kaddyuk
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My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:57 am

Hey All,

I thought i might go for two castrations in one day from Janni so here goes...

My outlook on marriage is the following; I'm not a religious person infact, i'd call myself pretty Atheist. I was christened but that was at a time when i didnt have the choice not to. Not that we're thinking about it, but me and janni were discussing it when we came to logger heads. I dont wish to get married. I'm not religious, i have no place in a church, i have no right walking into a church and promisingto "god" to follow the christian laws and rules of marriage just as much as i have no right to a Muslim, jewish or buddhist wedding.

Again we carried onwards to just having a "legal" wedding. And I guess i can see the benefits of that but i dont need to sign a piece of paper just to prove my love to someone do I?

My parents have been together over 22 years and they are not married. My aunt and uncle have been together for close to 20 years and they've only just decided to get wed. Perhaps this has had an effect on me but its not something I wish to partake.

Anyone else like to share their view?
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:11 am

Just to add, it was just a discussion- we're fast, but not THAT fast  Wink

Thinking of getting married someday seems like a natural part of life to me. Of course I could live without getting married, but to me, it's certainly a big thing.

To me, it's not just a ring or a piece of paper or a thing you do to prove that you love each other- to me, it's something you do when you know a person is "the one", that you want to spend the rest of your lives together- a thing that you share with THE special person in your life.

In a non-romantic view, it has a lot of legal views as well. If you want to settle down in the country of your spouse as the citizen of that country, rights when one spouse passes away/dies, once/if children are in the picture, etc.

So it IS very important to me. I could live without it. I'd just rather not  Wink
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KevinL1011
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:18 am

Quoting Jap (Reply 1):
To me, it's not just a ring or a piece of paper or a thing you do to prove that you love each other- to me, it's something you do when you know a person is "the one", that you want to spend the rest of your lives together- a thing that you share with THE special person in your life.

It shouldn't take a contract for two people to prove their love.

It takes 3 things...Communication, Understanding and Trust. Once you have that, Love is inherently present.

The only reason to get married, is to have children. THEN....get a contract.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
TNboy
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:18 am

I'm sure there is middle ground somewhere, not that it really concerns anyone except you two guys. But really, it's about commitment, isn't it, and the importance (or otherwise) of showing that commitment to the other person?
Cheers
Bill
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:28 am

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 2):
It shouldn't take a contract for two people to prove their love.

It shouldn't. I never said that it should. To me, it's something that two people share. Not something they do to prove anything.

Quoting TNboy (Reply 3):
But really, it's about commitment, isn't it, and the importance (or otherwise) of showing that commitment to the other person?

I think it's important. I'd be proud to be married and showing that commitment to my man, I really would. It wouldn't mean the world to me if I had to give that up because he doesn't want to or feels it isn't important, but it is important to me.  Smile
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RobK
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:34 am

KaddyUK, first thing that strikes me is that you're planning on getting married before you're 20 (according to your profile). What's wrong with that, I hear you cry! Hmm, difficult to put into words without sounding patronising, but to not put too fine a point on it, young marriages more often than not end in tears and I wouldn't like to think that you're rushing into something too quickly (been there, nearly done that).

That aside, my upbringing was pretty much identical to yours from what I can gather; born Christian, baptised etc, church-goer every Sunday with my Old's until I got to about 15 and then wondered WTF I was doing and quickly put an end to that and became atheist. Never been in a church since and now 28.

Marriage scares me to be brutally honest. I just don't EVER think I'd be able to commit myself to one woman for the rest of my life - which despite now claiming to be atheist, agree that that's what marriage is all about. I'm single at the moment and have been for a while (and thoroughly enjoying it), but a good number of years ago I got serious with a chick and she wanted to tie the knot in true white wedding church fashion and I instantly got cold feet. Firstly because the word marriage rang a whole rafter of alarm bells in my head and secondly because I didn't want a white wedding thing either!

Things got heated, tempers flared and she tried every blackmail trick in the book - "well if you REALLY loved me you'd.." [insert appropriate scenario, the favourite being "..marry me in a proper church" (words to that effect)]. I was having none of it as I won't tolerate being forced to do something I don't want to do by anyone. Not surprisingly, it all went down hill from here and we split up a couple of months later, pretty much with getting totally pissed off with hearing her same record "well if you really loved me you'd.." over and over again.

