge.



Now, for the numbers, he's looking at used car prices, not new.. So if we look at 2003:


Used 2003 V6 Buick Centurys

-Average 8.5-12K depending on the mileage and condition. Look at Ebay, look at KBB, look at Autotrader, it's all there. KBB value with 30000 miles, V6, and standard equipment is 11.6K

---

Used 2003 V6 Honda Accord Sedans

-Average 17-23K depending on the mileage and condition. KBB value with 30000 miles, V6, and standard eqipment miles is right around 19.0K. Again, look at Ebay, look at KBB, look at Autotrader.

Edit: The above numbers are retail values.



Why the hell am I argueing with you about this? Used Accords with comparative equipment, mileage, and condition, will cost at least $5000 more than an Impala or Century. You want to deny it, go ahead. You want to skip the issue by posting new car prices that have nothing to do with this discussion, go ahead. I know that I am right.




-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-11 03:08:56]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ACDC8
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:08 am

Having put many miles on both these cars in the last year, I'd have to say the Impala may be a better buy (however, I'm not a fan of them and I wouldn't spend a dime on a GM, but that's just my opinion and I'll keep that to myself  Wink ).

The Impala is a bit "sportier  footinmouth  " then the Century and does have a bit more pep to it. Both interiors are quite bland but room is comparable. I don't know exactly how much your budget is, but you may want to take a peek at the Buick Allure and Chevy Malibu. The Allure (or Lacrosse in the US) has replaced the Century and Regal and is a vast improvement over both of them. The Malibu is a bit smaller but is a very impressive car, great powerplant, fantastic handling, great interior and better mileage.

My father has owned a Buick Regal, LeSabre and a new Century. He's regretting the purchase of the Buick as it has some serious quality issues and the build is very poor. That combined with a lack of power and higher gas mileage then his other 2 Buicks.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
skysurfer
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:15 am

Why not go for a used Audi A4 (doubt there's any A6's knocking around).....great all rounder, reliable engine and body, nice shape and its not too high in the price range.

Cheers
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:32 am

Just to further prove it, Flight152, I just got back from Ebay.

Look at 2003 Centuries - the first one you see has 22K miles, going for a Buy It Now at $8999

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Look at 2003 Accords - first V6 one that you see is a V6 coupe, 46K miles, going for a Buy it Now at $18,950.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/One-O...QcategoryZ6254QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



I could find a 100 more examples of these pricing differences on Autotrader, but I don't need to. Fact is fact.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
jmc1975
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 18):
Why not go for a used Audi A4 (doubt there's any A6's knocking around).....great all rounder, reliable engine and body, nice shape and its not too high in the price range.

Audis here in the US are considered near luxury. The A4 is quite a bit smaller than the Impala/Century/Camry but more expensive. Although the reliability of an A4 would be similar to the GM models, the cost of parts would be substantially more, and more difficult to find. Buying an Audi in the US is great if you want to present an image, but if you're looking for value, it's not there.
.......
 
ACDC8
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 19):
Look at 2003 Centuries - the first one you see has 22K miles, going for a Buy It Now at $8999



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 19):
Look at 2003 Accords - first V6 one that you see is a V6 coupe, 46K miles, going for a Buy it Now at $18,950.

All, I can say is that you get what you pay for ....  duck   Wink
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 21):
All, I can say is that you get what you pay for ....

Well, the Hondas are a higher form of vehicle, there's no argueing about that. They hold their value better, they have higher quality materials, etc.

But remember, value is value, and in this case (buying a used car), there's no doubt in my mind that midsize GM and Ford sedans will give you the best bang for you buck. Why would I spend 20K on a 50000 mile Accord when I can spend half that on a much newer Ford, Chevy, Buick, etc, with comparative features?

All about what you want, I guess.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ACDC8
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 22):
All about what you want, I guess.

Exactly. One needs to set their budget and ask themselves what they are looking for. Personally, I would rather spend the the $19K on the 2003 Accord as opposed to the 2003 Century that only has half the miles and at half the cost. But that's just me.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Audis here in the US are considered near luxury

True.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
A4 is quite a bit smaller than the Impala/Century/Camry but more expensive

True.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Although the reliability of an A4 would be similar to the GM models

Not true.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
the cost of parts would be substantially more, and more difficult to find.

True.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Buying an Audi in the US is great if you want to present an image, but if you're looking for value, it's not there.

That depends on what you define value as. Yes, an new A4 will cost you at least $10,000 to $15,000 more then a comparable GM or Ford. But, your resale value will be much higher in the end, and you'll actually loose less money as the Audi's do not depreciate as much as a GM or Ford. Take both for a test drive, pay very close attention to the choice, quality and build of the materials used in both cars (inside and out). There is a world of difference. GM, sadly, builds cheap cars. Their reliability is horrendous (I know this because I deal with many car manufacturers every day I go to work, and our fleet of GM's spend more days in the shop then they do on the road). The material quality is very low as is the general build quality which are two of the main reasons why GM's are quite affordable.

