Banco
Topic Author
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1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:36 am

http://www.thenewstribune.com/health/story/5446907p-4917361c.html

That's a terrifying prospect.  Wow!

And whilst it might be more extreme in the US than elsewhere, it's not unreasonable to assume that the rise in diabetes is mirrored elsewhere to at least some extent.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Go3Team
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:22 am

Quote:
“I will go out on a limb,” said Dr. Thomas Frieden, commissioner of the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, “and say, 20 years from now people will look back and say: ‘What were they thinking? They’re in the middle of an epidemic and kids are watching 20,000 hours of commercials for junk food.’”

If people can be responsible for their kids health, most cases can be prevented. As someone who has recently been diagnosed as diabetic, my Dr has stated that it "could" be reversed, but would take a lot of hard work.
Yay Pudding!
 
erikwilliam
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
That's a terrifying prospect.

Given the amount of fat parents and people in the USA, I´m nowhere near surprised by this.
It sure is a sad sad thing, but, last time I was in the US, in CLE, I went to Burguer King and a couple was in front of me in line, and they were both really fat, and they ordered a considerable meal, plus the gigantic Refil cup....so, no surprise at all.

Sad, no doubts.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
eilennaei
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:40 am

Survival of the slimmest.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
And whilst it might be more extreme in the US than elsewhere, it's not unreasonable to assume that the rise in diabetes is mirrored elsewhere to at least some extent.

you are so right , it is easy to look at this and think it only affects the US , but in fact the entire western world is facing an epidemic of child obesity , not only are portions getting bigger ( and more dubious nutritionally ) , but children are less active - the awful truth is that the developed world is looking for the first time at a situation where the life expectancy of the next generation will be lower than for the current generation. While I am not a 'children' sort of person , I do find it very sad to see children condemned from an early age to a shortened lifespan ( and a reduced quality of life for the time they are here ) like many of us , I have from time to time struggled with my weight , what chance to children who grow up obese stand of breaking out of the trap their parents have let them fall in to from an early age ?
 
Dougloid
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:58 am

Ain't that the truth.

I live down the street from a Mickey Dees. It's like gross porker central.

However, folks who go there are into tanking up for a low price, not into good eating. They're also too unimaginative to feed themselves and their families in ways that are healthy, economical, and palatable.

What you're looking at is the ultimate triumph of stupidity and laziness. It's also a part of the deconstruction of family life that's been going on for the last fifty years.

When I was a young pup, mother stayed at home as most mothers did in those days. They were ladies of leisure although raising kids was tough work at times. My old man almost never worked overtime, and very rarely on Saturdays. Mother was a competent cook, and she actually enjoyed the idea of laying out a good table for a raft of appreciative folks who would never fail to praise her accomplishments to whoever would listen. We had a black dial telephone that cost $6 a month, and my old man drove a 1960 mercury.
We never went to the one McDonalds that was within 30 miles of the house, and eating out was considered to be something of a treat.

However, that was then, this is now, and bad nutrition is the price of progress we are told.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
searpqx
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:05 am

I honestly believe the number one culprit is technology, followed closely by commercially propogated bad nutrition, and sealed by parents to busy/disconnected to control what their children are doing. With the advent of first tv, then video games and now computers, there is no need for a child to ever get up off their butt and go do things. Children are naturally inquisitive and innate explorers, and if the technology wasn't available in the home, they would head outdoors to explore.

As a child we lived too far from town to receive TV, and this was long before the days of computers, so my entertainment options were books (which I read voraciously) or going outside and occupying myself. I was downright skinny all the way into my 30s, but as I've aged, plus the easy entertainment of TV and computer, I find myself struggling with my weight now. Put a child in the same situation, their is no need for them to go outside, and not enough parents are taking the time to make them.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
pilotsmoe
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 3):
Survival of the slimmest.

While this country has the highest incidence of type 2 Diabetes, Finland has the highest incidence of Type 1 diabetes, followed by the scandinavian countries. Type one is caused by autoimmune problems, though. Different beast. I
 
usnseallt82
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Can't say I'm surprised at all. Absolutely pathetic how many fat asses we have in this country right now. The problem is that their kids can't think that far ahead and therefore look to their parents for nutritional guidance. But, when mommy and daddy are slurping down milkshakes and inhaling Big Mac's, what the hell else are they supposed to do?

