sprout5199
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Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:26 pm

Just a question. And for those who want to bitch about "America". Go around the world and ask about America, The answer will be about the U.S.A. For those of you in South America, Sorry about that but life's tough. BTW I would go to S. America for vacation more then anywhere else.(well Halifax was GREAT when I went there)

Dan in Jupiter
 
theCoz
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Thread starter):
Halifax was GREAT when I went there

Yes, Halifax is a very nice place. I've spent several cumulative years there. I almost consider it home.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:29 pm

I'm missing the point of this thread...

Quoting Sprout5199 (Thread starter):
Just a question

There is no question asked in your post
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:34 pm

HAHAHA, I just responded in the Mexican thread that perhaps a reason the US is disliked is because it is a duplitious country, and that this is why there are so many 'why do people dislike the USA', threads...

Like I just responded in a prior thread, I think a big reason is because the US is duplitious.

Look how Americans get mad about Mexico and how they are bashing the USA for the way they are treating Mexican migrants, yet Mexico treats Central American migrants at least just as bad (which is true). Look how Americans get mad about France and their double talk in several bilateral issues. It is frustrating...

That is how many other people in other countries see the US, as duplitious. They say they are for democracy but crop up dictatorships like Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, because it is in US interests. The US says they are for free trade but do not wish free trade for agriculture and place protectionist barriers against foreign steel. They say that other countries should not have nukes yet the US keeps developing new types of nuclear weapons. The US blasts other countries for their human rights abuses yet the death penalty is still on and even minors are executed. The issue about US military treatment of terrorists is another issue also.

Basically, I think a major objection around the world is that the United States has no moral ground to be dictating or judging other nations.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:40 pm

Shit, here we go again.

America isn't hated. Some Americans and some American policies are hated. Some people just don't like it. Virtually everyone on this board that either despises an American or two or despises American foreign policies likes America.

Some of course don't, but that's the norm.

So tell me . . .

The point of this thread?

Another thread that says: It's a free for all beat the shit out the USA thread.



Oh, and this question duplicates a thread no two months old. Why waste your time.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
Look how Americans get mad about Mexico and how they are bashing the USA for the way they are treating Mexican migrants, yet Mexico treats Central American migrants at least just as bad (which is true). Look how Americans get mad about France and their double talk in several bilateral issues.

This only goes to show that all countries have problems and are hypocritical in many respects. It has nothing to do with "no moral ground". That statement may be true, but it would be equally true in regards to all countries.
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Newark777
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Thread starter):
Just a question

You must not have finished, since you never answered the question. You must be smoking the same stuff Matt D did.

Harry
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 5):
This only goes to show that all countries have problems and are hypocritical in many respects. It has nothing to do with "no moral ground". That statement may be true, but it would be equally true in regards to all countries

No of course all countries spin things to suit their interests, I didn't mean to say the US was particularly hypocritical. The difference is that it is the US government that constantly comes out with 'reports' about how other countries are behaving and should behave, which I think is a big reason the rest of the world gets irritated.

We know that if France, or Russia, or even the UK came with reports blasting the US on human rights, or pollution, or the economy, many Americans would say 'who are they to judge, their economies are a mess.' And Americans have reacted like that in the past. It is the same condition the other way around.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 7):
We know that if France, or Russia, or even the UK came with reports blasting the US on human rights, or pollution, or the economy, many Americans would say 'who are they to judge, their economies are a mess.' And Americans have reacted like that in the past. It is the same condition the other way around.

I think that your generalisations are off base. France and Russia have openly condemed the Iraq torture, economic inbalances, and a bunch of other stuff. Perhaps, you have selective hearing and reading habits?
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usnseallt82
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
Basically, I think a major objection around the world is that the United States has no moral ground to be dictating or judging other nations.

I don't think Argentina has any room to be judging the United States over morality.  no 
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tbar220
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:59 pm

Well we can start with Canada, who we owe $5 billion, they might not like us for that.

We can talk about Mexico and how they dislike us ther because of NAFTA.

We can go further south and talk about the dislike that Chavez is fermenting in Venezuela.

Going across the pond, many Europeans don't like us because of the war in Iraq.

In the middle east its the same deal, war in Iraq, troops on their soil, etc. etc.

But most of all, I see this dislike because we say one thing but do another. As a government, we reek of hypocrisy.

