exarmywarrant
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Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:04 am

I almost fell out of my chair last night while watching the NBC Evening News with Brian Williams. They ran a long piece about how upbeat most of the Iraqis are, about how 60% of them want us to stay there until the country is stabilized, about how business is booming, schools are running, etc. They interviewed an Iraqi woman who said the US was not an oppressor, that we had freed them.

Of course, when I picked up the LA Times this morning, I got just the opposite view...the same old negativity.

But what I found very interesting in the NBC report was a statement by Brian William. He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

I sure miss the old war correspondents that went where they needed to go to get the truth.

Ernie Pyle, where are you when we need you...
 
satx
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
But what I found very interesting in the NBC report was a statement by Brian William. He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

According to a BBC report, after talking about how up-beat all the Iraqis were, the reporter explained that he was unable to go around talking to actual Iraqis because it was now much more dangerous to walk around than during Saddam's rule or during the early stages of the resistance. That sounds a little odd to me. It's so much better now, except that you can't even walk down the street without being attacked or kidnapped. The news coming out of Iraq appears to all be second or third-hand bullshit, and that includes both the positive and negative stories. However, I'm tempted to assume that if it's so bad that not even the journalists can get access then conditions must not be that good at this point.
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 1):
However, I'm tempted to assume that if it's so bad that not even the journalists can get access then conditions must not be that good at this point.

I recognize the incongruity of saying good things about a place you can't travel in.

I think one problem is that the reporters won't (or can't) get out of Baghdad. The vast majority of the violence is in two or three hot spots, a small part of a very large country.

Also, there is this analogy: there are parts of Los Angeles I don't like to go to, not because everyone there is living a miserable life, but because there are a few people there who would wish me ill just because of the color of my skin. I imagine a reporter in Iraq might have the same feelings...
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:31 am

SATX - read this thread . . . . good thread on many points.
Some Good News Coming Out Of Iraqi BBC Poll (by WhiteHatter Dec 12 2005 in Non Aviation)

Here are more reflections on the same poll:
ABC Poll: Iraqi People Optimistic (by KC135R Dec 13 2005 in Non Aviation)

I see SATX, you still are among those that wear the blinders and have a closed mind . . .

Do you continue to maintain there is nothing positive occuring there? Can you explain away in your oh so negative outlook the very high turnout of voters in the Iraqi elections? Can you explain away in your negative agenda why there were no serious explosions, bombing, attempted killings, attempted bombings, during the election process? Can you explain away the record number of Sunni's that voted yesterday?

I'll be the first to admit there is still a shit storm there, but I'm also not so damned chided that I can't see the positive side of the sotry either.
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satx
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:39 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I'll be the first to admit there is still a shit storm there, but I'm also not so damned chided that I can't see the positive side of the sotry either.

Was there really any chance of you not seeing it? And quit talking down to me like I'm your kid. I'm no more blind to the positive events in Iraq than you are to the negative events in our environment. Get off your high-horse for a change.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
And quit talking down to me like I'm your kid.

If the boot fits . . . .

Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
I'm no more blind to the positive events in Iraq than you are to the negative events in our environment.

Well, then common ground. I know the environment is extremely important and you actually see positive things in Iraq.  faint 

You better grab ahold of something FAST, I think the world might stop spinning on that note. Wow!
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slider
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
He said that the reason they have not been reporting the good news about Iraq is that "travel is still too dangerous"!

What a load of horseshit!
 
satx
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Well, then common ground. I know the environment is extremely important and you actually see positive things in Iraq.

I see positive signs in Iraq. However...

1. I also know that such large-scale conflicts are rarely resolved so quickly. Just look at Israel and Palestine, Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, Indonesia, and much of Africa. Such divisions run deep, and it will take more than a few elections and photo opportunities to change that.

2. Even if Iraq eventually becomes the sound democracy that's hoped for, and that's by no means guaranteed, we still caused roughly 30,000 deaths for a lie. The fact that our administration and some of the domestic media keeps trying to focus on the silver lining doesn't impress me very much.

