usnseallt82
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Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:29 am

Today, President Bush gave a speech to the Philadelphia World Affairs Council about Iraq and the war on terrorism. The difference today was that after he was finished, he opened it up for questions about anything people wanted to ask. He did an excellent job answering questions candidly and giving people straightforward responses. I thought this was one of the best speeches he's given so far and that he did a perfect job of talking about the issues with the Council afterwards.

Here is a link to the transcribed speech, but it doesn't have the question time written in yet. The best and most powerful portion was the questions, so I will post them when the become available.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/...ranscript.philly.speech/index.html

Overall, outstanding job by the President.  bigthumbsup 
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cfalk
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:07 am

He needs to start doing this regularly. He is one of those guys who has never mastered the art of public speaking, and has therefore resisted doing these sort of conferences, and the left has used this to try to convince people that he is an idiot, controlled by puppet masters like Cheney. He is actually quite intelligent. You don't graduate from Harvard and Yale, and then win every political office you ever run for (is that right?) by being a dummy.

I think the American people don't mind if their president doesn't look completely at ease in front of the cameras. They would forgive that, and a lot more, if they see a president willing to answer questions.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
tbar220
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:11 am

Hate to break it to you guys, but there is nothing new about Bush opening his speeches up to "questions and answers". Don't forget though that the questions he accepts are prescreened or scripted, just like he did for his town hall meetings on social securitiy, Iraq, etc. Until I see the transcript for this session, I won't take it as anything else.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Thread starter):
Overall, outstanding job by the President.

OK, he managed to put together four coherent sentences in six? years and you Bush cheerleaders call it "outstanding"!? I know you can't expect too much from him, but still public speaking is basically a part of his job description so what's the big deal?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):
He is actually quite intelligent.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  Anyway, thanks for the laugh Charles!

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):
the left has used this to try to convince people that he is an idiot

Is he not? They don't need to convince anyone. All you need is watch and listen to him for a while and then make up your mind yourself.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:22 am

I watched both the speech and the Q&A session.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Don't forget though that the questions he accepts are prescreened or scripted

http://www.wacphila.org/about/index.html

"The World Affairs Council of Philadelphia is a private, non-profit, non-partisan educational organization dedicated to creating a more informed citizenry on matters of national and international significance.

Established in 1949 as a forum for discussing differing points of view, the Council does not endorse candidates for public office or lobby for policies. Membership is open to all who share its principles. The Council currently serves over 120 corporate members and their CEOs, and more than 4,000 other executives and individual members."


That pointed out, I did find it interesting that the only question Bush "couldn't hear" was the one on the administration's correlation of Iraq and 9/11 that stopped the applause when he asked if the question could be repeated. It appeared that any part of it was scripted, it was his answer, that is improving as of late. "What 9/11 taught me was ... "

I've attended addresses at World Affairs Councils where Washington leaders have spoken, and it's not the same as a campaign appearance, but I wasn't at this particular one, so I can only speak from experience at others.
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:32 am

Interesting that all of the discussions are on the President's style or presentation or method. NOTHING about the substance of his remarks.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 5):
NOTHING about the substance of his remarks.

I take issue with your assessment.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
It appeared that any part of it was scripted, it was his answer, that is improving as of late. "What 9/11 taught me was ... "
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luv2fly
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:36 am

Why was this not on last night! I could not fall asleep not matter what! A few minutes of his speech and sleep would have been assured.
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:37 am

Point taken. I just get frustrated because it always seems to be about personalities (on both sides). We really need an honest debate about the merits of conservative vs. liberal policies, without the scare tactics and obsfucation...
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 8):
Point taken. I just get frustrated because it always seems to be about personalities (on both sides)

I do my best to avoid it, even in the face of many people attempting to use their faulty powers of clairvoyance on my thoughts, without reading what I've posted.
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cfalk
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 3):
Is he not? They don't need to convince anyone. All you need is watch and listen to him for a while and then make up your mind yourself.

