lehpron
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Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:41 am

I want to make a poll, specifically about the makeup of female students in the major/field of engineering or similar technical field, even software computer science and the like.

We're they egotistical?

I don't mean that to be a joke or a slam. The fact of the matter is that girls at Embry-Riddle Aero Univ are a minority, making up approximately 10% at most of the total class size, and are or can get extremely egotistical, arrogant and even ignorant about other people very easily.

I'm wondering if it is the major or it is the school that makes them this way?

I had hoped that in real life some of these women would calm down some as the attention here is overwelming. But in their field of expertise, they still are the minority, so nothing has changed -- hence this may be happening elsewhere at other schools.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:46 am

When I was at Uni we only had 2 girls out of a total of 18 in our Software Engineering lectures.

Both were arrogant bitches who were convinced they were the best programmers and analysts in the world. The truth of the matter is that neither of them could string two lines of code together if their lives depended on it, and their attempts to design any software were laughable.

I ended up line managing one of them at my last job, needless to say i managed to pawn her off to another team before too long. I don't think she stayed long at the company after that, which was no great loss, certainly based on what i saw of her engineering skills - though admittedly she was pretty good at answering the phone.  Smile
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:48 am

At my university there aren't a lot of girls but they don't seem to be like you described...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:48 am

There is an engineering sorority on campus....They were bottom of the barrel in terms of looks, I hate to say it. They were not egotistical, very nice in fact. But not my type.
Go big or go home
 
desertjets
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:03 am

The campus where I work at is not an engineering school. But my undergrad university certainly was.

I would be careful to characterize the women in engineering programs in a singular fashion. Given that there are so few of them, it seems highly likely that the ones that you do notice are those that are outspoken, egotistical, or whatever. There well could be equal or greate numbers that you do not notice that do not meet any of the criteria you've created.


However with that being said women in engineering and the sciences, especially those with high aspirations, likely are going to be outspoken and sometimes arrogant types. It is how you get noticed and gain respect in an all-boys club.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
lehpron
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 4):
I would be careful to characterize the women in engineering programs in a singular fashion. Given that there are so few of them, it seems highly likely that the ones that you do notice are those that are outspoken, egotistical, or whatever. There well could be equal or greate numbers that you do not notice that do not meet any of the criteria you've created.

I have not interacted with all females on campus and I doubt neither have most of my friends either, but they still make the stereotypical claim which has a tendency to be accurate mainly on the incoming freshmen and sophomores, as you said, the outspoken ones, i.e. loud minority.

I have been in their position before, whenever I have a job, they have been majority female and I get looks and stuff. I can be overwelming but them I'm not there for them.  Smile

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 4):
It is how you get noticed and gain respect in an all-boys club.

I thought this was default by gender?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
PIA777
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:59 am

I went to IIT in Chicago and we had a 7-1 Boys to girls ratio in our school.
This is back in 1995. I wonder what it is now.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:02 am

In my days there were Quite a few.But can be a big distraction to us during Football practice,watching us from the stands with those looks  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
texan
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:11 am

Actually, the women I knew in the various engineering programs at SLU were down to earth and very nice. Same for the female pilots. There were a couple here and there that were extremely egotistical, but not at the same level as the guys.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
We're they egotistical?

I found that an abnormally high number of engineers in general, regardless of gender, background, whatever, were socially repulsive. That's one of the many many many reasons I ditched engineering after two years of hating it.

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 3):
But not my type

Translation: they were sea donkeys.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Translation: they were sea donkeys.

LOL! But not all.. I hooked up with a girl in Civil Engineering just the other night. She may not be the finest a** around, but she's not quite sea donkey material. They were DDDD's boys, not even kidding....  Wow!
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 10):
LOL! But not all.. I hooked up with a girl in Civil Engineering just the other night. She may not be the finest a** around, but she's not quite sea donkey material. They were DDDD's boys, not even kidding....

My buddy hooked up with an engineering major, she had a pretty good body from the looks of it, but had a gap in her teeth wide enough to kick a field goal through.
Go big or go home
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 10):
LOL! But not all.. I hooked up with a girl in Civil Engineering just the other night. She may not be the finest a** around, but she's not quite sea donkey material. They were DDDD's boys, not even kidding....



Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):
My buddy hooked up with an engineering major, she had a pretty good body from the looks of it, but had a gap in her teeth wide enough to kick a field goal through.

And you guys wonder why the girl students have an attitude!?!

 banghead 
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):
And you guys wonder why the girl students have an attitude!?!