Having said that, if getting the most features for as little money as possible, not worrying about resale value or reliability and if that is your definition of value, then GM is your ticket. However, value for me is how much quality and how much reliability I get out of the vehicle, and that usually cost a little more.

[Edited 2005-12-11 04:09:31]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
NWA742
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:12 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 23):
GM, sadly, builds cheap cars. Their reliability is horrendous

First of all, that's a very simple opinion for such a wide range of vehicles. You actually think Yukons and Corvettes are cheap, unreliable, crappy-built vehicles?

This subject of reliability is debatable at best -- for instance, I think most GMs are very reliable, especially the trucks and SUVs. So far, my GM car has been completely reliable, not a single problem yet.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ACDC8
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 24):
First of all, that's a very simple opinion for such a wide range of vehicles.

I drive and work with several types of GM vehicles ranging from the Aveo to the Cadillac STS, the Uplander to the Yukons.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 24):
You actually think Yukons and Corvettes are cheap, unreliable, crappy-built vehicles?

I never said anything about them being crap. I said that GM's choice of materials if very low in quality. Look at the new Cadillac's as an example, they use the absolute cheapest plastics for the interior, unacceptable for a car with that kind of price tag. The build quality in general is also very poor (including the Yukon and Corvette). And yes, they are unreliable, that is an unfortunate fact. I'm not saying anything against GM's workers, they do a fine job. However, their design teams and management had better get their act together if they want to stay competitive.

Compare a Porshe 911 with a Corvette, even though both are great cars, there is a world apart between performance, handling and build quality.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 24):
This subject of reliability is debatable at best -- for instance, I think most GMs are very reliable, especially the trucks and SUVs. So far, my GM car has been completely reliable, not a single problem yet.

I agree with you that it is debatable, because every manufacturer have their problems. However, GM (and Ford for that matter) do have more problems as opposed to their foreign counterparts. I've mentioned in other threads, that how many newer GM's are based on foreign platforms? Just to name a few, Aveo, Optra and Malibu and their reliability is higher then the Cobalt or Impala. As far as trucks and SUV's go, again debatable. The pickups seem to be doing better then Ford (did you know that 1 out of 2 F350's have to get their transmission's replaced before 20K KM), but GM's SUV's are average at best.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
I drive and work with several types of GM vehicles ranging from the Aveo to the Cadillac STS, the Uplander to the Yukons.

And? They are completely different classes, versions, types of vehicles, and your opinion remains the same on every single one? Whatever man.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
I never said anything about them being crap. I said that GM's choice of materials if very low in quality

Other people relate that to the saying, "built crappy" - my mistake.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Compare a Porshe 911 with a Corvette, even though both are great cars, there is a world apart between performance, handling and build quality.

And price too, the Porsche costs about 2.5-3 Corvettes - it better have better build quality. And you're right about the performance - the newer Corvettes, specifically the Z06s, blow the hell out of the newest Porsche 911s and 911 Turbos.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
owever, GM (and Ford for that matter) do have more problems as opposed to their foreign counterparts.

Again, that's debatable at best. For some, including me, my immediate family and relatives, and many friends, GMs are just as reliable in every aspect as foreign counterparts, especially with regards to major mechanical things such as engines and transmissions.

Everyone has their stories, experience, and opinions about cars, there's no set principles that one builds less reliable than the others. That's what you don't seem to be getting.




-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-11 04:52:54]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
prosa
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:02 pm

Years ago there used to be a belief that cars built on Mondays or Fridays were especially prone to be lemons. The idea was that on Mondays, many auto plant workers were still suffering the effects of the weekend's overindulgences, while on Fridays their minds were on the upcoming weekends rather than on the cars they were building.
I have no idea if there was any truth to this belief, or whether there was any way for a would-be purchaser to discover a car's day of manufacture.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
sccutler
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:26 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 6):
No offense or anything, but they are both garbage. Especially the geriatric Buick, talk about outdated. Take a look at the Honda accord for an excellent comparable car.

Ignorance is a sad thing to see displayed.

Notwithstanding urban myth, actual (and well-publicized) data show that GM has some of the highest-quality cars being built today. Certainly could not have said that in the 80's, but hey, times change.

I recall the early 70s, when Japanese cars first began to sell; they were not worth a crap, but they were cheap. The "good" came later.

If someone says, "I'd never own a (fill in blank here) car...," cannot allow for the possibility, they've shown they cannot consider change... just silly.

By the way, I have a Cadillac Deville with 58,000 miles, runs like a new car and is comfy as can be. My previous Deville ('90 model, sold to my brother in law) had 217,000 miles when he sold it, still looked good, still ran well. Smelled a little, but that's the ol' brother in law....
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:31 pm

1. One of my GM's appreciates in value from year to year.  Silly
2. That GM's can outrun your BMW.  Silly
3. That GM was made in the 1990s  Silly

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
Compare a Porshe 911 with a Corvette, even though both are great cars, there is a world apart between performance, handling and build quality.

Son you cant even spell Porsche. Im glad your comparing a 45k car to one thats 70k. Why dont we just compare an Aveo to an Accord?