Perhaps not much help, if any, sorry. I think the bottom line is that if you're being asked to do something that you don't want to do then don't do it and stand your ground! Easier said than done, I know, but it's either that or face a life of (potential) misery from being forced into something that you don't agree with.

Good luck and hope it works out.

RK  spin 
 
KevinL1011
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Jap (Reply 4):
It shouldn't. I never said that it should. To me, it's something that two people share. Not something they do to prove anything.

I was agreeing with your statement. It's not just a ring and piece paper. However, if that is what it takes to prove love , I would think there may be some insecurity in the relationship.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
jafa39
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:44 am

If it feels good...do it! If you have to think about it....it isn't the right time, and you should carry on being best friends with your girlf/boyf/sheep/whatever.

Mrs Jafa and I met in late May, got married in early October and have been together 22 years, we didn't need to think about it, it felt good, we did it.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
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RobK
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 7):
If you have to think about it....it isn't the right time, and you should carry on being best friends with your girlf/boyf/sheep/whatever.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

Brilliant!

RK
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:34 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 7):
If it feels good...do it!

Andy, you are a romantic!  Smile

The two of you should get married when and if you are BOTH ready for it. If one of you is ready and the other is not, you should not get married. That is a recipe for disaster.

Marriage is not all peaches and cream. It takes work and patience and compromise and tolerance. But then so does a committed relationship. I do not believe that a marriage ceremony makes anything different other than your legal rights. It's not like you are going along and you get married and the next day the sun shines brightly upon you and the birds sing as you walk through the park. It's the same as it was except now you have a legal bond that hopefully means something to both of you.

Janni - if Kaddy is not ready, do not try to make him be ready. If he doesn't want to get married you will not be doing yourself or anyone any favours by trying to persuade him. But Kaddy, you have to respect Janni's point of view too. If it's important to her, can you give her that one day? Truthfully? Speak honestly about it.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 9):
Janni - if Kaddy is not ready, do not try to make him be ready. If he doesn't want to get married you will not be doing yourself or anyone any favours by trying to persuade him.

Don't worry, I'm not even ready myself, so there's nothing to worry about there  Wink

This discussion wasn't really about getting married tomorrow, or the day after or even in a year- it was about our views on marriage. We're not planning anything or trying to persuade anyone.

Kevin respects my views and can see the point in my opinions. And I respect and understand his reasons.

We'll figure something out when that time comes, but right now, it IS a bit too early for all that  Wink
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:08 am

It is good that you are able to communicate. That's huge.

I met Mr. Harlot when I was 18, during orientation week of university. He was 19. Within a month we were talking about one day getting married. We did get married five years later, when we finished university. That was ten years ago.

When I look back now it scares me half to death to think that I got married at 23. I was so young! But one thing that has been nice about it is that we've come through everything together. That has been a good thing. It hasn't always been easy but we've made it so far.

Keep talking about it, Janni and Kevin...that is the best thing you can do.  Smile
But that was when I ruled the world
 
BigOrange
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:08 pm

Normally I would say don't do it. Stay single but live together.

However seeing as you are both citizens of 2 different countries, you may have to get married to live together, unless EU laws supercede UK or Danish law.

You don't have to get married in a church, you can just have a civil ceremony, at a register office or even Boundary Park!
 
cfalk
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:47 pm

Marriage means commitment. It means the security that a couple will be together with much more certainty than otherwise. If you get into a fight with your girlfriend and you walk out, nothing prevents either one from doing something rash and making the split permenant, just over a 10 minute argument. Marriage, even with the far-too-easy divorces, at least force people to think things over carefully and over a period of time before throwing away a relationship, especially when children are involved.

Stability of the parents is a key component of a child's well-being.
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MYT332
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Well if you're not religious then just do what your girl wants. It shouldn't effect you unless it harms your ethics?
One Life, Live it.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:26 am

I can't get married. I'm gay and according to 71% of the people in the state of Missouri who voted against gay marriage my even entertaining the thought of marrying would destroy the fabric of American Society.

Enjoy your special status if you must, but remember those of us who are second-class citizens in our home countries. Funny tho...they still take the same amount of taxes out of my check.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
trvyyz
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Thread starter):
I was christened but that was at a time when i didnt have the choice not to.