Whaaaa!  cry  Cry me a river.. she didn't seem to complain after the 3rd round...
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
norcal
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:49 am

If I was in a school that was nearly all girls I would probably become a man-whore. When you are given so many choices its kind of hard for the girls (or if you reversed the situation, guys) not to become arrogant or selective.

However I haven't noticed this at my school, probably because we have a much larger college, which our program is a part of, with a more even guy/girl ratio.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 14):
When you are given so many choices its kind of hard for the girls (or if you reversed the situation, guys) not to become arrogant or selective

Not when the rest of the school has a more normal male/female ratio, and the Textiles/Design school more than makes up for lost Engineering females  Silly.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I found that an abnormally high number of engineers in general, regardless of gender, background, whatever, were socially repulsive.

We have a winner... I think Mav's observation is dead on. It does seem that a disturbing majority of engineers have both an inflated ego and terrible social skills. Not all, of course... but I don't think I'm out of line in suggesting that it's a majority.

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
LY744
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I found that an abnormally high number of engineers in general, regardless of gender, background, whatever, were socially repulsive.



Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 16):
It does seem that a disturbing majority of engineers have both an inflated ego and terrible social skills.

Our social skills are fine. We just can't stand talking to idiots.




Note: The above was a joke. If, after having read this, you are still jumping to conclusions about engineers, you are, in fact, an idiot.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
sovietjet
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 6):
I went to IIT in Chicago and we had a 7-1 Boys to girls ratio in our school.
This is back in 1995. I wonder what it is now.

PIA777

Hey, I go to IIT now and it hasn't changed much. BTW what was your major? Were you able to find a nice job after you graduated?
 
Molykote
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:58 pm

The most uppity of the female engineers were the least competent.

The capable female engineers had nothing to prove.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
Cleco
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:59 am

I started at Riddle, now at Lehigh...the engineering majors at riddle didn't seem too arrogant, very confident though.
EMBRY-RIDDLE BABY
 
brettbrett21
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:04 am

In my physics class this year (Alevel) there are no girls at all and very few in the other classes.
Last year we had two girls, both very nice and down to earth but also had very strong personallities and were outspoken, a good thing!

Im going on to do Engineering next year and I have no hopes for finding nice, attractive females in my classes...thats what pubs are for!!
I think it'll be better like that anyway, better for the concentration in class.

brett  Smile
i'm so excited i wish i could wet my pants!
 
Logan22L
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 13):
Cry me a river.. she didn't seem to complain after the 3rd round...

Man, that's a lot of batteries.  Wink

Back at WPI in the early 1980's the men outnumbered women by about 20 to 1 (fortunately, Becker Jr. College and the Becker Pecker Wreckers were only a mile away). I'd say it was a mix of nice women at WPI, but some snooty ones as well. Of course, some of the guys were snooty too...
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
irelayer
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
I don't mean that to be a joke or a slam. The fact of the matter is that girls at Embry-Riddle Aero Univ are a minority, making up approximately 10% at most of the total class size, and are or can get extremely egotistical, arrogant and even ignorant about other people very easily.



Quoting Gordonsmall (Reply 1):
Both were arrogant bitches who were convinced they were the best programmers and analysts in the world. The truth of the matter is that neither of them could string two lines of code together if their lives depended on it, and their attempts to design any software were laughable.

At my school (San Diego State) I knew of 10, maybe 15 girls in Engineering (as a whole, across all types mechanical computer aerospace...) but I was not an Engineering major. In CS (my major) I noticed that if you take out the Indian, Chinese/Taiwanese, and Vietnamese people, the ratio is pathetic...probably 20:1. If you include those three groups, it is quite a bit more even...probably 3:2.

I think you are observing a phenomenon that hasn't quite dawned on a lot of people yet...since women perceive that they are outnumbered by a large margin (and they often are) they feel isolated and insecure. They have to show they are "one of the geeks" so to speak and so they are often very outspoken and eager to prove themselves. As bad as it sounds, whenever I see a girl in one of my CS or math classes I AUTOMATICALLY assume she has no talent at all, and I know this is the majority perception among males, even though this has proven to be completely untrue multiple times. Imagine being a women in such a field and having to deal with that perception all the time...it must be very difficult. So what I think you are seeing is a side-effect of that circumstance, nothing more.

-IR
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
I think you are observing a phenomenon that hasn't quite dawned on a lot of people yet...since women perceive that they are outnumbered by a large margin (and they often are) they feel isolated and insecure. They have to show they are "one of the geeks" so to speak and so they are often very outspoken and eager to prove themselves. As bad as it sounds, whenever I see a girl in one of my CS or math classes I AUTOMATICALLY assume she has no talent at all, and I know this is the majority perception among males, even though this has proven to be completely untrue multiple times.

