aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:42 am

I just watched Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices. A couple of highlights:


  • Wal-Mart will show employees how to sign up for WIC, Medi-Cal, PeachCare, etc. It's estimated that Wal-Mart costs taxpayers roughly $2 billion each year between Medicaide, free lunches for children, Section 8 housing, etc.
  • One Wal-Mart employee was told there was "no room for people like her" because she was a black woman.
  • Wal-Mart is shutting down Main Street USA.
  • Wal-Mart isn't paying overtime.
  • The Walton family gives $6,000 a year to a fund that assists Wal-Mart "associates" after a disaster. Wal-Mart employees give around $5 million a year. The Walton's contribution is the equivalent of the average hourly Wal-Mart employee giving $0.006.
  • Wal-Mart union busts like crazy.


What's your take on the above? Do you still shop at Wal-Mart?

AAndrew
 
4holer
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:46 am

Well I never set foot in one and never will, if that answers your question...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:52 am

Wal-Mart is the epitome of unbridled capitalism. I don't shop there, though. A friend did, and when we went to hook up his new DVD purchase (another Wal-Mart bargain), the Wal-Mart version of the same TV available anywhere else didn't have the right A/V inputs, so he had to buy one of those converter units that Radio Shack advertised so much a couple of years ago (I always wondered why, since my TV from 1991 was DVD-capable). So you think you're getting a deal there sometimes, when you really aren't.
International Homo of Mystery
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart will show employees how to sign up for WIC, Medi-Cal, PeachCare, etc. It's estimated that Wal-Mart costs taxpayers roughly $2 billion each year between Medicaide, free lunches for children, Section 8 housing, etc.

It's important to understand that Wal-Mart is, for most of the people you are talking about, an entry-level employer. It is a place people who are on welfare, medicaid, section 8, etc, can get into the system. Those people would often be a larger draw against the system if Wal-Mart had not given them a job.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
One Wal-Mart employee was told there was "no room for people like her" because she was a black woman

Just 'cause one stupid employee may have said something stupid does not make it company policy. I have seen many, many minorities working at WM, and no one forced any of them to go to work there. Try going to one of them and telling them you are going to help them out by getting them fired. See what they say...

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart is shutting down Main Street USA

No more than Sears, K-Mart, or any of the others before them...the world is just changing. Not WM's fault.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart isn't paying overtime

Of course they do, if the employee earns it. Most retail businesses schedule their employees to avoid overtime, as do lots of other businesses.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart union busts like crazy.

Then there must be a weakness in what the unions have to offer.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
Wal-Mart is the epitome of unbridled capitalism.

 checkmark 

Power to the People!
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart will show employees how to sign up for WIC, Medi-Cal, PeachCare, etc. It's estimated that Wal-Mart costs taxpayers roughly $2 billion each year between Medicaide, free lunches for children, Section 8 housing, etc.

Your elected representatives wrote the laws that allow employers not to contribute to healthcare, etc. Vote them out.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
One Wal-Mart employee was told there was "no room for people like her" because she was a black woman.

Are you saying there are no black people working at Walmart?

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart is shutting down Main Street USA.

The shopping public has decided that they LIKE to do as much of their shopping in one place as possible and for low prices. I find that the supermarket is cheaper and quicker than going to a greengrocer, butcher, pharmacy, etc. seperately. Should I be forced to do it anyway?

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart isn't paying overtime.

If it's illegal, file a complaint, and they can be prosecuted. If not, well, see earlier response about your elected officials.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
The Walton family gives $6,000 a year to a fund that assists Wal-Mart "associates" after a disaster. Wal-Mart employees give around $5 million a year. The Walton's contribution is the equivalent of the average hourly Wal-Mart employee giving $0.006.

And how much money do the Waltons provide to all other charities (I have no idea)? This is too easy. Someone can criticise me for not giving a cent to the Red Cross, and simply not mention that I give a shitload of money to Doctors Without Borders.

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart union busts like crazy.