3. Only extremely negative poll numbers seem to have gotten us anything resembling a modicum of truth and honesty out of this administration. Hopefully the poll numbers will remain low enough for Bush to give up on bullshitting us for the rest of his term. The opaque barrier he put between his own citizens and the truth is a real low point in the history of the United States.
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
Even if Iraq eventually becomes the sound democracy that's hoped for, and that's by no means guaranteed, we still caused roughly 30,000 deaths for a lie.

Fess up...are you really Ted Kennedy??

 Wink
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
1.

Quite agree. I don't have any fantasies that this will all be over in a year, or in ten. I've said in the past - many times - the US/UK will likely maintain troops there- of some strength or another - for a decade. And it will take much longer to build the Iraqi military and police into a viable stand alone force. I have no illusions otherwise. Some might, and if that's the case they are blind and ignorant.

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
2.



Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
lie

Lie= redflag  Prove it.

That said: Focusing on the positives while continuing to report on everything, can't hurt to give the REAL picture instead of the usual  redflag  negative "bad news is all that sells" picture.

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
3.

I'm quite glad PotUS has made the speeches he's made lately. I wondered how long he could go without at least acknowledging the intel was grossly inaccurate.


With that - I'm off to the airport.
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casinterest
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:01 am

Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.
Yesterday he talked to some soldiers who were pissed about the lack of coverage of the positives in Iraq.

One of the other CNN correspondants had a great and uplifting democratic liberal campainging person story that went great until the statement, if I did this in the Sunni controlled areas I'd be dead. So basically same old same old.
The 60% of Shihites loves us, the minorities hate us.....
But at least they still hate each other too  Smile

This country is as stable as gasoline near a bonfire.

I wish them luch ,but they want to hurt each other just as bad as they want to hurt us over there.
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:23 am

I wish the leftists who keep demanding the "truth" from the administration would be as demanding of the media for the truth about the situation on the ground over there.
 
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.
Yesterday he talked to some soldiers who were pissed about the lack of coverage of the positives in Iraq.

Well, that only took Cooper a few years to get around to doing. Good to see the bandwagon jumpers from the media.
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 11):
I wish the leftists who keep demanding the "truth" from the administration would be as demanding of the media for the truth about the situation on the ground over there.

 checkmark  yes 

I agree completely.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
Well, that only took Cooper a few years to get around to doing.

 checkmark  yes 

Again, I agree. He's good at seeing the new trend emerging and is ready to jump on it. Too bad that most of this stuff was happening right after we took Saddam out of power.
Crye me a river
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
Anderson Cooper is running some good articles from Iraq on CNN.



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 10):
This country is as stable as gasoline near a bonfire.

Probably about as stable as...oh, I don't know...Germany after WWII? Japan after Hiroshima??

Why can't anyone understand how hard this is? It ain't a 30-minute sitcom...
 
dan-air
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 14):
Why can't anyone understand how hard this is? It ain't a 30-minute sitcom...

"30 minute Sitcom" would be a fairly accurate portrayal of what Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were saying 3 years ago - part of their effort to get us into war.

Were they lying or merely incompetent? Ask those members of the administration to tell you the "truth".
 
cfalk
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
I sure miss the old war correspondents that went where they needed to go to get the truth.

Yep. Where are the Robert Capa's of the journalistic world today?

For those who don't know who Robert Capa was, he was a journalist/photographer who went through the Spanish Civil War and WWII on the front lines. Here's a famous shot of his, taken when he came off one of the very first landing craft to hit Omaha Beach on D-Day.



Here's a little history on the guy.

http://www.skylighters.org/photos/robertcapa.html
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exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 15):
30 minute Sitcom" would be a fairly accurate portrayal of what Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were saying 3 years ago - part of their effort to get us into war.

Were they lying or merely incompetent? Ask those members of the administration to tell you the "truth".

OK, lets see...

Your house is on fire. You call the fire department and the chief shows up and says "no problem, we can have this fire out in ten minutes".

Then, due to unforseen problems (maybe you've got a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the basement) it ends up a bigger fire than he thought and it takes a couple of hours to get it out.

Was he lying? Was he incompetent? But more important...if he was either, should he not have put out the fire?
 
dan-air
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 17):
Your house is on fire. You call the fire department and the chief shows up and says "no problem, we can have this fire out in ten minutes".