BTW..It should be noted that American cars are not as unreliable as you guys think. Buick is far more reliable than a Mercedes or a BMW or VW. Thanks for playing. http://car-reviews.automobile.com/ne...s-fare-better-for-reliability/295/

NWA742: Its ok...apparently hes only been here less than a year so he doesnt know what can hes opening  Silly Take a deep breath and calm down mate.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
NWA742: Its ok...apparently hes only been here less than a year so he doesnt know what can hes opening Take a deep breath and calm down mate.

Haha, I was wondering where you were, partner.

I'm probably out for the night -- I'll leave it to you to teach the GM haters until I'm back. You probably do a better job at it than I do anyway.

Later,



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ACDC8
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
And? They are completely different classes, versions, types of vehicles, and your opinion remains the same on every single one? Whatever man

You said ....

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 24):
First of all, that's a very simple opinion for such a wide range of vehicles.

My response was that I deal with a very wide range of GM vehicles (among other badges) on a daily basis, so I was just answering your post in reply 24. I am not arguing with you, I am just stating a few facts which has formed my opinion on GM vehicles. Just as one example, our 2005 Grand Am's have an average of 20K Kms on them, our 2005 Toyota Corolla's have an average of about 45K Kms on them. The reason for this is the fact that the Grand Am's spend a ridiculous amount of time getting work done on them. This is also true to many other GM vehicles.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
And price too, the Porsche costs about 2.5-3 Corvettes - it better have better build quality.

It does, you can't argue that fact. Why are Porshe's so highly regarded in the US? Why do they sell so well in the US? How's the Corvette doing in Europe? Not too good is it? This is because most people who spend that kind of money, expect to get something for it.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
And you're right about the performance - the newer Corvettes, specifically the Z06s, blow the hell out of the newest Porsche 911s and 911 Turbos.

0-60 times are only about 1 - 1.5 seconds difference (advantage for the Z06). But on a race track (with chicanes, curves and such) the Vette will fall behind the 911.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
Again, that's debatable at best. For some, including me, my immediate family and relatives, and many friends, GMs are just as reliable in every aspect as foreign counterparts, especially with regards to major mechanical things such as engines and transmissions.

I am very sure that there are people who are very happy with their GM's. I know some people who are unhappy with their Benz's and Subaru's. However, I've never had a customer who drove a Toyota or Honda buy a GM or Ford, but I've had plenty of GM or Ford owners buy a Toyota or Honda. In respect to their engines and transmissions, GM's trannys are quite reliable, but their engines (especially the V6's) do have a fair share of problems.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
Everyone has their stories, experience, and opinions about cars, there's no set principles that one builds less reliable than the others.

Yes, everyone has their stories and preferences, however, at the end of the day when you add them up, the results might shock you. There are set principles that one builds less reliable cars then others. The cheaper material one uses, the more corners one cuts in design, the less reliable in the end product. It's a very simple formula to follow really.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 26):
That's what you don't seem to be getting.

I understand what you are getting at. I understand you have your preference, you are happy with your vehicle as are your friends. However, when I need cars to make me money, things look very different. I can't have my cars in the shop every second weekend, it costs me money. Sadly, that's what GM is costing us. That is a fact! Fact is that I can have problems with any vehicles, but in my experience, GM's have had more problems then any other. Fact.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
Son you cant even spell Porsche.

Did you just call me son?  Confused Whatever kiddo!  Wink I was halfway in the shower, forgive me of my spelling sin ....  pray 

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
Im glad your comparing a 45k car to one thats 70k. Why dont we just compare an Aveo to an Accord?

Is the Corvette not GM's or even America's top sports car? Is it not the icon of what a sports cars should be? Pretty fair comparison to me. Price is one thing, but that just proves my point that GM cannot design and build high quality products if you don't even want to compare GM's top of the line with another manufactures lower end models. What would you suggest we compare with the Z06?

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
BTW..It should be noted that American cars are not as unreliable as you guys think. Buick is far more reliable than a Mercedes or a BMW or VW.

Benz, BMW and VW do have lot's of problems. Most of them being electrical and computer problems. Again, please compare the features found in most of these vehicles and are not even offered on US badges.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
NWA742: Its ok...apparently hes only been here less than a year so he doesnt know what can hes opening Take a deep breath and calm down mate.

I know exactly what can I've opened, I'm just waiting for Superfly to get in on this one ...  Big grin
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Quoting RNOcommctr (Thread starter):
I am looking to buy about a 2003 Chevy Impala or 2003 Buick Century (or Regal).

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry to hear that.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:46 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
Why are Porshe's so highly regarded in the US? Why do they sell so well in the US?