WOW.

I have a Bachelor of Mathematics degree from the top geek school in Canada, the University of Waterloo. I never felt the need to be 'one of the geeks'. In high school math classes the guys felt the need to bring me down. But these were the guys who really weren't that smart. The smart guys respected me and I did them. By the time I got to Waterloo, I knew my own worth and I also knew that I had earned the right to be there. Why should I be someone I'm not? I had already had to become strong and there was no way I was going back.

I went into Waterloo with high marks and scholarships. I had the talent to be there. In fact, I kicked the ass of many of the guys who were in my class. I HIGHLY resent that people would assume that just because of my gender I didn't have the right to be there. I EARNED it.

It is attitudes like these that make it harder for girls to go into math and science.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
Imagine being a women in such a field and having to deal with that perception all the time...it must be very difficult.

I am incensed just reading it. Do not EVER assume that just because someone's a girl, she is somehow lesser than you or that she has no talent. How awful!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
irelayer
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 24):
I am incensed just reading it. Do not EVER assume that just because someone's a girl, she is somehow lesser than you or that she has no talent. How awful!



Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 24):

It is attitudes like these that make it harder for girls to go into math and science.

I think you completely misinterpreted my comment. If you took this as a sleight against women engineers and scientists then that was not my intention and I apologize...

Please read carefully...

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
even though this has proven to be completely untrue multiple times. Imagine being a women in such a field and having to deal with that perception all the time...it must be very difficult. So what I think you are seeing is a side-effect of that circumstance, nothing more.

I was speaking to the fact that this is the perception of women in majors like this, so as to provide a partial explanation as to why you have some males resenting the females that "act egotistical". Your overreaction just provides another example of the point I was trying to make. A lot of women I have met in my major and related fields are more prone to get defensive...

As you can see in the bold typeface, my perception was quickly proven wrong. However a lot of people still think lesser of women in these professions. Most of the women that I have met in my major are actually a lot smarter and more talented than most of the men (including me). A lot of them are completely useless though. But then again so are a lot of the men.

I'm sorry if I offended you (and I admit my post was a bit hastily written and poorly worded)...but next time don't get so defensive. Bottom line is that I agree with you and that I see no reason why you should be "incensed".

-IR
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:28 am

Okay, but you also said this, which is what horrifies me.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
As bad as it sounds, whenever I see a girl in one of my CS or math classes I AUTOMATICALLY assume she has no talent at all,

Especially if this has been proven to be untrue, why do you still assume it?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
irelayer
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:37 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 26):
Especially if this has been proven to be untrue, why do you still assume it?

Umm...I don't. Maybe I should rephrase that...

As bad as it sounds, when I first got to college whenever I saw a girl in one of my CS or math classes I AUTOMATICALLY assumed she had no talent at all, (plus read the second part)

Since I was proven wrong time and time again this misperception gradually faded away...

Better?

I was merely trying to establish that this perception exists, for whatever reason, and that it is very counterproductive, especially since women solve problems differently than men and sometimes this is exactly what is needed...

Geesh.

-IR

[Edited 2005-12-15 02:38:59]
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:41 am

Okay. I didn't get anything out of your first post that suggested that you had stopped assuming this. Thanks for the clarification.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:29 am

Here in the Aerospace and Mechanical department at USC, it's probably somewhere around 20% girls. Most of the ones I've known over my extended tenure here have been as nice as anyone else. In fact, they're probably some of the more sociable girls on campus.

Overall, I think USC is maybe 55% girls (if I remember correctly). The majority of them are nice when you get to know them, but a lot of them do exude a kind of southern California smugness, for lack of a better term. There's also a pretty large Greek system here (I think 20-30% of the students are involved), so that contributes to the clique-y feeling.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:14 pm

I'm pretty sure here at Tech we have 20-30% girls (surprisingly a lot of them are pretty good looking). However, most are in Biology, Chemistry, or Biomed...
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:19 pm

Paging FlyF15...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
flyf15
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:20 pm

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 31):
Paging FlyF15...

Greg

I know nothing about women, let alone women in engineering. Big grin
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:28 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 32):

I know nothing about women, let alone women in engineering. Big grin

O RLY???

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
flyf15
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 33):
O RLY???

Greg


 
flyf15
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:40 pm

At my school, the engineering college is just like most others, massive amounts of guys compared with girls. Most are total complete nerds that you probably wouldn't have any interest in. And the desirable ones, it seems there are 500 guys that want each girl.