Then, due to unforseen problems (maybe you've got a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the basement) it ends up a bigger fire than he thought and it takes a couple of hours to get it out.

Was he lying? Was he incompetent? But more important...if he was either, should he not have put out the fire?

Great anecdote.

Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was. You show up and spray water all throughout the house until it's pretty much uninhabitable. You don't understand why the homeowner is pissed, but you offer to build him a new one at no cost to him, but at a price 3-4 times the going rate for new homes.

You've never built a home before, and during construction, some neighborhood kids use you for target practise. The price of building the home rises exponentially.

All the while you mutter to yourself that the house might have been on fire, or was about to burst into flames, or whoever told you the house was burning got it wrong.

Either way, you're fucked.
 
cfalk
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 18):
Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was.

Yeah, you're right, everything was just hunky-dory in Iraq. The UN was just goofing when they passed all those resolutions, and close to 2 million people really didn't starve or get tortured to death.
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dan-air
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 19):
Yeah, you're right, everything was just hunky-dory in Iraq. The UN was just goofing when they passed all those resolutions, and close to 2 million people really didn't starve or get tortured to death.

You didn't mention either of the primary reasons we were told made it absolutely necessary to invade Iraq right now. Did you forget what those reasons were?  sarcastic 
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 18):
Except the house wasn't on fire, but you insisted it was.

I don't think there is any question there was a fire.

Bill Clinton said there was a fire.
John Kerry said there was a fire.
The UN said there was a fire.
Hillary Clinton said there was a fire.
John McCain said there was a fire.

The only people that said there was no fire were Iraq's business partners the French and the Germans.

So there was no question there was a fire. The only question there has ever been was how bad the fire was, and what needed to be done to fight it.

We can argue all day (and have) over whether a different course of action would have been better, but it's all conjecture. We're here now. Let's deal with that.
 
Klaus
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 14):
Probably about as stable as...oh, I don't know...Germany after WWII? Japan after Hiroshima??

No, not even close. There was nothing even remotely approaching the chaos in Iraq in either of both countries back then, despite much larger devastation.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
The only people that said there was no fire were Iraq's business partners the French and the Germans.

...and the vast majorities in the populations of pretty much every country on the planet except the USA and Poland (please note the absence of the populations of Britain, Spain and Italy here!).

...and - which makes it all the worse - they turned out to be right; There was indeed no fire.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
So there was no question there was a fire.

No, there is no question that there was no fire. Only a political necessity for some politicians and their apologists to claim there was one.

The only reason why this is still such a big topic is that you and your leaders want to reserve the right to storm any other home you may want to in the future, again with complete disregard whether there may be a fire or not.

The threat of a repetition of the whole disaster is what makes the lack of insight so dangerous.
 
dan-air
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
We're here now. Let's deal with that.

Agreed. Hopefully this election will spur the Iraqis to take the reins and handle their own security, but their performance thus far makes me sceptical.

Any comparison to Germany and Japan is bogus: those countries did not have a two-thousand-year-old three-way religion-based tug-of-war to struggle with after liberation. Democracy ain't gonna happen there; the best we can hope for is an Islamic state that does not ally itself too closely with Iran.
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 23):
Any comparison to Germany and Japan is bogus: those countries did not have a two-thousand-year-old three-way religion-based tug-of-war to struggle with after liberation. Democracy ain't gonna happen there; the best we can hope for is an Islamic state that does not ally itself too closely with Iran.

My comparison to Germany and Japan was not meant to imply everything is the same. But I lived in Japan not too long after WWII and if our media today had covered that country then they might very well have predicted American occupation for decades...the economy was in shambles, unemployment was rampant, their infrasutructure was in ruins (sound familiar?). But look at what happened.

Germany at the same time was struggling also. But we stood by them and they pulled it off.
 
dan-air
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 24):
My comparison to Germany and Japan was not meant to imply everything is the same. But I lived in Japan not too long after WWII and if our media today had covered that country then they might very well have predicted American occupation for decades...the economy was in shambles, unemployment was rampant, their infrasutructure was in ruins (sound familiar?). But look at what happened.

