cosec59
Posts: 2618
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Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:31 am

Charles Kennedy ( for those not in the UK he is the leader of the 3rd largest political party here) has finally admitted he has an alcohol problem and is to seek help.
This has sparked a leadership election in which Mr Kennedy will stand.
Has he done the right thing?
I think he has and his admission can only strenghten his image and help him re gain his stature.

Good luck to him in his rehabilitation
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
9VSPO
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
This has sparked a leadership election in which Mr Kennedy will stand

That depends on how many drinks he's had.  Wink
 
whitehatter
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
Charles Kennedy ( for those not in the UK he is the leader of the 3rd largest political party here) has finally admitted he has an alcohol problem and is to seek help.

I went to university with Kennedy (he's a few years older than me) and he was a terrible piss-artist then.

Twenty five years later, he's still hard at it. God alone knows what state his liver is in.

Quoting Cosec59 (Thread starter):
This has sparked a leadership election in which Mr Kennedy will stand.

he should stand aside and get his own life in order first.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
cosec59
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 1):
That depends on how many drinks he's had.

He has stated he has not had a drink in 2 months.
His decision to speak out shows a great deal of courage especially as a man so much in the public eye
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
cosec59
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 2):
he should stand aside and get his own life in order first.

good comment. I hope he does mange to get his life back in order
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
9VSPO
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:43 am

 
Banco
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:49 am

Right. So all those questions over all those years about his drinking were answered with complete lies then, were they?

Both Kennedy himself, AND the Lib Dems in general denied that he had a drink problem time after time after time. Now we hear that he's had this problem for some considerable time.

Good on him for coming out and admitting it. But it might have been better if they hadn't been lying about it for quite so long.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
cosec59
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 6):
Both Kennedy himself, AND the Lib Dems in general denied that he had a drink problem time after time after time.

But doesn't everyone in his situation?
I have employed a recovering alcoholic and he is excellent at his job.
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
User avatar
NWOrientDC10
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:55 am

Speaking for myself, I'll put my trust in a flawed leader who admits his mistakes rather than these fake, "perfect" things we have here in the States

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem
 
Banco
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 7):
But doesn't everyone in his situation?

Sure. But we're talking about a person who runs for political office. Isn't trust the very central issue? "Over the last 18 months" he said. He's been asked the question in that time - and denied it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
cosec59
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
He's been asked the question in that time - and denied it.

Media pressure i guess. But as NWOrientDC10 says, at least he has shown himself to be human and not a cliche as the other 2 leaders
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
GDB
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:12 am

Problem is, he sort help 18 months ago, (after much heavy criticism about not turning up for a budget debate, his sweating, uncertain performance at a Lib Dem spring conference weeks later).
So he's been telling porkies for all this time.
Only admitting it now after being confronted by evidence he has this problem.
Understandable perhaps, from a purely personal perspective.
But a bit unacceptable to try and lead, including during a general election, while battling his illness.

Though he often cites gaining seats last year, the Lib Dems had a great opportunity in the election, Iraq had made Labour very unpopular with a lot of people, who'd never vote Tory.
The Tories were not much better off, hence their rather desperate election campaign, with it's often, in the greater scheme of things, petty obsessions.

So the Lib Dems did not do as well as expected, the 'decapitation' effort (forewarned to their opponents), against senior Tories in marginal seats, failed.
Remember his highly embarrassing, mumbling, clueless performance when asked about his policies? At the time he said it was tiredness at having a newborn first child, everyone now will think he had in fact been 'wetting the baby's head' too much.

Since the election there has been no leadership from him, now the Cameron threat of (belatedly) re-positioning the Tories radically, has made many Lib Dem MP's fear for their seats.

Nothing personal against Kennedy, I wish him well, he seems a nice bloke, but he has always been unsuited as a major party leader.
He was perhaps chosen as an antidote to the energetic Paddy Ashdown, at heart the Lib Dems are a sleepy lot, so 'chatshow Charlie' seemed a good choice.
Unencumbered as they are by ever being in government since the WW1 period.

They are also a very opportunistic bunch, if your house looks prosperous, the line from a Lib Dem canvasser will tow a moderate line, very centre ground.
On a housing estate, they'll out Labour Old Labour.
An election anecdote from last year had a Lib Dem canvasser talking to a voter, then the voter produced a recent Lib Dem document that contradicted everying the Canvasser had just said, he's misjudged the sort of home/likely voter political affiliation.
The Lib Dem swore and trooped off.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:17 am

When you see how big a thing it is for people to admit being an alcoholic, you have to applaud someone that admits it in front of the whole nation!
 
cosec59
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 12):
you have to applaud someone that admits it in front of the whole nation!

 yes   checkmark   checkmark 
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 8):
Speaking for myself, I'll put my trust in a flawed leader who admits his mistakes rather than these fake, "perfect" things we have here in the States

Yeah... the dude, like all alcoholics, is weak-- but at least he can admit it.