Overall, its just sad.
Crye me a river
 
pilotsmoe
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabete

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 8):
The problem is that their kids can't think that far ahead and therefore look to their parents for nutritional guidance

True, I seen a fat lady yesterday in the supermarket buying her fat kids 5 bags of doritos. I thought it was a joke at first. I like the occasional big mac, though good  tongue  but not every day
 
ltbewr
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:38 am

Another issue as to the 'lazyness' of children today is that today's parents are overprotective, or live in situations where the fear too much their children being kidnapped, assulted or otherwise hurt, even in the front yard. You fear about your kid walking to school, or riding a bike and getting hit by an inattentive driver. So we keep them indoors umbilically attached to video games or tv. What opportunities for excercise are often overorganized sports programs that really don't help many less coordinated kids. Many parents are too lazy or ignorant about proper nutrition. I would note that even when I was a kid, while I rarely ate at 'fast food' resturants, my mom used a lot of butter, sugar, fat in her cooking and baking (and still does), but I did a lot of walking or bike riding to offset that.
 
AMS
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:26 pm

The main problem here in the U.S is that there are way too many Junk Food Restaurants and the Price is cheap and tasty.Health foods are way too expensive. You really have to pay lots of money to eat healthy over Here.

Regards,
AMS
 
Brendan03
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:30 pm

Yeah, Eating Healthy is expensive and it takes much more time to prepare stuff... I tried a salad diet for a while and it got quite boring how long it takes
Coolier than thou.
 
L-188
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting AMS (Reply 11):
The main problem here in the U.S is that there are way too many Junk Food Restaurants and the Price is cheap and tasty

Close, I would blame fast food in the freezer section of the store.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
Another issue as to the 'lazyness' of children today is that today's parents are overprotective, or live in situations where the fear too much their children being kidnapped, assulted or otherwise hurt, even in the front yard. You fear about your kid walking to school, or riding a bike and getting hit by an inattentive driver. So we keep them indoors umbilically attached to video games or tv.

Agreed, there is a problem here.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 12):
Yeah, Eating Healthy is expensive and it takes much more time to prepare stuff... I tried a salad diet for a while and it got quite boring how long it takes

of course it was boring , a salad diet is no more balanced nutrition than a junk food one . The good news is that while eating in a more healthy manner takes organisation it does not necessarily take much more time

Quoting AMS (Reply 11):
The main problem here in the U.S is that there are way too many Junk Food Restaurants and the Price is cheap and tasty.Health foods are way too expensive. You really have to pay lots of money to eat healthy over Here.

yes , it is cheap because it contains almost nothing that your body needs - but would you put water into your cars gas tank because it was cheaper than petrol ? Once you organise yourself into more healthy eating patterns you become more 'streamlined' in your grocery shopping as well as in your outline ... because you buy only what your body needs and not lots of crap it is not necessarily much more expensive ( and it is a lot quicker than 'browser' shopping so you free up time to do something more enjoyable ... unless of course you really enjoy grocery shopping ) ... or don't you think that you are worth looking after

I recommend a read of the "Body for Life" book - it does take some organisation and discipline to start , but then it becomes a habit rather than a chore .... even if you eventually decide that you don't want to commit to doing it properly it will still be an improvement and give you an idea on how simple ( and interesting ) good nutrition can actually be .
 
NYCFlyGuy
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:37 pm

Quoting Pilotsmoe (Reply 7):
Finland has the highest incidence of Type 1 diabetes, followed by the Scandinavian countries. Type one is caused by autoimmune problems, though. Different beast.

This is true, Scandinavians have elevated risk for Type 1, Insulin dependent Diabetes. I am type 1 Diabetic. Just recently started got serious about controlling things, the long term effects are not cool.
 
aaden
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:06 pm

This is a sad day indeed. America just has to have it's sugar, salt ,and fat.
I'm guilty to but this is becoming a national concern. 33% of us are going to be carrying around insulin.
 worried 
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:04 pm

Being really overwieght is a problem. People who are overwieght know this is a problem. Yet they do nothing about it, and in many cases encourage (wether or not they purposly do it they do do it) their kids to over eat and/or not get enough excersize, causing them to be overweight right from the start. I think thats sad and should not be acceptable. The world as a whole and especially North America really needs to do something about this problem now, because its only going to get bigger if we don't.

It shouldn't be a struggle to not gain wieght, because it isn't. Eat till you've had enough, then stop. Don't take/buy more than you need. Just do some basic excersize, like walk or bike to places you are going to if they are close enough instead of drive. If you can't fit in this kind of thing into your schedule, then somethings wrong there. It's fine to do extra stuff here and there, but if you're constantly busy then please don't take on as much stuff. By leaving more free/extra time in your schedule you are making things easier for yourself, giving you more time to enjoy life while you still can and making it that much easier to stay healthy. Your doing yourself a favour in the long run.