Porsche is regarded as a prestigious luxury/performance brand in the United States. Yes, the cars are of the highest quality, but even if quality were to slip they'd remain in high demand for quite some time if for no other reason than the image and prestige factor (which is what's been happening with Mercedes).
Never underestimate the importance of trendiness and image when it comes to cars. It may well be that the typical Buick LaCrosse is every bit the equal of the typical Honda Accord in objective terms. The Buick, however, suffers from an unfavorable image, that of a doofy old person's car - something you'll see parked outside the senior center on Bingo Day. The Accord, in complete contrast, is the type of vehicle an ambitious and with-it young person drives - something you'll see parked outside the racquetball club.
What's more, these stereotypes are self-perpetuating. A younger person might notice the advertisements for the LaCrosse but won't be interested in an old person's car, hence the people who do end up buying them are old, which reinforces the image.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
RNOcommctr
Topic Author
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:54 pm

Wow, I thought this was one of the blandest thread-starters of all time... was I ever wrong! I guess you can never under-estimate emotions and opinions relating to cars. I tend to agree with most of NWA742's opinions. Yes, my budget is limited and these two cars (Century and Impala) seem to offer quite a bit of value for the money. I do notice that the crash test ratings for the Chevy are higher than for the Buick. I also notice that the Chevy is a bigger car-- about four inches longer than the Buick.

I am still undecided, but I do appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. A big factor is how much $$$ I have left when the holiday season is over! Speaking of which, best holiday wishes to all...
Active loading only, ma'am, keep it moving!
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
It does, you can't argue that fact.

I wasn't.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
Why are Porshe's so highly regarded in the US? Why do they sell so well in the US? How's the Corvette doing in Europe? Not too good is it?

Uh, Porsches don't sell that well in the US. It's pretty rare to see them in most places actually.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
This is because most people who spend that kind of money, expect to get something for it.

So people who spend $60K on a Corvette don't get anything?

  

Again, the 911 is 2-3 times more expensive than the Vette, but is it 2-3 times the car? Heh.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
0-60 times are only about 1 - 1.5 seconds

Uh huh, and that's a lot -- especially for comparsions involving high performance cars.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
But on a race track (with chicanes, curves and such) the Vette will fall behind the 911.

Wrong again. The new C6 Z06 has been setting some incredible times at tracks such as Nurburgring.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102690

As you can see, it was only behind the Carrera GT, a $440000 car, and the $1000000 McLaren. It beat the snot out of the 911:

http://www.baileymotorsports.com/nurburgring.html

Pretty sad that a poorly-built cheap GM car beat the hell out of many of the the top European supercars, eh? And what does it cost, mmm $70000?

 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
but their engines (especially the V6's) do have a fair share of problems.

Your opinion.

The GM 3800 V6 was rated among the top, if not the top of 100 engines by JD Power & Associates after a long term study. Also among Ward's 10 Best Engines of the century.

IMO, the 4.3L V6 based off of the 350 V8 is simply bulletproof. The 3100/3400 are excellent V6s other than the gasket problem.


Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
There are set principles that one builds less reliable cars then others.

No, there are not. You are trying to put forward your opinions as facts, just because you haven't had top experience with GM cars. In reality - your opinion means squat in the grand scheme of things, and so does mine. There are NOT set principles concerning which car maker makes the most and least reliable cars. Everybody has different opinions of what constitues reliabilty, everybody has different opinions on cars, their value, etc, etc etc. There are studies of course, but many of them which point in every direction.

The overall point is, is that nothing is set in stone regarding this subject.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
I can't have my cars in the shop every second weekend, it costs me money. Sadly, that's what GM is costing us. That is a fact! Fact is that I can have problems with any vehicles, but in my experience, GM's have had more problems then any other. Fact.

While the problems you may experience may be facts, that doesn't make your opinions (that GMs are cheap and not reliable) fact. It doesn't, no matter how you want to spin it. You are one case and nothing else, and so am I.

Also, I'm sure that you're aware that there are probably countless other businesses that love their GM vehicles, that love them for their value and reliability - that's why GM keeps selling countless vehicles to businesses.




-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-11 07:27:12]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
Did you just call me son? Whatever kiddo! I was halfway in the shower, forgive me of my spelling sin ....

I wouldnt say that with the errr...population that we have here.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
Is the Corvette not GM's or even America's top sports car? Is it not the icon of what a sports cars should be? Pretty fair comparison to me. Price is one thing, but that just proves my point that GM cannot design and build high quality products if you don't even want to compare GM's top of the line with another manufactures lower end models. What would you suggest we compare with the Z06?

Thats a ridiculous statement...the Porsche and the Corvette are NOT made for the same driving....you think the Impreza and Camaro are (were) made for the same thing? Please. I dont care what you want to compare to the Corvette..but if you will, compare same class like Lancer Evolution + Impreza or heck Mondeo + Vectra.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
Benz, BMW and VW do have lot's of problems. Most of them being electrical and computer problems. Again, please compare the features found in most of these vehicles and are not even offered on US badges.

Sorry, but what do VWs have that US cars do not? And what consolation is it if they are electrical problems...that answer supposed to serve a purpose? There arent that many features that arent available on a US car and on a BMW. Compare an 2006 CTS and BMW 330. Whatever you put here the BMW most likely drives better for a person like you or me but not everyone is looking for that. The differences are not as significant where they are worlds apart.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
I know exactly what can I've opened, I'm just waiting for Superfly to get in on this one ...