Do you really believe that you have to have hollywood-style ease in front of a camera to be intelligent? By your standards, Washington, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would have rated pretty poorly - they all had various speech problems. How about Steven Hawking? Just because a person does not have a particular skill that is easily apparent, does not mean that the rest of his brain works at the same level.

I can't remember the date, but I remember Tom Brokaw reporting (after the 2004 election) that military exam records from when Bush and Kerry went to OCS placed both of them in the high 120-130 IQ range, around the 90th percentile. Actually Bush scored a little higher, but not by more than a couple of points (statistically insignificant).

He's no dummy.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:44 am

The transcript I read of the speech seemed to be better than his usual. (I didn't get to watch it live . . . so I'll refrain from the usual bashing about his oratory art - it is kinda old and dull and repetitive). I would like to see a transcript of the Q&A . . .

Interestingly this wasn't a "Captive Audience" (to coin a phrase regarding his previous speeches) to a military audience. Just a little  stirthepot  there.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Just a little  stirthepot  there.

Since you opened the door ...  duck 

Bush did make a point of using a "big word" just for Arlen Specter.
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dan-air
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:15 am

Speaking as a confirmed "Bush Hater" and "America Hater " sarcastic  I thought his performance during the Q&A was dramatically better than previous outings. He seems conflicted though - at times confident and prepared, yet constantly biting the inside of his cheek.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 13):
confirmed "Bush Hater"

 yes 

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 13):
"America Hater "

 no 

That's why I enjoy the conversation. . . I can tell the difference. Just like Falcon - who wouldn't piss on PotUS if he was on fire. . .

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
even in the face of many people attempting to use their faulty powers of clairvoyance on my thoughts, without reading what I've posted

 Wow!

Can't seem to find a transcipt of the Q&A . . . anyone else?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
Bush did make a point of using a "big word" just for Arlen Specter.

I thought that was pretty funny.  Big grin

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 13):
I thought his performance during the Q&A was dramatically better than previous outings.

This was the point I was trying to drive in by posting this. I felt like he had a much better time answering the questions today and seemed far more confident in his answers than ever before. It was like he told his advisors to shut the f*ck up and let him answer the questions he wants to, in his way. I though he did a pretty good job at it.
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jaysit
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
How about Steven Hawking? Just because a person does not have a particular skill that is easily apparent, does not mean that the rest of his brain works at the same level.

Comparing Bush to Hawking even in passing shows how deep you have your head shoved up his arse.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Can't seem to find a transcipt of the Q&A

It might be part of the Real Player stream available on the front page here, or repeated later tonight:

http://www.c-span.org/

Since copies of speeches are handed out prior to them being given, I would assume it'll be a while before the Q&A session is transcribed and posted in text form anywhere.
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dan-air
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 13):
confirmed "Bush Hater".

Y'know, I agree with most Americans that Bush is a guy they'd like to have a beer with (although he would have to be buying were it him and me at the bar). I just think he's a god-awful president.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
That's why I enjoy the conversation. . . I can tell the difference. Just like Falcon - who wouldn't piss on PotUS if he was on fire. . .

Oh I would...not enough to extinguish the flames of course...(ooops!)
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
I would assume it'll be a while before the Q&A session is transcribed and posted in text form anywhere.

That's correct. Because the Q&A session wasn't planned beforehand, the original transcripts handed out didn't contain it. Hopefully it won't take too long, but I would imagine that it will be a little while before everything is typed up and reviewed for publishing.

Other than that, the audio feed is a good source.  thumbsup 
Crye me a river
 
dan-air
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:45 am

MSNBC has video of a good part of the Q&A.
 
searpqx
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):
He needs to start doing this regularly.



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):
I think the American people don't mind if their president doesn't look completely at ease in front of the cameras. They would forgive that, and a lot more, if they see a president willing to answer questions.