Good. I hate organized unions. But locally organized collective bargaining and representation is good.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:02 am

I agree Walmart is evil... I worked at 2 different stores between 11/04 - 8/05 and I was constantly treated like crap. My hard work never paid off, so I started slacking off.. Only then did they notice it, but if I worked my tail off, they never gave me anything to show for it. I like for the work I do to be appreciated, not ignored.. So when I moved back to Unloading at the Kenosha store, Things started looking pretty good, but the damage had been done. I quit 2 weeks later. Not my best decision as it did bring in a paycheck, but I could not take the abuse any longer.

My Best friend is a seasonal cashier who may be terminated at the end of the month. She is sick of the shit that goes on there as well, and she's only been there since September 2, 2005. I honestly hope she can get a job where they don't necessarily pay her more, but treat her better. The Pizza Hut on 39th/52nd treat their employees right. If I could, I would apply there, but the pay would not be nearly enough for me to pay bills/rent... But my best friend still lives w/ her parents, so I hope she makes a run for it. Personally, I believe the job she had before it was better.
Puhdiddle
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 6):
agree Walmart is evil... I worked at 2 different stores between 11/04 - 8/05 and I was constantly treated like crap. My hard work never paid off, so I started slacking off.. Only then did they notice it, but if I worked my tail off, they never gave me anything to show for it. I like for the work I do to be appreciated, not ignored.. So when I moved back to Unloading at the Kenosha store, Things started looking pretty good, but the damage had been done. I quit 2 weeks later. Not my best decision as it did bring in a paycheck, but I could not take the abuse any longer.

My Best friend is a seasonal cashier who may be terminated at the end of the month. She is sick of the shit that goes on there as well, and she's only been there since September 2, 2005. I honestly hope she can get a job where they don't necessarily pay her more, but treat her better. The Pizza Hut on 39th/52nd treat their employees right. If I could, I would apply there, but the pay would not be nearly enough for me to pay bills/rent... But my best friend still lives w/ her parents, so I hope she makes a run for it. Personally, I believe the job she had before it was better.

Congratulations...that's the most whining I've ever seen crammed into only two paragraphs...

 Wink
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
Wal-Mart is the epitome of unbridled capitalism.

Walmart is the epitome of abusive business practices. There is a way to make a buck without it being at the expense of its workers and manufacturers. Obviously not every business is a responsible corporate citizen, but from what i have read, Walmart is the poster child for explotation.

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
aa757first
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 3):

It's important to understand that Wal-Mart is, for most of the people you are talking about, an entry-level employer. It is a place people who are on welfare, medicaid, section 8, etc, can get into the system. Those people would often be a larger draw against the system if Wal-Mart had not given them a job.

Then why does Safeway have better pay and benefits? They are the same type of workers. One Wal-Mart employee was talking about the differences between Safeway (and the like) and Wal-Mart's health plan. On Safeway's plan, a prescription was $5. On Wal-Mart's, it was close to $70.

Wal-Mart's hourly wage in California is a tad over $10 an hour. At some unionized grocery stores in California the wages are close to $17 an hour.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 3):

Just 'cause one stupid employee may have said something stupid does not make it company policy. I have seen many, many minorities working at WM, and no one forced any of them to go to work there. Try going to one of them and telling them you are going to help them out by getting them fired. See what they say...

Then why aren't they doing anything about it? One employee was called a ni****. He filed a report. No one was fired. No one was even reprimanded. There was a simulated lynching using a bike. No one was fired.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 3):

No more than Sears, K-Mart, or any of the others before them...the world is just changing. Not WM's fault.

But Sears and K-Mart pay fair wages and have less control over suppliers, meaning the playing field is more level when competing with them.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 3):

Of course they do, if the employee earns it. Most retail businesses schedule their employees to avoid overtime, as do lots of other businesses.

Wal-Mart loss prevention manger, 15 years: At one store, I have seen everyone except one general manager access the computer system with a fake login and move hours from week to week, to keep the hour count under 40.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 3):

Then there must be a weakness in what the unions have to offer.

Yes, money. SEIU and UFCW can't spend $8 million to organize one Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart can (and does) pay that money at the faintest hint of a union drive.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):

Are you saying there are no black people working at Walmart?

Yes, they work there. But are they treated fairly? Of course there are black people at Wal-Mart! What kind of lawsuit would they have against them if they had a 0% black workforce in a community that was 50% black.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):

If it's illegal, file a complaint, and they can be prosecuted. If not, well, see earlier response about your elected officials.