Larry will acknowledge my authority on this...if you need that kind of feedback  Silly

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
Uh, Porsches don't sell that well in the US. It's pretty rare to see them in most places actually.

*coughs* Porsche is in that class of a category that it doesnt sell well for one reason. Its expensive for the average person. "Well" is a relative term.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
0-60 times are only about 1 - 1.5 seconds difference (advantage for the Z06). But on a race track (with chicanes, curves and such) the Vette will fall behind the 911.

Yes, and you can tune a Citroen Xsara or a 307 to take apart a 911 on a road with serpentines..my point. Car made for different reason. It is well known that American cars are not made for that kind of driving...let me share a little secret with you why. We dont live between Perpignian and Nice, and our weekend trips do not involve driving from Prague to Krakow. Those roads are far and between, and most in the Rocky mountains and upper midwest (kettle moraine, UP etc.) for us in the USA, hardly filled with car enthusiasts like us.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
Yes, everyone has their stories and preferences, however, at the end of the day when you add them up, the results might shock you. There are set principles that one builds less reliable cars then others. The cheaper material one uses, the more corners one cuts in design, the less reliable in the end product. It's a very simple formula to follow really.

On paper a Rolls Royce, Mercedes, VW, Land Rover are way less reliable than a Buick...does that shock you...because Im hardly surprised...im less surprised that a Hyundai is the most reliable car in America right now on paper.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
IMO, the 4.3L V6 based off of the 350 V8 is simply bulletproof. The 3100/3400 are excellent V6s other than the gasket problem.

Excellent engine, I have the 4.3L V6 in my Blazer LT and it runs awsome, never any problems and im already at 74,000 after owning it for less than 2 years and starting with 39,000. Infact just put a nice Westin brushguard with halogens this weekend so we shall see how this turns out.

ACDC8...your generalizing so much it really isnt fair. My uncle has a Seat, does this mean all VWs are total crap? (hehe certainly the Phaeton is no workhorse hehe but still)
 
AC777LR
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:59 pm

I am more partial to Chrysler out of the American Big three, but that being said we do own a Hummer H2 with the 6.0L Vortech engine. It takes a beating and keeps on ticking. I would say that both cars that you are looking at will be great cars. I have driven them both and prefer the Impala as it is a weee larger. Would you consider a Charger or a 300C? Think HEMI Big grin
Member since April 2000
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2893
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 23):
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Although the reliability of an A4 would be similar to the GM models

Not true.

So what are you saying? According to Consumer Reports, the Audi A4 has average to below average reliablility, like the Century/Regal/Impala. The Accord and Camry are significantly above average.
.......
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:23 am

I would have to say that I tend to agree with ACDC on this issues. Abou buying a Impala or Buick, I would rather buy these:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nissan-Murano-SE-...categoryZ84163QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.ca/Toyota-Camry-LE-S...QcategoryZ6017QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Murano is on the high end and camry on the low end. Honda, Audi and Chrysler should also be given deep consideration if you have the $$$$. Hope you have fun.  Wink
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:27 am

Ok, where did we leave off?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
Wrong again. The new C6 Z06 has been setting some incredible times at tracks such as Nurburgring.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?new...02690

The "Blue Devil" is not a standard Z06 and may or may not be produced.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
As you can see, it was only behind the Carrera GT, a $440000 car, and the $1000000 McLaren. It beat the snot out of the 911:

http://www.baileymotorsports.com/nurburgring.html

Pretty sad that a poorly-built cheap GM car beat the hell out of many of the the top European supercars, eh? And what does it cost, mmm $70000?

Fluke ...  Wink Just for the record, when I said that GM's are "poorly built", I meant the design and material choice, and not the workmanship that is put in to them.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
Your opinion.

The GM 3800 V6 was rated among the top, if not the top of 100 engines by JD Power & Associates after a long term study. Also among Ward's 10 Best Engines of the century.

IMO, the 4.3L V6 based off of the 350 V8 is simply bulletproof. The 3100/3400 are excellent V6s other than the gasket problem.

I have repair bills, invoices, warranty receipts that beg to differ.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
No, there are not. You are trying to put forward your opinions as facts, just because you haven't had top experience with GM cars. In reality - your opinion means squat in the grand scheme of things, and so does mine. There are NOT set principles concerning which car maker makes the most and least reliable cars. Everybody has different opinions of what constitues reliabilty, everybody has different opinions on cars, their value, etc, etc etc. There are studies of course, but many of them which point in every direction.

The overall point is, is that nothing is set in stone regarding this subject.

I am not forwarding my opinions as facts. My opinions are irrelevant. However, since I deal with different car manuracturers several times a week, I have a good picture in what overall reliability is. I don't need magazine A to tell me this or magazine B to tell me that. I have the facts everyday when I go to work. Other people have different experiences, thats also a fact.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
While the problems you may experience may be facts, that doesn't make your opinions (that GMs are cheap and not reliable) fact. It doesn't, no matter how you want to spin it. You are one case and nothing else, and so am I.