Just a few examples:
- If we're supposed to be the shining beacon of freedom and democracy, if we're supposed to be spreading these ideals in Iraq, why are we torturing? Why is there scandal at Abu Gharaib? Guantanamo Bay? Why did Bush Co. push so hard for torture? Say one thing, do another.
- Free trade, we pretty much screwed Canada over royally and we still owe them five billion dollars. We support free trade, except when its against our best interests? Say one thing, do another.
- We want to support human rights and push for freedoms, and yet we are the only western nation to still have the death penalty. We say we are in Iraq to save them from Sadaam, but we're not doing anything in Darfur. Huh? If we're going to be the world's policeman, why Iraq and not Darfur? Why Iraq and not Iran or N. Korea, where the threat seems more ominous?

There's more, but over the last couple of decades, we "stand" for some great ideal, but we don't behave as if we do. We don't walk to the talk.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 8):
think that your generalisations are off base. France and Russia have openly condemed the Iraq torture, economic inbalances, and a bunch of other stuff. Perhaps, you have selective hearing and reading habits?

And how have many Americans reacted to such comments? By saying that France has no grounds to tell the US anything about economic policy given their sluggish growth and unemployment (Wall Street Journal). Or by saying Russia is strife with human rights abuses so who are they to tell the US anything about human rights. And both sentiments have strong basis in fact. It's not like Americans can't rightfully say to France or Russia 'who are you to tell us, look at your own countries'.

If we are trying to find the root cause of the 'dislike' of the US or US government I really think it comes down to that basic human emotion that one shoudn't throw stones from a glass house.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:05 pm

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 9):
I don't think Argentina has any room to be judging the United States over morality

Though your response is insulting to say the least, particularly since you give no evidence to support such ridiculous claim, nowhere in this thread were we discussing Argentina judging the US. Thumbs down to you.
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sprout5199
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
Basically, I think a major objection around the world is that the United States has no moral ground to be dictating or judging other nations.

But I think Different. We have every right to do that. WHY you ask? Because we have been there done that and have the t-shirt. We have had slavery, gender inequality, and racism, but we have over came that. we have had religious hatred, native killing, and more. But if you ask ANYONE in the US if they would rather live anywhere else in the world, they would say NO. WHY? Because the US is the land of hope. And that is why no matter how strong China, India, or anyone else gets, the U.S.of A. will always be looked apon as the model for other countries. We may not be the Best but condsidering the options, dont bet against US.

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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 11):
If we are trying to find the root cause of the 'dislike' of the US or US government I really think it comes down to that basic human emotion that one shoudn't throw stones from a glass house.

But I have heard the French, German, and Russian governments complain. Perhaps you are only listening to anti-US media in Argentinia. I understand, I may be incorrect, that there is a very strong sentiment there. Isn't this the same kind of complaining that your are complaining about. Smile Its pretty funny but all I hear is people complaining.

Albert Camus called it the "judge-penitent". Judging others compromises your own integrity.
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L-188
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Thread starter):
Why Is America Hated?

The world doesn't hate America.

They just hate crap-chester.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 13):
But I think Different. We have every right to do that. WHY you ask? Because we have been there done that and have the t-shirt. We have had slavery, gender inequality, and racism, but we have over came that. we have had religious hatred, native killing, and more. But if you ask ANYONE in the US if they would rather live anywhere else in the world, they would say NO. WHY? Because the US is the land of hope. And that is why no matter how strong China, India, or anyone else gets, the U.S.of A. will always be looked apon as the model for other countries. We may not be the Best but condsidering the options, dont bet against US.

Been there done that is not a valid reason whatsoever. Many Americans get upset when countries without the death penalty tell the US to abolish it... Couldn't that be considered a 'been there done that' situation. Or take gay rights. Maybe you can see that, to Europe and other countries, the US hasn't been there or done that. But most Americans would tell those countries to butt out. It's the same when it comes to slavery, gender equality, in other places around the world. People in those regions want the US to butt out.

I'm sure most Americans would not want to live anywhere else because economically speaking there really aren't many other choices in terms of living standards.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 13):
But I have heard the French, German, and Russian governments complain. Perhaps you are only listening to anti-US media in Argentinia. I understand, I may be incorrect, that there is a very strong sentiment there. Isn't this the same kind of complaining that your are complaining about. Its pretty funny but all I hear is people complaining.