There are huge lawsuits all over the country. There was $15 million dollar settlement in Coldorado earlier this year.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):

And how much money do the Waltons provide to all other charities (I have no idea)? This is too easy. Someone can criticise me for not giving a cent to the Red Cross, and simply not mention that I give a shitload of money to Doctors Without Borders.

1% of their total wealth (around $18 billion each) is contributed to charities. Compare that with 58% of Bill Gate's wealth.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):

Good. I hate organized unions. But locally organized collective bargaining and representation is good.

I don't think I would ever vote "yes" for a union, unless I was at Wal-Mart. They fight over silly things a lot of the times and often seem anxious to shut a company down (IAM with Eastern, AFA with United, etc).

That being said, so far, no one is protecting these employees. Someone has to, and it's going to come in the form of a union.

AAndrew
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:20 am

[

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 8):
Walmart is the poster child for explotation

No one has to work there, no one has to shop there...
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 10):
No one has to work there, no one has to shop there...

Well, unfortunately sometimes people do have to work there. Sometimes there is very little choice except taking a crappy, low paying job or being homeless on the street. Sometimes you have to choose between two evils, like working at a job at Walmart or an equally demoralizing, demeaning job at, say, 7-11.

We don't always have choices. I seriously doubt most people who work at Walmart are happy, but I bet many of them feel trapped.

You are right about not having to shop there, I guess unless you don't have transportation and live next door to one. I don't shop there at all.

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 11):
Well, unfortunately sometimes people do have to work there. Sometimes there is very little choice except taking a crappy, low paying job or being homeless on the street. Sometimes you have to choose between two evils, like working at a job at Walmart or an equally demoralizing, demeaning job at, say, 7-11.

So you admit working at WM is better than having no job...sounds like a public service to me...

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 11):
I seriously doubt most people who work at Walmart are happy, but I bet many of them feel trapped.

I actually do know people who work there, ane they're perfectly fine with it. Would they like more money? Of course, who wouldn't. But they don't feel mistreated.

You are responding to a lot of union-started and media-spread prooganda. You oughta try going into one of their stores sometime and take a look.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:35 am

Wallmart is truely evil. I despise their store and hate them so much. Here in CEF land we just got a new one over the summer and its rediculous. Traffic delays on the main road are 10-15 mins at best,at worst, gun barrel in my mouth. police responding to the store atleast 2-3 times a day according to my scanner, fights over 20$ dvd players last thanksgiving, no more bussiness downtown or even in the multi-million dollara plaza the city had built...right next to the walmart.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:38 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):
So you admit working at WM is better than having no job...sounds like a public service to me...

I never said that. What I said is that Walmart is a great corruptor. In a period where public assistance is greatly decreasing, it is incumbent upon employers, especially employers that do so well financially, to provide good working conditions, benefits and a living wage to their employees.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):
I actually do know people who work there, ane they're perfectly fine with it.

Are these people able to make it on their salary, or do they work another job? Does their spouse work? Could they make a car payment, rent payment, put groceries on the table and have health care on their Walmart salary? Or is this just a second job, or a job to suppliment the job of the breadwinner of the family? Do they have health insurance through Walmart? Retirement? Or are they just working there to make a little extra folding money?

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):
You are responding to a lot of union-started and media-spread prooganda

You are responding to right wing propeganda from the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):
ou oughta try going into one of their stores sometime and take a look.

Been there, done that, didn't like it, won't be back

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
AGM100
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:41 am

It has its place.. Do not buy electronics from thier. But its great for lots of other stuff .. Who cares about thier employees they sure dont care about you when your in thier shopping..
Besides no one is forceing them to get jobs at WalMart... When you need a pay check Wal Mart can give you one. Thats it.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 14):
Or is this just a second job, or a job to suppliment the job of the breadwinner of the family? Do they have health insurance through Walmart? Retirement? Or are they just working there to make a little extra folding money?

What's wrong with that? Not every job can (or should) be a family supporting job. Would you want to pay $8 for a burger at McDonalds so every kid flipping burgers could make $20/hour? Of course not. Why is WM different?

Everybody needs to start somewhere. WM is an entry level employer, for the most part. We need those.