Wow, two statements from CFalk in the same post that I agree with - I'm going to lose so-called "tolerant liberal" status if I'm not careful -  Wink

I was surprised and pleased to see this. I took exception to the "Knowing what I know now, I'd do the same thing over again" part, but at least he answered the questions posed to him.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 21):
I took exception to the "Knowing what I know now, I'd do the same thing over again" part, but at least he answered the questions posed to him.

I took that not to mean "I would make every decision exactly the same" but rather if he had known how difficult it would be, he would still have gone in - he felt it was that important!

In every war we've ever fought, there were thousands upon thousands of decisions made that could/should have been made differently. But those "mistakes" had little or no bearing on the legitimacy of the conflict itself.
 
CX747
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:57 am

I saw this speech while I was home on lunch. I thought it was one of his better speeches and that his answers were on the mark. He was open and candid. It almost looked like he was running for office again! Quite an impressive speech and an even better Q&A period. I hope we see more of this in the future.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
cfalk
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 21):
I was surprised and pleased to see this. I took exception to the "Knowing what I know now, I'd do the same thing over again" part, but at least he answered the questions posed to him.



Quoting CX747 (Reply 23):
I thought it was one of his better speeches and that his answers were on the mark. He was open and candid.

The interesting thing is, IMHO, is that Bush often sounds best when not reading a prepared speech. There he sounds wooden. In impromptu interviews and "off-the-record" video I've seen of him, he can be witty and funny (a very backhanded, almost British sense of humor). I simply don't understand why the administration has not used this aspect of his personality to more advantage.

Maybe he's simply one of those guys who is fine in small groups, but as soon as he has to go out on national TV or a major policy speech, he just can't get the fact out of his mind that, "Oh my God, there are MILLIONS of people watching me." A sort of inescapable stage fright.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 8):
We really need an honest debate about the merits of conservative vs. liberal policies, without the scare tactics and obsfucation...

Being an interested and involved politcal moderate makes me really want to see this happen as well. But I think it is more often the Right who uses scare tactics and avoids the real debate. One could point to the success of universal health care in Canada...then McClennan pops out like a jackinthebox and says well gays marry up there also and god dont like that.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 22):
I took that not to mean "I would make every decision exactly the same" but rather if he had known how difficult it would be, he would still have gone in - he felt it was that important!

One characteristic I respect and admire especially among politicians is for them to be able to say "I know I made a mistake, if I had the chance again I would do something different" I know that with the info available at the time, the right decision was made for war. But its alright to come back afterwards to correct mistakes so they dont happen again.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 22):
In every war we've ever fought, there were thousands upon thousands of decisions made that could/should have been made differently. But those "mistakes" had little or no bearing on the legitimacy of the conflict itself.

100% true, but in this instance the whole case for war with Iraq was weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be a complete lie. Sure bad decisions are made all the time, even by myself...but what makes a person a good or great person IMHO is there ability to learn from experience good and bad as I wrote above.

Exarmywarrant, thanks for your points and I quote you out of respect and making good points I just see them differently. Though I didnt watch it, I have heard it was one of his better speeches so DUBYA if your reading congrats on that...but quit bullshitting me every step of the way.
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 25):
Being an interested and involved political moderate makes me really want to see this happen as well. But I think it is more often the Right who uses scare tactics and avoids the real debate. One could point to the success of universal health care in Canada...then McClennan pops out like a jackinthebox and says well gays marry up there also and god dont like that.

I don't know who McClennan is, but you're right that Gay marriage has nothing to do with the debate on National Health Care.

There are a lot of things about Canada's system that would argue against the "success" of the system, but any discussion needs to start by asking this question: where would Canada, or the UK, or anywhere else with national health care be without the medical and pharmaceutical advancements developed under our "for profit" system?

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 25):
One characteristic I respect and admire especially among politicians is for them to be able to say "I know I made a mistake, if I had the chance again I would do something different" I know that with the info available at the time, the right decision was made for war. But its alright to come back afterwards to correct mistakes so they dont happen again.