Also, I'm sure that you're aware that there are probably countless other businesses that love their GM vehicles, that love them for their value and reliability - that's why GM keeps selling countless vehicles to businesses.

Again, opinions are opinions and facts are facts. My opinions are again, irrelevant. They are my opinions as are yours. You own a Grand Am, you love it, thats great. That's your opinion. You haven't had any problems with, great that's fact. I can't stand the Grand Am, my opinion. I have had countless problems with numerous Grand Ams, that's fact.

The reason why GM sells countless vehicles to businesses is for the simple fact that they are low in price. Some businesses may have a few vehicles where the reliability is not as important, but we have several hundred vehicles that we need on the road. We have bought several GM's in the past, however in recent years we have been buying more and more Toyota's and Nissans. In fact, this year, we will be purchasing about 100 Nissan Altimas as opposed to the Pontiac G6. Simply because they spend less time in the shop and we have had more positive customer feedback on them as opposed to the Grand Am, G6, and Impalas.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 36):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
This is because most people who spend that kind of money, expect to get something for it.

So people who spend $60K on a Corvette don't get anything?



Again, the 911 is 2-3 times more expensive than the Vette, but is it 2-3 times the car? Heh.

$77,000 to $100,000 is 2-3 times more then $60,000? I'm talking about the base models here, and not even going into a Carrera GT4. My point was that Porsches base model has a much better design and quality build to it then Chevy's top of the line sports car. All you have to do is simply sit in both cars, look and feel around and the results are obvious. Don't get me wrong, the Vette is a good car, and is getting better. But US car manufacturers are still lacking behind in choosing higher quality materials.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 32):
Did you just call me son? Whatever kiddo! I was halfway in the shower, forgive me of my spelling sin ....

I wouldn't say that with the errr...population that we have here.

Oops, I didn't think about that!  blush 

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
Thats a ridiculous statement...the Porsche and the Corvette are NOT made for the same driving....you think the Impreza and Camaro are (were) made for the same thing? Please. I dont care what you want to compare to the Corvette..but if you will, compare same class like Lancer Evolution + Impreza or heck Mondeo + Vectra.

Then give me a comparrison that you think is fair.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
Sorry, but what do VWs have that US cars do not? And what consolation is it if they are electrical problems...that answer supposed to serve a purpose? There arent that many features that arent available on a US car and on a BMW. Compare an 2006 CTS and BMW 330. Whatever you put here the BMW most likely drives better for a person like you or me but not everyone is looking for that. The differences are not as significant where they are worlds apart.

Lets start with the basics. HID lighting systems? How many US manufacturers even offer them? Not many, and only on their top models. VW and other Euro manufacturers offer them at least as an option on even their most base models. Nav systems are offered on very few US cars yet almost a standard feature in new European models. As far as BMW and Benz goes, just go to a showroom next time you're in Europe and take a gander. There are toy's and gadgets available directly from the dealership that aren't even concievable in the US, the "I Drive" system just as an example. On a BMW you can even control your house lights through the GPS system.

Anyway, I gotta cut this short but I'll finish up my "rant" later....  Wink
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
The "Blue Devil" is not a standard Z06 and may or may not be produced.

During testing, it was a prototype - now it is standard, and available. Besides the fact, the point still stands -- you're completely wrong about its handling abilities.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
Just for the record, when I said that GM's are "poorly built", I meant the design and material choice, and not the workmanship that is put in to them.

Uh-huh, and it still stands that GM's "poorly built" Corvette is putting out amazing performance figures that match, if not beat Europe's top and most expensive supercars. This has been the case since the birth of the Corvette.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
I have repair bills, invoices, warranty receipts that beg to differ.

Again, it doesn't matter. Just because you've personally had bad experiences with GM, doesn't mean that GMs are just crappy. It doesn't. No matter how you want to spin it, you are one case and nothing else, and the automotive world doesn't evolve around you. You're making very naive statements.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
I am not forwarding my opinions as facts.

Yes, you are. Whenever you keep saying that GMs are crappy, you are pushing that as a fact, and you are trying to back yourself up with only your personal experiences.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
The reason why GM sells countless vehicles to businesses is for the simple fact that they are low in price.

Again, a bullshit statement. First, you try to speak for every consumer in saying that they are cheap, poorly built and poorly designed, and now you're trying to do the same for all businesses which use them.

You think price is the only reason why businesses buy countless GMs? Uh, they have other choices for cheap fleet vehicles from Ford and Dodge as well. It can't be just price.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
$77,000 to $100,000 is 2-3 times more then $60,000? I'm talking about the base models here

If you're talking about base models, you're numbers are off: Base model Corvettes retail as low as 44.5K, Porsche 911s (Non-turbo) retail right around 100K. That's more than two times the cost. Sources are Edmunds, Yahoo Auto, and KBB.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
My point was that Porsches base model has a much better design and quality build to it then Chevy's top of the line sports car.

It better be - Chevy isn't asking for 100K for a Vette. Your point is moot.