No you are not. I know that other countries, specially in Europe, complain. Where did I say they didn't?? In fact I've said that in terms of economic policy, the Europeans really can't tell the United States much. Or Russia when it comes to human rights. I did say that.
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usnseallt82
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
Though your response is insulting to say the least, particularly since you give no evidence to support such ridiculous claim, nowhere in this thread were we discussing Argentina judging the US.

No, but you have made claims that the U.S. has no moral ground to judge other nations. I simply pointed out that Argentina doesn't have a very pleasant track record in the past when it comes to morality. (hint: human rights)

Don't get your panties in a wad. You're just calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot, and someone called you out on it.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 17):
No you are not. I know that other countries, specially in Europe, complain. Where did I say they didn't??



Quoting Derico (Reply 7):
We know that if France, or Russia, or even the UK came with reports blasting the US on human rights, or pollution, or the economy, many Americans would say 'who are they to judge, their economies are a mess.'

Because of the word if, I assumed that you were implying that they haven't. However, if you were presenting it in a hypothetical manner, than I would agree with you. Smile
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
No, but you have made claims that the U.S. has no moral ground to judge other nations. I simply pointed out that Argentina doesn't have a very pleasant track record in the past when it comes to morality. (hint: human rights)

Don't get your panties in a wad. You're just calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot, and someone called you out on it

And we can reverse your quote the other way around and apply it to you, Mr Pot... You see this is the point I'm trying to make!

The question was 'why do people hate the USA', which admittedly is not a well phrased question, certainly 'people' don't hate the USA in the meaning of that word at all, and it's not like many people don't like the USA either.

I think that if there is a reason, it can be traced to your reaction Unseallt: you did not appreciate my seemingly judgemental comment on the US (and BTW, I'm not speaking on behalf of Argentina here, I'm speaking in behalf of Derico). It's the same reaction many people around the world have when Americans or the US make comments on their societies.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 19):
Because of the word if, I assumed that you were implying that they haven't. However, if you were presenting it in a hypothetical manner, than I would agree with you.

Yes, that is exactly how I was presenting it! I didn't mean it had never happened.

[Edited 2005-12-22 06:29:37]
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:29 pm

I think part of it is because America is the most powerful nation right now. People tend to have a chip on their shoulder with anything that's the "the biggest"

Listen to how many people bitch about McDonalds, but who's drive thru is the busiest?

Am I making sense here? lol

Kris
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
Well we can start with Canada, who we owe $5 billion, they might not like us for that.

And no offense to my Canadian Friends . we've covered their asses for decades, they need to STFU unless they'd like to field their own REAL Army and Navy.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
We can talk about Mexico and how they dislike us ther because of NAFTA.

Mexico dislikes US because of NAFTA - we ought to dislike ourselves because of NAFTA! The American worker lost on that deal - BIG. Just as did the American truck driver.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
We can go further south and talk about the dislike that Chavez is fermenting in Venezuela.

Fascist Asshole . . . . although he runs his country and that's his business, we put BILLIONS of US$$$$ into that economy. Let him piss of the oil companies and they leave - see what kind of desert Venezuela becomes.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
Going across the pond, many Europeans don't like us because of the war in Iraq.

If that is their only argument it's pretty gawddamn weak. Half of Europe we bailed out, the other half we rebuilt.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
In the middle east its the same deal, war in Iraq, troops on their soil, etc. etc.

But it's okay for them to blow up our buildings, kill our people, ridiculous.
Now - the Middle East is a different culture, I'll grant you . . . but it doesn't excuse the extremist assholes that the Middle Eastern government KNEW existed and did nothing about and in fact fostered their existence. Fuck em.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
why are we torturing?

Not a wide spread issue, and those that have been caught have been prosecuted . . .you hold no water here . . . .it's a bullshit retort.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
We want to support human rights and push for freedoms, and yet we are the only western nation to still have the death penalty.

Yet another bullshit retort. The Germans let hijacking murdering terrorists out of jail after 19 years . . . . they ought to fry his sorry ass in a grotesque and ugly manner.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 10):
We don't walk to the talk.

And yest a third bullshit retort. . . not only do we walk the walk, we can talk the talk . . . . better than anyone else.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 21):
I think part of it is because America is the most powerful nation right now. People tend to have a chip on their shoulder with anything that's the "the biggest"

Yup! Big grin
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AeroWesty
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:30 pm

If the US is so widely hated, why do so many people want to come here?
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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24):
If the US is so widely hated, why do so many people want to come here?

