prosa
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Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:18 pm

Video clip, courtesy of the National Institutes for Standards and Technology:

http://www.flurl.com/featured/M3RRY_CHR1STM4S_16985.html
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Go3Team
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:22 pm

What did they do, spray gas around the room first? That thing went up quick.
Yay Pudding!
 
jaysit
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:22 pm

That was an ugly apartment.

Pity it didn't burn any faster.

As for artificial Christmas trees, why bother? Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Mir
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:38 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
As for artificial Christmas trees, why bother? Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Klaus
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
As for artificial Christmas trees, why bother? Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction.

You're missing quite a few facts of life there, apparently...! Big grin
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:41 pm

There was very heavy air circulation in that "test room"...you can see it towards the end of the film....as the smoke is quickly transported around. This acts as a bellows and feeds the fire.

Perhaps the environmental movement, in conjunction with the makers of artificial trees....have combined to put pressure on the Institute of Standards and Technology.

Several times I have used long-dead pine branches as kindling on camp fires and never, I mean never, has it ever flashed like shown on that video. Heck, if you dipped a totally brown and dry Christmas tree in charcoal lighter fluid the fire would not spread near as fast as depicted.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
As for artificial Christmas trees, why bother? Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction.

Just what exactly do you do with your christmas tree.........?
 
jwenting
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:37 pm

My parents never wanted a plastic tree, but since my mother lost a foot a few years ago and my father had a serious heart attack they can no longer handle a real one of any decent size.
They're now happy that plastic trees exist else they couldn't have a tree at all.

For people living in cities it's also handy as often it's hard to get rid of a tree there, and I don't want to think of hauling one up 5 stories to an apartment through narrow hallways.
I wish I were flying
 
AGC525
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:07 pm

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
What did they do, spray gas around the room first? That thing went up quick.

I've seen that video and lots more like it in firefighter training classes. That's what will happen to a poorly watered tree. Also keep in mind that a fire doubles in size every 30 seconds (which is obvious in the video). The video shows the first stage of a fire, the incipient stage, the second which is free burning. It cuts off before the room "flashed over" meaning all contents in the room have reached their ignition tempature, and gets around 1200 degrees. The final phase is smoldering, where your greatest chance of a "backdraft" can occur. That is if the fire is given a sudden burst of oxygen, and the area explodes.
American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
 
KROC
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:45 pm

I'll take my chances with a real tree. I'll just make sure the humidifier is all squared away.  Wink
 
dl021
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:20 pm

A real tree is the way to go. We already have ours up, but next year we'll do the recyclable tree and replant the thing for the following year.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction.

Um...ok. er...are you talking from experience?  Wink
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:53 pm

I have only had artifical trees in my apartment. I am not home most of the day so it can be difficult to maintian a real tree safely. You don't have to go out and buy a new tree every year and you can buy a decent fake tree for less that several years real trees. You also don't have to a mess when you take down the tree, just take it apart and put it into the box. If you need the pine scent to make you feel better, then buy some pine scented candles or oil.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:39 pm

My mother has a fake tree-with the lights on it.

She lives alone, so I don't blame her. It's not heavy and fairly easy to set up.
Go big or go home
 
ZRH
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
As for artificial Christmas trees, why bother? Its like having a prosthetic penis. It may look like the real thing, but it sure as hell doesn't bring any satisfaction

Haha, you made my day Big grin Big grin . For me it is no question, either a real tree or none. BTW, this will be a shock for all our US readers, we always use real candles and the electric ones only outside. As my brother and sister in law live in NYC I always had to bring the candles for the tree because you don't get them there very well  Wink .
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:09 am

typical ! at 42 for the first time in my life I go for a 'real' tree for the holiday season and suddenly they are declared dangerous . well , almost everything else that is bad for me I have either never done ( tobacco , heroin , unprotected sex ) , or have given up ( drinking caffeine , smoking dope , housework ) ... and a guy needs at least one bad thing in his life ..... so I'm keeping it .
 
SlamClick
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
What did they do, spray gas around the room first? That thing went up quick.

Nothing about that was faked or even unrealistic.
It would burn exactly like that in your home.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 5):
There was very heavy air circulation in that "test room"...you can see it towards the end of the film....as the smoke is quickly transported around. This acts as a bellows and feeds the fire.

Nonsense. It is called convection current and it is entirely generated by the heat of the fire. Watch it again. The fire starts the updraft. The superheated air hits the ceiling and fans out in all directions. As the fire gets larger the flame and smoke travel clear across the ceiling to the opposite walls.

All this time the fire is burning the oxygen out of the (more or less) closed space of the room. Oxygen makes up about 21% of the air, so the air volume in the immediate vicinity of the tree is being decreased, causing a partial vacuum. In addition the remaining air, now almost nothing but nitrogen is propeled toward the ceiling by the convective current. This means that air will begin to flow in toward the base of the fire. This sucks the air out from under the hot air at the ceiling and it begins to subside down the walls at the far side of the room.

In a few seconds you have the classic closed-system fire circulation: Rising at the point of the fire, rolling across the ceiling, subsiding at some distance from the fire and flowing rapidly along the surface back towards the fire.

Read something about the fire-bombing of Tokyo or Dresden. Watch a video of an atomic bomb. You will see exactly the same effects on a much larger scale.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 5):
Several times I have used long-dead pine branches as kindling on camp fires and never, I mean never, has it ever flashed like shown on that video.

"Long dead" is the key there. The longer it lies on the forest floor the less pitch it contains. Old dry duff from beneath the trees doesn't burn well at all, mostly smolders until the burning trees above get the air temperature high enough.

I did this little experiment for myself. Took my Christmas tree down one year, took it outside and let it dry for a while, a couple of weeks or so. When I lit it, it burned EXACTLY like the one in this video. A mass of flame in about five seconds and burned out in less than a minute. I lit it with a torch on the end of a broom handle and it still singed my face when it flashed.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 5):
Heck, if you dipped a totally brown and dry Christmas tree in charcoal lighter fluid the fire would not spread near as fast as depicted.

You are absolutely right. The pitch of most conifers burns with much greater intensity than lighter fluid. Lighter fluid is not supposed to flash. Pine pitch is really similar to napalm - I know, I've burned both.

Those of you who still intend to have "real" Christmas trees - be my guest. Chances are, by keeping it watered and absent any real bad luck you should never have a problem. But if you do have a fire it will probably look just like the one on the video.


Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
I'll just make sure the humidifier is all squared away.

If you are talking about an air humidifier here that will not help. They are talking about keeping the tree in a bowl or bucket and keeping water fed to the tree. They don't take their moisture from the atmosphere, but by capillary action up through the trunk and out to the needles on the branches.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:48 am

SlamClick, the convection current being the source of the rotation seen makes sense to me, for some reason I wasn't considering that.  Smile
 
SlamClick
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RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 16):

You are right about the current though. When it gets to the point that the flaming bits are being carried back into the fire it is obvious there is one hell of a wind in that room.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:52 am

I didn't get any soundtrack with the clip - what was the ignition source ? Faulty xmas lights ?
 
prosa
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Why Artificial Christmas Trees Are A Smart Idea

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
I didn't get any soundtrack with the clip - what was the ignition source ? Faulty xmas lights ?

There wasn't any sound. This fire was purposely set, presumably in a laboratory made up to look like a residential living room. I don't know what was used as the ignition source.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"

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