-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-11 23:26:12]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 41):
Nav systems are offered on very few US cars

Nav systems are currently offered on many US models from GM, Ford, and Dodge.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
AC777LR
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:43 am

The Nav on the Dodge is the best one though, They offer a 6disc MP3 Changer with DVD nav, GM only offers a Single CD with DVD nav (indash) ford I think has a CD rom Nav. I have the Dodge Navigation in my Magnum, its awesome.
Member since April 2000
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting RNOcommctr (Thread starter):
I am looking to buy about a 2003 Chevy Impala or 2003 Buick Century (or Regal). Both of these cars are rated as reliable by Consumer Reports. They appeal to me because of the medium size and comfort. I also like the fact that only GM cars in this size and price range have dual-zone climate control, a feature I need to preserve my marriage

Buy the Impala.

BTW, having watched my parents suffer with GM vehicles over the last 20 years I finally got the call from my mother who asked me to help in giving her info. for a purchase of a Mercedes or an '06 330i like mine. Instead, I'm going to point her towards a Lexus GS300. A German car would be overkill for her.

GM cars just fall apart after 30K miles of all around driving - it's pathetic what their durability standards are.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:21 am

OK, I'm back....

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
Yes, and you can tune a Citroen Xsara or a 307 to take apart a 911 on a road with serpentines..my point. Car made for different reason. It is well known that American cars are not made for that kind of driving...let me share a little secret with you why. We dont live between Perpignian and Nice, and our weekend trips do not involve driving from Prague to Krakow. Those roads are far and between, and most in the Rocky mountains and upper midwest (kettle moraine, UP etc.) for us in the USA, hardly filled with car enthusiasts like us.

I agree with you 100%. Cars are made for different purposes and different markets. And from my experiences, the European market is much harder to satisfy then the American market. This is exactly what I mean by poor design and build quality.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
On paper a Rolls Royce, Mercedes, VW, Land Rover are way less reliable than a Buick...does that shock you...because Im hardly surprised...im less surprised that a Hyundai is the most reliable car in America right now on paper.

All cars have there share of problems in reliability, yet GM's (among others) seem to have to be bringing in their cars to the shops for the same problems over and over and over again. Even the mechanics admit to the fact that there are several design flaws built into the vehicles.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
ACDC8...your generalizing so much it really isnt fair. My uncle has a Seat, does this mean all VWs are total crap? (hehe certainly the Phaeton is no workhorse hehe but still)

Given the range of GM vehicles I deal with everyday, I would say that I have a fairly good understanding of what kind of problems they have. Take the Buick LeSabre as an example, a very common problem for them is that after a while, 2 cylinders will retire and the engine will be running on only 4. This happens to at least 1 in 4 LeSabres. I never said anything about GMs or any other cars being crap. I've also worked in Europe for the last 10 years, so I have a pretty good picture of the vehicles, qualities, options offered on both sides of the pond.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
During testing, it was a prototype - now it is standard, and available. Besides the fact, the point still stands -- you're completely wrong about its handling abilities.

I haven't seen it offered anywhere or on any website. If it is being produced and sold to the general public, it will be a vast improvement for the Vette's image, especially overseas.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
Uh-huh, and it still stands that GM's "poorly built" Corvette is putting out amazing performance figures that match, if not beat Europe's top and most expensive supercars. This has been the case since the birth of the Corvette.

Enough of the Corvette, let's talk about everyday cars. How about we put up your Grand Am with it's V6 against an Opel Astra, quite comparable and the Opel will outhandle your Grand Am. Not bad for a little 4-banger. I used an Opel as an example, just to show you that GM can design good cars, not just for our shores.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
Again, it doesn't matter. Just because you've personally had bad experiences with GM, doesn't mean that GMs are just crappy. It doesn't. No matter how you want to spin it, you are one case and nothing else, and the automotive world doesn't evolve around you. You're making very naive statements.

Again, where have I said GM's are crappy? Yes, I have had bad experiences with GM's, but given the fact on how many GM's I'm responsible for, that gives me a bit more of an insight who may have owned a few models in his/her lifetime.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
Yes, you are. Whenever you keep saying that GMs are crappy, you are pushing that as a fact, and you are trying to back yourself up with only your personal experiences

See previous reply.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
Again, a bullshit statement. First, you try to speak for every consumer in saying that they are cheap, poorly built and poorly designed, and now you're trying to do the same for all businesses which use them.

Calm down. I am not trying to speak for every consumer in any way. Don't take this all so personally. Where are you getting this? Clear you head. I'm not trying to change your mind (or anyone else's for that matter) in any way. Just because you love your Grand Am doesn't mean that everyone else has to. Just because you haven't had any problems with your GM doesn't mean that other people have not. It's a big world out there, and there are lot's of different stories and experiences.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
If you're talking about base models, you're numbers are off: Base model Corvettes retail as low as 44.5K, Porsche 911s (Non-turbo) retail right around 100K. That's more than two times the cost. Sources are Edmunds, Yahoo Auto, and KBB.