Krispy Kreme

..crap, I spelled it Kream at first.

[Edited 2005-12-22 06:39:02]
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luisde8cd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
Though your response is insulting to say the least, particularly since you give no evidence to support such ridiculous claim, nowhere in this thread were we discussing Argentina judging the US.

No, but you have made claims that the U.S. has no moral ground to judge other nations. I simply pointed out that Argentina doesn't have a very pleasant track record in the past when it comes to morality. (hint: human rights)

Don't get your panties in a wad. You're just calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot, and someone called you out on it

Hmmm I think it is pretty obvious that the US has no moral ground to judge other nations. Now if you feel offended by that, try giving arguments to convice us why we are wrong, instead of just saying that Argentina can't judge the US. Anyone can make an opinion regarding the USA, just as the USA does with every nation it pleases.

Also by the way, Argentina's human rights record is partly because of the US support for right wing dictatorships in S. America during the Cold War.

Nonetheless, despite all the shit about USA's foreign policy, I believe that there's no better nation/power to serve as an example for democracy and freedom for the rest of the world. What the USA has acomplished will be praised in History books in the future... the USA still has the same constitution from the 18th century and there has never been a coup d'etat. Simply amazing...



Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis
 
Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:41 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 26):
Hmmm I think it is pretty obvious that the US has no moral ground to judge other nations. Now if you feel offended by that, try giving arguments to convice us why we are wrong, instead of just saying that Argentina can't judge the US. Anyone can make an opinion regarding the USA, just as the USA does with every nation it pleases.

But Luis, I'm not talking on behalf of any country! See that's why I think they should get rid of those silly little flags...   

Though the point I'm trying to make is exactly what you said, that anyone can have opinions on anyone. I do think that governments should not be in the business of judging other nations.

BTW, US support of the Argentine junta is slowly proving to be extremely exaggerated. The involvement was rather minimal, and nothing compared to what happened in Chile, Central America, etc.

[Edited 2005-12-22 06:43:07]
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tbar220
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Mexico dislikes US because of NAFTA - we ought to dislike ourselves because of NAFTA! The American worker lost on that deal - BIG. Just as did the American truck driver.

So why does the U.S. government push so hard for deals like NAFTA and CAFTA if it hurts workers in our country as well as countries like Mexico? Me'thinks its to line the pockets of the few.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Not a wide spread issue, and those that have been caught have been prosecuted . . .you hold no water here . . . .it's a bullshit retort.

Not a bullshit retort. The people doing it may have been prosecuted, but what about the higher ups? What about Rumsfelds who ordered this sort of treatment? Lets not forget that Alberto Gonzales supports torture. Cheney supports torture. Bush only supported the McCain agreement when he had no other choice. The people who carried out the torture may have been prosecuted, but the whole world sees the people in our government's highest positions advocating it! What does that say?

You can't on one hand say its ok for the soldiers to take the fall for everything and on the other hand let their commanders get away with the orders. You've said before you believe its not fair that the soldiers get it the worst when they're the ones carrying out orders, so why does Rumsfeld still have a job? Why is Gonzales our attorney general? And so on, and so on...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Yet another bullshit retort. The Germans let hijacking murdering terrorists out of jail after 19 years . . . . they ought to fry his sorry ass in a grotesque and ugly manner.

Big man, you can use the words "bullshit retort". Instead of using catch phrases, why don't you argue my point. This is my opinion, I believe that we should not have the death penalty. This may be an argument for another thread, but the point I'm making here is this. Of all the western democracies, we are the only one who still has the death penatly, correct? Can you deny this?

Now whether or not you support the death penalty, how do you think it looks to every other Western democratic country when we kill our criminals? How do you think it looks to Iraqis, who we claimed to have gone in and freed in the name of democracy and freedoms, that we still have the death penalty? In context of the question "why is America hated", I think these are valid points, not "bullshit retorts". I'm not debating whether or not we should have it, my point is that having it is a reason others dislike this country.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
And yest a third bullshit retort. . . not only do we walk the walk, we can talk the talk . . . . better than anyone else.