By the way, I don't like Limbaugh...have'nt heard him in years...
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):
What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with paying a livable wage?

Where are people going to find good jobs, if not with the world's largest employer?

When I have been to Walmart, I haven't seen a lot of kids working there. What I do see are people like me that need to make a decent wage without working two or three jobs. What I see are welfare lines increasing, people working a job but still having to get foodstamps, people working but still having to go to free health clinics. I also see an uncaring system trying to cut these people off in a perverse form of genocide.

I don't know how the "greatest country on earth" can turn its back on its own citizens.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):
By the way, I don't like Limbaugh...have'nt heard him in years...

And I haven't been influenced by union or media propaganda. I have been influenced by a religion that believes we help others out who are in need and that recogizes the modern day money changers in the temple.

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
MiCorazonAzul
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Do you still shop at Wal-Mart?

I LOVE going to Wally World when I'm bored. I always manage to spend lots of money on stuff I don't need and will never use. Serves as a great stress reliever. Target seems to do the trick also.
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

.....depends on the size of the line at the checkout counter.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 17):
And I haven't been influenced by union or media propaganda. I have been influenced by a religion that believes we help others out who are in need and that recogizes the modern day money changers in the temple

As have I...but the problem comes in determining a "living wage". One reason we are the greatest country in the world is our free enterprise system. I have been an employer in that system, and while I wanted to do the best for my employees, I also needed to make a profit.

The system determines how much labor, as well as product, is worth. As I pointed out, not everyone can start at the top. The competition in retail is fierce...pay too much an you're out of business and your employees are out of a job. Retail is not a good career choice for a breadwinner, we all know that.
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 20):
"living wage"

well, i think there are statistics out there for that, basically anything above the federal poverty level

i'm not advocating $30,000 wages for clerks that ring up our underwear, it just makes me so sad to see good, honest people that have to work 2 jobs or more to barely ilk out a living.

there are more ways to pay someone, too, than with an actual salary. allow them to buy their groceries (non-alchohol or tobacco) at cost to feed their family. have a clinic set up for health care. give them substancial discounts on their prescriptions at the pharmacy.

but please, lets make sure everyone in this country that wants to be honest, wants to have a job, wants to work and be productive, can have even a shot at the american dream.

...
The Lester Mainwaring Party
...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 10):

No one has to work there, no one has to shop there...

People do have to work there. A Super Wal-Mart comes to town. First, the locally owned supermarket goes under because A) they pay their employees decently and B) because they can't get the retail goods cheaply enough. There goes that. Then the factory near Wal-Mart shuts down after years of trying to make goods cheaper, because they have to compete with China. Yes, Wal-Mart supports China instead of America. They have done it before the WTO. Wal-Mart vs America. Now, where do you go? You take a huge loss on health insurance and a $4 an hour paycut, plus a shitty working environment.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 12):

So you admit working at WM is better than having no job...sounds like a public service to me...

No kidding. Being a prostitute is better than no job, right?

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):

What's wrong with that? Not every job can (or should) be a family supporting job. Would you want to pay $8 for a burger at McDonalds so every kid flipping burgers could make $20/hour? Of course not. Why is WM different?

Look at Wal-Mart's work force. They aren't 16 year old girls working to pay for concert tickets. They are middle aged people trying to support themselves.

And the fast food industry just pays less. Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, their pay is all in the same neighborhood. When McDonald's comes in, they don't force down Burger King's wage. Wal-Mart forces down Publix's, Safeway's, Giant's, Pathmark's wages.

AAndrew
 
Superfly
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:29 am

Glad I live in a Wal-Mart free city.
I hear nothing good about that company. I've only been in a Wal-Mart once (Las Vegas) and the story was a mess, items out of place, wrong price tags, staff knew nothing, lots of bad behaving kids and lots of opened/damaged items.
Costco and Target are much better stores than Wal-Mart.
Bring back the Concorde
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
I hear nothing good about that company.

The only good thing I can think of is their generous response to Hurricane Katrina. Unfortunately, their day to day business is not run like that.

AAndrew
 
Superfly
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 24):
The only good thing I can think of is their generous response to Hurricane Katrina.