I didn't know church baptises chlidren of unwed parents. Sorry about my ignorance.
 
corey07850
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 16):
I didn't know church baptises chlidren of unwed parents. Sorry about my ignorance.

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe it depends on the specific denomination. Some might only allow a baptism in a private ceremony, while others will allow a normal public ceremony. I believe the actual stance is that the church won't punish the child for its parents "sin." There may even be religions (Catholic?) that do not allow it at all.
 
trvyyz
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 17):
I believe the actual stance is that the church won't punish the child for its parents "sin." There may even be religions (Catholic?)

But as per their choice and belief they didn't sin, so why bother baptising their child. Can't you be a Christian without baptism? The children could baptise themselves when they accept belief, so why a futile exercise? I don't get it.

[Edited 2005-12-11 18:12:58]
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
Marriage means commitment. It means the security that a couple will be together with much more certainty than otherwise. If you get into a fight with your girlfriend and you walk out, nothing prevents either one from doing something rash and making the split permenant, just over a 10 minute argument. Marriage, even with the far-too-easy divorces, at least force people to think things over carefully and over a period of time before throwing away a relationship, especially when children are involved.

Stability of the parents is a key component of a child's well-being.

I couldn't agree more! I myself don't think Kevin would just get up and leave me one day, but I certainly agree with this. It DOES add a lot of certainty. Especially for children too.

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 14):
Well if you're not religious then just do what your girl wants. It shouldn't effect you unless it harms your ethics?

To me, that'd be a bit wrong- if one person doesn't want to get married but does it because his/her girlfriend/boyfriend wants to, I don't think it's the right reason to get married... it has to be something both parts want, not something one of them does just because the other person wants to...
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kaddyuk
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:12 am

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 14):
Well if you're not religious then just do what your girl wants. It shouldn't effect you unless it harms your ethics?

Actually, it does affect my ethics...

Quoting RobK (Reply 5):
KaddyUK, first thing that strikes me is that you're planning on getting married before you're 20 (according to your profile).

Woah Woah Woah...! Never! The whole idea is that i NEVER want to get married... I think you missed the point of my post  Wink
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 20):
I think you missed the point of my post  Wink

A lot of people did Big grin

I will try to get you convinced someday though  Silly
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A332
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:33 pm

After watching countless relatives, parents of friends, and other assortments of people go down in messy divorices, I never really did have an optimistic view on marriage...

Then you have to look at what has become of marriage since the same-sex issue went to the center stage... now more than ever it is seen as solely a religious sentiment in the eyes of the "protectors"... (ie: christians & whackie conservatives).

Outside of the tax benefits, marriage holds no value to me. No issues with other people hitching it up, but count me out.
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saxdiva
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:41 pm

Hmm.

I'm a participant in one great marriage, but also the veteran of one messy divorce. Having been there, here's my take:

1. If you have ANY reservations about marriage, even in the slightest, do NOT allow yourself to be talked into it, regardless of where the pressure is coming from. Oh, and while you're at it, be careful of "oopsies." Take it from anyone who's been there (not me, thank heavens), this can tie you to the person you're not sure you want to be with... FOREVER.

2. The corollary to #1: If you find the right person, you might suddenly find yourself more anxious to tie the knot than you realize. It's funny how that works. But make sure you're not so freaked out about committment that you sabotage relationships... that's the Achilles heel of more people, I think, than would ever admit it.

Hope this helps,
Leanne
 
cfalk
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 20):
Woah Woah Woah...! Never! The whole idea is that i NEVER want to get married... I think you missed the point of my post

Then don't get married. It would be terribly unfair to the other person, giving her the impression that she's more than just a role in the hay until you are bored with her.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:09 pm

I have no intention of ever getting married. However that will never stop me from getting into a long term and commited relationship if the urge and the opportunity arises. To me the idea of promising the rest your life away to another individual with the future sight unseen is idealistic because Life so often grabs us by the short and curlies and shakes us with unexpected eventualities.. It also so often means that as individuals we have to compromise ourselves so we can adequately function as a couple, which to me is unnatural.
Marriage to me seems just another form of traditional social ritual that many do just because it is still seen as an essential part of development in traditional life, and as a way of completing an individual personality. As far as I'm concerned I'm my own person, who doesn't actually require 'the other half' (an expression I loathe) to exist, and function effectively, and happily. To many it is their life's goal to find someone to complete them, but for me it sits right down the bottom of my goals/ambitions list somewhere after Death.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
cfalk
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:22 pm

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 25):
To me the idea of promising the rest your life away to another individual with the future sight unseen is idealistic because Life so often grabs us by the short and curlies and shakes us with unexpected eventualities..