Third times the bullshit charm isn't it. If we're so great at doing what we stand for, and doing what we call spreading freedom and democracy, why aren't we helping the people in Darfur, who are systematically being slaughtered? If we claim to be fighting a war on terror, why haven't we captured Bin Laden yet? If we claim to be trying to reshape the middle east, why haven't we put immense pressure on Saudi Arabia? If we're so proud of the elections in Iraq, why can't we have elections in this country without any damn scandal? If we're so proud of the political process we've created in Iraq, why is the political process so fucked up in our own country? etc. etc. etc.

If you really think we "walk the walk" and "talk the talk" better than anyone else, give me some examples of us doing so, even in the last decade.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 27):
hough the point I'm trying to make is exactly what you said, that anyone can have opinions on anyone. I do think that governments should not be in the business of judging other nations.

To some extent, this is true. However, we should have been more critical of Sudan before it got out of control. The same can be said for 30's Germany, Cambodia and other true atrocities. Countries initiating genocides and other truely evil actions need to be criticized and stopped.

There is an element of judging that is righteous, however judging over immigration and economics will always be done with vigour by politicians.
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Derico
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:50 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 29):
To some extent, this is true. However, we should have been more critical of Sudan before it got out of control. The same can be said for 30's Germany, Cambodia and other true atrocities. Countries initiating genocides and other truely evil actions need to be criticized and stopped.

Well, we were talking more about soft issues like social policies, economic policies, etc.

I think if there is a genocide going on somewhere, that is an entirely different animal. I don't think any civilized country would be against the US or anyone else speaking against that, and even if they were they would be setting themselves up for ridicule.

For the most part the contrary takes place, countries rally around egregious situations like that... Unless the whole thing is completely ignored by everyone, which happens all the time when it comes to genocides in Africa.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
Me'thinks its to line the pockets of the few.

Me think you are correct.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
You can't on one hand say its ok for the soldiers to take the fall for everything and on the other hand let their commanders get away with the orders.

You know better, and you know what I've said about it. It was ordered from higher up . . .and I'm sure Dumsfeld is asshole deep in it . . . . they'll get no quarter from me. If the administration ordered it - then they should be hammered as well. I've said it before . . . this is not news. Your original comment however made it sound as thought we have wholeseale torture of our prisoners every where every day. That, my friend, is bullshit.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
This is my opinion, I believe that we should not have the death penalty. This may be an argument for another thread, but the point I'm making here is this. Of

Well - because that death penalty issue HAS been argued - to bloody death - in three or four other threads in this site in recent weeks . . . I felt it neither necessary or time worthy to go search it out and post it for you - or anyone else - yet again. We should have the death penalty, that's my reply. You feel different, fine. Still - the German gov't released an asshole after 19 years and you can bet your ass he's back with his Hezbollah buddies right now.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
Of all the western democracies, we are the only one who still has the death penatly, correct? Can you deny this?

Hell no i don't deny it. I praise it. At least one country has the gut to execute your ass if you get massively stupid and decide to take a life or three or ten or three thousand. No sympathy.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
how do you think it looks to every other Western democratic country when we kill our criminals?

I don't give a shit what other western democracies think when we execute an asshole. . . . that plain enough?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
I'm not debating whether or not we should have it, my point is that having it is a reason others dislike this country.

Understood. I see your point.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
why aren't we helping the people in Darfur,

I don't have your answer. But I have a question? Who IS helping there and are they doing any good??? Please, not the lousy stinking outdated useless UN. Oh for Christ's sake, not them. Who's getting the $$$ being pledged to line their pockets this time . . . that said: Something needs to be done there. Is the US the ONLY country in the world that could intervene? Nooo, then why hasn't anyone else??? Because of the NIMBY syndrome. It doesn't affect them, so fuck it. . . . let 'em kill each other . . . and THEN they have the balls - as do you - to say, "where is the US help here?"

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
If we claim to be trying to reshape the middle east, why haven't we put immense pressure on Saudi Arabia?

Silly question you know the answer to as well as I: We Need Them. It's always that way. I know that. They are not our friends. They use us as we use them. Are you kidding . . . . I'm no fool . . .

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
why is the political process so fucked up in our own country?

Because our population is lazy and too wrapped up in themselves to vote properly to correct it . . . or form a viable, lasting third party to combat it.