The whole world came together to help out including nations our government don't have good relations with.
Bring back the Concorde
 
blrsea
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:17 am

Shouldn't the govt be imposing better minimum wages? I see people blaming walmart, but they are paying the minimum wage set by the state, and many people are willing to take up on that offer.

If you truly want to make life better for the minimum wage workers, petition your govt to raise the wages to what you feel should be the minimum decent wage.
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:19 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 26):
etition your govt

There is a better chance of building a snowman in Calcutta than that happening ...
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:20 am

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5221

""The High Cost of Low Prices" is the revealing title of a polemical documentary in which some of Wal-Mart's disgruntled former employees (rather than current employees) and competitors (rather than customers) vent paranoid complaints and expose their ignorance. The absurdity of the title gives away the plot. Would anyone pay to see a movie about "The Low Cost of High Prices"?"

Walmart is what consumers want, otherwise it wouldn't BE Walmart.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
Walmart is what consumers wan

A lot of people wanted segregation and Apartheid too, but didn't mean it was right
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:45 am

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 29):
A lot of people wanted segregation and Apartheid too, but didn't mean it was right

Uhh. Segregation and Apartheid were the law of the land. There was no other option - especially for those who bore the brunt of the system.

Americans have the option to shop elsewhere, or seek employment elsewhere. Admittedly, in many communities that option may not exist, but in most places you have myriad options to choose from. As for working at Walmart in a dead end job, you have the option of going to college, a community college, a trade school, the military, etc. to better your life. America is all about choices and options to better your lives - especially for young people.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
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RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:47 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
Uhh. Segregation and Apartheid were the law of the land.

ummm, yeah, and a lot of people resisted the change
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
you have the option of going to college, a community college, a trade school, the military, etc. to better your life. America is all about choices and options to better your lives

oh, and before we use the 'pull yourself up by the bootstrap' card, lets also realize that answer isn't a one-size fits all.
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
DaddiesSecret
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:16 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:13 am

People [consumers] in the western world really need to grow up a little and realise that for pretty much every price drop in a supermarket someone somewhere will suffer for it be it a coffee grower in central america or a shelf stacker down the local street.

People need to realise that food bought in supermarkets [no matter how nice and pretty it looks like] is generally of shockingly poor quality. Their apples aught to be called hint of apple flavour in a polystyrene ball.

Good products especially food are not cheap!

Yes, walmart are a legal company living in a capitalist society providing services to willing customers, but so are pornographers and would you really want to live by their example?
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting DaddiesSecret (Reply 33):
Yes, walmart are a legal company living in a capitalist society providing services to willing customers, but so are pornographers and would you really want to live by their example

their no different, their 'product' may be differnet, but their purpose is no different, the almighty dollar. And what example does walmart set? Low wages, low employee moral, and destroying the small retail outlet?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
lesmainwaring
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:47 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting DaddiesSecret (Reply 33):
People [consumers] in the western world really need to grow up a little and realise that for pretty much every price drop in a supermarket someone somewhere will suffer for it

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:18 pm

Wal Mart is great and I very much appreciate the money they save me. I work for my money and enjoy spending it where and how I want.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 17):
I don't know how the "greatest country on earth" can turn its back on its own citizens.

America does more for its citizens than any country I've seen. I wouldn't call America the greatest country on earth, but I wouldn't call any country that moniker either. I can say that compared to other places I've lived, Europe and the middle east, America offers much more opportunity for people to get ahead - America is the number one destination for immigrants in the world because the opportunity is simply incredible - compared even to other regional leaders like the UK in Europe or Egypt in the middle east.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 17):
I have been influenced by a religion that believes we help others out who are in need and that recogizes the modern day money changers in the temple.

The money changers were affiliated with the local clerics and were effectively changing the temple/church into a business. There is no relationship with that story and Wal Mart, whatsoever.

Yes, we should help others in need - but there are none of those people in America, and certainly none working at Wal Mart. Around 25 000 children will die today in the 3rd world due to hunger - those are people in need. Your patriarchal class warfare version of what constitutes need is insulting if it involves people earning $8-10/hour Wal Mart wages and serves mainly to illustrate your resentment at Wal Mart's success.

quote=LesMainwaring,reply=21]but please, lets make sure everyone in this country that wants to be honest, wants to have a job, wants to work and be productive, can have even a shot at the american dream[/quote]

Financial Aid to any US college, junior college, trade school or whatever is readily available. People who make bad decisions end up in middle age working at Wal Mart barely getting by. You are welcome to give them your money if you like, but please don't take mine to pay for their bad decisions.