Never a cause for blame with our current administration, it's disgusting.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Banco
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 10):
at least he has shown himself to be human and not a cliche as the other 2 leaders

You have to be slightly careful about that. When David Cameron started talking about the NHS yesterday (the first time he's really gone into battle over a policy matter), a lot of people dismissed it as just another Tory lying through his teeth. But Cameron has a seriously ill son, and has spent a damn sight more time in hospitals than most of us.

Quoting GDB (Reply 11):
Understandable perhaps, from a purely personal perspective.
But a bit unacceptable to try and lead, including during a general election, while battling his illness.

Exactly so. On a personal level, entirely understandable. But look at it this way, had there been a shock result (however unlikely it was) you could now have had a Prime Minister, or a Cabinet minister if there'd been a hung Parliament, coming out and admitting a drink problem having denied it all this time. That's the problem.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
skidmarks
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:38 am

Can't see the problem really. The guy has held the job down with no real after effects. Lying about it? Well, I would like to bet that no-one on here would say a word until they had to, if they were in a similar position.

As for undermining his integrity, thats a crock of crap. ALL politicians lie, it's in the blood (along with the alcohol and other suspicious substances) and for anyone to expect a politician of ANY party to openly come out and admit something like that until he had to, or the press (scum) forced his hand, is delusioned.

As NWOrientDC10 said, I would rather trust a politician that admitted he'd lied than one that insisted he was squeaky clean whatever happened.

Not that I like politicians much. Especially those across the water in the UK. Now, in the IOM, we KNOW our politicians are stupid Big grin

Human beings are fallible. We just expect politicians to be perfect - which is NEVER going to happen!

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12504
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:49 am

The current President Bush admitted to having a serious problem with alcohol a number of years ago after a bad experience and hasn't drank since then. Maybe he killed off a few critical brain cells that he needs now.
There have been a number of politicans whom had alcohol problems, but were still highly respected and sound leaders. Still, if the problems become public (as apparently with Mr. C. Kennedy's case), and you lie out of a natural human trait of denial for a long time, it does hurt your trust. Maybe in this man's case his doctor gave him a warning of how much his drinking was hurting his health, hurting others and will limit his ability to go for the position he wants. Let's hope he sticks with it.
 
GDB
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:31 am

C'mon Skidmarks, these suspicions about Kennedy did not appear from nowhere.
How many hopeless, televised, attempts to fail to understand your own policies, absences from important Parliamentary debates (unlike a PM, he has not got matters of state, often abroad, to attend to), hopeless performances in front of his own party at a conference, do you need?
General lengthy lacklustre spells too?

It's British politics worst kept secret, which he lied about many, many times, while presuming to be able to lead a party at a critical time for them.

It is sad, but (even by Lib Dem standards), he was promoted way beyond his ability.
Maybe that helped cause, or add to, his very real illness.

He's a nice guy I'm sure, but while I don't see myself as paranoid, loathe what the likes of the Daily Mail stand for, but if by some chance, Kennedy had become PM, I'd fear for this country.
He just has not got what it takes, I'm sure he is a good MP for his constituents when he is well, but that was always his limit.
 
cosec59
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:59 am

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
Kennedy had become PM, I'd fear for this country.

A much better choice than Cameron though
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
It's British politics worst kept secret, which he lied about many, many times, while presuming to be able to lead a party at a critical time for them.

Even more than that, he forced a number of journalists into very public retractions when they alleged he had a drinking problem. Jeremy Paxman for one was hauled over the coals for daring to suggest it might be an issue.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
9VSPO
Posts: 4187
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 9:03 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:09 am

He will be gone by next week. Time to get down to Ladbrokes I think!  Wink
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 14):
Yeah... the dude, like all alcoholics, is weak-- but at least he can admit it.

Weak in what way?

The only weak alcoholic is the one who doesn't admit his problem and seek treatment.

I'm a recovering alcoholic. There are others on a.net. More than you may think! Are you calling us all weak?

Mark

[Edited 2006-01-06 18:27:50]
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
9VSPO
Posts: 4187
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 9:03 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
The only weak alcoholic is the one who doesn't admit his problem and seek treatment.

True, and it does take guts to admit it and seek help.

But Charles Kennedy is the leader of a political party and over half the party members today have said they want him to quit.
 
Banco
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:14 am

He's finished.

Even a number of those who have previously backed him are coming out now and going through the damning with faint praise motions.

Of course, if the Tories manage to maintain their recent resurgence, the Lib Dems are going to get horribly squeezed again, and if that does happen, a number of Lib Dems might look back in a few years and wonder how they managed to get rid of their most successful leader since Lloyd George.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:09 am

[quote=GDB,reply=11]So the Lib Dems did not do as well as expected, the 'decapitation' effort (forewarned to their opponents), against senior Tories in marginal seats, failed.[/quote

This is the real strike against him. Everything pointed to huge Lib Dem gains in the last elections, and there is just no way around the fact that they squandered that chance.

I don't know if Kennedy's drinking was a direct cause of this, but it couldn't have helped. Perhaps one of the 12 steps will be a big mea culpa at the next party conference.