Absolutely correct. But our political system has degenerated to the point that if any politician of any stripe EVER said "I made a mistake" he would see it replayed in attack ads within 48 hours.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 25):
100% true, but in this instance the whole case for war with Iraq was weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be a complete lie.

Two points:

1. Its only a lie if you believe what you are saying is not true. If you have evidence the President said something he knew was not true, I'd like to hear it.

2. The fact that there were no weapons found when we got there only means there were no weapons STILL THERE when we got there. They could be in Syria, buried in the desert, destroyed, whatever. Saddam had plenty of time, with all of the folderol the UN went through. But even if they weren't there, President Clinton has stated that HE believed them to be there right up to the day he left office. Why is it so hard to believe that Bush believed it a year later?
 
bushpilot
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 26):
I don't know who McClennan is

McClennan is the current White House Press Sec. I have nothing against him, he is just a puppet but I did prefer to more casual style of Ari Fliesher.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 26):
where would Canada, or the UK, or anywhere else with national health care be without the medical and pharmaceutical advancements developed under our "for profit" system?

%100 true, my only question is how much more of the drug needs to be sold to cover the cost of millions and millions of dollars paid in advertisements.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 26):
"I made a mistake" he would see it replayed in attack ads within 48 hours.


I know sad but true, Id like to see that change, and when im running this country it will!

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 26):
Its only a lie if you believe what you are saying is not true. If you have evidence the President said something he knew was not true, I'd like to hear it.


Fair enough, but I would say there has been plenty of deception coming from this administration about the war.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 26):
The fact that there were no weapons found when we got there only means there were no weapons STILL THERE when we got there.

Yeah understatement of the century to this point. So where are they? and if we can find them in another country would we invade? not Syria or Iran and we know N.Korea has nukes but we arent doing sh!t about them. The slow progress in Iraq has given the Iranian govmt brass balls because they know the US wouldnt invade them to disarm. I think lots of people are overlooking the fact this war wasnt nor has it even been primarily about WMD but instead IMO about oil, revenge, to replace bases lost in Saudi Arabia, to scare the rest of the "Axis of Evil", satisfy the hawks in the administration and support Israel. Please dont get me wrong because I am glad Saddam is out and I hope they hang him. Its just I feel this war was something "personal"
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 27):
I think lots of people are overlooking the fact this war wasnt nor has it even been primarily about WMD but instead IMO about oil, revenge, to replace bases lost in Saudi Arabia, to scare the rest of the "Axis of Evil", satisfy the hawks in the administration and support Israel. Please dont get me wrong because I am glad Saddam is out and I hope they hang him. Its just I feel this war was something "personal"

If the war was about oil, we would be keeping some of it. Otherwise, what's the point?

Revenge? George Bush is the President of the United States. Do you really believe he's gonna jeopardize that opportunity, and get a lot of people killed, just to smack some a**H**** he doesn't like?

If we keep a base in Iraq, which I doubt, it certainly won't amount to much in the big picture of out international capabilities.

If sending a message to Iran and N Korea was the intent, was that a bad thing? Maybe it didn't work as intended, but international affairs seldom do. Ya do the best you can...it seemed to work pretty well on Libya...

Iraq was only a threat to Israel if they had WMD...if we went to war to support the Israelis, that proves we thought they did...
 
CX747
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:52 am

The point was made earlier, but all we know is that there were no weapons found when we got there. Where they went or if they were ever there to begin with is still up in the air. Iraq did have a weapons program etc and could have done a million things with the weapons, technology and personnel.

What people tend to forget is that when this war started, the President said their would be overt and covert operations. What if the weapons were moved to Syria and we knew it? Instead of an international brouhaha with us then going into Syria, we dealt with it differently. 12 F-117s with LGBs bombed the known locations where the weapons were and that was the end of it. The Syrians wouldn't publicly announce us bombing their facilities because that would then bring to light that they had taken the weapons. The United States wouldn't publicly announce bombing Syria either because it wouldn't want it publicly known.

