ANCFlyer
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Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:58 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/23/iraq.main/index.html

Two Combat Brigades - approximately 7000 soldiers - will NOT be redeployed to Iraq.

Beginning of Permanent Cuts in US/UK Troops strength in Iraq?







Blah, Blah Blah

Please make sure you are not posting a double. If this topic has already been discussed you should post in the thread already started. The following similar threads were found:
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:33 pm

I sure hope so...our guys and gals put their lives on the line for the Iraqis, and we've lost many of our own, but they have done a great job (except the idiots at Abu Ghraib) in what they've done there.

But, it's time for the Iraqis to shit or get off the pot. We need to bring our folks home when it's prudent to do so, and let them pursue their own destiny.
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tbar220
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:28 pm

I sure hope this is permanent. Its time our men and women in uniform start coming home and away from the danger.

For every Iraqi brigade that is fully operational, an American brigade needs to leave IMO.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:29 pm

Someone will find a way to make this a negative and pin it on Bush.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:30 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
For every Iraqi brigade that is fully operational, an American brigade needs to leave IMO.

I quite agree.

Furthermore, I agree with StevenUhl777 here:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 1):
But, it's time for the Iraqis to shit or get off the pot. We need to bring our folks home when it's prudent to do so

I understand the shit storm there we created for the most part - however, it's time to tell the Iraqi gov't, look fellas . . . . we ain't playin' nursemaid much longer . . . time for you to step into the batters box . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:00 pm

It's a start, hopefully the pace will accelerate over the coming year. My personal opinion is that the significant Sunni participation in the recent election bodes well for substantial progress in the near future.

I think the topic checker came as close as I've ever seen to throwing realistic threads at you on this one - of course there's still a funny one or two in there.
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Thorben
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:37 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
I understand the shit storm there we created for the most part - however, it's time to tell the Iraqi gov't, look fellas . . . . we ain't playin' nursemaid much longer . . . time for you to step into the batters box . .

You broke it, you fix it.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
You broke it, you fix it.

I don't think you'll find anyone disputing this Thorben. And I have said it myself, plenty of times.

That said: The Iraqi's are going to have to get on it. As they field operational units, we can depart. We wil leave a contingent there - for a decade or so - to provide followon training and oversight. We can't just bail out.

[Edited 2005-12-24 10:04:43]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Thorben
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
I don't think you'll find anyone disputing this Thorben. And I have said it myself, plenty of times.

Americans say it all the time, I'm just reminding you of your own rules.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
That said: The Iraqi's are going to have to get on it. As they field operational units, we can depart. We wil leave a contingent there - for a decade or so - to provide followon training and oversight. We can't just bail out.

Of course you can not bail out like that. But don't put too much hope in the Iraqi forces. They are all members of some tribe and of some religion, they aren't robots. When some interior conflict brakes out, they'll be loyal to their respective tribal or religious leaders, not to the US or the central government. There is also word of insurgents being in those forces.

Concerning the value of my answers, I'll go now and I won't be back before Tuesday. Gives you time to answer
patriotism
spies and lies
great improvements
crime and punishment

And Merry Christmas, ANC!
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
gkirk
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:30 pm

Understand Blair has said that all UK troops will start pulling out of Iraq in May 2006
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:33 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Concerning the value of my answers, I'll go now and I won't be back before Tuesday. Gives you time to answer
patriotism
spies and lies
great improvements
crime and punishment

See you Tuesday, Merry Christmas, don't drink too much eggnog . . .

And WTF would you like me to answer? And WTF is the purpose of the links?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
HatTrick
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 3):
Someone will find a way to make this a negative and pin it on Bush.

Someone will find a way to make Bush look like a Saint on this.

Wonderful timing for the '06 midterms
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:44 am

regardless of the political posturing, and who claims responsibility for the troop draw-down, it is wonderful news ... god bless the men and women from all nations who did the job they were handed, right or wrong ... it is time to for the end to begin

wishing everyone a peaceful 2006

The Lester Mainwaring Party
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:30 am

You can bet the Dems will claim that they forced the Presidents hand somehow. No way they are going to just sit around and hand the President a success. Unfortunately for them, if the news is true, they will have to spend the easter recess coming up with a new campaign strategy.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
You broke it, you fix it

It was broken a long time ago but we will fix it. We've certainly fixed bigger messes in our history wink . I hope they don't rush the redeployment. I'd rather see our troops stay there until the Iraqis really have control of the situation then to leave and then have things melt down behind us. While I agree that tribal factions will play in their politics, so will the differing religions. The key will be if they can recognize and survive outside attempts to influence the situation on their own. That will be the biggest challenge since there are two countries next door that have everything to gain by seeing a democracy in Iraq fail.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/23/iraq.main/index.html

Two Combat Brigades - approximately 7000 soldiers - will NOT be redeployed to Iraq.