Germany at the same time was struggling also. But we stood by them and they pulled it off.

Germany and Japan did not have a well-armed and funded insurgency, or any competing religous dogma to impede progress. Even so, it took a long time for those countries to become functioning democracies.

If this country has the stomach for it, we'll be there for a long time - but realistically there will be a tipping point when we say "enough - screw it", declare "victory" on our terms, and pull out. Won't happen while Bush is president cos that would mean losing face - and that's his biggest nightmare. Whoever wins in '08 will have a might big mess to sort out.

You and I, meanwhile, will be paying for it all through higher interest rates as the nation is gradually forced to service its debt to our new owners - China and Japan.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 14):
Probably about as stable as...oh, I don't know...Germany after WWII? Japan after Hiroshima??

Why can't anyone understand how hard this is? It ain't a 30-minute sitcom...

I think I would draw the comparison as Germany after World War 1.

This country is tearing itself apart at the seams , and has factions within ready to rip it. If this had been the straight out takeout of a dictator/leader in North Korea or Cuba, I think things would be smoother.

Unfortunately Iraq has deep political and religious divisions that also fester with a lot of hate.
By all means I want them to make it and be democratic, but the bad side is that when the US withdraws they are going to have a lot of issues to contend with and not all of them domestic(see Iran).
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Banco
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 21):
The only people that said there was no fire were Iraq's business partners the French and the Germans.

...and the vast majorities in the populations of pretty much every country on the planet except the USA and Poland (please note the absence of the populations of Britain, Spain and Italy here!).

Given subsequent events, it doesn't necessarily make much difference, but with regard to the UK, this statement is incorrect.

In the run-up to, and after the outbreak of war, virtually all opinion polls showed the UK population in favour of military action in Iraq, not against, and most certainly not a "vast majority" against. The majority in favour of action fell substantially given the lack of a second UN resolution, but that self-same majority was still there.

As in the US, subsequent polls have shown a marked fall off in support as the wisdom of action came into question, but to say that a "vast majority" were against is a fundamental mis-representation, given the opposite being rather closer to reality.

I suspect you were misled by the large and vocal protests in London.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 23):
Agreed. Hopefully this election will spur the Iraqis to take the reins and handle their own security, but their performance thus far makes me sceptical.

Agree . . .

What I have yet to figure out - other than hypothesis - is why the Iraqi forces - both the mliitary and police - haven't taken a more active role in their own security.

Is it because the Iraqi forces are still afraid of retribution against their families?

Is it because they don't feel they've been adequately trained?

Is it because the US/UK forces there aren't letting them?

Regardless, it's time they take the reins and begin seriously policing their own back yard.
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Banco
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 28):
What I have yet to figure out - other than hypothesis - is why the Iraqi forces - both the mliitary and police - haven't taken a more active role in their own security.

I suspect that most people agree now that disbanding the Iraqi army in the wake of the war was an error, even given the problems that would have occurred weding out Saddam loyalists. They're having to build up security forces from scratch.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 28):
Is it because the Iraqi forces are still afraid of retribution against their families?

I suspect partly so. Though given the lack of employment in the country, there seem to plenty still willing to take the risk.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 28):
Is it because they don't feel they've been adequately trained?

Not through want of trying, I'm sure. It comes back to the first point really.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 28):
Is it because the US/UK forces there aren't letting them?

This I would doubt. Regardless of perspective as to the rights and wrongs of going in, I don't doubt that all in both the US and UK would like toleave as soon as is practicable. It's unlikely they're dragging their feet.

But, like with yourself, this is supposition.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:58 am

I tend to think that it is a combination of all points I raised in reply 28.

I still have reservations about disbanding the Iraqi Army during the initial invasion, but I'm of the opinion that it was still the proper course of action. It is a double edged sword however in that rebuilding a force from scratch is not something to be done in a few months time.

I do wonder how many of the current armed forces were in the previous force? And given that, one would suspect that with previously trained military forces (albeit not trained in US/UK doctrine or tactics) why they have not taken more of a lead role in their country.

Reports are that the Iraqi military and police did take the lead on the security at the polls in the recent election, but that is such a small part of policing the entire country.