Can you just see President TBar right now!  duck 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Arrow
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
And no offense to my Canadian Friends

None taken. Just give us our $5 billion back and we'll STFU.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
tbar220
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:07 pm

ANC,

I think you understand what I was saying about the death penalty, not arguing for or against it.

We may not be the only ones who can help in Darfur, but I believe we are best capable of helping. And how do people in Africa see this? How do the people suffering see this? "They are helping those in Iraq! They jumped so fast to help them, why won't they help us those bastards?" And thus we have festering dislike and hatred. Btw, I still think we should be helping the people in Darfur, and I could go on and on about that, so I'll save my breath.

The points I raised were in the context of the question asked. I'm not trying to discuss why we HAVE our policies, just WHY our policies cause this hatred. We could start dozens of threads about the former.
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PPVRA
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:13 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
Of all the western democracies, we are the only one who still has the death penatly, correct? Can you deny this?

Doesn't Trinidad and Tobago have it also?

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 33):

I think you understand what I was saying about the death penalty, not arguing for or against it.

 checkmark 

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 33):
We may not be the only ones who can help in Darfur, but I believe we are best capable of helping.

I argee . . . and it always seems so . . . every time the shit hits the fan someone somewhere says, "Where's the US?" And I suppose rightfully so . . . we are essentially the only superpower with the guy to get things done . . . however . . . we're doing so at the expense of our own infrastructure, children, etc. While Feel terribly for Darfur, I wonder . . . . is there no one else on this whole damn planet that couldn't go in there, kick the rebel ass, help those people get some food, water, and restart their lives? Or is it that everyone is just waiting on the US and our tax dollars to bail out yet another country?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 33):
Btw, I still think we should be helping the people in Darfur, and I could go on and on about that, so I'll save my breath.

Nope, I agree . . . they need help. I don't agree we are the only ones that have the ability to help them . . . it's just that world has become so US reliant . . . it will again fall to us to deal with. Arrogant sounding I know - but quite true. Other countries help in other places . . . . but nothing on the monetary or personnel magnitude of the US.

SO, what'ya day: Pres TBar? LOL

I'm off, 0400 wake up, back to work tomorrow.
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tbar220
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
I wonder . . . . is there no one else on this whole damn planet that couldn't go in there, kick the rebel ass, help those people get some food, water, and restart their lives?

Because they're all just like us. They're all just looking out for their own asses and won't help people out when they need it, even if it means no gain for themselves.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
SO, what'ya day: Pres TBar? LOL

Ahhh, has a nice ring to it.
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:58 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
But it's okay for them to blow up our buildings, kill our people, ridiculous.
Now - the Middle East is a different culture, I'll grant you . . . but it doesn't excuse the extremist assholes that the Middle Eastern government KNEW existed and did nothing about and in fact fostered their existence

-
# Few people in the world hate the USA, but many dis-agree with US foreign politics and possibly some particular aspects
# "ok for them" ? you mean for THE Arabs ? hardly, only for a "select few"
# "a different culture" in the Middle East ? where ? and why ?
# Arab governments, in particular Morocco Algeria Tunisia Egypt Lebanon Syria Jordan, fought against terrorism and extremism since the early 80ies. And lost scores of law-enforcers and soldiers. And had extradition requests for terrorists who fled to the USA and Western Europe (incl Switzerland) turned down by the dozen. In case of the USA, the "turn" came in fall-01 .
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:04 pm

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 2):
I'm missing the point of this thread...

You're not the only one, buddy.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
America isn't hated

 checkmark 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Some Americans and some American policies are hated.

 checkmark 

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24):
If the US is so widely hated, why do so many people want to come here?

 checkmark 

Exactly. People hate US political policy, not the country itself.

I can understand how frustrated some Americans must feel by this notion that you're all "hated", but it's simply not the case. I for one love the United States - and cannot wait to return for another visit. I love your country, so don't think all of us hate you guys.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
gkirk
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:57 pm

The USA isn't hated.
The US Government and it's policies is hated by many people around the world however.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:34 pm

No country can win a war on its own.The US thinks so.The World disagrees.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
stall
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:46 pm

The USA aren't hated.

A lot of people disagree with the US government foreign politic but that doesn't mean they hate the US.

If you doubt this ask your US friends living or traveling abroad and listen to their answers.
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jaysit
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:55 pm

We're not hated, luv.

Only our dimwit Dufus El Presidente is.