Bush has been a great president and has led us through some pretty rough times. He has made decisions based upon what he thought was best for our country and has not run to see what a CNN/Gallup poll has to say about it.

As for Iran growing a pair, I find that remark highly laughable. If you actually followed what the U.S. military has been up to the last few years you would see who is surrounded and who has surrounded them. In today's paper, Israel (Who definitely has a pair) threatened to bomb the heck out of the Iranians if they find out they are producing nuclear weapons. Wake up and smell the coffee on Iran.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
bushpilot
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 28):
If the war was about oil, we would be keeping some of it


Dont worry we will be...be patient.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 28):
Revenge? George Bush is the President of the United States. Do you really believe he's gonna jeopardize that opportunity, and get a lot of people killed, just to smack some a**H**** he doesn't like?

This is where I say your right and I overspoke a bit. I was mistaken and will learn from that and move on.  footinmouth 

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 28):
If we keep a base in Iraq, which I doubt, it certainly won't amount to much in the big picture of out international capabilities.


Now from what I have come to understand that the US and Iraqi govmnts are currently in negotiations about permanent bases I think three being set up. One in the south, one in the greater baghdad area and one in the north. This was on one of the mainstream media channels, forgive me I dont remember which one. But I think long term bases in Iraq are a given.

[quote=Exarmywarrant,reply=28]If sending a message to Iran and N Korea was the intent, was that a bad thing? Maybe it didn't work as intended, but international affairs seldom do. Ya do the best you can...it seemed to work pretty well on Libya...quote]
I agree with sending messages as long as its the intended one. The leader in Iran is growing more intense with his rhetoric especially about Israel etc. I think part of this comes from the fact that he knows the US would not invade Iran, same goes for NKorea. I would say both govmnts of those respective countries are less afraid of invasion or any potential consequences than they would have been before the insurgency. IMHO its only emboldened the "terrorists" and the countries that support them.
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 29):

Excellent post.  thumbsup 
Crye me a river
 
Falcon84
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 29):
Bush has been a great president and has led us through some pretty rough times.

I beg to differ. I think he's been a lousy president, but it's good to see him at least making an effort to change the tone of the debate. I don't think when the history books are all said and done with him, he'll be rated anywhere near a "great" president. Somewhere in the middle of the pack, at best.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 29):
The United States wouldn't publicly announce bombing Syria either because it wouldn't want it publicly known.

ROTFL. Like Syria would keep quiet about it.  sarcastic  They would jump at the chance to charge and prove the U.S. bombed a non-combatant. It would be like when Nixon invaded Laos during Vietnam.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 30):
Now from what I have come to understand that the US and Iraqi govmnts are currently in negotiations about permanent bases I think three being set up. One in the south, one in the greater baghdad area and one in the north. This was on one of the mainstream media channels, forgive me I dont remember which one. But I think long term bases in Iraq are a given.

I actually hope you're right, but I doubt if the conditions on the ground will allow it. And I don't think, nor do I believe the President thought, that those bases would be worth going to war over.

Been nice talking to you...see you in the morning...  box 
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Bush's Speech

Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
They would jump at the chance to charge and prove the U.S. bombed a non-combatant.

I don't think you have a good handle on the Syria that's in the world today, then. They've been getting pressure from every angle because of their current practices of providing safe refuge for terrorist activities and their current economic situation. Other Arab countries have been pressing them to change their position, but to no avail. There are several nations in this world who would love the chance to jump on Syria and any public acknowledgment of holding WMD's would ruin them.

Knowing that area of the world as I do, Syria would not take the risk to speak up about any bombing of targets with those weapons in them, even if it meant throwing the  redflag  on the U.S. The consequences for them would far outweigh the benefits.
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