All the best
CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
eilennaei
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting Pilotsmoe (Reply 7):
While this country has the highest incidence of type 2 Diabetes, Finland has the highest incidence of Type 1 diabetes, followed by the scandinavian countries. Type one is caused by autoimmune problems, though. Different beast. I

That's correct, some seemingly unrelated areas like Sardinia are high-incidence areas as well for the type 1. It's an autoimmune disease where the body self-destroys the insulin-producing cells. The symptoms become evident only when most of the cells have died. Links with certain HLA genotypes have been established. However, genetic inheritance is not the only cause, there's been a five-fold increase in the incidence of diabetes since the early fifties of type 1 in Finland. A large follow-up study is going on, and as a matter of fact, our toddler is taking part in it as she has been determined genetically predisposed to it. (The parents and grandparents are/were all free from the disease).

Type 2 is I suppose what the original article was concerned with. This disease is not a lack of insulin, but a resistance to it for reasons which are multi-factor and not entirely clear. In Finland type 2 patients outnumber type 1 patients by about 4 to 1. Whereas most type 1 patients become diabetic before their 18th birthday, traditionally children and teenagers have been virtually free from type 2. This has now been rapidly changing, presumably with child obesity. I recently talked to a doctor who works for the Finnish Diabetes Association and he said the fatty liver syndrome may be a strong cause of some of the type 2 cases.

http://www.diabetes.fi/english/prevention/programme/index.html
http://docnews.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/2/1/23-c
 
lehpron
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Careful, in this case, the word in bold can imply a statistic can predict the future. Statistic egnerally do not report anything, they are usually numbers without relation until someone with a bias reads the data a certain way. A statistic can be used to report a trend, but it is, afterwall, the interpretation of the person reviewing the data. There is no one conclusion.

I certainly doubt future children will develop diabetes. I do, however, think if certain things are done during their upbringings that caused diabetes in children now, the chance of redundacy exists. But that is the case for every situation.

Statistics are not prophetic but people do use them that way.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
eilennaei
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:46 pm

Lehpron, you have an interesting notion of the science of statistics. A case of diabetes is a very solid "fact", not open to any "interpretation". If we see more of those cases each year, we have a trend. Successive observations on the trend will lead to a possibility to extrapolate the number of cases in a future time.
Simply: if nothing is done, today's 5-year olds will follow the 20-30-40-50 year olds of today and step on the "type 2 diabetic pipeline" just like the older ones are doing now. Even worse, the statistical trend says the pipeline will move even faster when today's kids are mature.

The "cure" is simple. The best way to prevent any diabetes is to act as if you already had a type 1 diabetes, and follow those patients' recommended diet and excercise habits.
 
lehpron
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 20):
A case of diabetes is a very solid "fact", not open to any "interpretation". If we see more of those cases each year, we have a trend.

Case in point, I wasn't talking about the actual case, there is no relationship between trend and cases unless interpreted that way. Say we have more and more cases, is it getting worse?

My point: Unless we figure out how each came about to having a new case, there is no point to tallying up every new case.

Look back at the title of the thread:

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

This is extremely misleading, I read it as, '1 in 3 American 5 yr olds will develop the disease'; say I read it wrong. Okay, what is it then? Titles are invitations to curiousity, when studies are done, they are still unrelated to anything until the studier related them. The trend is discovered by their interpretation of the data. Say the data shows that 1 in 3 of American 5 yr olds now have diabetes, what does this mean for future 5 yr olds? Nothing, unless they go through the exact same situations as the previous group. That is my point.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
eilennaei
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 21):
Case in point, I wasn't talking about the actual case, there is no relationship between trend and cases unless interpreted that way. Say we have more and more cases, is it getting worse?

People would normally feel more cases of diabetes is a bad thing, so I say yes.
More cases each year is a trend, less cases per year is a trend as well. You don't need any interpretation -- a simple spreadsheet model will draw you the trend on existing data!

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 21):
Say the data shows that 1 in 3 of American 5 yr olds now have diabetes, what does this mean for future 5 yr olds? Nothing, unless they go through the exact same situations as the previous group. That is my point.