Cairo
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 31):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
Uhh. Segregation and Apartheid were the law of the land.

ummm, yeah, and a lot of people resisted the change

And you can resist shopping at Walmart if you want.

But don't compare Walmart to apartheid or segregation which had no redeeming virtues to speak of.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:54 pm

Wal-Mart is fine.

I get quite a lot of things there . . . we have three in ANC, and will have a 4th.

Things I get there: Lightbulbs, socks, underwear, paper products, toiletries, DVDs, etc. If could get the same items, at a better price, elsewhere - I would go elsewhere.

So, with all the Wal-Mart bashing about pay, benefits, etc . . . can anyone tell me if their competition - Target, K-Mart, etc - in Alaska their competiton is a store called Fred Meyer (owned by Kroger Corp) - do any better. Fred Meyer is a bit more upscale than Wal-Mart . . . I do a considerable amount of shopping there.

The K-Marts here in Alaska went bye bye when K-Mart closed all those stores a couple years ago. No matter - those were the worst stocked, dirtiest, nastiest stores in Anchorage. I didn't shop there . . . occasionally they'd have something I needed that would be on sale - a tad lower than Wally World - and I'd still blow them off. They suck.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):
Not every job can (or should) be a family supporting job.

True.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):
Would you want to pay $8 for a burger at McDonalds so every kid flipping burgers could make $20/hour?

No.

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 16):
Why is WM different?

Because it is above McDonald's. McD's is a place that should only appeal to kids and the occasional adult who has no other choice due to tight time constraints.

Wal*Mart is a place that sells household goods that most all of us need at somke point or another. It is, despite being somewhat juvenile in it's conception, a place where mainly adults shop. Most of the employees I see at Wal*Mart (and I've only been in two of them - one in Avon, MA after a fuel spill on their property that I was Project Manager for, and another somewhere on a road trip a few years back (was drunk, can't remember where except that it was in CT somewhere, I think)) are not kids like at McDonald's, although there are a few.

There are, though, many (apparent) family supporters who allegedly do not have health insurance from Wal*Mart (correct me if I am wrong). That in and of itself, is enough for me to pledge that I will never support a company such as that. I'll gladly pay triple at a store that does provide health insurance for their employees.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:10 pm

Here's what I don't get: At Christmas, among other negative rumblings, I had to hear from my uber-liberal dad about the evils of Wal-Mart. Okay, fine, I really don't care if anyone in my family likes Wal-Mart or not...

...except that HE SHOPS THERE!!! If you think the store is a festering blister on society, guess what? You're only CONTRIBUTING to their existence by purchasing goods there.

I ask why. "Well, because I can buy 8 gallons of such and such for $1.23 less than what it costs at the grocery store."

Jeez. I don't even try to understand the logic anymore.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15265
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:13 pm

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 29):
A lot of people wanted segregation and Apartheid too, but didn't mean it was right

Oh for f&#k's sake, you can choose NOT to shop at Walmart, you can choose NOT to work there, you can choose NOT to sell your products there. You can also choose NOT to enlist in the army but that's a whole 'nother thread but is in keeping with this nonsense.

Quoting DaddiesSecret (Reply 33):
People [consumers] in the western world really need to grow up a little and realise that for pretty much every price drop in a supermarket someone somewhere will suffer for it

What if someone is gaining more by being able to feed a family thanks to those price drops? You're only looking at one side of the equation. Do you buy the most expensive airline ticket online? Because when you buy anything but a full Y fare you are hurting me.  

[Edited 2005-12-29 05:14:35]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15265
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:16 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 39):
Because it is above McDonald's. McD's is a place that should only appeal to kids and the occasional adult who has no other choice due to tight time constraints.

Eh? McD's get that distinction because why?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
Do you buy the most expensive airline ticket online? Because when you buy anything but a full Y fare you are hurting me.