And since most guys in engineering discuss the guy to girl ratio because they're interested in one, or depressed by the lack of them... here are my thoughts on girls in engineering...

The truly desirable ones... the ones that are cute, nice, good personalities, etc... either don't want anything at all to do with engineering guys, or like engineering guys but can't find a good one because all engineering guys are shy and are too nervous to talk to them.

The ones that don't like engineering guys are usually still nice, but they'll be dropping hints like mad that theres no chance. Try to pick up on these.

The ones that like engineering guys value intelligence. That doesn't mean they're going to be impressed if you can spout off stats from Star Wars or describe a sweet way to write a C++ function. They're going to be impressed that you are generally intelligent and can hold conversations at a higher level... and can educate them subconsciously. They're also going to be impressed that you're able to talk with them and see them as another person, rather than the hot girl that all 4000 other engineers want but can't talk to.

Bottom line, yes there are girls in engineering, and yes, some of these girls are desirable without bad personalities, aren't weird, aren't stuck up, etc. But as with any girl, no matter what the situation, you're not going to have a bit of luck with them unless you talk with them, are confident, and are nice.



Anyways, I've now completely gone on a tangent away from the subject. And yes, I'm an engineer. I also know a few things about female engineers Big grin
 
LY744
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:07 am

Why would you guys want to date another engineer anyways? I've been in engineering for a year and a half and haven't had the slightest interest in any girls I've met in my program ("eng-cest"?). I imagine some engineering schools are bound to be more dull and boring than others, but I suggest you still get involved in activities within the engineering community. I know around here, every good eng event I've attended always had a great turn-out of girls from other majors and even outside the school. Then again, nobody really parties as hard as engineers do (around here anyways, there's no fraternities in sight).


If A346Dude is reading this he may be able to back me up on this stuff.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Logan22L
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 36):
Then again, nobody really parties as hard as engineers do (around here anyways, there's no fraternities in sight).

We had a great number of frats at WPI, and we worked hard, and partied harder. On Tuesday "Slimey Dimeys" we would routinely go through 20 kegs. No classes on Wednesday, but as a Chemistry major, I did have labs in the afternoon.

Sig Ep, who was in our backyard, would routinely go through 25-30 kegs on a Tuesday. Imagine what the weekends were like.

"Those were the days, my friend, I thought they'd never end..."
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
planespotting
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:23 am

im glad i'm in journalism school...


that shit is 60-70% female, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
Zone1
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:04 am

I go to an engineering school in Indiana and I would say most of the girls here are pretty good at what they do. I would say a quarter of them are lazy and just use their looks to try and get people to do favors for them. These are the girls that will only talk to you when they have a homework question or want you to do something for them. They would rather sit alone in the cafeteria than come talk to you, but if they have a homework question, then they will come by. When some of these girls IM me, I'm always like, "oh no, what do they want now."

Our class has an 8-1 ratio. I did find a girlfriend a couple of months ago, but she graduated after Thanksgiving.  crying  Oh well, but she likes aviation does read A.net more than I do!
/// U N I T E D
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 18):
Hey, I go to IIT now and it hasn't changed much. BTW what was your major? Were you able to find a nice job after you graduated?

Not right afterwards. It took me 6 months. I am still working in the same
company (Not as a Mechanical Engineer, most of my co-workers ar EE
or computer science, I do the same as they do) and making big $$$. IIT
was great.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
The fact of the matter is that girls at Embry-Riddle Aero Univ are a minority, making up approximately 10% at most of the total class size, and are or can get extremely egotistical, arrogant and even ignorant about other people very easily.

Why should they be nice? They can pick and choose the guy they want. This is common in places known as "sausagefests"

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
I'm wondering if it is the major or it is the school that makes them this way?

Well, engineers often times have personality problems, I would say the number of girls in engineering who are egotistical bitches probably tracks with the number of men in engineering who are egotistical asses.

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 3):
They were not egotistical, very nice in fact. But not my type.

Yeah, they were probably smarter than you... Can't have that.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
theCoz
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:26 am

When I majored in software engineering, the few girls that were in the class would often whine when things wouldn't go right, and the guy students would hoard around like vultures to carry them through the course. In general, the girls had a much easier time with the course work because of this. That didn't exactly earn my respect.
 
irelayer
Posts: 929
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:20 am

I found this article particularly interesting...it is directly related to this thread:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...uter_science_a_growing_gender_gap/

-IR
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Girls & Engineering At Your College Campus?

Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:47 pm

Thanks for reminding me that i go to ERAU Lehpron...ahahah..

BTW are you in Daytona Beach right now for the holidays? If so feel free to stop by for a beer..

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