The Iraqi Forces have got to step up and take charge . . . soon.

I would hope there come a time - very soon - where the US/UK governments will simply tell the Iraqi government that "we are departing on date XYZ. So your forces better have their collective crap in one bag, cause we're not going to be here" . . . after a certain date and in sufficient numbers to do your job.

Given this last election was meant to elect a 'permanent' government, maybe that's what we (US/UK) were waiting for.

After the votes are tabulated and the government is seated, it's time to begin in ernest withdrawals of our forces off the front lines and let the Iraqis beging to take charge . . .
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Banco
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 30):
I would hope there come a time - very soon - where the US/UK governments will simply tell the Iraqi government that "we are departing on date XYZ. So your forces better have their collective crap in one bag, cause we're not going to be here" . . . after a certain date and in sufficient numbers to do your job.

They're reluctant to do that, because whenever an occupying force sets a timetable publicly, the number of attacks on them tends to rocket.

It's more likely that numbers will just dwindle as the Iraqis take over, or that the Iraqi government tells them to start to withdraw.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 31):
They're reluctant to do that, because whenever an occupying force sets a timetable publicly, the number of attacks on them tends to rocket.

I'm reluctant to do that as well . . . I'm certainly against a set in stone timetable. Certainly it can't be within the next 12 months. And as I've said before, we'll still have forces there into the next decade in some fashion. But we need to tell the Iraqi gov't - it's your ball now, we'll watch, we'll help if the real shit hits the fan, but we've done all we can do to prepare you, time for you to begin taking out your own trash.
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Venus6971
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 1):
The news coming out of Iraq appears to all be second or third-hand bullshit, and that includes both the positive and negative stories



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 16):
Yep. Where are the Robert Capa's of the journalistic world today?



Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
Ernie Pyle, where are you when we need you...

here is the guy you need to read, he is a independent imbed journalist who doesn't stay in the green zone
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 23):
Any comparison to Germany and Japan is bogus: those countries did not have a two-thousand-year-old three-way religion-based tug-of-war to struggle with after liberation. Democracy ain't gonna happen there; the best we can hope for is an Islamic state that does not ally itself too closely with Iran.

WRONG! The comparison to Japan is entirely valid in the context you frame it...

Japan was an Imperial nation, one with an Emperor, not to mention a shogunate system that had lasted centuries upon centuries! People unabashedly stated in the reconstruction following WWII that Japanese culture was incompatible with democratic ideals. They said the same thing that the pundits are saying right now about the Iraqi people. There are many parallels in fact between Japan and Iraq in that regard and in the context of subservient peoples who had no experience with self-government.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Dan, you aren't observing the facts of even the most recent century of human history and the media is on the wrong side of it as well. No wonder there is a bias--it's not only one of agenda but borne of total ignorance! The mainstream media outlets and most of the reporters haven't the slightest inkling about history, which is a damn shame.
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 34):
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Dan, you aren't observing the facts of even the most recent century of human history and the media is on the wrong side of it as well. No wonder there is a bias--it's not only one of agenda but borne of total ignorance! The mainstream media outlets and most of the reporters haven't the slightest inkling about history, which is a damn shame.

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dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 34):
Dan, you aren't observing the facts of even the most recent century of human history and the media is on the wrong side of it as well. No wonder there is a bias--it's not only one of agenda but borne of total ignorance! The mainstream media outlets and most of the reporters haven't the slightest inkling about history, which is a damn shame.

Japan had a 2000-year history of ethnic & religious strife going into WWII? They mounted a significant insurgency against the US army of occupation following the end of hostilities?

Don't think so. Fact is, we've never tried anything like Iraq. There were plenty of middle-east experts warning Bushco of the problems they would face post-invasion, and expectations of establishing western-style democracy being unrealistic. They didn't listen. F*ck, Bush didn't even to his own Father who, having dramatically more foreign plicy experience than his son, knew what an occupation would entail.

The moral of the story: ths US can never afford a president who has to learn "on the job".

[Edited 2005-12-16 23:02:12]
 
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fxramper
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RE: Good News About Iraq...on NBC?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I see SATX, you still are among those that wear the blinders and have a closed mind . . .

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