You do bring up a good point about the "Wal-Martization" of the airline industry. I don't see any recreational a-netters complaining about $29 fares to Orlando.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 36):
Financial Aid to any US college, junior college, trade school or whatever is readily available.

...through Wal-Mart, no less.

http://www.walmartfoundation.org/wms...ucation.jsp?oid=-10260&coid=-10299

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 39):
There are, though, many (apparent) family supporters who allegedly do not have health insurance from Wal*Mart (correct me if I am wrong).

Wal-Mart does offer a health plan to associates to cover major medical expenses. I don't know if there is a requirement on the number of hours you have to work to be able to take part in the health plan.

Actually, it is rare for a retail company to provide health insurance for employees unless they work "full time." There are progressive companies like Starbucks that do so for part timers, but it is an exception. In my years of working part time for retailers I was NEVER offered health insurance. So, your list of companies to avoid will be fairly long.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:45 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
As for working at Walmart in a dead end job, you have the option of going to college, a community college, a trade school, the military, etc. to better your life. America is all about choices and options to better your lives - especially for young people.

Amen. Well said, Jay.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:38 pm

Overall,good.I think WMT(NYSE), is
getting bad rap.The media is pro-labor
unions,anyway.There was a radio program,
a couple of months ago call
"The Business Hour",in which callers seem to
agree.

My reasons:
It keeps cost of goods down.

Keeps labor in check.

If gives people better economic choices or
better buying power.

It gives the poor, a chance at a better standard
of living.

There have always been big discount houses.
Remember Zody's out here in the West Coast.

China is not an issue anymore.Every retailer,including me,
has "Made In China" products.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 36):

Around 25 000 children will die today in the 3rd world due to hunger - those are people in need. Your patriarchal class warfare version of what constitutes need is insulting if it involves people earning $8-10/hour Wal Mart wages and serves mainly to illustrate your resentment at Wal Mart's success.

Are you kidding? You must be. Many, many work in Wal-Mart factories. I buy about 90% of my clothes from Patagonia now. Not because of their environmental practices, but their labor practices.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 40):

...except that HE SHOPS THERE!!! If you think the store is a festering blister on society, guess what? You're only CONTRIBUTING to their existence by purchasing goods there.

Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
What if someone is gaining more by being able to feed a family thanks to those price drops? You're only looking at one side of the equation. Do you buy the most expensive airline ticket online? Because when you buy anything but a full Y fare you are hurting me.

Gate agents and Wal-Mart clerks, for the most part, have the same degree - high school diploma. One gets paid $9.50 an hour, the other is paid $20.00 an hour with affordable health and travel benefits. Being a flight attendant requires no college degree (sorry, that BA in Southeastern Asian Studies does not make you better at CPR or inflating escape chutes) are paid around $42.00 an hour at the top of the scale. I haven't been in a Wal-Mart for about eight months, but those Wal-Mart employees are much friendlier than a lot of those Sky Nazis.

AAndrew
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Thread starter):
Wal-Mart is shutting down Main Street USA.

That's the only thing that bothers me... I like smaller shops. It's nice to walk down a street full of different shops with their own distinct "style."

That and seeing a big, ugly and blue "Wal-Mart" sign everywhere you go.

But otherwise, I have no problem with it. I'm sure it means more stable jobs for each of the store's managers, as well as more opportunities to rise up in management and better your life. I have two friends that work part-time and get paid more than they did in their last job.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-12-29 07:51:44]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:32 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 47):
Gate agents and Wal-Mart clerks, for the most part, have the same degree - high school diploma. One gets paid $9.50 an hour, the other is paid $20.00 an hour with affordable health and travel benefits. Being a flight attendant requires no college degree (sorry, that BA in Southeastern Asian Studies does not make you better at CPR or inflating escape chutes) are paid around $42.00 an hour at the top of the scale. I haven't been in a Wal-Mart for about eight months, but those Wal-Mart employees are much friendlier than a lot of those Sky Nazis.

Hmmm... and the alternative, a small shop, would afford all those benefits, right?

FAs work in a stressful environment, spend extended periods of time away from their families (as well as pilots), they need special training (including "updates" every so often). F/As do pay a price for their salary that a Wal-Mart Clerk doesn't.

It's about how much the service you're providing is worth, not how much the person is worth.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-12-29 07:43:49]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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