I hope he does well in recovery.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
Banco
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 25):
Everything pointed to huge Lib Dem gains in the last elections, and there is just no way around the fact that they squandered that chance.

I'm not too sure it did, really. It's what the Lib Dems themseves said they were going for, but given the way the electoral system works, I always thought it unlikely they'd do much more than they did. the trouble with them is that they are everyone's tactical vote, and the genuine support fro them is soft, to say the least. Displacing the Conservatives at the last election always seemed an impossible dream.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
GSM763
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:51 am

As said above the electoral system doesn't help. If I remember correctly according to an article in the independent (a left leaning newspaper) if we had a system where MPs were chosen according to a party's percentage of the vote the Lib Dems would have got about twice as many seats, Labour about half their number of seats and the Conservatives about 1 and a half times their number of seats. The UK has a voting system that doesn't favour small parties
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
Are you calling us all weak?

Yes.

....but,
that does not however mean you shouldn't be lauded for (eventually) having the courage/strength/etc to retake your life from the situation you allowed yourself to get into. Praiseworthy indeed.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MEA-707
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:18 am

Margaret Thatcher has been known to drink heavily during office, think of one or two bottles of whisky a night as well, which might be the reason she seems to suffer from Korzakoff syndroms now. Any UK people have an idea if everybody knew back in the 1980s it would be labeled an 'alcohol problem' if she apperently functioned well? Is this Charles Kennedy only blamed because he didn't perform as well as he should? Would he be kept if his leadership was a huge success?
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
GDB
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RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:57 am

Thatcher liked a whisky late at night, after a long day.
She was a hard working, driven person, no matter what you thought of her.

Kennedy supporters keep bring up Churchill.
Oh please, another driven person, with huge life experience, including combat in Africa, serving penance in the WW1 trenches after Gallipoli.
He lived effectively several lives in one, an alcoholic simply could not do that.

Churchill was one of those lucky people, with the constitution of an ox.
Not only did he drink plenty of water all the time, plenty of food, he could hold his drink, if he couldn't, he not have lasted long as a wartime PM, (he was not an absolute ruler, he could have been replaced).
He lived to a very advanced age, despite having a lifestyle in some respects, that would horrify any modern doctor.

Kennedy on the other hand, straight from education to a MP aged just 23, in 1983.
Naturally a somewhat indolent person anyway, not driven.
He clearly cannot hold down his drink and still function as the leader of a peacetime, 3rd party.

This has been a long time coming, he was forced into an announcement because the media (who've known about this for a long time, just like many of his MP's), were about to expose him.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 29):
Margaret Thatcher has been known to drink heavily during office

that explains alot.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
GDB
Posts: 12681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:20 am

I could not stand Maggie, but where is the proof (no pun intended).
I don't call a Whiskey after work being alcoholic.
The idea that a serving PM, with the media watching every move, could both function as PM and be a heavy drinker, is nonsense, maybe in the past, not now.
(Eden was a heavy drinker, mixed with prescription drugs, he didn't last long in the much more deferencial 1950's).

George Brown, a 1960's Labour 'big beast' , liked a drink too much, that's why despite once being a serious contender for leader, he never got close.
He resigned as a minister in 1968, actually when pissed and maudlin, he often offered to resign, after one embarrassment too many, it was accepted.
Much to Brown's horror next time he was sober.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting GSM763 (Reply 27):
If I remember correctly according to an article in the independent (a left leaning newspaper) if we had a system where MPs were chosen according to a party's percentage of the vote the Lib Dems would have got about twice as many seats, Labour about half their number of seats and the Conservatives about 1 and a half times their number of seats. The UK has a voting system that doesn't favour small parties

True enough, but it isn't quite as dramatic as that, and it's what the Lib Dems themselves say, but what they never mention is that people vote according to the system. So, when Labour have no chance of winning a seat, many of their supporters switch to the Lib Dems to oust the Tory, and vice versa where Labour hold it. The volume of votes the Lib Dems pick up across the country is totally out of proportion with the actual level of support. That's why they have so many second places in so many constituencies.

Whilst third parties are certainly squeezed in First past the post systems, the contradiction is that they also pick up large numbers of protest votes. The Lib Dems don't want the system changed because it's unfair, they want the system changed because they know they'd hold the balance of power.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
9VSPO
Posts: 4187
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 9:03 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:13 am

That's it folks. He's gone.  crying 
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:16 am

Yup, just resigned  Sad




..
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
GSM763
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:35 am

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:18 am

Speech is now over.  Angry
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 35):
Yup, just resigned

Why are you sad?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
andz
Posts: 7628
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:08 pm

Why is Menzies Campbell referred to as "Ming"?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
GDB
Posts: 12681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Charles Kennedy Admits Alcohol Problem

Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:36 am

Apparently it's short for 'Menzies'.

Though his failure to support Kennedy (after Charlie lied once too often about his condition and competence), had him dubbed 'Ming the Merciless'.

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