Funny how most people in the world who get married manage to deal with it, find support in each other when times are rough and live happily for 50 years or more together.

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 25):
It also so often means that as individuals we have to compromise ourselves so we can adequately function as a couple, which to me is unnatural.

Sounds to me like you are pretty selfish. Do you get no pleasure making someone else happy, even if it is not something you originally wanted to do? Is that not a reward in itself?

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 25):
As far as I'm concerned I'm my own person, who doesn't actually require 'the other half' (an expression I loathe) to exist, and function effectively, and happily.

That's your choice. Some people live their lives as confirmed bachelors all their lives and are happy for it. But others land there accidently, at age 50, with a beer belly and bald spot, and no chance in hell of attracting someone to spend time with you, unless you have money to throw around.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:57 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 26):
Sounds to me like you are pretty selfish. Do you get no pleasure making someone else happy, even if it is not something you originally wanted to do? Is that not a reward in itself?

I am, I will not deny it. I make people happy when it suits me to, but continual submission for other's benefit makes me feel uncomfortable because it builds up their expectations to an extent that they feel let down when I can't do it time and again for them. I get only limited enjoyment out of it anyway. Keeping expectations low, and exceeding them occasionally works better for me than keeping them high, and failing someone else when they expect better.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 26):
That's your choice. Some people live their lives as confirmed bachelors all their lives and are happy for it. But others land there accidently, at age 50, with a beer belly and bald spot, and no chance in hell of attracting someone to spend time with you, unless you have money to throw around.

You are quite right, it is something I must always be mindful of. One thing I think is in my favour is that I know I can change my lifestyle as and when I need, whatever the circumstances need at that point in time is what I'll do. From where I am at this point in my life I see no point for sharing with another, perhaps once I hit 30 or 40 I will change my outlook because biological clocks have a habit of doing that to a person, but so far I've never had a circumstance tricky enough that I needed a partner to help me through something, or for me to find a solution I was happy with. Nothing in life is absolute so I guess I came on pretty strong by saying it was on my list after death, but yeah that's me as I am at this moment in time.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
DeskPilot
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:58 pm

Quoting Kaddyuk (Thread starter):
And I guess i can see the benefits of that but i dont need to sign a piece of paper just to prove my love to someone do I?

Depends on your partner's views. My wife is catholic and wanted to get married at a church. I'm not religous so the chruch meant little to me. However, it was improtant to my fiance and her family so I was willing to do this to make her happy.

So, if marriage is important to your partner, then consider it. If not, then live together.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:41 pm

Kevs, you're busted  Silly

Taken from the thread "Whats Ur Goal In Life?" by Trekster- Archived Non-Av.

Quote:
Long Term Prospects
1) Chartered Civil Aircraft Engineer (JAR 66 Cat C Licenced)
2) Live and Work in Asia/Oceana
3) Have wife and 3 kids, nice house
4) Good Health

Posted back in July  Wink You confuse me, man  Silly
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cairo
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:55 am

Marriage, at least its American form, is an institution to benefit women. The natural state of men is to spread their seed as far and wide as possible; women are nest builders. Sex with the same person is boring after about 6 months and they stop giving oral sex after the wedding day anyway.

On the other hand, if you're planning to have kids, I think marriage is the ideal state, purely from the point of view of the kids.

If kids are coming: sereiously consider getting married. If no kids: keep it simple and stay single.

Cairo
 
cfcuq
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting Jap (Reply 29):
Quote:
Long Term Prospects
1) Chartered Civil Aircraft Engineer (JAR 66 Cat C Licenced)
2) Live and Work in Asia/Oceana
3) Have wife and 3 kids, nice house

Hmmmmmmm.... possible translation: already has wife and 3 kids ?  redflag 
 
jap
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RE: My Outlook On Marriage...

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 31):

Hmmmmmmm.... possible translation: already has wife and 3 kids ?  redflag 

Aaaah, hell no!  rotfl 

He doesn't- and just for the record; I'm kidding- things change, and his views are understandable  Wink
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