Beginning of Permanent Cuts in US/UK Troops strength in Iraq?

This was news the other day when Blair went over, and before that when the British started talking about pulling out of their sector.

The Iraqi forces are getting to the stage where cuts can be made and duties increasingly turned over to them. What is needed now is a firm commitment to NO longterm plans for bases, and to get out when they ask us to turn over all duties to local forces. Otherwise the whole thing turns to shit and becomes an expensive and enduring fiasco.

Much as some hawks want permanent forces based in Iraq this cannot be allowed to happen. It is important to the future of Iraq and its people that once the job is done those foreign troops depart. Leaving any forces in the country sends the wrong messages out and breaks promises made to the people there.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 13):
No way they are going to just sit around and hand the President a success.

God knows he won't have a success unless someone hands it to him ...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
The Iraqi forces are getting to the stage where cuts can be made and duties increasingly turned over to them.

Got to balance the withdrawals with the Iraqi's ability to stand on their own. Tough to do. Needs to be measured and not set in stone. Can't leave too soon or they'll get over run; can't wait too long or we're caught babysitting.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
What is needed now is a firm commitment to NO longterm plans for bases,

As much as I'd like to think that will happen, I don't think it will. I suspect we'll maintain at least a few large scale long term installations there. Probably through the end of the decade.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
Leaving any forces in the country sends the wrong messages out and breaks promises made to the people there.

Unless the new Iraqi gov't requests it. And then only a small advisory contingent. Not endless streams of combat units.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
lobster
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Two Combat Brigades - approximately 7000 soldiers - will NOT be redeployed to Iraq.

Good news, but I'm personally still hoping I get sent over next year when I'm done training.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:49 pm

Quoting Lobster (Reply 17):
Good news, but I'm personally still hoping I get sent over next year when I'm done training.

While I congratulate you on your desire to serve, I have to question why your WANT to get sent to a combat zone? Ever been there?

Note to Self: Well, Shit ANCFlyer - no he hasn't - or he wouldn't be itching to go.

Don't glorify it, don't dream of it, don't anticipate it to be a cake walk . . . if you get to go, it will be the experience of a lifetime - and it could quite possibly alter your life in ways that you can't even imagine. Physically and mentally.

For your sake I hope you don't get your wish . . . no offense . . .

If you do, my commendations and I hope your skills as a 91W aren't needed very often by this time next year.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 15):
God knows he won't have a success unless someone hands it to him ...

This is just what I mean. Some people just have to throw in crap like that. The only way they can be happy is by trying to continually tear someone else down.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 19):
This is just what I mean. Some people just have to throw in crap like that. The only way they can be happy is by trying to continually tear someone else down.


Oh, sorry Oh Gilligan God for using my Constitutionally-given right to express my opinion.

The only way people like YOU (note: I am not saying Republicans; I am saying rabid right wingers) can be happy is living in a dictatorship where likeminded fools think the same way ... your way or the highway, huh?

I'm not trying to tear anything down, YOUR president has done a pretty friggin' good job of that.

Well, kiss my red, white and blue ass. I might be so far left that I can see socialism from where I stand, but I'm as big of patriot as you, buddy-boy. YOU and your zombie-minded kind don't own this country.

i support all our liberties -- right to bear arms, right of religious freedom, right of free speech and more --- what's wrong with that? my comment didn't attack you, it stated my opinion of King George the Idiot.

now, have a nice day in the land of the free and the home of the brave

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...

[Edited 2005-12-26 23:17:30]
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
Thorben
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
See you Tuesday, Merry Christmas, don't drink too much eggnog . . .

And WTF would you like me to answer? And WTF is the purpose of the links?

Links to other threads where the last reply was from me and it was longer than one line.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 20):
Oh, sorry Oh Gilligan God for using my Constitutionally-given right to express my opinion.

Would you kindly point out just exactly where I said you didn't have the right to post that message? Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean that I didn't think you had to the right to post it. If you don't agree with the current adminstrations policies, you had a chance to rid yourself of them just over a year ago. Obviously you were in the minority since he is still President. If you want to continue to disagree go ahead. But tossing crap out like that is just as bad as people on the right that continually want to bring back the things that Clinton did. I stand by my statement. Since you, without hesitation, decided to tell me to basically shut up who among us really doesn't believe in the first amendment?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 22):
Since you, without hesitation, decided to tell me to basically shut up who among us really doesn't believe in the first amendment?


i didn't basically tell you to shut up

i basically told you i thought you were lacking some gray matter

but don't worry, because i support the rights of all persons, regardless of their abilities

d'oh

[Edited 2005-12-29 23:43:47]
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 23):
but don't worry, because i support the rights of all persons, regardless of their abilities

That's a good thing and since I support minority rights I'll be happy to help you where I can.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
TERRA
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:00 am

Now that the Iraqis are getting organized (?) it is time for them to step up to the mark. If they can get their armed services and police force functional and effective this will help negate the need for the numbers of US troops currently in theatre.