Lehpron, please consider this. You see some dead squirrels on the road one day. The next day you see a bunch. You think: ok, so this means that there are more squirrels on the move now, or that more cars have been passing that day, or both. You can even count and remove the bodies every day and that will be a pure undisputed number. To evaluate the situation in the future, you will not, however, require that the squirrels be jumping onto the roads on the exact same locations as their hapless predecessors, or that the very same cars be driving on the road driven by the same people.

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 21):
My point: Unless we figure out how each came about to having a new case, there is no point to tallying up every new case.

That's right, and the sound medical science does work backwards from the cases to the reasons behind them. I see nothing special in it.
 
NIKV69
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
That's a terrifying prospect

Well we drink way too much soda, ingest too much sugar, white flour and starch. Over the long term and it is no surprise.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
whitehatter
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabete

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
If people can be responsible for their kids health, most cases can be prevented. As someone who has recently been diagnosed as diabetic, my Dr has stated that it "could" be reversed, but would take a lot of hard work.

Diabetes is controllable, not reversible. Especially the common Type 2 diabetes.

The trend in diabetes T2 is this. Greater numbers showing up, and what scares the shit out of everyone is the age factor. T2 was regarded as a disease of middle age, now kids in the USA and Europe as young as 11 (not a misprint) are showing up with T2.

It's wholly due to diet. A great number of people carry a predisposition to insulin resistance, whic is what T2 is. Many never got diagnosed or only do so later in life. Nowadays kids eat junk food exclusively which is full of either sugar or that poison HFCS, and the effect of a high sugar diet plus obesity hastens the onset of T2. It's been proven that the deep layers of fat in an obese patient increase insulin resistance, and that hastens other factors such as beta cell burnout.

The numbers are also skewed by better routine testing, but it only has the effect of showing up the undiagnosed people in greater numbers. And that's scary. But kids today eat cheap, refined carbohydrates to excess and it's that which starts their diabetes off towards becoming a full-blown symptomatic diabetic so much earlier.

Unfortunately that also means retinopathy, neuropathy and heart disease later in life to add to the mix. Sugar in the blood is a poison above certain levels, and a badly controlled diabetic can eventually become a blind cripple if they don't take responsibility for their diet and medication.

Try forcing that on a chubby kid with a McDonalds addition...
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
pilotsmoe
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 18):
. Whereas most type 1 patients become diabetic before their 18th birthday, traditionally children and teenagers have been virtually free from type 2.

True, I had type 1 since I was 7  Angry
 
lehpron
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 22):
Quoting Lehpron (Reply 21):
Say the data shows that 1 in 3 of American 5 yr olds now have diabetes, what does this mean for future 5 yr olds? Nothing, unless they go through the exact same situations as the previous group. That is my point.

Lehpron, please consider this. You see some dead squirrels on the road one day. The next day you see a bunch. You think: ok, so this means that there are more squirrels on the move now, or that more cars have been passing that day, or both. You can even count and remove the bodies every day and that will be a pure undisputed number. To evaluate the situation in the future, you will not, however, require that the squirrels be jumping onto the roads on the exact same locations as their hapless predecessors, or that the very same cars be driving on the road driven by the same people.

I mean that if say diabetes is genetic, then it will not matter what people eat or not eat or experience, etc. That said, in order for it to be genetic, something had to occur with such consistency that the body over generations developed its own path of evolution (so to speak), which a side effect may have resulted in this disease. To say, "1 in 3 to develop...etc" is random and does not specify who is at risk -- it can start a panic. Not everyone is at risk such that 1 in 3 will end up with it, statistics do not refer to the future. I do not like when people paraphase things like this thinking it is the same, no it's not.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
BN747
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:28 pm

All the comments re: Fat people and fat families are sad but very real and growing... and very sad. But unfortunately true and headed for worse.

In the book, Natural Cures They Don't Want You to Know About'... this is all explained how it occured and why it's gonna get worse! The title is just the drizzle before the storm.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
eilennaei
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RE: 1 In 3 American 5 Year Olds To Develop Diabetes

Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 26):
I mean that if say diabetes is genetic, then it will not matter what people eat or not eat or experience, etc

Natural selection has favoured people whose genetic properties have enabled them to retain as much energy as possible during famines. Looking at the situation now, never has so much energy been taken in by so many. The genetic asset has become a liability. If Nature does not limit your eating to a healthy level, you'll have limit it yourself.

As Lehron said, the type 2 is not a random killer. If you stay slim, your chances of becoming a type 2 diabetic will be slim as well. More and more people in the industrialised nations will be eating too much cheap and energy-rich food, that is the unfortunate trend. Where's the politician promoting higher food prices? Where's the ad agency turning down offers from a snack giant?

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