Even the rattiest, tattiest, smelliest, hairiest Al Qaeda goon will admit that he loves Terminator movies, Victorias Secrets advertisements and Coca Cola.
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BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 28):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Mexico dislikes US because of NAFTA - we ought to dislike ourselves because of NAFTA! The American worker lost on that deal - BIG. Just as did the American truck driver.

So why does the U.S. government push so hard for deals like NAFTA and CAFTA if it hurts workers in our country as well as countries like Mexico? Me'thinks its to line the pockets of the few.

Well politics often has a hidden agenda, and the above question regarding NAFTA could be asked of the UK regarding the EU. Since 1973, politicians keep telling the people what a brilliant thing the EU is, but if you ask the average person they are quite sure that they only voted for a free trade agreement, not surrender of national sovereignty which seems to be what's happening. However, as the thread was about the US, not the UK, I will give you my 2 cents worth.

The US is not hated, and some of the above posts some it up well.

I lived in Libya, and sometimes on Thursdays the offices would clear out and all the Libyans would go downtown and demonstrate against the US for something or other. For those of you who have always lived in a free country, you probably find it hard to comprehend being forced to go and demonstate against your will. Later on that day CNN shows "massive" anti-US demos in Tripoli, and everyone watching takes it a face value.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:09 pm

I do not hate America or Americans , however , that does not prevent me from often being uncomfortable with some of the actions taken by US administrations . I think that like a lot of people I am somewhat unnerved by the USA's disproportionate influence in world affairs - before anyone flames me for that I will clarify that I mean this in a non-political way - it is worrying that a nation which has only about 6-8% of the worlds population is in a position to make big decisions which affect all the rest of us ... particularly when it is a country which , by and large , has a very inwards looking populace ( yes , I know that there are many Americans who take an active interest in world affairs , but it seems to me that there are many more who have little or no interest in what goes on outside their borders ) who therefore tend to vote in very insular administrations .

Sharing the planet with the US is somewhat akin to sharing a bed with an elephant , it can crush you without meaning to and without any malice whatsoever on it's behalf ... that sort of imbalance of power does make people nervous and distrustful .
 
mrmeangenes
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:14 pm

Is asking a question such as "Why is America hated ?" a bit like asking: "Have you stopped beating your wife ?"

There are "America haters" in many parts of the world-and there are people in the USA who have had it drummed into them that they should be ashamed;that they should feel guilty;that they must be doing SOMETHING wrong.

How many have stopped to consider how much of this "America hate" is the poisonous waste product of some of the "great thinkers" of Europe (and the USA), who "just knew" Communism would enjoy the ultimate triumph, and who have been at sixes and sevens since it failed ?

It's interesting to observe how many generations they have poisoned with their nonsense !
gene
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 43):
Later on that day CNN shows "massive" anti-US demos in Tripoli, and everyone watching takes it a face value.

Better to watch NDTV24x7 instead  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FDXmech
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 38):
can understand how frustrated some Americans must feel by this notion that you're all "hated", but it's simply not the case. I for one love the United States - and cannot wait to return for another visit. I love your country, so don't think all of us hate you guys.

I appreciate your post. But don't worry, I haven't met but a few (mostly on A.net) who were outwardly frustrated over such matters.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 39):
The US Government and it's policies is hated by many people around the world however.

The world must be a boring place. Don't these people have something else to do? If the US is the center of all their thoughts and frustrations, perhaps they should take up a hobby.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 44):
Sharing the planet with the US is somewhat akin to sharing a bed with an elephant , it can crush you without meaning to and without any malice whatsoever on it's behalf ... that sort of imbalance of power does make people nervous and distrustful .

Good metaphor.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
I wonder . . . . is there no one else on this whole damn planet that couldn't go in there, kick the rebel ass, help those people get some food, water, and restart their lives?

Because they're all just like us. They're all just looking out for their own asses and won't help people out when they need it, even if it means no gain for themselves.

If they were all just like the US, then other said counties would be taking care of the problem as we write.

Your Darfur example makes me think that a brilliant drug researcher discovering many cures should be hated because he didn't cure everything.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Matt D
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:45 am

Love. Hate. Envy. They all go hand in hand.

'Nuff said.

 
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RE: Why Is America Hated?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 47):
If the US is the center of all their thoughts and frustrations, perhaps they should take up a hobby.

like USA-bashing on the internet ?  duck   wave 

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