However i still feel that US troops will be in IQ for years to come (20 yrs) but limiting the numbers of those exposed to danger during this time can only be a good thing. Lets remember that IQ is a big mess and the coalition (this term is not used enough!) will still need to be there to support the Iraqis until the battle is won.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
The Iraqi's are going to have to get on it.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
it's time to tell the Iraqi gov't, look fellas . . . . we ain't playin' nursemaid much longer



Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 1):
our guys and gals put their lives on the line for the Iraqis

All of this I find very strange. The Americans went in and killed 100,000 Iraqis, and completely destroyed the infrastructure, and now it's down to the Iraqis to fix it. Nice one guys (especially the bit about your "guys and gals" putting their lives on the line - oh really? show me one Iraqi other than Ahmed Chalabi who wanted the US to attack).

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
What is needed now is a firm commitment to NO longterm plans for bases

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but you wouldn't believe the scale of US military construction over there. Even the stuff in the a.net photo database for Iraq will surprise you. Let alone the stuff that's being done over the horizon. So what if 7,000 soldiers don't go back for a third tour of duty. The Americans are planning to be in Iraq for a VERY LONG TIME.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 26):
The Americans went in and killed 100,000 Iraqis,

Proof please.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 26):
and now it's down to the Iraqis to fix it.

Who rebuilt Germany and Japan? The Phillipines? South Korea? While the U.S. provided funds it certainly wasn't U.S. citizens over there driving the nails.
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greasespot
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:20 am

I will make this prediction.....

BY the time the next presidential election there will be nothing more than a token American force in Iraq...Whether they are ready to stand alone or not...

At the same time i am not sure there is anything anyone can do to make Iraq stand on it's own. Maybe pulling the troops out now before more are killed and letting Iraq end up where it may is the best...

Until the middleast is tired of fighting you cannot impose democracy or lasting peace. Best hope is to just try and contain them.


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Gilligan
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 28):
BY the time the next presidential election there will be nothing more than a token American force in Iraq

Agree 100%

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 28):
Whether they are ready to stand alone or not...

I think they will be, my hope is that they will be anyway.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 28):
Until the middleast is tired of fighting you cannot impose democracy or lasting peace

So true, but not just of the middle east.

I wish I could understand what makes a person think that if they just blow themselves up things will change when they can look back and see that not one single solitary car bomber or human bomb has made any kind of real change happen anywhere it's been tried. I mean, when does it finally start to sink in that the tactic just doesn't work? I understand the culture part but you would think the sensible part of their brain would ask, will it really do any good?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 27):
Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 26):
The Americans went in and killed 100,000 Iraqis,

Proof please.

The British medical journal The Lancet did a deep investigation, and this was the number they came up with. Needless to add, the Lancet is not pro- or anti-Bush, Dem, Rep, you name it. It is the world's leading publication for the medical profession and have been in print for hundreds of years. They don't make stuff up, they don't print anything that isn't verifiable - they're a scientific organisation.

100,000.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 30):
The British medical journal The Lancet

I will have to look at how they arrived at their numbers before I have any comment. I find it hard to believe on the face though as I would have assumed that any one of a number of other jounalistic enterprises would have been all over it by now.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:32 am

Well we're deploying for 13 months, so America won't be cutting and running in the near future.

But hey, I'm eager to go. There is only so much training you can do before you gotta get out there and put your skills to work! Hooah!

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 31):
any one of a number of other jounalistic enterprises would have been all over it by now.

Certainly in the UK, it was on the front pages of most of the national papers. In the US it was probably pushed back by a waterskiing poodle or something equally soothing.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
cedarjet
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 31):
any one of a number of other jounalistic enterprises would have been all over it by now.

...except Fox News who probably showed the British medical establishment to be all "anti-American" commies and proves the dangers of socialised medicine.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Thorben
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 30):
100,000.

Aha. What would you call it then when the "war against terror" has killed more people then the original terror itself? What is the use of the whole thing, then?
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: Beginning Of Permanent Troops Cuts In Iraq?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 33):
Certainly in the UK, it was on the front pages of most of the national papers. In

Considering most British papers will print just about anything based on the smallest shreds or flimsiest pieces of evidence, I will ignore your statement so as not to bais my thinking.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 34):
except Fox News who probably showed the British medical establishment to be all "anti-American" commies and proves the dangers of socialised medicine.

Wouldn't know, don't watch Fox all that often unless there is some sort of breaking news and then I channel flip between Fox, CNN, MSNBC, or the networks if they have broken programming. I have to search to find the channel which always amuses my daughters.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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