I used the $60,000 from your quote. Check your own responses first.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
It better be - Chevy isn't asking for 100K for a Vette. Your point is moot

You might wanna check your local Porsche dealer for prices or at least their website.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 43):
Nav systems are currently offered on many US models from GM, Ford, and Dodge.

Care to list some? Let's keep it simple, such as cars for us normal people, and not high end models. How about the G6? Grand Prix? Focus? Coblat? PT Cruiser? Fly over to Europe, you can get them offered from the dealer for even their cheapest models such as the Ford Fiesta or Focus.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
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RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:50 am

Porsche 911s (Non-turbo) retail right around 100K.

Sorry man, a base 911 Carrera has a price of $71,300

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera/
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
I haven't seen it offered anywhere or on any website.

Neither have I, but according to GM boards and sources, it is officially "out," whatever that means.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
If it is being produced and sold to the general public, it will be a vast improvement for the Vette's image, especially overseas.

I hope so -- and it will be produced and sold to the general public - no question about it. The C6 Z06 is alive and well.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
How about we put up your Grand Am with it's V6 against an Opel Astra, quite comparable and the Opel will outhandle your Grand Am. Not bad for a little 4-banger.

So what? You're point is moot. The Grand Am isn't meant to handle well -- it's a sporty looking midsize sedan. Again, your point is moot - if GM wanted the Grand Am to handle better than it does, it would have designed it so, and they could have designed it so. Of course, you probably don't believe this. Besides that, the Opel Astra's little 4 banger puts out a measly 123HP and 125 ft. lbs. of torque -- I'd like to see it take my V6 Grand Am anywhere but steep turns.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
Again, where have I said GM's are crappy?

You say they are built and designed poorly, and with "poor" materials -- basically you're saying that they are crap. Same thing, but shorter.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
but given the fact on how many GM's I'm responsible for, that gives me a bit more of an insight who may have owned a few models in his/her lifetime

That's true, but my point stands. You see, you're certainly entitled to your opinions about how poor GMs are -- and despite your job, you are still one person -- and you cannot lay forth your opinions as if they apply as reality. You can't. Many businesses like yours are probably very happy with their GMs, have you yet to consider that? No, instead you presume that all businesses which buy GMs do so simply because they are cheap.

It's naive statements like that which are the basis of our disagreement.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
Calm down. I am not trying to speak for every consumer in any way. Don't take this all so personally. Where are you getting this? Clear you head.

I'm quite calm. I'm not taking anything from you personally, believe me.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
Just because you love your Grand Am doesn't mean that everyone else has to. Just because you haven't had any problems with your GM doesn't mean that other people have not. It's a big world out there, and there are lot's of different stories and experiences.

And? Where have I said nor implied anything to the contrary? I think you're not understanding what my point is about your statements against GM.

So, use the example mentioned above -- where you say that every business that buys GM vehicles does so because they are cheap. Not only are you trying to speak for every business that buys GM vehicles, you are ignoring the fact that these businesses have other cheap options, and that many of these businesses are probably happy with their GMs.

Again, I don't have a problem with your disappointment in GM -- people have different experiences -- my problem centers around your naive remarks.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
I used the $60,000 from your quote. Check your own responses first.

And that figure concerned the Z06 corvettes, which range from 60-70K, the C6 Z06s are probably towards 70.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
You might wanna check your local Porsche dealer for prices or at least their website.



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 47):
Sorry man, a base 911 Carrera has a price of $71,300

My mistake -- the figure of 100K was the 911 GT3 - and I thought that was the base model -- since the sites only had that and the 911 turbo.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):
Care to list some? Let's keep it simple, such as cars for us normal people, and not high end models. How about the G6? Grand Prix? Focus? Coblat? PT Cruiser? Fly over to Europe, you can get them offered from the dealer for even their cheapest models such as the Ford Fiesta or Focus.

First of all, look at your previous comment to which I replied:

Quote:
Nav systems are offered on very few US cars

You said nothing about "normal" cars in the first place. Second, you remain wrong. Nav systems are offered as options in many US cars, trucks, and SUVs now -- Ford Explorer, Chevy Tahoe, Chevy IMPALA, etc, and now they are either standard or offered in higher up cars as well. Why should I spend more time listing models for you? You are the one denying it, see for yourself.



-NWA742

[Edited 2005-12-12 02:12:21]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
RNOcommctr
Topic Author
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Chevy Impala Or Buick Century?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:04 am

Back to one of my original points: the vehicle MUST have dual-zone climate control. I like to be at about 65 degrees, my wife at about 77 degrees. I am tired of driving around in her Mazda Protege with the heater going full blast and my window down when it's about 35 degrees outside! That's one reason I like my '96 Chevy Monte Carlo. Now admittedly, the '03 Century/Regal/Impala may not quite be up to Honda/Toyota reliability, but yet Consumer Reports all three of these '03 GM's as above average in reliability. Who else in this price range offers dual-zone climate control? No one, unless you're talking about an Audi or an Acura with 150,000 miles.

Who knows, maybe I'll throw a rebuilt engine in my Monte Carlo...
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